Jeremy Vine films impatient driver who gets stopped at next set of lights; Disc brake debate continues as Movistar pro says they’re more dangerous; BBC accused of “cyclist-bashing” story; Cav’s second debut; Dutch flooding + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
BBC accused of "cyclist-bashing" story about dog hit by cyclist
Looking at the picture, they aren’t wearing collars – they are wearing harnesses. Difficult to slip.
Unleashed dogs spooked by cyclists I can believe. But who leaves one of three to wander esp if there are roads nearby?— Debra 🏴🇪🇺 💙 3m paths. Wear a mask (@dmstorr) February 9, 2021
The BBC has been accused of “cyclist-bashing” for their reporting of a story about a dog on the Isle of Wight which was running free when it collided with a cyclist and narrowly avoided being run over by a bus driver. The BBC’s story, headlined ‘Scooby the dog rescued by police after being hit by cyclist’, some cyclists have said, ignores the fact that the owner had lost control of the dog.
The dog’s owner Jackie Dale says the basset hound named Scooby slipped its collar when a group of cyclists “came whizzing from nowhere”. One commenter claimed that they were walking on a National Cycle Network path when the cyclists passed. Scooby had tyre marks on its back and was found away from the scene by PCSO Stephen Hull who said the dog also narrowly avoided being hit by a bus driver.
Since posting the story the BBC has received criticism from cyclists who say the story unnecessarily frames the bike riders as having run the dog over, rather than questioning why the dog was out of control. Scooby was reunited with its owner who said she hopes “this will be a warning to cyclists”.
On Facebook, Bob Moore commented on the story saying: “This is the flimsiest pretext to run a cyclist-bashing article I’ve ever seen.” Leonora Fletcher added, “Slipped its collar. So basically it was running loose then. Wish people would read the article and not just the headline.”
I assume the bus “came out of nowhere” too.
— Llama Lout (@LlamaLout) February 9, 2021
Elia Viviani returns to training following heart surgery
Elia Viviani is back in training after three weeks off the bike due to a cardiac arrhythmia. Viviani underwent atrial ablation surgery to treat the arrhythmia, which he noticed while out on the bike last month. Before the surgery, he explained that he was doing normal strength-resistace work at 140-150 beats per minute when he felt palpitations and his heart rate rocketed to 220 beats per minute 20 seconds later.
Viviani sought out his old Liquigas doctor Roberto Corsetti before undergoing tests at hospital. His return to training at Cofidis’ team camp in Benidorm is a big relief for the Italian sprinter who is still hoping to get his season underway at the UAE Tour later this month before heading to the Giro d’Italia in May. 2020 was something of a disappointment for Viviani who failed to win a race all year, the first time he’s failed to do so since 2009.
A little bit of rain isn't going to stop a Dutch mother
Leve de avontuurlijke moeders! #hoogwater pic.twitter.com/i1vzzpVX51
— Wim Eikelboom (@boomeik) February 6, 2021
Mark Cavendish to make Deceuninck-Quick-Step debut this Sunday at Clasica de Almeria
Winner of the @Clasica_Almeria back in 2015, @MarkCavendish is making his first appearance of the season at the Spanish race, part of a very strong Deceuninck – Quick-Step team: https://t.co/RMfF25uJ1Z pic.twitter.com/cWEhYg9nw5
— Deceuninck-QuickStep (@deceuninck_qst) February 10, 2021
Mark Cavendish will make his second Deceuninck-Quick-Step debut this weekend, at Clasica de Almeria – the race he won in 2015. That year Cav went on to win Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne and a stage of the Tour de France. Normally a race for the sprinters, Quick-Step will have two or three sprint cards to play with Colombian Alvaro Hodeg and young prospect Jannik Steimle both also on the Wolfpack’s startlist for the race.
“Like every rider in these times I’m excited to get the season underway. We are fortunate that the races can go ahead and I’m even more excited to pull on the jersey of the Wolfpack once again and race with the boys. The fact it will happen at an event which brings back a lot of beautiful memories makes it even more special”, Cav said ahead of his first race back at the team where he won 44 races between 2013 and 2015.
Women's cycling network JoyRiders launch first group outside London
#JoyRidersOxford is getting ready to take off! @katherinesmiles @cllrbartington @maryoxford @CoHSATOxon @OxonCyclingNet @oxcivicsoc
Spread the word so more women can find out how to become a volunteer JoyRiders’ Ride Leader
5 info sessions to choose fromhttps://t.co/wDttVQwNXW— JoyRiders Oxford (@JoyRidersOxford) February 7, 2021
JoyRiders, the women’s cycling network, has set up a new group in Oxford as part of their plan to run 400 rides across the country, focusing on helping female cyclists gain the confidence to cycle. With men making up roughly 72% of journeys by bike in the UK, JoyRiders aims to encourage and empower more women to get involved. Once Covid restrictions allow they hope to continue their group rides in London and Oxford and have plans to expand to Manchester too.
Dr Alison Hill, chairwoman of Oxford’s cycling group Cyclox told the Oxford Mail: “It is so exciting to know that JoyRiders will be coming to Oxford. Support for women by women through JoyRiders is a brilliant way of building confidence.”
BBC's Scooby story comments come rolling in...
Plenty of discussion in the comments about the BBC story. Dogless asked the important question of if “anyone has any information on whether the dog was wearing a helmet and hi viz?” No answer on that one yet, but we do now know the dog’s owner Jackie Dale wasn’t the person walking the dog at the time…She has popped up on the Island Echo Facebook page to give her side of the story, including some more serious accusations about the cyclists who she claims also kicked the dog. In a further twist, another comment on the Facebook post from Nath Thorley claims “the person walking the dog is a born liar…I know this as he’s married to my mum”. This has all got very strange…
Some more of your comments…
Muddy Ford wrote: “If there is any valid warning from this story, it is that dog owners (myself included!) should minimise the risk of their dog causing an accident by keeping it on a lead as per Highway Code guidance.”
Sean1 added: “The biggest danger on shared use routes such as NCN is dogs running around off the lead. Inevitably when there is an incident like this the dog owners never blame themselves for irresponsible behaviour.”
Show me a picture that says you are a cyclist without having a bicycle in it thread
— Wayne™ (@Dog_in_a_hat) February 10, 2021
Three giveaways that you’re a cyclist…
— James (@jayshi2105) February 10, 2021
— James (@jayshi2105) February 10, 2021
Movistar rider says disc brakes are definitely more dangerous than rim brakes even if their performance is far better
Movistar rider Matteo Jorgenson has added to the pro debate around disc brakes. The American needed surgery in 2019 after a disc rotor sliced through his calf muscle during a crash at Paris Roubaix Espoirs. Jorgenson told Cyclingnews that disc brakes are “definitely more dangerous than rim brakes”.
“They’re an exposed piece of the bike that gets super hot, especially in a bike race. They can cause damage if they happen to land on a rider in a specific way, and it depends just by chance, on how they touch a rider. Especially if you’re on that side of the bike and you fall on top of a rider like I did.”
Despite his injury, Jorgenson did admit that disc brakes provide a far superior performance to rim brakes and said he was shocked by how much better discs are. “I didn’t see much problem with rim brakes, I thought they were very good. But last January I switched to a new bike with discs, and I was shocked at how much of a difference it makes. In a bike race, there’s so much to be gained by being able to brake later.
“Disc brakes are very consistent, so when you pull the brake at first, it grabs just as much as 10 seconds later. Whereas with a rim brake, especially in the rain, you pull it and it starts to heat up, and then you get either less or sometimes it grabs more depending on the pad type. It’s very inconsistent, you have to kind of think through it while you’re braking. If you’re braking quite hard into a corner, you have to try and anticipate how much more you can brake.”
On Monday, Chris Froome said he wasn’t completely convinced by disc brakes, while talking about his new Factor Ostro VAM. The four-time Tour de France winner “doesn’t believe the technology is where it needs to be yet for road cycling”. We took a look at what could be wrong with his disc brakes…
Giro d'Italia wildcards announced: No invite for Nairo Quintana or Androni Giocattoli–Sidermec
👉Here are the teams of the 2021 #Giro! What’s your favourite team❓ | 👉Ecco le squadre che parteciperanno al #Giro d’Italia 2021! Qual è la tua squadra preferita❓ | 👉Ya están los equipos que participarán en el #Giro d’Italia 2021 ¿Cuál es tu equipo favorito❓ pic.twitter.com/KkxeAj9ASw
— Giro d’Italia (@giroditalia) February 10, 2021
The wildcard places for the Giro d’Italia have been announced with a couple of surprises as there isn’t an invite for Nairo Quintana’s Arkéa–Samsic or Italian Pro Continental outfit Androni Giocattoli–Sidermec. Alpecin-Fenix earned a place on the start line in Turin via their ranking position in 2020. Bardiani–CSF–Faizanè, Eolo–Kometa and Vini Zabù–Brado–KTM received the wildcard places and will join the 19 WorldTour teams at the race.
Nairo Quintana had been vocal about wanting to return to the Italian Grand Tour in 2021. However, the race organisers have gone for three Italian teams instead. Androni Giocattoli–Sidermec were the other big losers, having been a regular feature at the race in past years. In 2019 they won stage six with Fausto Masnada.
Strava update
There’s a new Strava update that lets you search for activities or special races without having to scroll through your feed. Searches are done using keywords or filtered by sport type, distance, time, elevation and date range. You can now also see how many activities you’ve completed in your Training Log or Activities section by clicking on the magnifying glass icon.
Jeremy Vine and a must get past driver who's stopped at the next set of traffic lights
I want to apologise for getting in the way of this driver. pic.twitter.com/y86JrEJigt
— Jeremy Vine (@theJeremyVine) February 10, 2021
We feel like we’ve seen plenty of these incidents before. As Jeremy Vine filters through traffic to get around the vehicles turning left, he passes a Honda driver who then gets upset at being behind a cyclist…In this case the driver beeps their horn a couple of times before rushing through with a hand signal.
Jeremy politely tells the driver: “Excuse me, I think you’re horn’s not working. It keeps going off.”
Vine is a regular on the live blog when he uploads videos from his London travels on his Twitter account. Back in December he caught this motorist driving through Hyde Park in the cycle lane. Last summer, this driver turned into his path as he rode down a new pop-up cycle lane.
Islabikes founder Isla Rowntree steps down as head of company... and her successor started out as a bike builder
Isla Rowntree, who founded the popular children’s bike brand in 2006, will step back to be replaced by her first employee Tim Goodallas managind director. After meeting Rowntree at a bike race, Goodhall started out as assembling bikes for the company, working his way up through his 15 years of service.
Rowntree said: “It has long been my ambition to build a lasting company, so passing on the baton to someone who shares my values has been of the utmost importance. I firmly believe in businesses being a force for good; a vehicle for individuals to have a greater positive impact on society than we usually can alone”.
Goodall commented: “The humble bicycle is a phenomenally efficient vehicle that can benefit our towns and cities. We are at the consumer end of this, and with thoughtful design we can play a small part in encouraging people to cycle more – that is why Islabikes was founded, and it is why we will remain relentlessly focused on designing bikes that remove barriers to cycling”.
10 February 2021, 09:09
10 February 2021, 09:09
10 February 2021, 09:09
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Latest Comments
@rideANDdie People writing any comment on any social media platform should be taken with a pinch of salt, they could be from anyone, mostly rage baiting. I dont for a minute believe people suddenly get absolutely furious with vein popping anger at a cyclist in the road. words on a screen like that are written by the same cowards who try to act big but if they were confronted in the real world they balls would shrink up inside them. And as for trolling, I think youll find I am a regualr commentor on here , and I am a strong advocate for raod safety as many who have read my comments will know. So bore off with that one. My point still stands, the language used is inflammatory, and helps NOBODY, its adding to a problem that made out to be far worse than it is by the gutter press and social media. Adding to it just compounds the problem made by the ones who perpetuate the war on the roads,
So how would you describe the comments left on that post, friendly? What about the comments left on stories of people being knocked off their bike and killed saying "good they deserved it"? What about the many cases of drivists deliberately hitting people on bike? How would you discribe the coutless times I've had someone deliveratly swerve at me, sometimes from the on comming lane, while swearing and shouting, almost always when there was plenty of space to just go around, would you say they were calm while threatening the life of another human being for just exisiting? Just a bit of banter right? Maybe try actually riding on the roads before trolling a cycling website because there's no way a regular road cyclist hasn't had an encouter with an angry driver! The point you miss is bigots and idiots can't get away with blaming all their problems on people of different races, genders etc, one of the last groups it's socially acceptable to overtly hate is cyclists, so we thankfully don't have lynchings anymore what we have instead is people actually wanting to kill or see cyclists be killed and glorifying this behavour. We are just human beings going about our day in a healthy and environmentally friendly way that actually reduces congestion on the roads and half the population (it seems) litterally state outloud they want to see us dead for it and frequently treatern or try to hit us, or just don't care if they do... of course there's nothing angry about that!!!
Motorists should be allowed to drink and/or use drugs while driving at speed in residential areas; pedestrians and cyclists will have to learn how to jump out of the way and wear body armor to protect themselves.
I agree that most motorists are considerate towards cyclists. I think in some cases irritation, which soon escalates to anger. Although some drivers may miss out the irritation stage. But just read some of the idiotic comments in the article. It is a minority to be concerned about.
Trying to distract attention away again from the fact that car drivers do most of the pedestrian killing and injuring, and cyclists kill and injure hardly anybody.
Of couse ultimately one of those German tunneling machines might have to be the answer, just under crawl, at cm per hour, the problem.
@chrisonabike AS I said, I rode them roads regularly, I know there are some very bad country roads, and they criss-cross that entire region. Its pan flat and they are very old lanes. The damage is caused mostly by them subsiding hence the cracks, its a losing battle when the majority of the traffic is still heavy tractors. I could ride from Louth to Somercoats on fair roads. I could also ride a shorter route across these lanes and they were poor due to the subsidence. top tip - avoid them and ride a road that not falling apart cos an irrigation ditch is providing no foundational support to it.
@Smoggysteve but around Lincolnshire the "good roads" (any roads) are normally few and are either busy A-roads (lots of trucks!) or effectively A-roads in terms of traffic volume and speed, just narrower and with worse sight lines. (Use the footways? Good luck there...) Pity since it is mostly flat and there's great touring potential...
Campaign to make endangering a cyclist “as unacceptable as drink driving” praised – but angry motorists say “if you don’t like it, don’t ride on the road” I am not sure the language here is helpful. Are there really many 'Angry' motorists? who is getting angry at the idea of being thoughtful when passing a cyclist? Yes, I am sure there are plenty who will complain about cyclists being 'in their way' but is anger the first emotion you think they jump to? If you want a climb down from the perceived war on our roads - made up entirely by the media, dont feed it with language like this. It helps nobody.
Of course doing that we'll get chips with everything and it'll end up "needing" AI * ... ... but eg. the Dutch have gone a long way with "just don't make every street a through-route for motor traffic". Along with "where you seriously reduce motor traffic volumes and speeds different modes can share space; where that's not possible physically separate them (but design it so cyclists can keep rolling as much as possible)". Although their traffic light phasing (and advance detection of approaching traffic, *including* cyclists) is "space age" tech compared to UK usually timed lights... * Doing planned societal change "simply" appears almost as impossible as following the simple diet advice of "just eat less than you expend energetically, mostly vegetables". There are very strong forces reinforcing any status quo.
69 thoughts on “Jeremy Vine films impatient driver who gets stopped at next set of lights; Disc brake debate continues as Movistar pro says they’re more dangerous; BBC accused of “cyclist-bashing” story; Cav’s second debut; Dutch flooding + more on the live blog”
Particularly like the closing
Particularly like the closing paras on the BBC:
Mr Hull said it had been a “happy ending” for Mrs Dale, whose house was badly damaged by a fire last year, before she suffered a heart attack.
“Thank heavens for Steve who was there in the right place, at the right time,” said Mrs Dale, who hopes this will be a warning to cyclists.
Not only do cyclist hate dogs but they’re attacking people who’ve already suffered personal hardship!
I adore dogs but people who can’t control them shouldn’t have them. I’d never take a dog out on a lead without checking that it couldn’t slip its collar.
Rendel Harris wrote:
It was probably the cyclists who started the fire….
probably those hot disc brake
probably those hot disc brake rotors again…
half_wheel79 wrote:
That would suggest they were using their brakes, or even had them!
Rendel Harris wrote:
Isn’t the better warning aimed at dog-walkers, encouraging them not to have their dogs off the lead on paths shared with cyclists?
Anecdata – I come home along a shared path which is adjacent to a playing field used as a dog walking area (we walk our dog on there). But in pitch dark, with no street lights, you’d really expect people to have the common sense to keep their dogs on a lead at night when on the path, and not let them wander.
A bloke (in dark colours, no torch or reflectives) said, “Oh, thanks for taking care” after I had to brake to avoid riding into his (dark coloured, no reflectives) dog which bounded onto the path in front of me. I suggested to him that he had now waived all rights to complain about cyclists having no lights at night. Ever. He couldn’t see the analogy…
I knew a mathematician once
I knew a mathematician once who had a bassett hound called Cauchy – it left residue at every pole
In complex analysis, a
In complex analysis, a discipline within mathematics, the residue theorem, sometimes called Cauchy’s residue … The fact that π cot(πz) has simple poles with residue 1 at each integer can be used to compute the sum. ∑ n = − ∞ ∞ f ( n ) . WikipediaIn 4 – 6 years time (starting from when I get a place on a mathematics doctorate course) I’m probably going to laugh like hell.
The BBC is institutionally
The BBC is institutionally anti-cyclist and has been so for at least forty years. It has run thousands of stories about health, obesity, pollution and climate change, but never mentions the best way of tackling all of those problems; cycling, but it continually pushes cars (Top Gear) and electric cars, which aren’t the answer to anything.
I listen a lot to R4, and
I listen a lot to R4, and they have a prog called “Inside Health” which has featured how people are getting exercise in lockdown; no mention of cycling. The 5 o’clock news on R4, PM, has also featured the subject, but again, cycling is excluded. If they can ignore record cycling levels in a story which they regularly feature, it isn’t an accident, it is quite deliberate bias.
The BBC complaints links are
The BBC complaints links are here :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints
thanks
thanks
apparently they were not
apparently they were not wearing helmets either
They shouted a warning that
They shouted a warning that they were approaching from the rear but that shout stunned them Husband and the dogs??? Shouting a warning or ringing a bell is better then just sneaking up silently. But that was bad now according to her.
I wish i could upvote this
I wish i could upvote this more than once.
Quote:
Huh? How would wearing helmets make them easier to identify? Are they meant to have their names printed on the sides?
mdavidford wrote:
Don’t give them any ideas!!
mdavidford wrote:
Huh? How would wearing helmets make them easier to identify? Are they meant to have their names printed on the sides?
Were they wearing hi-viz?
Bastards
Captain Badger wrote:
haven’t got a scoobies
Cyclists “not wearing helmets
Cyclists “not wearing helmets” is another way of saying they were irresposnsible
I need to know if the cyclist
I need to know if the cyclist was all right? And, more importantly, how’s their bike?!
PS – I love dogs. This is a joke. Obvs.
HarryTrauts wrote:
Quite, that’s not an insubstantial dog, any rider hitting it hard enough to leave tyre marks on its back is going to come off.
My initial reaction; chapeau
My initial reaction; chapeau to the rider as he managed to cycle over an out of control dog and stay up right. The owner should be applauding his skill as they managed to avoid paying for damages.
IanMK wrote:
I think you’re on to something. Can Danny MacAskill account for his whereabouts on the night in question?
Don’t know why they’re
Don’t know why they’re claiming they were hard to identify – it was obviously Danny MacAskill…
Did his step sister later
Did his step sister later appear on the scene and take 15 minutes to ring the vet?
David9694 wrote:
Oh, ISWYDT! Chapeau!
Highway Code Rule 56
Highway Code Rule 56
“Dogs. Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement, road or path shared with cyclists or horse riders.”
The biggest danger on shared use routes such as NCN is dogs running around off the lead. Inevtiably when there is an incident like this the dog owners never blame themselves for irresponsible behaviour.
always one of my favorites,
always one of my favorites, the advice in the highway code particularly its use of the word short means that these long extending leads should not be used on the road network (pavement, road or shared use path) and dogs should not be off the lead no matter how well trained or behaved they are. quite different once they are in a park or a field but not in many of the places where they do get walked
The thing that strikes me
The thing that strikes me most about the tweet of a Dutch cyclist riding through flood water – they clearly trust that there are no potholes/grooves/subsided road surface under there. My main reason for avoiding riding through floods (at least ones that wouldn’t submerge the BB/hubs) is that a hidden pothole would have me on my arse!
I suspect those Dutch roads
I suspect those Dutch roads are well maintained. Plus if it’s a regular commuting route, then they will be familiar with the road surface.
There is a section of road on my old commute that flooded regularly. I rode it every work day and paid particular attention to the camber and surface. So that when it did flood – I knew where it was likely to be shallowest and that there were no manhole covers that might have been displaced by the water etc.
The alternative is a long detour on busier roads that also could be flooded, so still seemed to be the best option.
Re: Dog story…how the f. is
Re: Dog story…how the f. is this a warning to cyclists, other than there will continue to be bullshit stories published by the BBC stirring up hatred that may put cyclists safety at risk from idiots taking retribution against any cyclist. If there is any valid warning from this story, it is that dog owners (myself included!) should minimise the risk of their dog causing an accident by keeping it on a lead as per highway code guidance. BBC should be reported for inciting hate, as it was intentional by them to phrase the headline so that the cyclist is taken as the perpetrator of a wrongdoing rather than the owner of the dog.
I’m still surprised that
I’m still surprised that anyone pays a license fee to the BBC
dreamlx10 wrote:
Not a licence, it’s a pollution tax.
Or is that a different point of pedantry? Meh, still fits…
Lucky the dog didn’t hit a
Lucky the dog didn’t hit a disc rotor!
rct wrote:
Course it didn’t, you don’t think the evil cyclist had brakes on its bike do you?
Does anyone have any
Does anyone have any information on whether the dog was wearing a helmet and hi viz?
“tyre marks up his white fur”
“tyre marks up his white fur” ???? Really? Is this a Wile E Coyote cartoon? If the bike had hit him, he might have had bruises or cuts, but I just don’t believe that a tyre can mark a dog’s fur. I hope she learns her lesson, but I suspect it will just make her more convinced that all cyclists are evil.
agreed, and I would expect
agreed, and I would expect the cyclist to be down if that were the case, so whoever got injuries get a claim in for the damge to you and your bike since she failed to keep the wild rabid bike hating monster under control. Maybe its abot ime these beast were licensed (with visible registration No) and insured to be out in public
Why does Matteo Jorgenson’s
Why does Matteo Jorgenson’s bruise end at the edge of (presumably) his shorts? Tan lines – yes; mud – yes; but bruises?
brooksby wrote:
Probably dirt/dust, rather than bruising – it was Paris Roubaix (espoirs) after all, hardly the cleanest of roads.
Good point
Good point
If the dog had taken the
If the dog had taken the primary position none of this would have occurred….
Well that’s normally good enough to tick off for the bingo card in the comments.
Whenever a cyclist and
Whenever a cyclist and something or someone vulnerable colide I think “What would have happened to the other party if that cyclist had been behind the wheel of their car?”
“Scooby was hit by one of
OK BBC, why is it personal in the case of cyclists, yet impersonal when the situation is far more potentially deadly?
Sriracha wrote:
They hate cyclists slightly more than bicycles, and definitely more than bus drivers?
Clearly cyclists value their
Clearly cyclists value their bicycle too much to use it against a dog, so the cyclist must have done it themself. BBC manual of discriminatory logic, p246 ?
Sriracha wrote:
To be fair it is a quote so it isn’t the BBC saying this, they are just reporting what they were told. Also if you read further down the page, you’ll see there is talk of the dog having been kicked, perhaps, allegedly.
jh2727 wrote:
To be fair it is a quote so it isn’t the BBC saying this, they are just reporting what they were told. Also if you read further down the page, you’ll see there is talk of the dog having been kicked, perhaps, allegedly.
The BBC are saying it. They have picked a “story” which is completely anecdotal, and are in effect reporting it as fact. Any reporting agency has a duty to fact check before publication. Much as it was funny on HIGNFY, tagging “allegedly” on to an untrue sentence does not make it okay to say it.
BBC have got form on this. This is the agency that for decades gave unqualified climate deniers an unchallenged platform next to legitimate scientists “for balance”.
Captain Badger wrote:
That’s how ‘news’ is done these days, I’m afraid – grab whatever the twitter algorithm has thrown up, throw some quote marks round it, and publish your story. Old-fashioned notions like ‘investigation’ and ‘fact-checking’ require time and money, which no-one has any more.
It’s not like the august publication on whose pages we’re discussing it is any different…
mdavidford wrote:
I fear you are correct, but I can dream of higher standards…..
Captain Badger wrote:
You should have a read of this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flat-Earth-News-Award-winning-Distortion/dp/0099512688
hawkinspeter wrote:
Don’t, please. I’ll get triggered and start to throw things. I’m still trying to wade through Blowback, it’s so depressing I can only take a few pages at time. Same with Debt:1st 5000 years.
Just as well Richard
Just as well Richard Ballantine (RIP) wasn’t among the group of cyclists with the dog. The story would have taken a much darker turn…
Kronsteen wrote:
Showing your age there – as am I knowing what you’re talking about! I used to have a copy of the original with his robust advice on dealing with dog attacks, before the publishers made him change it.
Something about holding one’s
Something about holding one’s full-frame pump horizontally out in front?
Sriracha wrote:
That and much, much more, it’s rather graphic! He did make clear though that he loved dogs and was simply talking about what to do if in severe danger from a dog attack.
In fairness, his advice was
In fairness, his advice was good: if the owner won’t control their dog, then I will, and by force if necessary.
Why is it that some pedestrians in groups, and some pedestrians with dogs (and some pedestrians in groups with dogs) think they exist in a bubble on public shared paths and bridleways? It’s one thing that we should give way to them — fair enough, it’s the cascaded responsibility that we expect of drivers — it’s another for them to splay across the path and let dogs run back and forth without any thought that other people might be coming along. There _will_ be people approaching from behind you, don’t act all surprised when it happens, and look around you as you walk.
I’ll happily move around you if you give me a chance, but your dog is your responsibility, not mine.
GMBasix wrote:
I don’t own a dog, but as a cyclist I look out for hazards and don’t expect others to be perfect (especially dogs), because that’s a standard I could not live up to. I’ve never been attacked by a dog, but plenty are inquisitive and a bit stupid, and want to “say hello”. I’ve never yet felt endangered nor managed to run one over, and me, dog and owner have continued our happy lives after every encounter.
Ballantine’s advice, whilst rather entertaining, has never proved necessary.
In a shared use area,
In a shared use area, cyclists are expected to ride with caution. I’m a cyclist and dog owner. Yep, some dog owners are irresponsible and those long leads are dangerous. But then some cyclists are foolish and ride at speed through those shared use facilities. With dogs and kids about who are not predictable, that’s taking a big risk. It works both ways.
It does work BOTH ways,but my
It does work BOTH ways,but my experience of shared spaces like that, it is only ever the cyclist doing the sharing work. The pedestrian with dog nearly always places themselves as a priority user above all others considerations and use. I’ve never met someone with a dog on a shared path who didnt look as if I was being utterly selfish and totally in the wrong for daring to ride a bike on a cycle path,which meant they had to do something more than stare at their phone whilst they ambled around with their dog who knows where.
Never, Awavey? Maybe you only
Never, Awavey? Maybe you only notice the the ones who get in your way, since you must, and don’t recall all the others whose dogs either were never in contention or else were called to heel. Obviously if you go barrelling on in the expectation that dogs and owners will clear the way for you then you might get looks of disapproval. There is a negotiation to be had, which generally involves the cyclist slowing down in anticipation.
That I have to even state for
That I have to even state for the record that no I dont ride like a complete idiot on shared paths, is almost as frustrating as riding on them.
if I were walking a dog on a shared path id keep it on its short lead, under control and I’d be fully aware of other path users.
That’s all I’m asking for,that’s sharing to me, it doesnt feel alot & maybe I have met some dog owners who get that, but they feel pretty rare ime
And yes Fwiw I have been bitten by a dog whilst cycling on a shared path,so maybe my tolerance for letting dogs have free reign on them is limited
Awavey wrote:
Frustrating indeed. In evidence, however, is your own statement that all the dog owners you have ever met whilst cycling on a shared path have come to the conclusion that you were being “utterly selfish and totally in the wrong for daring to ride a bike on a cycle path…”
It seems doubtful that owning a dog should make so many diverse individuals come to the same erroneous conclusion, so I am merely suggesting that it is not the fact of riding a bike on the shared path so much as the manner in which you do it that piques them.
Or, maybe it was an exaggeration?
Awavey wrote:
Whilst I’ve met plenty who are as you describe – I’ve also met plenty who’ll move their dog out of the way and hold their dog as I pass… when given the chance.
Sure the completely ignorant dog walkers a worse than the completely pedestrians – becuase they looking at their phone whilst the dog(s) is wandering off leash (or worse, on an extendable tripwire). However the non-ignorant dog walkers tend to be very good and there is a higher proportion of non-ignorant dog walkers than is non-ignorant pedestrians. My conclusion is that cyclists must constitute a greater proportion of dog owners than general pedestrians.
That’s not my experience at
That’s not my experience at all, whether cycling or walking my dog. Some people are selfish, some aren’t. The same sort of people who are selfish road hoggers when driving also tend to be the same people who are selfish when walking their dog(s) or cycling.
My dog’s often on the lead (not an extendable one) because he chases squirrels and is reactive to some other dog breeds. When I’m walking him, he’ll usually be close beside me and I do indeed look out for cyclists, runners, parents with kids in buggies or people in electric buggies.
But I’ve had plenty of experiences when I’ve had to yank him out of the way because of an inconsiderate cyclist at speed (or jogger) not taking heed of the fact that a crowded shared use facility with kids, other runners, families, dogs and so on means they have to slow down or go round.
Show me a picture that says
Show me a picture that says you are a cyclist without having a bicycle in it
dogs are wild animals that
dogs are wild animals that live in peoples houses. They should stay there and there only, with the occasional run in the garden. They shouldnt be taken out for walks, or to cycle paths or fields. I depise the things. They constantly jump up and bark at me when im on my motorbikes, so i try to rev bomb the crap out of the engine as they do it. The last time iran through a field, a dog followed me, not on a lead. I kept running, until i got to a main road. I crossed it thinking the dog wouldnt follow., but he did! and people beeped at me like he was my dog! he began barking and snarling at me, so i was stopped for 5 minutes waiting for the stupid ”owner’ to finally catch up and call him to her. If a car had crashed because of the dog, would that have been ”my fault” or her fault? Why should i be frightened to go jogging or cycling in a public space because weird people think its normal to live with a wild wolf in their house and havent got their own space to exercise it? Dogs need to go away. They also bite postmen and barked or jumped up at me when i was a paper boy. Hateful things.
Gary wrote:
Reminds me of “that’s not my dog”:
Clues to help spot nutter dog
Clues to help spot nutter dog-owner: more than 1 dog; extendable dog lead (can these be locked so they don’t extend?); dog(s) in the front passenger seat