Those pesky cyclists, always exceeding urban speed limits… oh wait! 20mph camera catches over 23,000 speeding drivers; Ford unveiled as official RideLondon partner; 71% of Dubliners support more bike lanes; Bardet abandons Giro + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
Those pesky cyclists, always exceeding urban speed limits… oh wait
A couple of days ago on the blog, you may recall, we featured some sage (and misspelled) road safety guidance from Merseyside Police, advising people on bikes to “cycle like you drive”.
Many cyclists can exceed urban speed limits, yet brakes on pedal cycles can be weak. Think, if a child or elderly person were to unexpectedly step into your path, could you stop in time? Cycle like you drive, with curtesy, care and within the law #FatalFour pic.twitter.com/WdELsk9xpn
— Roads Policing Unit (@MerPolTraffic) May 18, 2022
According to the tweet (which, remarkably, remains up two days on – who had that in the pool?), “many cyclists can exceed urban speed limits”.
So, when riding in towns and cities, cyclists should adopt the behaviour and attitude of those famously law-abiding, careful and patient road users, motorists.
Oh, wait…
A new 20mph speed camera in Plymouth has detected more than 23,500 speeding drivers before it was officially switched on – including 1,100 in the first 24 hours alone. https://t.co/0MOuosmLut
— APPGCW (@allpartycycling) May 18, 2022
This is just incredible. The level of law-breaking among British drivers is off the scale. 23,500 *before it was switched on* … https://t.co/fyYfklRUVz
— Jeremy Vine (@theJeremyVine) May 19, 2022
1,100 in the first day?! Must have been cyclists driving all those cars…
Of course, as with anything pedalling broadcaster Jezza Vine touches, the whataboutery merchants were soon out in force:
Here’s a question for you as your finger pointing , how many pushbikes are legal ? ie: bells and reflectors ? How many electric assist bikes are chipped to above the 16mph limit , how many private electric scooters are used in public illegally ?
— anthony dalby (@t50lby) May 20, 2022
Speed limits should apply to all road users and that includes cyclists.
— Nerd (@stillphone) May 20, 2022
And yet in the City of London cyclists think temporary ‘sleeping policeman’ don’t apply to them. Straight over the handlebars. Coleman St. Moorgate.
— Basil Bushel, Esq. (@lazyfayre) May 20, 2022
Very hard to keep to a 20mph limit. Especially when 30mph is perfectly safe on a 20mph road. Been there and done it. 🤷♂️
— R⚽️ger Williams (@roger_lfc) May 19, 2022
Over 2 wks @HGWestLTN logged 15,504 vehicles exceeding 25mph on Hither Green Lane, a 20mph zone
🚫 17 were >50mph
🚫 211 at 40-50mph
🚫 6,756 at 30-40mph
🚫 9,419 at 25-30mph
Highest speed:56.89mph@MPSLewishamCntl just keep saying they haven’t the resources to enforce the law😕— Paul Howarth ♻️ 💉💉💉 (@PaulHowarthUK) May 20, 2022
But remember folks, cycle like you drive…
RideLondon announces... one of the world's biggest car manufacturers as presenting partner
It’s been a busy week for the people behind RideLondon Essex, with a 22mph speed limit hastily canned and news that riders’ times will be paused at feed stops ahead of the event next Sunday. Now, the sportive’s organisers have announced that car giant Ford will be a major partner.
> Has Zwift had its day? Plus RideLondon’s U-turn on on the road.cc Podcast
> RideLondon: rider times will be paused at feed stations
> RideLondon safety car WON’T set 22mph speed limit
To be fair, Ford is pushing its ‘Park the Car’ initiative (noted on Tuesday’s live blog) as part of the partnership, encouraging people to ditch the car and cycle or walk if the journey is under three miles.
For the pro event, the race director will also drive a Ford Kuga PHEV in the convoy, and the Ford Mustang Mach-E will be “the Official Electric Vehicle as part of the London 2022 RideLondon Classique support fleet.”
This is all well and good, but then again Graham on Twitter may have a point…
Have you considered asking them to stop manufacturing the Ford Raptor which gets you 14mpg – that would be more effective ?
— GrahamO (@GrahamO) May 20, 2022
Alive, alive, oh: 71 percent of Dubliners support more cycling infrastructure
In Dublin’s fair city, where the bike lanes aren’t too pretty…
Molly Malone will hopefully be able to wheel her wheelbarrow more safely through Dublin’s broad and narrow streets in the future (okay, I’ll stop now), as a recent survey has found that 71 percent of the city’s residents are in favour of the creation of more dedicated cycle lanes.
The 2021 Walking and Cycling Index, produced by sustainable transport charity Sustrans and published during this year’s Bike Week, which runs until Sunday and features 600 events across Ireland, found that 25 percent of Dubliners cycle at least five days a week.
However, only 18 percent of women, compared to 33 percent of men, said they cycled regularly in the city.
The survey of over 1,100 residents also concluded that people would feel more inclined to cycle, walk or wheel their way around Dublin if the city’s existing active travel infrastructure was improved.
71 percent said they would support an increase in dedicated cycling infrastructure, while 76 percent would support the installation of more road crossings with shorter waiting times.
84 percent were also in favour of ’20-minute neighbourhoods’, where essential daily services and shops would be within easy walking distance.
Ireland’s Transport Minister Eamon Ryan said the results of the survey were “packed with good news” as they demonstrated that cycling and walking was an important part of life in Dublin.
“Crucially, however, this report is also helping us build a picture of what people need, gaps in infrastructure and how we can improve things further so that we can make it more attractive for even more people to choose walking, wheeling and cycling in years to come,” Ryan said.
Just Egan Bernal, out for a spin, buying some plants…
Driving to work – just passed Egan Bernal out for a spin. Our sport is beautiful – there was last year’s Giro champion just pedalling through the traffic by a garden centre all on his own.
— Ned Boulting (@nedboulting) May 20, 2022
When he’s not shopping at Dobbies (other garden centres are available), the 2019 Tour de France winner is remaining tight-lipped about a possible return to racing in July or August. Watch this space…
Cyclist riding 1,800 miles to site of Stalag IV-B prisoner-of-war camp, 78 years after his father was taken there
On 5th June 1944, Richard Stoodley’s father Lance Corporal Robert ‘Bob’ Stoodley, then 20, was one of four who took off from RAF Harwell near Didcot bound for Normandy. After successfully completing their D-Day mission, Corporal Stoodley was captured and taken on a brutal 23-day train journey to Stalag IV-B, one of the largest prisoner-of-war camps in Germany during WW2.
Thankfully Corporal Stoodley escaped in 1945, and 78 years later it’s his journey to the camp that son Richard will recreate by bike, starting on 5th June of course. Richard plans to ride around 90 miles a day, on a route “that will take in as much of the [original] route as possible even though some can only be the best estimation”, arriving on the former site of Stalag IV-B 21 days after departing Normandy.
Unfortunately Stoodley Sr. passed away last year, with Richard adding: “I am doing this for myself but also for my Dad who turned 97 in May 2021 but unfortunately left us 3 months later in August that year. We spent hours talking about the trip and planned so much of it together.”
Over £3,000 has already been raised for the Support Our PARAS charity – you can find out more and donate on Richard’s JustGiving page here.
Sagan shredding on the trails
🤘 Our guys in America. pic.twitter.com/5H3AfczfdZ
— Team TotalEnergies (@TeamTotalEnrg) May 20, 2022
Well he’s actually just posing in a snap with Daniel Oss here, but we assume that’s what happened next. Wonder if Peter got the pressure washer out after his ride?
The stupidest of all the stupid s*it people say about cycling?
“Most cyclists deliberately do things on purpose so they can post it on YouTube.”
— Stupid shit people say on Facebook about cycling (@AntiCyclingFB) May 20, 2022
The Twitter account ‘Stupid shit people say on Facebook about cycling’ regularly keeps us entertained and horrified all at once, and this one might just top the lot so far. Plenty of cyclists have chipped in with their opinion on this gem already…
yup, would be great to have a viral on YouTube with thousands of likes when i’m 6 feet under
— 🚵 Hannah (@CyclistHannah) May 20, 2022
It’s true. I pay my mates to close pass me whilst on their phones then shout abuse at me. Totally worth it for the clicks.
— Crispo (@bigcrispo) May 20, 2022
Thank you so much for yet another well informed, reasoned and valued opinion on cyclists. Don’t know what I would do without your gems of wisdom. Keep ’em coming, always a pleasure to hear from reasonable minded drivers.
— Steve Toczyski (@Chisky48) May 20, 2022
Of course, whoever made this comment on Facebook does have some stiff competition in the form of the admin of a certain farming advocacy page…
Romain Bardet abandons Giro d’Italia with stomach bug
We are sad to confirm that @romainbardet has abandoned the #Giro. After becoming sick during yesterday’s stage, his condition worsened overnight and despite all efforts, he is no longer in a position to continue the race.
— Team DSM (@TeamDSM) May 20, 2022
Sad news for fans of panache and boyish looks everywhere, as Team DSM confirms that Romain Bardet has abandoned the Giro d’Italia during today’s stage 13 between Samremo and Cuneo.
Bardet had looked in fantastic form throughout the Giro (even combining an impressive showing on Blockhaus with lead out duties two days ago), and this morning sat in fourth place on the GC, trailing pink jersey Juan Pedro López by 14 seconds, and only two seconds behind João Almeida and Richard Carapaz, arguably the Frenchman’s biggest rivals for the overall win.
With the general classification so delicately poised, many onlookers were intrigued to see how Bardet, who last stood on the final podium of a grand tour at the 2017 Tour de France, would fare in the Giro’s final week after such a strong start to the race.
Unfortunately, a stomach bug has scuppered the 31-year-old’s Italian renaissance, and despite struggling through yesterday’s stage while sick, Bardet was forced to pull the plug on the road to Cuneo, disappointing expectant cycling fans (and former teammates) everywhere:
Noooooooooo🥲 @romainbardet!
Hope its not to important ! Sorry to see you leave the giro!— nicholas roche (@nicholasroche) May 20, 2022
Bardet, on diamond form and my fave for the overall win, is out of the #Giro with illness. 😭 pic.twitter.com/wDKhe4DKZa
— Belinda (@reallyspoketome) May 20, 2022
.@giroditalia stop the race and wait for Bardet to get better please and thank you. #Giro #CouchPeloton
— Belinda (@reallyspoketome) May 20, 2022
— Benji Naesen (@BenjiNaesen) May 20, 2022
What a huge blow. Romain Bardet abandons the Giro with reported stomach problems. I was so excited to see him fully in the mix. What a shame.
— Orla Chennaoui (@SportsOrla) May 20, 2022
Although I do agree with Katy that the Bardet boke replay was a tad unnecessary…
I genuinely did not need the visuals of Romain Bardet throwing up, thanks host broadcaster 🤢 Poor guy, I’m sure he didn’t appreciate it either #Giro105 #Giro2022
— Katy M, Giro Edition (@writebikerepeat) May 20, 2022
Scores on the Whoop: Recovery key to Oldani’s breakaway success
As you may have noticed throughout GCN’s coverage of the Giro, fitness and recovery tracker Whoop has been keeping tabs on the riders as they take on the stresses and strains of a three-week grand tour.
Whoop’s stats, which chronicle a rider’s sleep performance and how much strain they are under during a stage, give a revealing insight into that mysterious element of grand tour success: recovery.
It’s one thing being ready for a one-day classic, where you can leave everything on the road, it’s another being able to repeat the feat day after day during a stage race.
For instance, Whoop’s data for Stefano Oldani, the winner of yesterday’s stage from the break into Genova, shows that it wasn’t just his fast finish that enabled the Alpecin-Fenix rider to take his first pro victory ahead of Lorenzo Rota and Gijs Leemreize.
As you can see below, Oldani’s ability to recover during the Giro’s surprisingly fast and stressful second week teed him up perfectly for his shot at glory in his home tour (though his sleep, understandably, took a bit of a hit following his win).
Oldani’s teammate and breakaway partner, Mathieu van der Poel, was in dire need of Monday’s rest day, according to Whoop’s data, but has recovered well as he aims for a second stage win in the next day or two.
Although road racing – as we all know – is never an exact science, and the sprinters’ carefully tuned recovery could come to naught if the peloton doesn’t catch the breakaway today…
“Doing 100 mile with a backpack on will be something new”: RideLondon organisers blasted again for not including bag drop
The RideLondon organisers can’t catch a break, can they?
(Quite like the Giro peloton today… Although I probably shouldn’t speak too soon on that.)
After doing their best to recover from some self-inflicted PR disasters this week, from safety cars to time pauses and car sponsorship deals, the organisers have received yet more flak this morning – for not including a bag drop for entrants.
Oh good, you can afford to provide a bag drop now.
— Ryan Waters (@ryanwaters48) May 20, 2022
I wouldn’t hold your breath. I tweeted them about NO BAG DROP, they never replied. Doing 100 mile with a back pack on will be something new.
Wonder if the is any where to get change at the end, or has this been scraped to?— Bernie Bee (@posh1500) May 20, 2022
The bag drop fiasco appears to be something of a long-held grievance for entrants travelling to RideLondon this year:
Exactly. Can’t even get a refund yet the event *I* registered for was based on my previous @RideLondon experience. This is far from it! I would not have paid for no bag drop, no rider area at the end, a safety car and god knows what else they’ve taken away
— Gemma (@GG_jemma) May 16, 2022
@RideLondon tell us how NO BAG DROP works for thousands of participants, travelling from all over, scrambling for storage at 6am?! No exhibition and a basic service, where’s the very high £90 entry cost been spent??? #fixit
— Matthew Davies (@LittleMattVelo) May 8, 2022
It never ends, does it?
Heartbreak for the break as Démare seals Giro hat-trick
¡Manda la ley de la maglia Ciclamino! ¡Victoria para @ArnaudDemare !
El francés se impone en un esprint espectacular a Bauhaus y Cavendish
Lo analizamos todo en #LaMontonera 🚴 pic.twitter.com/2Bdy0Vwn13
— Eurosport.es (@Eurosport_ES) May 20, 2022
Turns out I spoke too soon.
It had all looked so rosy for the leading quartet with 35 kilometres to go on stage 13 of the Giro d’Italia.
At that point Julius Van den Berg, Pascal Eenkhoorn, Mirco Maestri and Nicolas Prodhomme had three minutes and 40 seconds on the slow-awakening peloton, who looked to have ceded one of the final opportunities for the sprinters before Verona.
With twenty kilometres to go, the gap to the peloton was two and a half minutes; by ten to go, it was still over a minute.
Hesitation, however, is the thief of breakaway success, and so it proved again in Cuneo, as the front four were swallowed up in the final kilometre, when for so long the day looked within their grasp.
Loved the commitment of the break today in the Giro. Unfortunately the last drag with 2kms to go killed them off and their legs. #GiroDItalia
— Brian Smith 𝕆𝕃𝕐 (@BriSmithy) May 20, 2022
One rider who hasn’t hesitated at this Giro is Arnaud Démare; the Frenchman once again showing his strength on the slight rise to the line, to take his third stage of the 2022 Giro and the eighth of his career.
A fast-finishing Phil Bauhaus came in second to the flying maglia ciclamino, while Mark Cavendish – who briefly looked like he had the beating of Démare before running out of legs – rounded off the podium.
Poursuite derrière l’échappée, mise en place du train, victoire : une joie proportionnelle à tout le travail effectué aujourd’hui ! pic.twitter.com/uJX4KhyhyU
— Équipe Cycliste Groupama-FDJ (@GroupamaFDJ) May 20, 2022
For what could have been a dull transitional week on the Giro, the last four days have seen relentless, restless racing, a fitting prelude to the race’s mountainous denouement, which starts in earnest this weekend.
The sprinters, meanwhile, have only one more chance to make their mark on the race, next week in Treviso (I’ll be there too, just to make you jealous) – which perhaps explains the panic that arose within the hitherto snoozing peloton this afternoon.
“Drivers think that speed limits only apply to cyclists”: 20mph speed camera reaction
This morning’s story, about the thousand drivers a day breaking a new 20mph speed limit in Plymouth (despite the clear and obvious evidence that only cyclists speed through towns and cities), got quite a few of you talking in the comments.
Here are some of your thoughts:
One day it may dawn on drivers that it is the appalling standard of driving that is causing speed limits to be continually lowered.
The same with ever-increasing use of double white lines as numerous motorists demonstrate that they are incapable of judging how to overtake safely when it was previously allowed. Most traffic restrictions that councils and the HA bring in are evidence based (if only they’d apply some evidence to their approaches to cycle lane design).
The astonishment at 1,100 drivers exceeding the 20mph speed limit is hardly warranted; anywhere in the UK would get the same result. Drivers think that speed limits only apply to cyclists.
I’ve managed to retrain myself to drive at 20mph where those limits apply, and frequently find myself being tailgated and overtaken. Some of the roads with 20mph limits may be safe to drive at 30mph, but the speed limit is the speed limit. Some of the roads with the new 20mph limit definitely need it.
Twice recently I have experienced road rage for driving at the 30mph limit. In the first instance the guy drove the wrong side of a roundabout to overtake and in the second the guy roared past while giving me the bird only to pull in at a burger place about 300 metres further on!
But what about that cyclist I saw once ride on a pavement? Have you considered how that renders all drivers faultless in all situations?
I’ve found that, when I do drive (infrequently and in someone else’s vehicle, as I don’t own a car anymore) I am a lot more conscious of speed limits and road rules, compared to before I took up cycling. I think being a vulnerable road user makes one even more aware of why road rules need to be followed; I reckon all drivers should have a ‘cycling experience’ test before completing their practical driving test!
Ah yes, “bells & reflectors” – two of the ‘Fatal Four’ right there…
And just to get this straight in my own head – cyclists apparently both break urban speed limits AND constantly hold drivers up?
Driver: Sees you from far enough away to slow down, wind down the window and work out what they are going to yell at you.
Driver: I can’t see you.
From the archives: Britain’s shortest cycle lane?
As we head into the weekend, let’s take a trip down memory lane… down an extremely short cycle lane in fact, unveiled on the York Road in Leeds way back in 2001.
Ah, 2001… Blair and New Labour were still riding high, Beckham was single-handedly dragging England to the World Cup, and a certain Texan with a heart-warming story was on his way to a third straight Tour de France title.
And Leeds, apparently, was aiming for the title of ‘UK’s shortest bike lane’.
When Leeds boasted (arguably) Britain’s shortest cycle lane https://t.co/SYIX8NLN5T #Leeds #cycling pic.twitter.com/E2W62NprgI
— Andrew Hutchinson (@AndyHutchYPN) May 19, 2022
I really enjoy how it drops straight into a puddle – purely, I imagine, for the added entertainment value…
Now that’s what I call infrastructure.
20 May 2022, 08:45
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Good old Spoons, reinforcing stereotypes since 1979…
Round-the-world cyclist arrives in UK... and has bike stolen outside a Reading Wetherspoons two days later
Josiah Skeats says he cycled through many countries on his travels and was "always welcomed with hospitality", which unfortunately wasn't the case during his time back in the UK
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Latest Comments
I actually like the INEOS kit this year. They stand out in the peloton and orange is just an awesome color overall. Light grey is a much better alternative to white, and makes for one of the best kits in the pro peloton this year to my eye. I think the worst kit I’ve seen recently is the one the author, Steve Thomas is wearing in his author profile picture. It basically removes all credibility for him making any fashion or design related statements. Also, maybe learn a little about the Grenadier before making uninformed, derogatory comments that aren’t really necessary or applicable to the subject at hand.
Looking at the casualty statistics it's far more likely that you will suffer death or serious injury riding to Tesco's than participating in racing, primarily because of the presence of cars. If you don't think helmets offer any protection then fine, don't wear one; if you believe they do offer some protection you're probably more likely to experience the benefit if you wear one for everyday commuting and leisure riding and leave it off for racing than vice versa. Certainly if I was offered a choice when riding to my local Herne Hill velodrome of wearing one to ride through traffic to get there but taking it off to ride round the track or vice versa I would choose the first option.
Here is where Burt has a very good point. The stats just don't support the claims of safety benefits, especially when combined with the effects of speeding motor vehicles.
"I think I nearly died doing extreme sport and my main takeaway is that the rest of you should all wear PPE to go to tesco". BBC loves helmet stories. I blame that Dan guy.
Ah yes. Because what a gravel bike needs is a shed ton more weight. None of the 32 tyre options are likely to be in Gravel friendly widths and weights.
Did he also make you wear a helmet for taking a shower, changing a lightbulb or being a passenger in a car? Statistically, those are also very likely to result in possibly fatal head injuries and the exact same argument applies to protecting your head for those rare accidents. Also, what was his opinion on traffic safety and separate infrastructure? I suspect his views and observations were coloured by the media's constant focussing on bike helmets and not actual effective methods to reduce danger.
By far the worst of these is Footon Servetto - probably the cycling equivalent of football's Coventry City brown away kit. The INEOS kit is unpleasant because I associate it with Ratcliffe. I own a HTC Columbia jersey. It looks OK, but I admit I bought it for £10 on a bargain rail in my LCS. I also used to own an Astana jersey and my performances always improved by 5% whenever I wore it. I got rid of it when my heart nearly stalled in bed one night🙂 Personally, I don't mind the Bogota Humana kit. It seems ok as long as all of the riders were happy to wear it. I'd like to think they were given the opportunity to approve the design beforehand.
I agree, stop building useless cycle lanes - build proper ones.
I love the castorama kit. Perfect to be able cycle to work, fix steam engines then cycle home again all in the same kit
Okay, well I don't doubt your experience but I can only say it's not mine and from the lack of mention generally in discussions not that of many other people. Maybe when you're racing with your head down the wind breaks over the crown and then round into your ears, intuitively I would say that riding heads up, which is what most commuters do, a helmet would be more likely slightly to deflect the wind away from your ears than into them.
79 thoughts on “Those pesky cyclists, always exceeding urban speed limits… oh wait! 20mph camera catches over 23,000 speeding drivers; Ford unveiled as official RideLondon partner; 71% of Dubliners support more bike lanes; Bardet abandons Giro + more on the live blog”
It surely doesn’t matter if
It surely doesn’t matter if “30 mph is perfectly safe on a 20 mph road”. The point is that the speed limit has been set at 20 mph. If it had been set at 10 mph, for example, you would obey the speed limit applicable to your vehicle – you wouldn’t be able to say, “But it’s perfectly safe to drive at 30 mph along here!”
brooksby wrote:
Drivers miss the point that lower speed limits are not just about safety (although this is of course important) but also emissions and noise.
Punishment for a driver caught doing 30 in a 20 should be to stand in front of a car doing 27mph, because that is the difference in impact speed if a hazard is seen 3 car lengths ahead at 30mph, where the car would stop safely at 20* (according to DOT, no idea what the test conditions were, or whether the car was a Morris Marina or a 911 Turbo).
On my speed awareness course
On my speed awareness course one chap argued the “My modern Mercedes can stop on a sixpence so speed limits don’t apply to me like other people.”
“So when you don’t see someone step out from behind a van, how does that help?” was the response. Crickets.
When I started driving in the 70s, it was still common for people to boast about driving with worn out brakes – one man was terrified when he drove a friend’s ancient Austin A40 and realised it had no brakes, another instance was a mate who when he stopped at lights, opened the door, dropped a brick behind a wheel, then pulled it back in on a piece of string as his temporary handbrake.
I doubt either of those two examples set the standard of braking distance advice, but for all the improvements, the weight of cars has probably doubled since the braking standards were set.
IanMSpencer wrote:
Firstly, I very much doubt it can, even on dry roads.
Secondly, his reaction times are no better than the drivers of 40 years ago. If anything driver distraction, sound insulation or the use of ICE can mean that they may well be paying less attention to what’s in front of them.
Also, a human’s field of vision decreases significantly with speed while the outcome of any collision with a pedestrian (and presumably a cyclist) changes drastically between 20 and 40 mph.
https://twitter.com/brenttoderian/status/1470290100638543880
There are always things you don’t expect on both urban and rural roads. It’s why drivers who have recently passed their test can’t be as good at anticipating hazards as those of us who have learnt from experience. But unfortunately many drivers become arrogant and careless and make too many assumptions.
What Merc idiot fails to get,
What Merc idiot fails to get, and this unfortunately applies a lot, is that you cannot change the laws of physics.
Energy is proportional to velocity squared not velocity, so the energy in any crash at 30 is over double that of said crash at 20.
And I would guess that braking distances would go up similarly.
It’s why going from a motorway speed limit from 70 to 80, even though it seems a small increase, adds around 30% more energy to any crash.
And that there’s over a third more energy by “only” going 5mph over a 30mph limit.
Yeah, brakes have improved crash protection has improved (mainly for the occupants…). But you cannot change the laws of physics.
Scientific literacy…
Ah yes, “bells & reflectors”
Ah yes, “bells & reflectors” – two of the ‘Fatal Four’ right there…
EDIT: and just to get this straight in my own head – cyclists apparently both break urban speed limits AND constantly hold drivers up?
Clem Fandango wrote:
Schrodinger’s cyclist – it must be the quantum superposition that the UCI has banned that’s causing it, in which one can be both too fast and too slow at the same time. The same position that’s associated with simultaneous crashes and sprints, as mastered by Caleb Ewan
nniff wrote:
But if they knew how fast we were riding, they wouldn’t know where we were.
brooksby wrote:
Hence the prevalence of SMIDSY!
Driver: “I see them all the
Driver: “I see them all the time, they’re all over the road…” followed by some detailed and often sweary description – could be “tour-de-france wannabe”, “black-clothed drug-dealing hoodie”, “male,
paleday-glo yellow and stale” etc.Also driver: “I didn’t see them”.
Driver: Sees you from far
Driver: Sees you from far enough away to slow down, wind down the window and work out what they are going to yell at you.
Driver: I can’t see you.
Clem Fandango wrote:
Yeah that argument always amuses me that somehow cyclists should be held to the speed limits that motorists ignore.
One of my regular ride routes has two sections where I can, and most likely do exceed the speed limit. One in a 30 zone and one in a 20 zone. And barely a ride goes by when I don’t get overtaken by vehicles in one or both of those sections.
Just before I get home I have
Just before I get home I have a slight downhill which runs into a short bike lane at a roundabout.
On a good day I can hit about 32mph. I can’ guarantee I will get overtaken (always a MGIF at at least 5mph faster than I am doing, so the drivers feel compelled to do about 40mph approaching a junction passing another side turning and other hazards) and then the game is to see whether they cut the bike lane on the roundabout as I re-pass them in the short queue they have joined.
It’s the famous Schrodinger’s
It’s the famous Schrodinger’s cyclist principle innit! A h, read other posts first Simon !
I’ve managed to retrain
I’ve managed to retrain myself to drive at 20mph where those limits apply, and frequently find mysef being tailgated and overtaken. Some of the roads with 20mph limits may be safe to drive at 30mph, but the speed limit is the speed limit. Some of the roads with the new 20mph limit definitely need it.
Twice recently I have
Twice recently I have experienced road rage for driving at the 30mph limit. In the first instance the guy drove the wrong side of a roundabout to overtake and in the second the guy roared past while giving me the bird only to pull in at a burger place about 300 metres further on!
If you *really* want to annoy
If you *really* want to annoy other motorists … When in your car, stick to temporary speed limits – either from gantry signs or road works when on motorways or dual carriageways.
The responses can be fanatical, especially if lanes are closed and they can’t get by you.
Oldfatgit wrote:
Fixed it 😀
OldRidgeback wrote:
Indeed. Had two incidents in the last couple of days, one on the bike and one in the car (both in 40mph limits). The incident on the bike I had a car overtake me and get up to 40mph, only for me and the first car to be overtaken by a car that was going somewhere over 70mph (probably closer to 100mph – boy racer red lining their car in 1st/2nd/3rd gears).
The incident in the car, was sat at 40mph with speed limiter on…. and the car behind was right on my bumper waiting for a gap in oncoming traffic to overtake, when that wasn’t forthcoming they overtook on a hatched area/right turn lane. I was able to do some speed calculations thanks to relatively straight roads. From the point I was overtaken they managed to travel 1 mile (distance to a roundabout) in 43 seconds so quick maths puts their average speed in a 40 zone at 83 mph over that 1 mile
But what about that cyclist I
But what about that cyclist I saw once ride on a pavement? Have you considered how that renders all drivers faultless in all situations?
Patrick9-32 wrote:
I know how careless of me to forget that a cyclist on the pavement is far more likely to kill a pedestrian than cars doing more than twice the posted 40mph limit,
I can’t believe I thought a car carrying more than 250 times the kinetic energy of a 100kg rider travelling at 20mph…… is so much less dangerous than a bike on the pavement.
I’ve found that, when I do
I’ve found that, when I do drive (infrequently and in someone else’s vehicle, as I don’t own a car anymore) I am a lot more conscious of speed limits and road rules, compared to before I took up cycling. I think being a vulnerable road user makes one even more aware of why road rules need to be followed; I reckon all drivers should have a ‘cycling experience’ test before completing their practical driving test!
I was thinking about the
I was thinking about the whole bell and reflectors thing on my way home the other day after yet another giant car passed me within a foot, what are the current rules.. (have they changed recently?) and whatever those rules are, are there instances which anyone is aware of where insurers have not agreed liability if those rules are not adheared to?
I don’t have reflectors on my bike and I’m sure I don’t have a bell.
https://www.cyclinguk.org
https://www.cyclinguk.org/lighting-regulations
Red rear reflector and amber pedal reflectors are required.
I think a bike has to be sold with a bell, but there’s no obligation to keep it on the bike once it is your bike…
The last 2 bikes I had did
The last 2 bikes I had did not come with a rear reflector although they both offered me a bell !
I had to find a reflector to fit on the rear rack.
My bikes have both got racks,
My bikes have both got racks, and both have bolted-on German-made rear lights which also act as reflectors.
There is no legal requirement
There is no legal requirement to have a bell on a bike. There is a requirement to have a red rear and amber pedal reflectors after dark.
Oddly there is a requirement for all new bikes sold to be fitted with bells and reflectors including a white front reflector, but those can be removed immediately.
I believe there have been cases where insurers have refused or reduced payouts as a result of “contributory negligence” but I think it’s well established that there does have to be a clear link between the “negligence” and the incident/injury occuring (or the degree of the injury/damage). So if you’re cycling at night without any lights or reflectives and someone drives into you, then there might be some contributory negligence. But if somone drives into the back of you and you had forgotten your front light (but still had rear lights and reflectors) then I wouldn’t have thought there would be a sucessful argument for contributory negligence. Note that “negligence” does not only refer to specific legal requirements, but can also apply to Highway Code guidance. Relevant post here: https://www.cyclinguk.org/cycle/contributory-negligence
OnYerBike wrote:
I think the rules are trying to be helpful but are a mess. I’m breaking the law at night on my recumbent because even if I had pedal reflectors they would not be visible from the rear which I believe is required (Cycling UK link to legislation and have a good summary). Quite apart from the fact that I’m in the way they’d be oriented vertically.
I’m a fan of dynamo lights and luckily they’re legit – even if they’ve gone out while stopped at lights. Most come with a “standlight” feature so at least the back should stay lit for a couple of minutes. I think as we move towards mass cycling we’ll see these come in for most “transport” bikes. When you buy a car you don’t then buy separate lights (or indeed a lock, mudguards…)
It’s unlikely that dynamos
It’s unlikely that dynamos will become common on “transport” bikes because they add too much to the cost.
My hybrid/city bike came with most of the features you’d want for a “transport” bike – hub gears, belt drive, hydraulic discs, mudguards… – and I added a rack fairly cheaply.
But upgrading to a dynamo is expensive. My front hub failed after some water ingress; a like for like Shimano replacement is £30, a Shimano dynamo (aboutt he cheapest option) is around £150 (plus about the same again for lights). Better quality dynamos are more expensive. I went with a Son28 – total cost including lights and wheelbuilding was over £500 – that’s almost 50% on top of the cost of the bike and it pretty much doubles the cost of most commuter hybrids.
Just had a look on
Just had a look on DutchBikeBits: Busch und Muller secula plus LED rear light €19.36 and AXA HR-Traction Dynamo €26.02.
So you just need to pay a few quid to get those shipped here… oh, no, can’t do that any more… (To be specific in this case because the seller’s cancelled the UK for cancelling Europe).
Of course Decathlon have bikes – that you and I probably wouldn’t choose, but are at least “complete” with rack, mudguards and dynamo lights – for 250 quid right now.
It’s the market e.g. volume of demand plus what people have been lead to expect. Over the water lots of “non-cyclists” are buying perfectly adequate transport bikes for cheaper money. That’s because the largest segment of the market is “need a bike to make regular casual trips from a to b”. Although as in any endeavour as fashions change what people are sold will change too e.g. now in the Netherlands (windy but mostly flat) people are buying lots of eBikes.
I totally agree that the road conditions / the culture etc. in the UK tend to favour the cyclists and bikes we get e.g. bikes for roadies (or other “serious about my hobby” types), faster bikes for “defensive” commuting or cheap mountain-lookin’-bikes.
You and I likely will still
You and I likely will still be outliers even if mass cycling occurs in the UK. If everyone doesn’t got down the ebike or escooter route most will get cheaper but adequate “pootlers” for their 1-3 mile trips. Dynamos and lights certainly add cost but the kit that you’ve got is definitely not “entry level”.
Personally I think having lights on the bike all the time and avoiding batteries is both more convenient and better for the environment. For my own bikes I inherited a SON on the recumbent, got someone to build me a Shimano one in a wheel for the Dawes Galaxy and bought another wheel with a Sturmey Archer X-FDD (great hub – anchor-heavy but a no-maintenance solution) in an effort to make another frame into a “dutch bike”.
When I need to replace the Dawes (getting bust now) if I get an “around town” bike I’d probably either go full Dutch or get something like yours but with a bottle dynamo. I believe they’re perfectly adequate these days as long as you’re not doing countryside all-nighters. (For which see the recumbent).
As with anything, the price
As with anything, the price would come down massively if they were built in large numbers, we’re just not at the tipping point yet.
Yeah, I agree the regulations
Yeah, I agree the regulations are probably well intended but poorly implemented. As noted in the Cycling UK article you link, the vast majority of the lights on the market today have not been formally tested and marked to meet BS6102/3 and so are not officially “approved” lights. Although dynamo lights are often StVZO approved which I believe would then be approved as “an equivalent EC standard”.
That said, I’ve never heard of anyone getting stopped by the police, let alone charged with an offence, for failing to meet every last letter of the law so long as you generally make yourself visible (e.g. as a minimum a good white front light and a good red rear light).
How does one meet the “MUST”
How does one meet the “MUST” requirement of the Highway Code for amber pedal reflectors at night when no road bike pedals (except basic flats) ever include reflectors?
You can get flat one side/
You can get flat one side/ mtb cleat the other which take reflectors (ktache or sriracha might have these).
I just have retro reflective ankle bands which are 360 and more effective plus a minimum of 3 rear lights.
See my comment below about
See my comment below about physical impossibility. Which would presumably also apply to many handcyclists. I really doubt it’ll ever matter in my case (or if it does it’s too late for me) but I’d briefly considered some dummy legal pedals stuck over the back wheel…
I agree that having something moving relative to the bike is a help in drawing a driver’s visual attention. Maybe the UCI could atone for their sin in banning recumbents by assisting with a definition of what bikes this rule should have to apply to…
get some of these https:/
get some of these https://road.cc/content/review/shimano-xt-pd-t8000-trekking-pedals-284503
You can get SPD-SL compatible
You can get SPD-SL compatible reflectors e.g. https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/pedals-cleats/shimano-105-spdsl-pd5800-smpd65-reflector-unit-y40r98110/
You can get some fairly decent pedals with integrated reflectors, such as the PD-T8000 Awavey has linked to.
Or you accept that if you ride after dark without amber pedal reflectors you are breaking the letter of the law, and you can decide for yourself if you are comfortable with that or not.
Skittler wrote:
Get home before sundown.
mdavidford wrote:
to be fair he has a 30/60 minute window after sunset before lighting up time kicks in.
giff77 wrote:
I thought the law on bicycle lighting/reflectors applies between sunset and sunrise.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pedal-cycles-lighting/pedal-cycles-lighting#obligatory-lighting-and-reflectors
Yeah. It’s a bit of a grey
Yeah. It’s a bit of a grey one. They say fitted. Not used. I left for work this morning at 4.30am. (30 min before sunrise) There was no need for using my lights. But I did simply out of habit as I use my lights every time I’m out as I simply don’t trust the feckers behind the wheel of a car at any given time. Interestingly the other day it was so overcast at 2pm that there was a greater need for lights than there was at 4.30 am
giff77 wrote:
Good luck arguing that one before the beak. The law says lights have to be fitted, clean, in working order, visible, … and kept lit and unobscured between sunset and sunrise.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regulation/24
[I]Requirements about the use of front and rear position lamps, rear registration plate lamps, side marker lamps and end-outline marker lamps
24.—(1) Save as provided in paragraphs (5) and (9), no person shall–
(a)use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road any vehicle which is in motion–
[B](i)between sunset and sunrise, [/b]or
(ii)in seriously reduced visibility between sunrise and sunset; or
(b)allow to remain at rest, or cause or permit to be allowed to remain at rest, on a road any vehicle between sunset and sunrise
unless every front position lamp, rear position lamp, rear registration plate lamp, side marker lamp and end-outline marker lamp with which the vehicle is required by these Regulations to be fitted is [b]kept lit and unobscured.[/b]
[/i]
(Which seems to imply that the rest of the time the only relaxation is regarding them being lit – so they’d still need to be fitted and in working order?)
But we don’t have rear
But we don’t have rear registration plates, yet…
Let alone lamps to light them.
ktache wrote:
…neither do the Regulations say that we do.
You can get Shimano SPDs that
You can get Shimano SPDs that include reflectors. You can also get clip on reflectors for SPDs. There are some companies that sell reflective strips fo your pedals if you insist on cleats.
I use the SPDs for commuting in the dark. My road shoes I’ve reflective tape on the heels so if caught out in dark I’ve something that shows movement. My tights and knee warmers also have reflective decals. All my bikes also have rear reflectors somewhere as well as tape on the guards. A bit OTT but I don’t give the b*****s any excuse
The reflectors pretty much are a fail safe if your lights fail and I think the police aren’t too bothered as long as there’s something reflective static and moving. Some solicitor may try to use the lack of them as contributory negligence in the event of a collision.
I know that insurance / civil
I know that insurance / civil matters are not the same as criminal. The sad thing is the latter regularly seems to disregard the visual – or at least demand an impossibly high standard of proof that motorists have seen people. “I didn’t see them” should not be a defense for dangerous or careless.
The lights & reflectors &
The lights & reflectors & bell point is one of those things which varies across borders, which is problematic as it’s so easy for bikes to be sold across borders.
Maybe less problematic for the road.cc demographic because it rarely seems to be enforced and most riders exercise common sense, but many cities nowadays seems to be full of people on 10-year-old MTBs weaving through traffic after dark to deliver kebabs, with no lights/reflectors, and I worry that sooner or later they’ll get squashed by a van driver who isn’t paying enough attention.
A few years ago I bought a nice bike from a German brand via a French retailer, and it came with the most catastrophically awful front light (yes, worse than those old Ever Readies); I think it had a 0.0001W LED powered by a CR2032. I assume it was just for some compliance checkbox in France or Germany, and every customer would either remove it or replace it with their own preferred light.
Latest vid from ashley neal
Latest vid from ashley neal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA-WdjQ6bfc
Mostly ok although he seems against filtering despite it being specifically mentioned from both the cyclist’s and driver’s perspective in the HC.
The most alarming bit was where he says
“don’t forget you are hard enough to see at any time”
Wow – how is it I have no problems seeing cyclists?
Why are instructors not practising observation and training learners in it?
Does this apply to checking for pedestrians or is it just other cars drivers have to look out for ?
The ironic thing was that the clip showed the cyclist with a flashing front light that was visible for several hundred metres behind.
Talks about the cyclist
Talks about the filtering cyclist going through the green traffic light ‘putting himself in danger’ at the 1:00 mark whilst he proceeds to amber gamble.
From a previous video, the
From a previous video, the risk of being rear ended is considered higher than proceeding on amber.
Yes but he highlighted the
Yes but he highlighted the learner driver should have stopped at the lights, but was distracted by the cyclist appearing on their left, so their focus became avoid the cyclist, not what are the lights doing.
Avoid the cyclist? The
Avoid the cyclist? The cyclist literally cleared the side of the car and was in front of the car well before the light even changed.
remember they are a learner
remember they are a learner driver, a driver under tuition, they are inexperienced, he explains in the video how stuff like that impacts them more & shifts their focus, yes the cyclist gets clear of the car, for all of the 5 secs a normal driver would have taken to just floor it and get back in front of them,and no doubt we’d be complaining about MGIF from a cycling dash cam then, but the learner is now thinking about that overtake move and misses the lights, and maybe even misses a mirror check when they move to the right because all of a sudden theres alot going on and they arent experienced enough to handle it all properly yet.
but it was dumb move by the cyclist there imo, they had plenty of time to assess the situation on their approach and should have coasted on to the back of the traffic flow.
I thought the comment about
I thought the comment about learners was fair enough and I wouldn’t general filter in those situations regardless.
And then blames cyclist for
And then blames cyclist for it.
Exactly. That part of the
Exactly. That part of the video really should have been an explaination to his students of the importance of why you check your mirrors and blind spot before moving, whether you agree with the fact that filtering traffic should be there or not.
Blaming the cyclist for being a ‘distraction’ as opposed to bona fide traffic is irresponsible.
but none of those examples he
but none of those examples he highlighted were particularly smart filtering by any of the cyclists, if you have to ride in between the lines at the edge of the road, theres probably not enough space to filter, especially at a traffic light junction with traffic likely to move off at any moment the lights change, slotting behind the learner would have been the more sensible option.
the 2nd guy, yeah that is risky to do that on a road that bends around and theres no real gaps, the 2nd time they did it I dont think they planned to do it but the car suddenly stopping in front of them, pops them out around them there and then its well Im here now I might as well get ahead of this red car who is a bit brake happy, but its risky again theres not enough gap to filter safely with a bus coming towards you like that.
the 3rd guy, well you will just get knocked off if you filter like that, there maybe a gap this time, but the car at the front of the queue is clearly going left and will have to take an exaggerated exit line to avoid hitting you assuming theyve seen you and assuming that line then doesnt conflict with oncoming traffic , if the cyclist had been at the front, and the car pulled alongside we’d all be moaning about the driver putting the cyclist at risk and not overtaking at junctions , so its fair to say dont ride into gaps that put you at that risk like that.
the only gripe I had was about the “don’t forget you are hard enough to see at any time” line
I did start my comment with
I did start my comment with ‘mostly ok’. The thing was he didn’t acknowledge filtering as legitmate nor the requirement from the HC on motorists to look out for this.
The hard enough to see was appalling.
Absolutely, sorry, I wasnt
Absolutely, sorry, I wasnt being critical of your take, I find myself with Ashleys videos often agreeing with the overall points he makes,just not in the way its put together on video.
and I’d totally agree some examples of good filtering to acknowledge it’s a legitimate thing motorists need to handle would have made a better video, and definitely editing out that we cant see you line.
I don’t have a problem with
I don’t have a problem with him calling out bad cycling, just that he tries to equate it with bad driving. I also fear there is worse to come…
depends what his analysis is,
depends what his analysis is, and certainly stats to back it up could be an interesting angle, and the overall message he wants to get across.
Theres definitely a case that in some situations and weve seen this on NMOTD occasionally riders can be the authors of their own downfalls. I’ve certainly seen people crash their bikes completely self inflicted because they didnt read the conditions or were too confident in their abilities, but that’s the human condition it’s not particularly a cyclist thing.
But if the video is just hey admit you arent all perfect cyclists all the time, I’d not be too unhappy with that.
The astonishment at 1,100
The astonishment at 1,100 drivers exceeding the 20mph speed limit is hardly warranted; anywhere in the UK would get the same result. Drivers think that speed limits only apply to cyclists.
The average speed cameras on
The average speed cameras on the A12 between East Bergholt and Stratford St Mary processed nearly 12,000 speeding offences in 2020 alone, it’s done nearly 2000 in the first 3 months of this year. The limit is set to 70mph.
The issue is that modern cars
The issue is that modern cars at 70mph feel like cars from 30 years ago at 40mph. The only sensible solution is to ban windscreens, that way drivers would be aware of how fast they are going…..
Agree with that. My old 1l
Agree with that. My old 1l with 4 gears used to let me know I was doing 70 on noise alone. Now with 6 gears even if the small cars, turbos to give a “performance boost” on 1.2l engines, and loads of sound proofing, most people could easily be doing 90 and not realising it. (especially with loads of others also doing it so judging on other cars speed is also out).
AlsoSomniloquism wrote:
— AlsoSomniloquismIsn’t that big dial with numbers around it in the middle of the dashboard a bit of a clue?
They don’t bother looking
They don’t bother looking there.
It’s a shame they dont detail
It’s a shame they dont detail the range of speeds recorded, I’d be less worried about lots of drivers hitting 23mph, I know chance would be a fine thing if that was all they were doing, than the real nutcases who hit 30, 40, 50 even 60 in these zones.
I was going downhill at 25-27
I was going downhill at 25-27 in a 20 when passed by car (wide pass, shame on the speed). I slowed to 20/21. They didn’t bother doing that and continued at above 30 for length of the zone even setting off one of those “friendly warning” signs.
Why has RideLondon got a race
Why has RideLondon got a race director when they stated earlier in the week “RideLondon-Essex 100 is not a race”?
Clowns
https://twitter.com/RideLondon/status/1526520760222752769
for the Ride London Classique
for the Ride London Classique, which is a race, but as its womens cycling it will of course get no coverage, hence why no-ones heard anything about it.
Looks like the BBC will be
Looks like the BBC will be showing the Sunday stage on BBC Two. No coverage of the other days. Which is annoying as the Sunday is just the “crit”
GCN+ is probably the best place to look, but I don;t subscribe so won’t get to see much of the race.
GCN+ also only showing the
GCN+ also only showing the crit too, but its overall coverage publicity, it’s a WWT event yet is barely being noticed that it’s even taking place, then just copy paste repeat for the Womens Tour.
Just like all the motorists
Just like all the motorists pulled over for faulty front, rear, brake, indicator lights then.
Oh hang on a minute……..
One day it may dawn on
One day it may dawn on drivers that it is the appalling standard of driving that is causing speed limits to be continually lowered.
The same with ever-increasing use of double white lines as numerous motorists demonstrate that they are incapable of judging how to overtake safely when it was previously allowed. Most traffic restrictions that councils and the HA bring in are evidence based (if only they’d apply some evidence to their approaches to cycle lane design).
On the Ride London slow
On the Ride London slow motion car crash:
“where’s the very high £90 entry cost been spent???”
Well, they have to buy bubbly for the organiser’s shareholders’ meeting somehow…
brooksby wrote:
And employ someone to open it for them so they don’t take their eyes out.
Anyway, I thought they’d got rid of the slow motion car now?
To me ‘Park the Car’
To me ‘Park the Car’
means drive the car then park it, it doesn’t say don’t use the car or ditch the car or anything of the sort.