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Rise of cycle cams debated on This Morning

Use of helmet cams ‘smacks of kangaroo justice’ says guest

Earlier this week, ITV’s This Morning invited two guests on to debate the increasing popularity of helmet cams in a segment entitled ‘Shaming Britain’s drivers – cycling vigilante’. The portion of the show in question is currently available to watch via the ITV Player.

The segment opens with the footage of a woman caught eating a bowl of cereal while driving which was recently uploaded by cycle instructor, David Williams. Williams was subsequently the subject of a Daily Mail article by Michael Gove’s wife, Sarah Vine, which branded people who use helmet cameras the "Cycling Stasi." In the article, Vine described those who used helmet cams as "infuriatingly, throat-throttlingly, red-mist-inducingly smug."

The two people involved in the This Morning debate were Dave Sherry, a bus driver and cyclist who earlier this year claimed that his footage had resulted in around 50 convictions, and journalist Angela Epstein. A frequent guest on television debates, Epstein was also the ghost writer of The Art of the Loophole: Making the Law Work for You by celebrity lawyer Nick Freeman.

“First of all, I don’t like vigilantism,” she begins, before addressing Sherry directly.

“You say you keep your eyes on the road. I’m sure you try and do that. I don’t see how you can be a law-abiding cyclist and at the same time kind of try and police everybody else. This smacks of kangaroo justice.”

Epstein concedes that there are motorists who do ‘incredibly stupid things’ and points people towards a recent Daily Telegraph article of hers in which she argued that drivers should be obliged to switch off their phones altogether and that even hands-free phone use can be distracting.

However, while she at one point says that ‘not all’ cyclists are ‘horrendous’ on the roads, that sense of perspective seems lacking when she later describes how she had observed the cyclists on London’s roads in the taxi on the way to the studio. “They’re absolutely shocking. They just don’t care,” she says.

Epstein believes that, “one can cycle badly, cause an accident and more often than not it will be the driver that will be at the very least prosecuted.”

She also appears to believe that cyclists are somehow exempt from criminal charges whereas there is “a whole canon of driving law” and questions why there is no cyclists’ equivalent to a driving test.

“They’re not obliged to do the things that we have to do to ensure that we understand road safety. If you want to campaign for something – look at everybody who’s anywhere near the roads. Make there parity there because cyclists can be even worse than motorists.”

In response, Sherry – who drives professionally – repeats a point he has made earlier, that in a collision between a car and cyclist, the cyclist will always come off worse. It is unclear whether the implications of this message are fully understood by those around him.

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

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102 comments

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ron611087 | 8 years ago
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I don't go out of my way to record incidents, I simply record what happens going to a destination. Everything I film is in the public domain.

What drivers forget is that whilst a cyclists records moments of other road users behaviour, they records all of their own. If the cyclist breaks the law (s)he's gifting the authorities with the evidence. It works both ways.

I have no sympathy for drivers. They're upset that they can no longer break the law with anonymity. If they think it's one sided, they can get a dash-cam. Many won't because it will expose their crap driving.

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dassie | 8 years ago
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Whatever one thinks of Sherry's method, the cyclist is the vulnerable road user here; so dangerous acts by motorists are arguably best in the open, and perhaps less likely to be repeated. I don't think capturing and bringing to light dangerous driving is 'vigilantism' - taking the law into one's own hands in some way may well be, but that's different.

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vsmith1 | 8 years ago
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What about the huge rise in dash cams? Are they going to describe these drivers as "Driving Stasi" and bringing Kangaroo justice?

A lot of drivers have dash cans for many of the same reasons - evidence collection in the event of an incident.

Just saying...

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bikebot | 8 years ago
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I've read and listened to some absolute junk in the last week, but I won't sink so low as to watch daytime TV.

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Gkam84 | 8 years ago
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Not fecking Dave Sherry, who made him lord and saviour of all cyclists. I for one wish he would disappear and stop trying to be some sort of TV star, every time I've seen him, he's enforced to me why some drivers hate cyclists, it is because they all think we are dicks like him  14

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notfastenough replied to Gkam84 | 8 years ago
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Gkam84 wrote:

Not fecking Dave Sherry, who made him lord and saviour of all cyclists. I for one wish he would disappear and stop trying to be some sort of TV star, every time I've seen him, he's enforced to me why some drivers hate cyclists, it is because they all think we are dicks like him  14

That may be true, but I'm unsure anyone can stoop as low as Angela Epstein. I think the Manchester Evening News stopped enabling comments on stories because the utter turd that she wrote would be torn apart by readers as soon as she had clicked 'publish'.

Any 'debate' that includes the word vigilante is usually just inflammatory nonsense.

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themartincox replied to Gkam84 | 8 years ago
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Gkam84 wrote:

Not fecking Dave Sherry, who made him lord and saviour of all cyclists. I for one wish he would disappear ...... he's enforced to me why some drivers hate cyclists, (

"his footage had resulted in around 50 convictions"

there's probably another 50 drivers who also wish he would disappear, but the fact is, he's probably made them disappear off the roads!

like him or not, and i have no opinion on the matter as I've not read nor heard him, he is taking actual action against what he sees as dreadful driving, and fair play to him I say.

I knock on car windows if I'm riding past and they are on phones, and just for lols I like to lean on my car horn as I overtake drivers on their phones, helps to disrupt their conversation a little  3

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Gkam84 replied to themartincox | 8 years ago
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themartincox wrote:
Gkam84 wrote:

Not fecking Dave Sherry, who made him lord and saviour of all cyclists. I for one wish he would disappear ...... he's enforced to me why some drivers hate cyclists, (

"his footage had resulted in around 50 convictions"

there's probably another 50 drivers who also wish he would disappear, but the fact is, he's probably made them disappear off the roads!

Those are just claims of 50 convictions and warnings, which he himself has quoted a number of times, depending on the interview or programme, he says 60 and 70. I've yet to see any proof to any convictions from his footage at all. I'm fairly sure he'll have a few, but his claims are never backed up.

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cat1commuter replied to themartincox | 8 years ago
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themartincox wrote:

there's probably another 50 drivers who also wish he would disappear, but the fact is, he's probably made them disappear off the roads!

I don't believe that for a second. Courts go out of their way not to hand out driving bans. And plenty still drive if they are banned.

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Daveyraveygravey | 8 years ago
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Epstein is your typical "prisoner-of-the-car" person.

"Whole canon of driving law"? Does that only apply to car drivers? Or is she talking about the rules and regulations of the road, which apply to us all, however we use them.

“They’re not obliged to do the things that we have to do to ensure that we understand road safety." Really? You think you know more about road safety than a cyclist?

"I don’t see how you can be a law-abiding cyclist and at the same time kind of try and police everybody else. " Part of being a cyclist involves having 360 degree vision and knowing what else is going on around you. The cameras just run, you don't have to "operate" them, which means you can concentrate on the road and the other vehicles. AGH! And how many drivers use their mirrors before they maneouvre? Some of them can't even be arsed to indicate! And has she heard of SMIDSY?

I don't have a camera on my bike; the standards of driving around me are shocking and infuriate me, but I still enjoy riding my bike. Most of the time it is out on the quiet country lanes of Sussex, but I do sometimes seek out busy traffic. I ride assertively, but with regard and respect for everyone else. I thank those that make time for me, I pull over if I think I am causing a long delay for others, and I go mental with those that don't think I "matter".

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jasecd replied to Daveyraveygravey | 8 years ago
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@Daveyraveygravy

Nail on head - 100% agree

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brooksby | 8 years ago
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Quote:

It is unclear whether the implications of this message are fully understood by those around him.

But as a cyclist you are just one of 'Them', especially to (what I believe to be) the typical viewer of This Morning, and so it doesn't matter.

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