A horse riding group has claimed ‘rude and abusive’ cyclists are damaging a national park.
The New Forest Equestrian Association (NFEA) said that while it wasn’t all cyclists causing problems it was receiving lots of reports of ‘unsavoury and dangerous’ exchanges between horse riders and cyclists.
The New Milton Advertiser and Lymington Times report that ‘groups of cyclists travelling at speed’ had allegedly been abusive to riders and walkers.
The NFEA said the situation has made serious accidents and narrow escapes ‘a common occurrence’ but said they thought the issues were based on ‘ignorance’ rather than ‘malice’.
Addressing the Verderers’ Court, the NFEA said it was ‘delighted’ the verderers had recently approached Forestry England about the substantial increase in cyclists.
The NFEA added: “This has created serious damage to the fabric of the forest and difficulties with other users due to the erosion of paths, and cyclists spooking horses both ridden and de-pastured.
“We have had reports of groups of cyclists travelling at speed, who have become rude and abusive to walkers and riders alike.”
The group also said that ‘almost silent’ e-bikes allowed riders to cover greater distances at higher speeds which they believe could damage the Forest paths.
However, the group were anxious to stress that the majority of cyclists caused no problems whatsoever and cycling clubs and event organisers were generally very cooperative.
It added: “Poor decisions and bad behaviour is usually the result of ignorance rather than malice.”
Look out for horses — here’s how to pass horse riders safely
The NFEA suggested that anyone hiring a bike should be given a leaflet with codes of practice, and permitted routes should be displayed on car park noticeboards.
It added: “There is no reason why cyclists and horses cannot both enjoy the Forest, but this requires cooperation, and a concerted effort to educate all users before some form of enforcement.”
John Ward, founder of Cycling in the New Forest, said that cycling at ‘sensible speeds’ helped ensure visitors could all enjoy the national park.
He added: “But, and it is a big but, there are a small but significant and increasing number of cyclists out on the Forest with chunky-tyred mountain bikes and now also e-bikes churning up the fragile habitat far away from designated routes.
“The excuse of ‘I did not know’ or ‘I’m lost’ is pretty poor. When I meet these cyclists, which is too often, and politely try to explain, they are usually local and reply with something like, ‘I know and I don’t care’.
“The occasional summer visitor who really does not know will thank you for telling them and take your directions to the nearest official track.”
The New Forest is one of the largest remaining areas of heathland and forest in Southern England, covering southwest Hampshire and southeast Wiltshire.
48 thoughts on “Horse riding group accuse cyclists of being ‘rude and aggressive’”
I don’t get how e-bikes are
I don’t get how e-bikes are causing more damage than any other bike or even a horse and surely big knobbly tyres spread the weight, so wouldn’t they be more benign than a thinner tyre?
I’m confused about this section though – do the culprits know or not?
I ride in the forest, and the
I ride in the forest, and the mud pits you find are caused by horse hooves. Wide and narrow tyres re-compact the mud. I alway pass horses slow and wide but I have come across a few (onroad and offroad) that are not properly trained and become skittish at the slightest noise or bright colours. Many of deeply rutted tracks are the 4×4 tracks. I also second the issue that many tracks are not connected leaving the choice of on road sections (no always short) or using shortcuts that maybe unoffical.
” Wide and narrow tyres re
” Wide and narrow tyres re-compact the mud. “, yes they do ad that’spart of the problem as where hoof prints causing standing water to pool, making areas of path muddy / boggy, tyre tracks channel water along paths causing a much wider erosion problem. Whataboutery won’t chsnge that
spen wrote:
Was it whataboutery though? Or was it someone who genuinely didn’t know that was more of an issues. I confess my first thought (as someone who doesn’t ride trails like that) was that surely the cutting up of the path by the hooves would be worse for the path than the tyres spreading the weight and recompacting the mud.
You have explained why that isn’t the case, and I am grateful. Maybe iturner2 was under the same misconception that I was.
It’s the forest – if
It’s the forest – if something is new then it’s to be mistrusted. They did the same when everyone switched from rim brakes to disc brakes*
They’re almost certainly using their experience of being approached by silent EVs on the roads – which I don’t like a cyclist either – and applying it to eMTBs.
Personally, as a cyclist, I’m not keen on some eMTB riders either, trail etiquette needs work and I’m fed up with being pressured by them on narrow sections where there’s nowhere easy to let them by.
*sorry
I’ve yet to meet or ride a
I’ve yet to meet or ride a bike that does more damage to a path than a horses hooves. Simple physics (weight/surface area) puts that one out the window. I suspect some of those “wide knobbly tyres” are illicit motorcycling.
I also don’t get how eBikes are a bigger issue, unless they are de-restricted. They still have chains and free wheels so are no more noisey or quiet than other bikes. The only speed advantage they have is on uphills.
Other than that it seems a minority of idiot on bikes seem to be a cause of most of the issues.
Seems like whilst this horsey group is well meaning they are as full of misconceptions as the Verderers themselves.
It does say in the article
It does say in the article that they claim these mtb and e-bikes are being ridden away from designated routes. While the numerous claims being made are seemingly contradictory and nonsensical in many ways, if there are people in areas they’re not supposed to be and damaging habitat in the process, then that should be dealt with appropriately.
Remove the emotive bits and really what they want is to keep people out of areas they shouldn’t be, and to respect trail etiquette and the rights of other trail users. Emotion just gets in the way and confuses them.
How do they know that the off
How do they know that the off-routes are being ridden? Is it reports from forestry workers or is it that the horse-riders are also going off-route?
Horse riders can ride where
Horse riders can ride where they like, cyclists are restricted to certain designated paths. Some car parks even have signs up “No forest cycling from this car park”. Unenforcable of course.
As with all interactions between different groups there’s only a minority that kick off on either side. I ride across the forest regularly and take the attitude of giving way to everything – horses, walkers, livestock, squirrels, etc.
I’ve had no issues with horse riders even if I’m riding somewhere I shouldn’t. That even applies when I get dog walkers and runners using the cyclist only singletrack at Moors Valley (which seems to be pretty much every morning), or families riding it the wrong way. Winding down the entitlement factor on all sides is the way forward. I ride offroad because it’s less stressful than road riding. Once the good weather returns I’ll be riding off to the middle of the forest with the laptop and working from there for the day, wood ants and all…
Thanks, I didn’t know that.
Thanks, I didn’t know that.
Most of my riding is on the road and I’m always happy to see a horse rider. I think they make drivers aware that there’s other road users and strangely, drivers seem to take a lot more care with passing horses (from what I’ve seen, anyhow).
I’ve never had any issue with horse riders – usually I call out “Hi” as I approach and wait if necessary so that I can pass them using the other lane.
Never give way to squirrels, though.
Quote:
Hitting a horse will cause more damage to the car then hitting a cyclist…. plus the judge will probably jail you for longer as their Tarquin or Cecelia rides horses as well.
Yep, drivers tend to be more
Yep, drivers tend to be more wary around horse riders. Personally I think it’s some forelock tugging cap doffing folk memory about encountering the lord of the manor.
But, having said that, if you read the reports from the Verderer’s Court there’s a healthy section in every report about the menace of drivers. Verderer’s are pretty much against everything other than Commoners interests…
Winding down the entitlement
Winding down the entitlement factor on all sides is the way forward
Agreed
it’s the description of
it’s the description of nearly silent e bikes that got to me, as if replacing legs with electric motors somehow makes them quieter.
I have always heard eMTBs
I have always heard eMTBs approaching from behind, they make a certain noise.
Even a slick tyred roadie will make a noise if you are listening.
My bicycles are not quiet by any means, try to make them quieter of course, but everything makes a noise.
Electric cars are proper noisy, especially those Teslas.
Only bikes that are near
Only bikes that are near silent have IGH and belt drive. But as for the cyclist haters their own whining would drown out that of an electric motor.
Not my gear 7 on my Rohloff.
Not my gear 7 on my Rohloff.
Yes I wondered about that.
Yes I wondered about that. Maybe they prefer the sound of heavy breathing from regular MTB riders?
The only research I’m aware
The only research I’m aware of about path erosion showed that boots did more harm than bicycle wheels, so it is inevitable that horses hooves will also do more damage. While they stress that they aren’t anti-cyclist, only ant-irresponsible cyclists, it might look better if they could actually get their facts right.
There was some research done
There was some research done in the US, can’t put my hands on it at themoment, it’s on one of many hard drives full of “stuff” I have lying around, that showed that soil compaction under tyre tracks was far greter than under footprints. This has implications for plant regenerationa nd water flow and erosion across the surfae. Fo r some reason most research into ped v bike v horse damge only concentrates on path width which is apoor indication of system damge.
380 – 1000 kg horse v 15-20
380 – 1000 kg horse v 15-20 kg bike
Obviously bike is far worse!
Not just that, all going
Not just that, all going through angled 2-3 small metal horse shoes.
I think part of it is that we (the knobblied tyred of us) leave tracks in already churned mud.
Evidence of us being there, not of making the mud in the first place.
Hmm.
Hmm.
This all sounds like a load of anti-cycling nonsense.
Most responsible cyclists would support taking care around horses but would get pretty rankled by the complaint about churning up the ground. As others have said, the horses cause far more damage.
Any cyclist who doesn’t slow down past a horse is just as likely to have little concern for other cyclists but this article just has cyclists as the bad guys.
A couple of cyclists, who appeared to be racing, once charged past my husband, myself and 8 year old on a bridleway – we’d stopped because there wasn’t space to safely pass another family with young children cycling in the other direction. The fast lot didn’t care – forced them out of the way too!
The biggest problem in the
The biggest problem in the New Forest with MTB riding is poor signage. There are paths everywhere ranging from wide hard packed gravel (official designated routes) to well-used tracks across heathland which don’t necessarily permit cycling. And then there are the tracks used by wildlife. There’s no joined up routes meaning inevitably you have to cut across heathland. I challenge anyone to ride any bike across un-pathed heathland – it’s all tuffets of heather, tussocks of grass, hidden boggy bits (called mires), gorse, and sand pits that would challenge the best CX rider.
Muddy tracks simply aren’t caused by MTB tyres, even fatties. It’s commoners’ vehicles, Foresty England loggers, and wildlife/livestock. I find it funny that the NFEA complain about a few bikers who are acting like dicks (and I’ve encountered them, and told them to stick to paths, particularly at this time of year because the nesting season has started) when there are regular pony roundups across open heath and point to point horse races which do far more damage than a few MTBers.
For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvZ57XMmCaA
(and, as a local, I have to say I have no issue with the horse racing, it’s part of the culture and, guess what, the forest recovers…)
58 ponies/horses killed in
58 ponies/horses killed in 2019 in the New Forest by vehicles. Zero by bicycles.
Yet these horse riders are complaining about bicyles.
Mind blown.
Shouldn’t be so surprised as this in a nut shell is all anti cycling propaganda/arguements everywhere.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/four-ponies-killed-new-forest-national-park-land-rover-car-crash-145626083.html
Zjtm231 wrote:
I guess that if cycles roamed wild in the New Forest then they too would suffer a high rate of attrition too.
You’ve reminded me of that
You’ve reminded me of that Charles de Lint story with a herd of wild bicycles roaming the streets of Newford…
I’d love to know what % of UK
I’d love to know what % of UK citizens ride horses compared to what % ride bicycles. I think that would be very interesting along with the demographics (such as household income)
Why, what’s any of that got
Why, what’s any of that got to do with it?
Well not much but as most of
Well not much but as most of them probably drive Chelsea tractors or the equivalent does make it look like the oiks are spoiling the party for the toffs…
Although I do agree that pillocks happen in all walks of life, look at the twat who pushed the other one in Bristol recently.
There’s pillocks in all walks
There’s pillocks in all walks of life, and I actually doubt there is any correlation between mode of motion and pillockedness. Meet these people down the pub and I doubt you’d know which was which.
But tribal instincts run deep. Even between fellow motorist, if nobody is letting me out of a side street and there’s cars waiting behind me, I start to feel common purpose with them and animosity towards the pillocks on the main road who won’t let me out. Of course once on the main road the us&them evaporates. Its not rational.
This is all about the house
This is all about the Horse riders, the Verderers, Walker etc getting cycling in the forest band again. It doesn’t matter if these incident have happened or not, they’d happily just make them up anyway to gride their axe.
I have some sympathy for “just don’t care attitude” of some cyclists. That the same attitude that walkers used to get access to land.
Think you have hit the nail
Think you have hit the nail on the head. These allegations are fabrications by people who don’t care about horses but just want everyone else out of “their” forest.
It’s complicated. The forest
It’s complicated. The forest is under massive pressure with every weekend at the moment being like an August BH, despite lockdown and weather. It’s the National Park closest to major conurbations and “outside is free” so it gets rammed. And its small and not designed for large numbers of visitors roaming freely over sensitive and easily damaged heathland. Loads of ground nesting birds, very delicate wetland areas, even the verges are an SSSI (which, currently, are ploughed to bits by illegal parking). It’s also a working landscape and increased visitor numbers are impacting on that. A number of horses have died this year from people feeding them apples, carrots, etc, and donkeys have started attacking people for food. Active control of visitor numbers is desirable. The problem is that they’re choosing to draw attention to a very low impact visitor activity (MTB) vs the real issue which is too many people arriving by car.
It sounds like a really shit
It sounds like a really shit place to live.
It’s lovely.
It’s lovely.
I’m half an hour from the coast, half an hour from Bournemouth one way, Southampton the other. There’s landscapes from river valleys to open heath to ancient woodland to chalk downland. On the whole, quiet roads everywhere, and, on the whole, people are generally friendly. Good local services. There are very few places in the world I’d prefer to live, and I’ve lived here or near here most of my life.
People seem to agree, 10 extra pupils in my son’s class since this time last year, properties are selling at pre-2008 speed, everyone new in our road has come from big cities. Hopefully that doesn’t change the ambience too much…
kil0ran wrote:
I suppose you just have to watch out for the wicker men..?
😉
Quote:
Genuinely interested if anyone has the stats on all these serious accidents caused by cyclists in the New Forest. Someone else has posted stats of Horses killed by drivers so they must be out there.
There is one incident from
There is one incident from about 5 years ago where a horse rider died after his horse was spooked by a cyclist, that’s it. In the last 20 years there have been two livestock animals killed by cyclists, from memory the last one was the best part of ten years ago.
On average, about 100 commoners animals are killed every year on forest roads, that doesn’t include deer, foxes, badgers, etc.
My son rides horses so I get to hang around stables a fair bit and inevitably I end up doing a bit of education on cycling vs horses. The advice is much the same as it is from the BHA – make yourself known to riders early, pass slow and wide, ideally under power if you’ve got a clicky-clacky hub. Having seen the power of a horse kicking out, trust me, you don’t want to be anywhere near them on a bike, you’re going to come off far worse than the horse.
Cyclists and horse riders have a lot in common, not least that they also get close passed. Perhaps not as much as cyclists do but most I’ve spoken too said it’s a weekly occurence. They also run hi vis and camera, and there’s plenty of footage of close passes on Youtube.
I suspect if you drew a Venn
I suspect if you drew a Venn diagram of “members of the New Forest Equestrian Association” and “members of the Verders Court”, you’d find there was a quite extensive overlap between the two circles…
It’s a very ancient club by
It’s a very ancient club by definition, because it’s made up of commoning families and elected/appointed local govt officials. They’re pretty much unelected and unaccountable and quite frankly obdurate bastards on anything that involves change, but they are passionate about preserving the New Forest against all comers – and that includes property developers and companies like Ineos.
What’s that crap about
What’s that crap about “almost silent ebikes”? Ebikes make the same amount of noise as an ordinary bike plus the noise of the motor. Clearly the complainers have registered the fact that concern has been raised about the danger presented by “silent” electric cars and decided to apply that same concern to ebikes without any thought or evidence, which does make one wonder how much of the rest of their diatribe is also made-up bollocks.
Literally never seen any
Literally never seen any irresponsible behaviour when passing horses up here (Yorkshire, Derbyshire). Everyone always slows right down and gives a friendly hello.
New Forest seems a different breed, mind. Perpetually annoyed about something
For the most part,I’ve always
For the most part,I’ve always remembered the example where on a narrow country back road I was close passed by a car doing at least 60mph, same driver when seeing the next obstacle were these horse riders 50metres up the road came to a virtual standstill and literally drove up the bank on the right hand side of the road to give them more space.
But the British Horse Society (no not everyone who rides horses is rich & upper class) compile some pretty horrific footage,this is their latest campaign video.
https://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/bhs-takes-horse-safety-messages-to-new-audience/
But the New Forest does seem to be perpetually annoyed about something,it just becomes increasingly not the place I’d choose to visit,spend my time or money in.
I ride in the new Forest,
I ride in the new Forest, both on and off road. I have never seen groups of cyclists travelling at speed or being abusive. I have only ever seen huge respect for horses from cyclists, we slow, give them notice and a wide berth, we talk as we approach rather than ring a bell which may startle the horse, we open and hold gates for them offroad etc.
The issues I see on the roads are from cars driving too fast and close passing. Often the worst offenders are in Land Rover Defenders. Those are driven by local people, not tourists. Off-road, I see cyclist being courteous and slowing for other path users, I see dog walkers who control their dogs when they see cyclists or horses around. Generally it is all very responsible and courteous and everyone is out to enjoy the forest and share with others, without getting killed by motorists.
There are well marked off-road cycle paths, but part of the problem is that they don’t join up across the forest. There’s a bit here, another loop over there, which is all well and good if you want to just go for a short ride with the kids. But if you want to go further, or cross from one area of the forest to another it is often difficult as some paths & bridleways are not supposed to be used by cyclists – but why not? As the ground gets soft and boggy, the damage is done to these paths by horse hooves and walkers boots. Bike tyres actually seem to smooth the paths and make them walkable as they dry out, rather than ruin them.
The verderers seem to blame everyone, the horsey types sometimes think they own the forest. We other users often make allowances for them as they round up the ponies or release the stallions, or pigs, and we are happy to do that, it goes with the territory. I probably speak for many recreational cyclists when I say we want access to the forest and would prefer not to use/damage open ground or heathland, but we would like to use some of the existing paths and bridleways without being discriminated against.
horsey types sometimes think
horsey types sometimes think they own the forest
And the road sometimes. Some riders adopt the ‘we are saintly and untouchable’ stance, and unassuming and road-rage-averse old blokes like me can be criticised for both saying ‘hello’ and not saying ‘hello’, as we come up behind them. It’s probably only about 20% of occasions. Other annoying features are the exaggerated way that motorists pass horses slowly and carefully after they have just given the ancient cyclist (me) the full BMW ‘could save 2 minutes, knock that hospital down’ treatment, and horsey vehicles being close-and-fast overtakers themselves.
This is my experience too.
This is my experience too. The bit about long rides is important, as the offroad routes under the A31 aren’t accessible from the network (they’re primarily there as wildlife/stock crossings)
(Context for grockles: The New Forest is split in two by the fenced A31 dual carriageway, which you’d have to be insane to try and ride on)
I read “The New Forest
I read “The New Forest Equestrian Association claimed…” and didn’t really have to go much further.