“Are you kidding?”: Jeremy Vine calls out much-criticised police advice to cyclists; Relieved RideLondon cyclists celebrate no 22mph safety car; Giro stage 11; Pre-race trampolining; Dowsett called on for Ironman record; Room 101 + more on the live blog

43 thoughts on ““Are you kidding?”: Jeremy Vine calls out much-criticised police advice to cyclists; Relieved RideLondon cyclists celebrate no 22mph safety car; Giro stage 11; Pre-race trampolining; Dowsett called on for Ironman record; Room 101 + more on the live blog”

1. You pay an entry, you pin on

   You pay an entry, you pin on a number and you ride at a pace dictated by conditions or other participants (competitors). So it is a race, then?

   In which case why doesn’t this event have to abide by the Cycle racing on the Highways regulations? Just like proper races do.

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   • Can you expand your second

     Can you expand your second paragraph for non racers ?

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   • Velovoyeur wrote:

     You pay an entry, you pin on a number and you ride at a pace dictated by conditions or other participants (competitors). So it is a race, then?

     — Velovoyeur

     Well, no, for a couple of reasons.

     Firstly, that’s not what they said – they made no mention of competitors, or even other participants; they said ‘what is happening on the road’. That could mean (e.g.) whether they’ve managed to put closures in place on the road ahead, rather than what are participants doing behind them.

     Secondly, that’s not the definition of a race. A race implies some degree of competition between participants, not just people trying to do their own best performance. [Note that the introduction of ‘competitors’ was your own – RideLondon don’t refer to anything to do with ‘competition’.]

     In which case why doesn’t this event have to abide by the Cycle racing on the Highways regulations? Just like proper races do.

     — Velovoyeur

     I’m not familiar with it, but at a glance it appears to be aimed at races on open roads. I would imagine that, even if the event was to be classed as a ‘race’, the road closures would involve a derogation from the regulations, just as they would from other traffic rules.

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     • mdavidford wrote:

       A race implies some degree of competition between participants, not just people trying to do their own best performance.

       — mdavidford

       A time trial then? *Ducks behind motoring helmet*

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       • chrisonatrike wrote:

         A race implies some degree of competition between participants, not just people trying to do their own best performance.

         — chrisonatrike

         A time trial then? *Ducks behind motoring helmet*

         — mdavidford

         A time trial is still a competition between participants.

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         • Well it’s a spectrum isn’t it

           Well it’s a spectrum isn’t it?  Yep – this isn’t a time trial.  I also disagreed with the “stop those selfish dangerous scorchers at all costs” types.  I think goals of “It was a great ride” and “I finished!” and “I got my time down to x” can co-exist (without the strange “safety” car).

           I’m sure quite a few want to finish in the top x% or go faster than some Nigel though.  So there will be competition.

         • chrisonatrike wrote:

           faster than some Nigel

           — chrisonatrike

           Nigel won’t be riding it – he only ever rides alone.

2. Very disappointing tweet by

   Very disappointing tweet by Merseyside (?) Police

   Many cyclists can exceed urban speed limits, yet brakes on pedal cycles can be weak. Think, if a child or elderly person were to unexpectedly step into your path, could you stop in time? Cycle like you drive, with curtesy, care and within the law #FatalFour pic.twitter.com/WdELsk9xpn

   — Roads Policing Unit (@MerPolTraffic) May 18, 2022

   Many cyclists can exceed urban speed limits, yet brakes on pedal cycles can be weak. Think, if a child or elderly person were to unexpectedly step into your path, could you stop in time? Cycle like you drive, with curtesy, care and within the law #FatalFour

    

   Mr Bad Dad 1975

   Pretty certain that I work on defective vehicles everyday. Illegal tyres Worn out brakes. Lights not working. Suspension defective. Steering defective. Body damage, sharp edges. Seatbelt defective. Airbag warning lights on. Engine warning lights on. Emission lights on. Every day.

    

    

   Cycle like you drive?

   road.cc https://road.cc/content/forum/car-crashes-building-please-post-your-local-news-stories-276441

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   • I think trying to curtsey to

     I think trying to curtsey to everyone I pass is going to make my cycling more dangerous, not less.

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     • What would Curtis E Bear do..
       What would Curtis E Bear do..

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   • Of course it’s the cyclists

     Of course it’s the cyclists that are the problem on urban roads, not drivers. Only *checks most recent DfT speed compliance report* 50% of drivers exceed the speed limit on 30mph/urban streets in the day and a miniscule 67% of them do it at night.

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   • When Merseyside Police say

     When Merseyside Police say “Cycle within the law” I assume they are aware that “the law” states (most) speed limits only apply to motor vehicles and not to bicycles?

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     • But, broken record here again
       But, broken record here again I know, reckless/careless/dangerous cycling, section 28-30 of the RTA, is a real thing in law. The CPS/police might be as adverse to using it as careless driving, but I think you would have a hard time in a court defending yourself riding at speeds quicker than any posted vehicle limit if that charge was brought against you.

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       • Awavey wrote:

         But, broken record here again I know, reckless/careless/dangerous cycling, section 28-30 of the RTA, is a real thing in law. The CPS/police might be as adverse to using it as careless driving, but I think you would have a hard time in a court defending yourself riding at speeds quicker than any posted vehicle limit if that charge was brought against you.

         — Awavey

         But since the posted speed limit doesn’t legally apply to cyclists, wouldn’t they have to show that you were riding recklessly/carelessly/dangerously (regardless of the speed you were riding at)?

         Simply riding at 25mph (downhill – memo to Ride London) in a 20mph limit is not in and of itself reckless/careless/dangerous…

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         • The context would the be key
           The context would the be key to it, but it’s the catch all, same deal really as with that speeding app for drivers you just have to show it’s not how a careful considerate rider/driver would behave, I just think its simpler to ride like the limits do apply and then it removes the question.

       • I think you would have a hard

         I think you would have a hard time in a court defending yourself riding at speeds quicker than any posted vehicle limit 

         No you wouldn’t. As far as the police are concerned, cyclists are always travelling at less than 10 mph. That’s what they use to excuse this, and they’re completely uninterested in the video that shows that you’re obviously travelling at much more than 10 mph. They refuse to accept any evidence of a cyclist’s speed, so unless they actually catch you in a speed trap, you’re in the clear

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       • You’re not wrong, but my main

         You’re not wrong, but my main point was that the clear implication of that tweet was that exceeding the speed limit is ipso facto outwith the law, which is not the case, and therefore inappropriate advice coming from the police. 

         Yes, there are situations when inappropriate speed could no doubt form part of a careless/dangerous cycling charge. But I don’t think a careless cycling charge would stick purely because you were caught on a speed camera exceeding the limit for motor vehicles – I do think there would have to be something much more substantial to demonstrate the speed was inappropriate for the conditions (and indeed speed could be considered inappropriate even if less than the speed limit).

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         • Yep totally agreed, i dont
           Yep totally agreed, i dont think a speed camera purely by itself would be of concern, it’s just we easily fall into that habit that speed limits only apply to motor vehicles, but riding at 25mph past a school 20mph zone at school home time would be a classic example of careless cycling with inappropriate speed and twitter isnt very good at getting those nuances like that across and its probably just some poor intern told to push a set of bullet points out as a message.

   • Quote:

      Think, if a child or elderly person were to unexpectedly step into your path, could you stop in time?

     I never realised that reaction times and stopping distances are different depending on the age group of a hazard in one’s path. Blatant attempt to reinforce the “cyclists are a danger to the most vulnerable people” narrative so beloved of velociphobes* everywhere.

     *Just made that up, I rather like it. ETA dammit, Google reveals someone else had thought of it already…

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     • Actually that was one of the
       Actually that was one of the questions posed on my driving test, the answer is children/elderly are less able to judge speeds of approaching vehicles, so you are supposed to take into consideration that they might step out in front of you by mistake, which means you need to be prepared to stop at all times and not assume theyll just stay where they are on the pavement. But it applies equally to drivers so not sure why their twitter account are singling out cyclists.

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   • I’d love to know who these

     I’d love to know who these “many cyclists” are? I raced last night at Goodwood. We were thrashing it (closed roads) and the 3rd cat race averaged 43 km/hr (~27mph) and the elite race averaged ~46 km/hr (~29mph). Apologies I’m unsure how fast the women’s or 4th cat race was (but as they were lapped I’m confident it was slower than the 3rd cat and elite race).  

     I’m pretty certain average Joe and Josephine would have been spat pretty quickly. 

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     • It’s possible the police are

       It’s possible the police are referring to 20mph limits. Given the relationship between power and speed, going at 20mph requires far less effort than 27mph (this page, with the default assumptions, suggests 20mph requires 180W while 27mph requires 403W). Not to mention with a decent hill you can top 20mph just coasting. 

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   • https://twitter.com/RoadPeace

     It's day 3 of the RoadPeace #AndyCoxChallenge.

     Today's theme – reporting road crime and the widespread use of dashcams on UK roads. A reminder to drivers to always 'drive like you're being filmed'.#HowFarWillYouGo#TalkAboutRoadDeath pic.twitter.com/RctcxTZhrZ

     — RoadPeace (@RoadPeace) May 18, 2022

     RoadPeace

     Today’s theme – reporting road crime and the widespread use of dashcams on UK roads. A reminder to drivers to always ‘drive like you’re being filmed’.

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   • You don’t even need to go

     You don’t even need to go further than their own tweets just for today – driver who blew 177 – legal limit 35 – amazed they were still conscious. Parent with no licence driving unrestrained children, expired MOT and no driving licence, “a hat-trick” of uninsured drivers, driver doing 103mph – the irony has blown my irony detector.

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3. Good luck to Brownlee and his

   Good luck to Brownlee and his eminent pace-setters! The Brownlee brothers are like Cav- they’ve been the source of much happiness and pride for us over the years and they don’t have to win anything else to secure their much-loved status, but we still hope they do.

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4. Cycle like you drive.. what

   Cycle like you drive.. what fuckwitery is this, who let ‘Gene Hunt’s special squad’ on twitter?

   In other news.. here’s an awesome ‘old’ video I saw in the same thread.. about cars parking illegally in Lithuania – https://twitter.com/DavidZipper/status/1439595189534855172?s=20&t=q7JhI6npFiCrUj-5ZVLBQw

   Less Gene, more tanks!

   kthxbai

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   • Someone needs to tweet them a
     Someone needs to tweet them a few of the choice pictures from the “Car crashes into building thread”.

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     • Or the ‘Audis in Houses’ blog

       Or the ‘Audis in Houses’ blog

       https://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2015/12/26/audis-in-houses/amp/

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   • If they honestly want me to

     If they honestly want me to adjust my standard of cycling to match the standard of driving I encounter every day, I think I’m going to have to start by getting a blindfold.

     People are jut spamming their Twitter with pictures of crashed cars and KSI headlines and the hashtag #CycleLikeYouDrive.

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5. “Cycle like you drive, with

   “Cycle like you drive, with curtesy, care and within the law”

   If cyclists rode as badly as drivers drive, they would ignore the law, speed limits, vulnerable road users etc, and pedestrian deaths would rise.  The implication that drivers drive within the law is so utterly farcical that it’s hard to believe that it was written by a police officer.

   It clearly shows a complete lack of perspective, degree of risk and anti-cycling, pro-car bias; rather disturbing from people supposed to be keeping the vulnerable safe.  Even more so given the recent changes to the HC; maybe they haven’t reached Merseyside yet.

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   • Fun to see #cyclelikeyoudrive

     Fun to see #cyclelikeyoudrive being added to all of the twitter accounts posts of drivers doing horrifically dangerous things though. 

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     • ASP

        

       ASP Roads Policing

       

       

        

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       • hirsute wrote:

         ASP Roads Policing

         

         

         — hirsute

         I’m sure someone will be along soon to explain how that’s the cyclist’s fault, how they should have backed off and doffed their cap, or something…  

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         • brooksby wrote:

           I’m sure someone will be along soon to explain how that’s the cyclist’s fault, how they should have backed off and doffed their cap, or something…  

           — brooksbyAnother reason not to wear a helmet; you can’t doff your cap.  I’m pretty sure that all the NMOTD cyclists wore a helmet; case proved.

   • I have a theory that, the

     I have a theory that, the poor cyclists that you see, probably drive in the same way. If a person is an idiot, they behave that way whether they drive, or cycle.

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     • I cycle like far more of a

       I cycle like far more of a knobhead than I drive. Putting myself at risk on the bike is one thing but putting others at risk in the car is something I try to avoid. 

       Obviously, wherever possible I try to avoid doing things on the bike that put others at risk. 

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     • Velophaart_95 wrote:

       I have a theory that, the poor cyclists that you see, probably drive in the same way. If a person is an idiot, they behave that way whether they drive, or cycle.

       — Velophaart_95

       It is likely that they drive worse, as on a bike they have some sense of vulnerability, which tempers their risk taking somewhat.  In a car with air bags, seat belts and impact protection, they don’t feel so vulnerable.

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6. https://www.bournemouthecho
   https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/20138199.cyclist-involved-four-incidents-week-says-drivers-need-careful/

   First 2 clear driver errors and careless. Third one was a bit of nothing.
   Comments are awful and show a lack of basic knowledge of road markings and how to drive.
   A number were unable to understand how the helmet cam was moving, so claimed the cyclist was wobbling all over the place !
   None could judge his speed either !!

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   • OMG; those comments!

     OMG; those comments!

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     • My favourite was the one

       My favourite was the one claiming that the cyclist had no reason to be angry because the woman (who was blasting across the cycle lane without looking – and presumably intended to do the same to the pavement) said sorry. If he’d have gotten to that gap a second earlier, he’d have been led on the pavement with two broken legs. Why is it unreasonable to be angry?

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7. Why Do So Many News Articles

   Why Do So Many News Articles About Crashes Feel Like They Were Written by a Car?

   https://slate.com/business/2022/05/media-car-crashes-washington-post-pedestrians.html

    

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   • brooksby wrote:

     Why Do So Many News Articles About Crashes Feel Like They Were Written by a Car?

     https://slate.com/business/2022/05/media-car-crashes-washington-post-pedestrians.html

     — brooksby

     The U.S. press is far worse than ours for driver bias, but then they’ve gone all-in on designing suburbs around mandatory car use.

     Incidentally, the U.S. has had a big spike (10% increase) in car-related deaths: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/05/us-road-deaths-increased-by-more-than-10-in-2021/

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8. Why bike lanes don’t make

   Why bike lanes don’t make traffic worse – video (Grauniad)

   https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/video/2022/may/17/why-new-bike-lanes-dont-cause-traffic-jams-video

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