Driver who deliberately knocked cyclist from bike jailed for 16 months (+ video)

26 thoughts on “Driver who deliberately knocked cyclist from bike jailed for 16 months (+ video)”

1. Entirely deserved, and there

   Entirely deserved, and there is an argument that the punishment should have been much higher for what could be said to be attempted murder.

   Like the Bristol Post, the comments in the Gazettte are not for those of a nervous disposition.

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   • burtthebike wrote:

     …… for what could be said to be attempted murder…… 

     — burtthebike

     There is, I’m afraid, very little chance of proving to a jury that the driver’s intention was actually to kill.

      

      

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     • mike the bike wrote:

       …… for what could be said to be attempted murder…… 

       — mike the bike

       There is, I’m afraid, very little chance of proving to a jury that the driver’s intention was actually to kill.

        

        

       — burtthebike

        

       Just have to watch 24hrs in custody that was on Ch4 last night. Guy got beaten up outside a pub by a gang, went to his car, drove up to them (on the other side of the railings) gave them a mouthful, got a mouthful back, so reversed down the street, mounted the pavement and drove straight at them, missed the gang and got an innocent bystander. CPS refused attempted murder and charged him with GBH

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2. Should be a lifetime driving

   Should be a lifetime driving ban.

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3. What is a standard ABH
   What is a standard ABH sentence?

   Onto the point of intention, what do we suppose his intention was, tickling?

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4.  Watched 24 hrs in police

    Watched 24 hrs in Police Custody the other night

   Guy takes car and drives into a group of people who he had been fighting with, he badly injured one person the judge gave him 7 years for GBH with intent the police were trying to get him done for attempted murder the the CPS said no GBH, i cannot for the life of me see the difference between both crimes.

   Except the Law is a complete ass.

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   • djfleming22 wrote:

      Watched 24 hrs in Police Custody the other night

     Guy takes car and drives into a group of people who he had been fighting with, he badly injured one person the judge gave him 7 years for GBH with intent the police were trying to get him done for attempted murder the the CPS said no GBH, i cannot for the life of me see the difference between both crimes.

     Except the Law is a complete ass.

     — djfleming22

     As a criminal lawyer, I’ve writen about this before on this forum.

     The intent to be proved is different for both offences.

     For a section 18 cause grievous bodily harm offence, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to ‘do some grievous bodily harm’ to his or her victim.

     For an attempted murder charge, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to kill. That’s a higher standard of intent to prove than even for a murder charge, where the prosecution only have to prove an intention to cause grievous bodily (it’s the accused’s bad luck if his or her victim died because of the grievous bodily harm inflicted).

     That’s why attempted murder isn’t charged that often as it’s so notoriously difficult to convince juries of an intention to kill, as opposed to an intention to do some grievous bodily harm.

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     • TerreyHill wrote:

        Watched 24 hrs in Police Custody the other night

       Guy takes car and drives into a group of people who he had been fighting with, he badly injured one person the judge gave him 7 years for GBH with intent the police were trying to get him done for attempted murder the the CPS said no GBH, i cannot for the life of me see the difference between both crimes.

       Except the Law is a complete ass.

       — TerreyHill

       As a criminal lawyer, I’ve writen about this before on this forum.

       The intent to be proved is different for both offences. For a section 18 cause grievous bodily harm offence, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to ‘do some grievous bodily harm’ to his or her victim.

       For an attempted murder charge, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to kill. That’s a higher standard of intent to prove than even for a murder charge, where the prosecution only have to prove an intention to cause grievous bodily (it’s the accused’s bad luck if his or her victim died because of the grievous bodily harm inflicted).

       That’s why attempted murder isn’t charged that often as it’s so notoriously difficult to convince juries of an intention to kill, as opposed to an intention to do some grievous bodily harm.

       — djfleming22

        

       I thought the question was not about GBH vs attempted murder, as to why the driver in that “24 hours” case got a much longer sentence than the one in the story above?  7 years vs 16 months (and from the sound of it there was way more ‘provocation’ in the 7 years case than in the cyclist one.  Is it purely down to the concequences in terms of what injuries the person hit suffered?

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       • FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

          Watched 24 hrs in Police Custody the other night

         Guy takes car and drives into a group of people who he had been fighting with, he badly injured one person the judge gave him 7 years for GBH with intent the police were trying to get him done for attempted murder the the CPS said no GBH, i cannot for the life of me see the difference between both crimes.

         Except the Law is a complete ass.

         — FluffyKittenofTindalos

         As a criminal lawyer, I’ve writen about this before on this forum.

         The intent to be proved is different for both offences. For a section 18 cause grievous bodily harm offence, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to ‘do some grievous bodily harm’ to his or her victim.

         For an attempted murder charge, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to kill. That’s a higher standard of intent to prove than even for a murder charge, where the prosecution only have to prove an intention to cause grievous bodily (it’s the accused’s bad luck if his or her victim died because of the grievous bodily harm inflicted).

         That’s why attempted murder isn’t charged that often as it’s so notoriously difficult to convince juries of an intention to kill, as opposed to an intention to do some grievous bodily harm.

         — TerreyHill

          

         I thought the question was not about GBH vs attempted murder, as to why the driver in that “24 hours” case got a much longer sentence than the one in the story above?  7 years vs 16 months (and from the sound of it there was way more ‘provocation’ in the 7 years case than in the cyclist one.  Is it purely down to the concequences in terms of what injuries the person hit suffered?

         — djfleming22

         My post assumed djfleming22 couldn’t see the difference between GBH with intent and attempted murder.

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     • TerreyHill wrote:

        Watched 24 hrs in Police Custody the other night

       Guy takes car and drives into a group of people who he had been fighting with, he badly injured one person the judge gave him 7 years for GBH with intent the police were trying to get him done for attempted murder the the CPS said no GBH, i cannot for the life of me see the difference between both crimes.

       Except the Law is a complete ass.

       — TerreyHill

       As a criminal lawyer, I’ve writen about this before on this forum.

       The intent to be proved is different for both offences. For a section 18 cause grievous bodily harm offence, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to ‘do some grievous bodily harm’ to his or her victim.

       For an attempted murder charge, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to kill. That’s a higher standard of intent to prove than even for a murder charge, where the prosecution only have to prove an intention to cause grievous bodily (it’s the accused’s bad luck if his or her victim died because of the grievous bodily harm inflicted).

       That’s why attempted murder isn’t charged that often as it’s so notoriously difficult to convince juries of an intention to kill, as opposed to an intention to do some grievous bodily harm.

       — djfleming22

       I dont think thats what hes saying – hes saying why did the guy on 24hrs get 7 years and this case not the same – what is the difference between the two crimes?.  I watched the 24hrs and the crime is identical.  It makes no sence at all.

        

        

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     • TerreyHill wrote:

       As a criminal lawyer, I’ve writen about this before on this forum.

       The intent to be proved is different for both offences. For a section 18 cause grievous bodily harm offence, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to ‘do some grievous bodily harm’ to his or her victim.

       For an attempted murder charge, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to kill. That’s a higher standard of intent to prove than even for a murder charge, where the prosecution only have to prove an intention to cause grievous bodily (it’s the accused’s bad luck if his or her victim died because of the grievous bodily harm inflicted).

       That’s why attempted murder isn’t charged that often as it’s so notoriously difficult to convince juries of an intention to kill, as opposed to an intention to do some grievous bodily harm.

       — TerreyHill

       With your experience and knowledge, you are undoubtedly right.  However, I would assume that someone driving a motor vehicle at me intended to kill me, given that 1700 people a year are killed by motor vehicles, and I don’t see how the driver could claim that his intent was only to wound.  If you drive a car at someone, there is a high likelihood that they will be killed, and there is no way you could guarantee that they would only be injured.

       I realise that the law is arcane and not necessarily common sense or understanding, but I would argue that driving a car at someone is attempted murder.  He would almost certainly have been charged with that if the victim was a policeman.

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       • burtthebike wrote:

         As a criminal lawyer, I’ve writen about this before on this forum.

         The intent to be proved is different for both offences. For a section 18 cause grievous bodily harm offence, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to ‘do some grievous bodily harm’ to his or her victim.

         For an attempted murder charge, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to kill. That’s a higher standard of intent to prove than even for a murder charge, where the prosecution only have to prove an intention to cause grievous bodily (it’s the accused’s bad luck if his or her victim died because of the grievous bodily harm inflicted).

         That’s why attempted murder isn’t charged that often as it’s so notoriously difficult to convince juries of an intention to kill, as opposed to an intention to do some grievous bodily harm.

         — burtthebike

         With your experience and knowledge, you are undoubtedly right.  However, I would assume that someone driving a motor vehicle at me intended to kill me, given that 1700 people a year are killed by motor vehicles, and I don’t see how the driver could claim that his intent was only to wound.  If you drive a car at someone, there is a high likelihood that they will be killed, and there is no way you could guarantee that they would only be injured.

         I realise that the law is arcane and not necessarily common sense or understanding, but I would argue that driving a car at someone is attempted murder.  He would almost certainly have been charged with that if the victim was a policeman.

         — TerreyHill

         The guy on 24 hours was as thick as pigs poo. When psychologists explain that kids and young adults don’t understand consequences, he was an example of that.

         And yes if you go after an officer of the law you will get the book thrown at you, because however badly you behave you are never suppose to go after people whose job is to up hold the law.

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       • burtthebike wrote:

         As a criminal lawyer, I’ve writen about this before on this forum.

         The intent to be proved is different for both offences. For a section 18 cause grievous bodily harm offence, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to ‘do some grievous bodily harm’ to his or her victim.

         For an attempted murder charge, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to kill. That’s a higher standard of intent to prove than even for a murder charge, where the prosecution only have to prove an intention to cause grievous bodily (it’s the accused’s bad luck if his or her victim died because of the grievous bodily harm inflicted).

         That’s why attempted murder isn’t charged that often as it’s so notoriously difficult to convince juries of an intention to kill, as opposed to an intention to do some grievous bodily harm.

         — burtthebike

         With your experience and knowledge, you are undoubtedly right.  However, I would assume that someone driving a motor vehicle at me intended to kill me, given that 1700 people a year are killed by motor vehicles, and I don’t see how the driver could claim that his intent was only to wound.  If you drive a car at someone, there is a high likelihood that they will be killed, and there is no way you could guarantee that they would only be injured.

         I realise that the law is arcane and not necessarily common sense or understanding, but I would argue that driving a car at someone is attempted murder.  He would almost certainly have been charged with that if the victim was a policeman.

         — TerreyHill

         The guy on 24 hours was as thick as pigs poo. When psychologists explain that kids and young adults don’t understand consequences, he was an example of that.

         And yes if you go after an officer of the law you will get the book thrown at you, because however badly you behave you are never suppose to go after people whose job is to up hold the law.

         Log In or Register to post comments

       • burtthebike wrote:

         As a criminal lawyer, I’ve writen about this before on this forum.

         The intent to be proved is different for both offences. For a section 18 cause grievous bodily harm offence, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to ‘do some grievous bodily harm’ to his or her victim.

         For an attempted murder charge, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to kill. That’s a higher standard of intent to prove than even for a murder charge, where the prosecution only have to prove an intention to cause grievous bodily (it’s the accused’s bad luck if his or her victim died because of the grievous bodily harm inflicted).

         That’s why attempted murder isn’t charged that often as it’s so notoriously difficult to convince juries of an intention to kill, as opposed to an intention to do some grievous bodily harm.

         — burtthebike

         With your experience and knowledge, you are undoubtedly right.  However, I would assume that someone driving a motor vehicle at me intended to kill me, given that 1700 people a year are killed by motor vehicles, and I don’t see how the driver could claim that his intent was only to wound.  If you drive a car at someone, there is a high likelihood that they will be killed, and there is no way you could guarantee that they would only be injured.

         I realise that the law is arcane and not necessarily common sense or understanding, but I would argue that driving a car at someone is attempted murder.  He would almost certainly have been charged with that if the victim was a policeman.

         — TerreyHill

         The guy on 24 hours was as thick as pigs poo. When psychologists explain that kids and young adults don’t understand consequences, he was an example of that.

         And yes if you go after an officer of the law you will get the book thrown at you, because however badly you behave you are never suppose to go after people whose job is to up hold the law.

         Log In or Register to post comments

         • Bluebug wrote:

           As a criminal lawyer, I’ve writen about this before on this forum.

           The intent to be proved is different for both offences. For a section 18 cause grievous bodily harm offence, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to ‘do some grievous bodily harm’ to his or her victim.

           For an attempted murder charge, the prosecution is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused intended to kill. That’s a higher standard of intent to prove than even for a murder charge, where the prosecution only have to prove an intention to cause grievous bodily (it’s the accused’s bad luck if his or her victim died because of the grievous bodily harm inflicted).

           That’s why attempted murder isn’t charged that often as it’s so notoriously difficult to convince juries of an intention to kill, as opposed to an intention to do some grievous bodily harm.

           — Bluebug

           With your experience and knowledge, you are undoubtedly right.  However, I would assume that someone driving a motor vehicle at me intended to kill me, given that 1700 people a year are killed by motor vehicles, and I don’t see how the driver could claim that his intent was only to wound.  If you drive a car at someone, there is a high likelihood that they will be killed, and there is no way you could guarantee that they would only be injured.

           I realise that the law is arcane and not necessarily common sense or understanding, but I would argue that driving a car at someone is attempted murder.  He would almost certainly have been charged with that if the victim was a policeman.

           — burtthebike The guy on 24 hours was as thick as pigs poo. When psychologists explain that kids and young adults don’t understand consequences, he was an example of that. And yes if you go after an officer of the law you will get the book thrown at you, because however badly you behave you are never suppose to go after people whose job is to up hold the law.— TerreyHill

           Wonder how much he had to pay someone to pass his theory test?

5. Was going to mention about 24
   Was going to mention about 24 hours in Police Custody too and the fact the guy got 7 years for GBH with intent. I cannot see how this is any different? What need to happen to change the Police’s and CPS approaches and actually treat cyclists as humans?

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   • rowes wrote:

     Was going to mention about 24 hours in Police Custody too and the fact the guy got 7 years for GBH with intent. I cannot see how this is any different? What need to happen to change the Police’s and CPS approaches and actually treat cyclists as humans?

     — rowes

      

     In the 24 hours case the driver had been beaten up just previously by the group at which he aimed his car while in this case the cyclists were entirely without blame and yet are held in less regard.

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6. It seems like as cyclists we

   It seems like as cyclists we are regarded as having been “asking for it”.  Better I think to go out wearing a short skirt; judges have had enough training on that issue at least.

   FWIW, the only times (and it’s times, plural) where I saw attempted murder charged when a car was driven at someone, the victim was always a police officer.

   lord knows what the CPS would do if someone deliberately drove a car at a police officer who was riding a bike.  Enter an unresolvable quantum state of uncertainty, I suspect.

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7. Fucking hell   i am totally

   Fucking hell   i am totally gob smacked. If that wasnt attemted murder i dont know what is, Its a fucking war zone out there.look after your selfs folks.

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8. Sickening, both in the action
   Sickening, both in the action and the charging/sentencing.

   So someone who makes efforts to avoid a collision, warns, slows their (already slow) speed to that of a jog and swerves away gets lambasted nationally and 18months because the other party unfortunately died and was even partly at fault.
   Against 16months for someone with a lethal weapon deliberately and with malicious intent seriously harms another but fortunately and by luck not design, does not kill them.

   Right there is how fucked up our so called justice system is!

   Where is the outrage, where is the headlines of hate, if someone uses a knife or a sledgehammer to attack you intent on causung you serious harm you don’t get a tickle of 16 months and this cunt will be out in 8.
   What, another moments inattention or madness as one wanker wrote in the local rag.

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   • BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

     Sickening, both in the action and the charging/sentencing. So someone who makes efforts to avoid a collision, warns, slows their (already slow) speed to that of a jog and swerves away gets lambasted nationally and 18months because the other party unfortunately died and was even partly at fault. Against 16months for someone with a lethal weapon deliberately and with malicious intent seriously harms another but fortunately and by luck not design, does not kill them. Right there is how fucked up our so called justice system is! Where is the outrage, where is the headlines of hate, if someone uses a knife or a sledgehammer to attack you intent on causung you serious harm you don’t get a tickle of 16 months and this cunt will be out in 8. What, another moments inattention or madness as one wanker wrote in the local rag.

     — BehindTheBikesheds

     I don’t disagree with you, but I think we need to come up with a new word to describe shoehorning the Alliston case into a thread  

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9. Disgraceful behaviour and
   Disgraceful behaviour and sentence. Should be banned from driving for life.

   Would the sentence have been the same if he had deliberately mounted the curb to take down a pedestrian.

   Thank you to the dashboard camera behind otherwise the driver would have gotten away with it. Oh wait, he did anyway.

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10. I agree the sentence is too

    I agree the sentence is too lenient, but the worst part is that he hasn’t been given a lifetime (or at least 10 year) driving ban. Surely he’s proved he’s not capable of keeping a level head while driving if a slight hand gesture from a cyclist is enough to make him run someone down.

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11. [[[[[[[  The driver pleads

    [[[[[[[  The driver pleads guilty to “dangerous driving”…..when in fact he has not “driven” his car in any way we would understand the term “driving a car”.  He has instead turned that vehicle into a deadly weapon, and one wonders if he has actually received the maximum sentence available in a court of law.  Does anyone have the answer to that? 

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12. I’m pleased that Mr. Merret

    I’m pleased that Mr. Merret was even prosecuted. The police in many municipalities here in the US would not go as far as an investigation, even with video evidence. If there are only minor injuries sustain, then the police take a “no harm, no foul” approach, and will wait until another victim is seriously injured or killed by the same driver. 

    A sentence of 18 months in prison, plus loss driving privileges for 2 years 8 months is a harsh penalty relative to what he would have served where I live. Cyclists are second class citizens where I live. You’re far ahead of  us in the UK when it comes to legal remedies for cycling victims.

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13. [[[[[[ Not much more than a

    [[[[[[ Not much more than a slapped wrist,  for wielding his lethal weapon-on-wheels “WITH due care and attention” (sic)…..but I assume his accident-insurance will skyrocket when he comes out of nick, after serving about half his sentence?

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