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news
Eurostar announce increase in cycle trafficEurostar storing bikes in disabled toilets
Bikes are being stored in disabled toilets on some Eurostar services to and from France. Eurostar told the BBC that it was "occasionally" using one of two disabled toilets on some trains as a temporary measure, but disability charities have condemned the practice.
Speaking anonymously, a member of Eurostar staff said:
"The new trains have a disabled toilet at each end. But if one of those is filled with a bike, a passenger has to walk the whole length of the train to reach an accessible toilet.
"It's just not possible to always sit disabled people near the working loo. There have certainly been times when disabled passengers have been in distress."
The source also expressed a belief that the firm had “caved in to the bike lobby.”
Last year, Eurostar attempted to bring in a rule which would have forced cyclists to dismantle and box up their bikes to travel. However, following pressure from what was then CTC (now Cycling UK), it eventually backed down.
More than 9,500 people signed up to the ‘Zero Stars for Eurostar’ campaign by CTC and the ECF (European Cyclists’ Federation). The UK’s All Party Parliamentary Cycling Group also criticised the move, as did then Mayor of London, Boris Johnson MP, and the Mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo.
Cycling UK chief executive, Paul Tuohy, was unimpressed with recent developments, however. "Clearly there isn't a solution yet that has been presented by Eurostar to meet 21st century travel needs," he said.
Mick Lynch, the RMT union's national organiser with responsibility for Eurostar, said: "They decided they wanted more seats on the new trains so they took out the luggage stowage facility. It was a commercial decision. The staff are fed up with it. It's awkward, hiding a bike in a disabled toilet."
Eurostar says it is currently modifying luggage space on its new trains so that there will be room for larger items, including fully assembled bikes. However, this work will not be completed in time for peak season this summer.
Transport for All chairman Alan Benson said that storing bikes in a disabled toilet demonstrated “clear disrespect for many passengers," while Philip Connolly of Disability Rights UK said the move amounted to "discrimination" against disabled people.
Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.
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Welcome - probably didn't show as they tagged it "not near miss of the day"?
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24 comments
"The last thing I want is for the cycling community to be rowing"
I'm no Duncan Banatyne but i reckon the vans could be pretty simply converted for boats
It's OK, everybody! I geddit!
The first comment I made came from a suggestion from one of our guests that I ought to add a comment about what we are trying to do, and it had such a reaction that I have (very naughtily, I admit) added others - and the reaction from the road.cc community has always been huge and supportive, but I had no idea that people would actually be that concerned about the principle.
Yesterday's comments have so far instigated nearly 100 people to go and have a look at what we are doing (ironically, probably more since we all started rowing about it). So, there is definitely an appetite for it, but I have looked it up and it is CLEARLY AGAINST THE RULES, so I won't do it again. The last thing I want is for the cycling community to be rowing amongst themselves.
Shame, because after spending several hundred pounds on advertising on road.cc last autumn, these comments elicit just as much interest. I would happily spend more on advertising but as per the comments above we do tend to switch off to paid ads, and we are still just a very little business trying to survive post-Brexit so margins are fag-paper thin, so we have to think creatively.
These comments were always relevant to the article, and I have put on a spate of them in the last couple of weeks because I have been with a group at the Tour (who came to me from paid advertising on road.cc incidentally), or with others riding a Tour stage route, and felt it was relevant. The intent was never to overdo it, but maybe I have.
I had no idea that people had complained or felt that strongly about the principle, but now I do. Why did you not mention it to me? Again I apologise to those offended and thank those in support. Look out for or ignore our tiny (paid) ads in the Autumn. And don't blame road.cc, it's not their fault. They have handled our ads brilliantly and I am grateful if they have actively not banned my posts. Maybe they understand that tiny, new bike businesses trying not to get dropped from the peloton need a 'sticky bottle' from time to time. Surely, that's in all our interests.
As it all started with a Python reference, then I should add that every spam (it's not spam) is sacred (ahem). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
p.s. what is 'shill'? Maybe I don't want to know...
I would define spam as being indiscriminate and/or irrelevant posts to advertise. Given the relevance to the article, I don't consider LaVieEnVelo to be spam. I find it odd that a cyclist reading an article on problems transporting bikes to France would find it offensive for someone to mention their services that provide an alternative, especially given the tone in which it was written, and that it isn't a well known service. Sure I understand concern that it isn't a paid add, but as has been mentioned, that isn't the whole picture. I would find it annoying if it popped up every time there was an article vaguely related, and it was widely known about already. That would be getting spammy as it would be indiscriminate.
I have a strong tendency to try to ignore adverts as they are very rarely relevant to me and are usually trying to sell me something I'm not looking to buy. (The least irrelevant ads are usually trying to sell me something I just bought!) That's quite different from this though, given the relevance to the discussion.
As for transporting Carreras - I can see the sense in this. Having your own bike that you know fits you just right, with a saddle you get on with, etc, is far more important to me than riding a fancy bike. If you can have both, great! But if you cycle on a limited budget, I'd think taking your own bike that is set up right for you is a better option than hiring something fancy if it ends up being uncomfortable. As you may have guessed, I'm not much of a bike snob - completed a 15 hour+ charity ride on Saturday on an aluminium bike with an 11 year old frame, and many components dating back to the nineties! If someone had offered me a free loan of a full carbon superbike on the start line, I wouldn't have taken it - the risk of not being comfortable on it would massively outweigh the potential performance improvement.
Oh, and Eurostar playing cyclists off against the disabled is pretty despicable.
They are clearly simply putting profits first and trying to blame their customers for the results.
In case you missed the memo.
It's every single article related to the continent, travel, daily Stage races etc. This has been complained about for the past month. Instead of discussing articles, we end up going back and forward about business advertising. And no-one cares for a pedantic evaluation of terminology. Not sure what's more boring, a discussion about what constitutes spam or his constant spam on articles.
He has 17 posts, I think 15 are his business spam. And it would only continue if people didn't call him out on it.
You think shill's and middle men look for irrelvant places to spam their business? What sense would that even make.
The reason you can go to news sites all over the internet these days without having to second guess every comment is because shilling and business advertising is banned. We learned early on that comment sections were free game for businesses and you couldn't get an impartial discussion on anything. Second and third accounts all backing each other up, that sort of nonsense.
Just because you happen to like a particular advert doesn't mean you should drop any sense of principle. Either you can advertise on road.cc comment sections or you can't, which do you want.
Business advertising in the comments is spam regardless of how relevant to the article it is.
Any other small business thinking of advertising on road.cc will see that spam in the comments is tolerated and do that instead.
The website will then have unusable comment sections filled with spam.
If we lose our comments sections where are we going to go to argue about helmets?
I'd say LaVie's comments are fair, given the content of the article. Yes, they are advertising but in this context it's relevant.
It would be a different thing if they were posting things like that under every article on the site, but as far as I've seen they aren't.
Regarding the article, it seems Eurostar are trying to get to different groups to blame each other for the problems on their trains, when the blame lies quite clearly with the train operator.
LaVie,
I have not doused my eyes in bleach or taken a high level of offence. I am though intending to ride Ventoux next year and shall add you to the options list.
Thanks!
That's great! Thanks for your support!
Why the hell would you pay someone to ship a Carrera bike to France (yes, I am a bike snob)....
Aaaah... that's my poor old bike (now deceased after many thousand miles - now riding and happy with a new Orro) and my son's. I have put a lot of posh bikes in that trailer. Almost always posher than mine.
As a disabled person and a cyclist, I'm fucking appalled!
Travelling anywhere with my sitting disability plus bike is bad enough. Having to sort out assistance, (hoping it turns up, that they'll sort out seats together) and deal with the general public being arses in general (how many fuckwits can be relied upon to comment about how 'comfortable' it must be to sprawl across two seats. It's not, trust me. I wouldn't do it if I wasn't desperate.) Last two train trips reduced me to tears and too much codeine. I'm a planner, but there's only so much planning I can do.
I've seen the worst of cycle provision, and some of the worst of disability provision. I've also seen a lot of careless and careful staff (the latter mostly hamstrung by the incompetency of the former or management decisions).
The problem is, at a time when both should be strenghtened, and rights enforced, both are being eroded, and often at the cost of the other.
I sympathise with your plight - you try to keep fit and active (via cycling) and you just get ignorami (ignoramuses?) abusing you.
I can't speak for other services, but GWR train staff always seem to be friendly and considerate to people with disabilities on my morning commute. However, when I come to stow my bike, I'm often aware that cyclists take up all the allotted room for cycles and people with disabilities. Luckily there's almost never a wheelchair user that boards after Bristol so it hasn't been a problem, but it does concern me that there's only the bare minimum of space given over to alternate needs.
Yeah those Megabus deals are class. Didn't know you coud get through the channel tunnel doing it though.. pretty sweet!
For a very cheap way to the continent, I've used Megabus to G(h)ent a few times (once for £1!!) and they're OK with compactly-bagged bikes too. They also go to Lille.
I wouldn't fancy any longer than those destinations (5-6 hours) - indeed I wouldn't even like 5-6 hours on a coach but you can stretch your legs at the Chunnel check-in and onboard Le Shuttle train (yes, the bus goes on a train which goes under the sea) so it's not as bad as it sounds. The total time is also reduced by there not being a lengthy check-in or security process. While it's suggested you arrive at Victoria an hour ahead, the last time I went there wasn't any check-in - you just boarded the bus about 5 minutes before departure! At the G(h)ent stop there's no staff or station - it's a hotel car park and the driver checks passengers.
Other coach companies cross over or under the Channel but I haven't used those.
Playing off cyclists' needs vs. the disabled is a poor show by Eurostar. They could quite easily have made space for several assembled bikes, just as regular trains do.
Alternatively, a soft, unpadded bike bag is a good investment: mine has me saved thousands. I wouldn't trust airline baggage handlers but on Eurostar you carry it on and off yourself. Needs the handlebars unbolted and tucked away (as well as the wheels and maybe saddle off) to make the 85cm(ish) length rule but it's 10 minutes work either end and there's ample space in the larger luggage racks (much larger than in domestic carriages). My bag rolls folds and rolls up to roughly the size of a brick so it's easy to carry.
One thing that was that some people may not be able to dissmantel and reassemble their bikes, some people may not have the technical knowledge to do it properly. Some people like older folks may struggle doing it as well. Its not that difficult to have a storage car some trains that run through my station can accomodate about 15 bikes plus a lot of bulky luggage thats not needed in the main cabins.
The terrible options for getting your bikes across the channel to those lovely riders' playgrounds are one of the reasons that we set up La Vie en Vélo (http://www.lavieenvelo.com/cycle_france/file/getting_there.php) . We take riders' bikes down for them all safe and cosy in our custom-fitted trailer, and riders can ride with us too or we can meet them from their flights - which I will be doing this weekend for a group of 7 arriving at Marseille for a Mont Ventoux long weekend. I pick their bikes up on Thursday morning and meet them on Friday morning with their bikes all racked and ready to go. (http://www.lavieenvelo.com/cycle_france/file/mont_ventoux.php)
There are other options to Eurostar or the dreaded luggage carousel!
trailer + bikes.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE
Top marks for ingenuity in making your point. Apologies if you're offended but we're just a tiny little business (I'm still a PE teacher) trying to let people know about what we do, because when we do they do seem to like what we do maybe because of many of the reasons that crop up in the article and the comments above.
If every little business was allowed to spam wherever they wanted forums woud be unusable for shills pimping their wares. Spam is spam. Any other forum or comment section and you'd be banned. Rightly so.
Technically, you're right.
However, despite travelling to the Continent with my bike at least once a year every year, I had never considered this option, and I appreciate La Vie en Velo bringing this to my attention.
That's what paid advertising on the site is for. Any article related to cycling on the continent we have the same spam for months now. If it was spam for something else that you didn't care for, I'm sure you wouldn't be so appreciative.
Actually, I've just put my ad blocker back on for road.cc now. They made a plea for people to whitelist them recently and some of us thought it was reasonable to supprort the site through paid ads. But if they're allowing unpaid ads in comments then, I'll get rid of the spam I have control of.
Thanks for your support Gasman Jim, but last thing I want to do is piss people off. When I do these mentions (I don't think it's really spam though) on the forums I try and keep it relevant to the article and it always results in a lot of people coming to have a look at what we do (about 50 from yesterday's mention). I do pay for ads on road.cc too and will do some more in the Autumn. But I will knock it on the head if it's causing disruption, of course. With apologies and thanks to those relevant parties.
Wish it was easier to make underwater rail. Would be amazing if we had loads of long distance ones going regularly.