Near Miss of the Day 87: Left-turning coach driver squeezes cyclist into fence

mercian59 wrote:

As the rider in this video I feel I need to respond to various issues raised in the comments, particularly those of joeinpoole in his late night rant. Firstly I am not an inexperienced cyclist, I have ridden road races, time trials, toured in several different countries and commuted year round, currently I mostly ride for leisure with then odd audax thrown in. While I have never kept an accurate record I estimate I have ridden 200,000 km plus. I have also held clean driving and motorcycle licenses for over 40 years. Secondly I am not a “You Tuber” or “Go Pro” rider who worsens avoidable situations. The camera (occasionally) records dangerous unavoidable situation when they occur but on my computer I have far more clips of the good experiences such as the descent of Bwlch y Groes to Bala recorded on a beautiful day during the Four Rivers Audax a few years ago and a fast summer evening ride with friends between Broseley and Bridgnorth. I have never shared recordings of bad driving on any social media or website before but felt that this one particularly because of the drivers apparent attitude would be the first. Thirdly regarding the incident itself. I feel that the camera lens makes the length of road in which I had time to respond appear to be more than it is, once you emerge from under the bridge it is only a short distance to the right hand bend. The coach was not in sight as I came from under the bridge such was its speed (and this was the real issue) going in to the bend, that as soon as I saw it I was aware of the potential consequences and began to brake, I was slowing from that point there was no chance of stopping earlier and “courteously” waving the driver through. The coach did stop, and I too could have stopped, right in front of it, but eased of my brakes to roll off the road which I was going to have to do anyway as I doubted the coach would reverse to make way for me! Had the driver been able to see the expressions on the faces of his passengers in the front seats as I did it might have reminded him of his responsibility to them as well as other road users. I hope that this clarifies some of the issues raised and discussed.

Thanks for the concise and clear explanation, it's a shame you have to defend yourself.

From my reckoning there is about 3 seconds between the bus first appearing and you stopping, and (if it was me) probably about 1 second between realising the bus was coming wide and stopping. Taking into account response times etc i don't think any other cyclist would have been able to do anything any different.

Deeferdonk wrote:

mercian59 wrote:

As the rider in this video I feel I need to respond to various issues raised in the comments, particularly those of joeinpoole in his late night rant. Firstly I am not an inexperienced cyclist, I have ridden road races, time trials, toured in several different countries and commuted year round, currently I mostly ride for leisure with then odd audax thrown in. While I have never kept an accurate record I estimate I have ridden 200,000 km plus. I have also held clean driving and motorcycle licenses for over 40 years. Secondly I am not a “You Tuber” or “Go Pro” rider who worsens avoidable situations. The camera (occasionally) records dangerous unavoidable situation when they occur but on my computer I have far more clips of the good experiences such as the descent of Bwlch y Groes to Bala recorded on a beautiful day during the Four Rivers Audax a few years ago and a fast summer evening ride with friends between Broseley and Bridgnorth. I have never shared recordings of bad driving on any social media or website before but felt that this one particularly because of the drivers apparent attitude would be the first. Thirdly regarding the incident itself. I feel that the camera lens makes the length of road in which I had time to respond appear to be more than it is, once you emerge from under the bridge it is only a short distance to the right hand bend. The coach was not in sight as I came from under the bridge such was its speed (and this was the real issue) going in to the bend, that as soon as I saw it I was aware of the potential consequences and began to brake, I was slowing from that point there was no chance of stopping earlier and “courteously” waving the driver through. The coach did stop, and I too could have stopped, right in front of it, but eased of my brakes to roll off the road which I was going to have to do anyway as I doubted the coach would reverse to make way for me! Had the driver been able to see the expressions on the faces of his passengers in the front seats as I did it might have reminded him of his responsibility to them as well as other road users. I hope that this clarifies some of the issues raised and discussed.

Thanks for the concise and clear explanation, it's a shame you have to defend yourself.

From my reckoning there is about 3 seconds between the bus first appearing and you stopping, and (if it was me) probably about 1 second between realising the bus was coming wide and stopping. Taking into account response times etc i don't think any other cyclist would have been able to do anything any different.

The "cyclist didn't slow down" argument is easily debunked. The bike covered the approximate 40 metre distance between the bridge exit, to standstill at the corner entrance, in 5 seconds, equating to an AVERAGE speed of about 17mph. This suggests slowing from 20-25mph to standstill in 5 seconds. Not a trivial deceleration, but perhaps not evident from merely viewing the video.  

Joeinpoole wrote:

I am utterly nonplussed and disappointed by the number of road.cc contibutors who have taken the side of the dickhead 'cyclist' in this video.

All he had to do to avert the situation entirely was to ease off the pedals  for a few seconds. He quite deliberately chose to ride as he did to create this supposed 'incident'. He rode himself into the fence for YouTube purposes.

If you ever wonder why motorists hate cyclists then this nonsense video is a good part of why they might.

Judging by most of the responses in defence of the cyclist I find myself starting to hate cyclists myself ... even though I am obviously am one.

Why do so many Road.cc contributors feel that common courtesy, generosity  and understanding of other road users are always trumped by their 'right' to ride as they choose to do so?

We always impore motorised vehicles to 'share the road' with us ... and yet it would seem that many road.cc contributors are unwilling to reciprocate.

That's all that happened here. The cyclist was a dickhead and caused the 'incident' by riding like an inexperienced wanker who couldn't recognise a potential issue from 300 yards away. 

Why do you expect the cyclist to show generosity toward and understanding of all other road users, and criticise them for not displaying these qualities, when the coach driver in the clip clearly showed none of that?

Joeinpoole wrote:

I am utterly nonplussed and disappointed by the number of road.cc contibutors who have taken the side of the dickhead 'cyclist' in this video.

All he had to do to avert the situation entirely was to ease off the pedals  for a few seconds. He quite deliberately chose to ride as he did to create this supposed 'incident'. He rode himself into the fence for YouTube purposes.

If you ever wonder why motorists hate cyclists then this nonsense video is a good part of why they might.

Judging by most of the responses in defence of the cyclist I find myself starting to hate cyclists myself ... even though I am obviously am one.

Why do so many Road.cc contributors feel that common courtesy, generosity  and understanding of other road users are always trumped by their 'right' to ride as they choose to do so?

We always impore motorised vehicles to 'share the road' with us ... and yet it would seem that many road.cc contributors are unwilling to reciprocate.

That's all that happened here. The cyclist was a dickhead and caused the 'incident' by riding like an inexperienced wanker who couldn't recognise a potential issue from 300 yards away. 

I am completely aghast and frustrated by the volume of road.cc members who have sided with arsehole "driver" in this video.

All that was required to completely avoid this issuewas to ease off the gas for a few seconds. Either neglegently or willfully, the driver forced the cyclist to carry out evasive manuvers.

Should one ever wonder why cyclists hate motorists then this clear example is a very good illustration of why they might.

Judging by the bulk of the responses to the drivers defense, I find myself starting to hate drivers myself... even though I am one too.

Why do an appreciable portion of motorised road users feel that common courtesy, generosity, attentiveness, understanding of the rules and regulations governing use of the roads and understanding of other road users are always trumped by their 'right' to drive as they choose to do so?

Drivers frequently demand that cyclists pay "road tax", use lights, don't listen to music and the most used advice; "get off the fucking road"... and yet it would seem that many road.cc contributors are unwilling to reciprocate.

That's all that happened here. The driver was an inattentive dickhead and caused the incident by driving, at worst, as if "might is right" or at best as a myopic twat who couldn't recognise a potential issue from 300 yards away. 

Fixed that for you.

SNAFU.

Nothing much happening with Brexit... Check.

No election on the horizon... Check.

No recent Islamist terror attacks... Check.

Number of posters on road.cc taking a driver-centric view of the world goes through the roof... Check.

Don't worry... Trump will tweet something that'll lure them back to the Daily Heil soon.

davel wrote:

SNAFU.

Nothing much happening with Brexit... Check.

No election on the horizon... Check.

No recent Islamist terror attacks... Check.

Number of posters on road.cc taking a driver-centric view of the world goes through the roof... Check.

Don't worry... Trump will tweet something that'll lure them back to the Daily Heil soon.

Trump and the NHS in one story. God bless America.

Crampy wrote:

All that was required to completely avoid this issuewas to ease off the gas for a few seconds. Either neglegently or willfully, the driver forced the cyclist to carry out evasive manuvers.

Just out of interest, at what point would easing off on the gas have resulted in the cyclist not having to take evasive action? As has been pointed out, the bus approached the turn already on the right hand side of the road, as that is the only way to get a bus round that particular corner. By the time the cyclist came into view, the front of the bus was already on the rhs, before the bend (6-7 second mark shows this). Had he eased off at that point, the cyclist would have had to pass him on the right, which is not a correct manoevre either, and in fact he may have been blocked by the back of the bus, which we can't see.

I encounter exactly this type of situation almost daily, sometimes as a driver, and sometimes as a cyclist, on the twisty mountain roads where I live in France. People back off, give each other room, no problem. Only the British (or English?) can make this so complicated.

Griff500 wrote:

Crampy wrote:

All that was required to completely avoid this issuewas to ease off the gas for a few seconds. Either neglegently or willfully, the driver forced the cyclist to carry out evasive manuvers.

Just out of interest, at what point would easing off on the gas have resulted in the cyclist not having to take evasive action? As has been pointed out, the bus approached the turn already on the right hand side of the road, as that is the only way to get a bus round that particular corner. By the time the cyclist came into view, the front of the bus was already on the rhs, before the bend (6-7 second mark shows this). Had he eased off at that point, the cyclist would have had to pass him on the right, which is not a correct manoevre either, and in fact he may have been blocked by the back of the bus, which we can't see.

I encounter exactly this type of situation almost daily, sometimes as a driver, and sometimes as a cyclist, on the twisty mountain roads where I live in France. People back off, give each other room, no problem. Only the British (or English?) can make this so complicated.

My post is a satire of the bullshit Joeinpoole is currently shovelling. He kindly opined that by slowing down the cyclist would have negated the whole thing. Which is just a little bit silly. 

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

At the very least the selfish act by the coach driver is obstruction, well police use that BS against people on bikes, at worst it's an assault.

If the vulnerable road user had been a disabled person on a trike or electric scooter they might not have been able to get so far across nor indeed react so quickly to another road users massive error/inconsiderate action. The driver didn't slow down for the turn, took it at speed and was obviously incorrectly positioned for the turn to start with.

In wet conditions the rider might not have being able to stop so quickly either.

If police don't prosecute then that's yet another miscarriage of justice and another tick in the box for drivers to do whatever the fuck they like.

Have you recently been sectioned under the Mental Health Act?  I hope like fuck that you do not hold a valid driving license if your judgement of basic situations is so bizarre and self-evidently wrong.

Joeinpoole wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

At the very least the selfish act by the coach driver is obstruction, well police use that BS against people on bikes, at worst it's an assault.

If the vulnerable road user had been a disabled person on a trike or electric scooter they might not have been able to get so far across nor indeed react so quickly to another road users massive error/inconsiderate action. The driver didn't slow down for the turn, took it at speed and was obviously incorrectly positioned for the turn to start with.

In wet conditions the rider might not have being able to stop so quickly either.

If police don't prosecute then that's yet another miscarriage of justice and another tick in the box for drivers to do whatever the fuck they like.

Have you recently been sectioned under the Mental Health Act?  I hope like fuck that you do not hold a valid driving license if your judgement of basic situations is so bizarre and self-evidently wrong.

I'm a better driver than you can ever dream of being sonshine, I hope to fuck that you stay off the roads as you're clearly a danger to other road users with your stupid, invalid and dangerous attitude and totally missing the problem/s in this scenario

Clearly attacking people's mental health is all your good for you knobjockey

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Joeinpoole wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

At the very least the selfish act by the coach driver is obstruction, well police use that BS against people on bikes, at worst it's an assault.

If the vulnerable road user had been a disabled person on a trike or electric scooter they might not have been able to get so far across nor indeed react so quickly to another road users massive error/inconsiderate action. The driver didn't slow down for the turn, took it at speed and was obviously incorrectly positioned for the turn to start with.

In wet conditions the rider might not have being able to stop so quickly either.

If police don't prosecute then that's yet another miscarriage of justice and another tick in the box for drivers to do whatever the fuck they like.

Have you recently been sectioned under the Mental Health Act?  I hope like fuck that you do not hold a valid driving license if your judgement of basic situations is so bizarre and self-evidently wrong.

I'm a better driver than you can ever dream of being sonshine, I hope to fuck that you stay off the roads as you're clearly a danger to other road users with your stupid, invalid and dangerous attitude and totally missing the problem/s in this scenario

Clearly attacking people's mental health is all your good for you knobjockey

It's "you're". 

Joeinpoole wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

 

I'm a better driver than you can ever dream of being sonshine, I hope to fuck that you stay off the roads as you're clearly a danger to other road users with your stupid, invalid and dangerous attitude and totally missing the problem/s in this scenario

Clearly attacking people's mental health is all your good for you knobjockey

It's "you're". 

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Joeinpoole wrote:

Judging by most of the responses in defence of the cyclist I find myself starting to hate cyclists myself ... even though I am obviously am one.

ktache wrote:

Can you imagine the opprobrium that would heaped on the "crazy" cyclist on the equivilent coachdriver.cc if there was dashcam footage of the cyclist doing the apex of the corner.  Except of course there could have been no danger to the occupents of the massive vehicle.

I can; scary isn't it?

JohnnyRemo wrote:

The coach wasn't emerging from a minor road  - it's a tight left-turn on the main road they are sharing. And yes, the rider should realised the difficult mnouvere the coach driver was undertaking and held back out of politeness and consideration for his own safety.

No, the driver should have realised the difficult manoeuvre he was about to undertake as he is supposed to be a professional driver who has had the training needed to drive such a large vehicle and held back out of politeness necessity and consideration for the safety of a vulnerable road user.

Unless the cyclist is also a bus driver or a driver of a similarly large vehicle, he won't have had the same training.

Pudsey Pedaller wrote:

JohnnyRemo wrote:

The coach wasn't emerging from a minor road  - it's a tight left-turn on the main road they are sharing. And yes, the rider should realised the difficult mnouvere the coach driver was undertaking and held back out of politeness and consideration for his own safety.

No, the driver should have realised the difficult manoeuvre he was about to undertake as he is supposed to be a professional driver who has had the training needed to drive such a large vehicle and held back out of politeness necessity and consideration for the safety of a vulnerable road user. Unless the cyclist is also a bus driver or a driver of a similarly large vehicle, he won't have had the same training.

I was about to make the same point as Pudsey Pedaller, but he beat me to it. It's the coach driver whose manouevre requires him to cross into the lane for oncoming traffic, and the coach driver's responsibility to ensure that that lane is clear. I'm sure there is something in the highway code about about not driving in such a way as to make other road users have to slow or change direction when overtaking or changing/encroaching upon lanes.

JohnnyRemo wrote:

The coach wasn't emerging from a minor road  - it's a tight left-turn on the main road they are sharing. And yes, the rider should realised the difficult mnouvere the coach driver was undertaking and held back out of politeness and consideration for his own safety.

seems to me it should be the responsbility of the driver that needs to cross the centre line to carry out a maneouvre to ensure there is space to do so. Not just press ahead into oncoming traffic with the view that they can see that you need to and being accomodating.

The people backing the coach driver here seem to be the same sort who cleared Helen Measures