Mr Loophole doubles down on two abreast rant (+ Jeremy Vine gets involved); More Surrey cops zingers; Valtteri Bottas: I’m getting more podiums in cycling than F1; Van der Poel eyes green jersey; LTN news; But cyclists + more on the live blog

128 thoughts on “Mr Loophole doubles down on two abreast rant (+ Jeremy Vine gets involved); More Surrey cops zingers; Valtteri Bottas: I’m getting more podiums in cycling than F1; Van der Poel eyes green jersey; LTN news; But cyclists + more on the live blog”

1. Its quite sad isn’t it. A lot

   Its quite sad isn’t it. A lot of people think the same way as that simple fool. The video clearly shows that even if the riders were single-file, there was no safe or legal way for the cars to overtake, until the straight at the end of the video. Driving slowly for 1min has driven them to this insane reaction. 1min. Its a poison.

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   • Let’s be clear, you don’t
     Let’s be clear, you don’t have to impact a driver’s journey in any way to be on the receiving end of obscene gestures (e.g. oncoming cars on roads where riding abreast is absolutely appropriate), blasts of horns (car parked filling mandatory bike lane), cars overtaking where passengers shout “single file!” oblivious to how their driver has been able to pass safely because we are two abreast.

     So let’s take delay out of the equation. Mr Loophole wants roads where every individual car driver, but not lorries or bikes, can travel at the maximum speed the road is capable of (and clearly he does not count speed limits as part of that assessment given his past record of legal work). He doesn’t seem to grasp that the real problem is other cars – it’s not 1960.

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     • Can we go back to something

       Can we go back to something like this?

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   • And the actual time lost was
     And the actual time lost was the differential between max speed of 30 and the 15-20 actual. So not really anything of consequence, given an overtake was possible at the end of the clip.

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2. The doubling down when called
   The doubling down when called out for saying something incorrect, ignorant or just plain dumb. A technique championed by Halfwit-in-Chief Donald Trump and proven effective in fixing an otherwise unsupportable idea in the consciousness of the barely sentient, unable to exercise critical thinking skills. Nick Freeman is a manipulative and mendacious individual who thrives on notoriety for his personal gain.

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   • Mungecrundle wrote:

     The doubling down when called out for saying something incorrect, ignorant or just plain dumb. A technique championed by Halfwit-in-Chief Donald Trump […] .

     — Mungecrundle

     Not surprising really – he just got it from the Russians, like certain other things.

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     • chrisonatrike wrote:

       The doubling down when called out for saying something incorrect, ignorant or just plain dumb. A technique championed by Halfwit-in-Chief Donald Trump […] .

       — chrisonatrike

       Not surprising really – he just got it from the Russians, like certain other things.— Mungecrundle
       I think one can overstate the help the H-WIC got from the Russians. It wasn’t much, only wee.

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       • TheBillder wrote:

         The doubling down when called out for saying something incorrect, ignorant or just plain dumb. A technique championed by Halfwit-in-Chief Donald Trump […] .

         — TheBillder

         Not surprising really – he just got it from the Russians, like certain other things.

         — chrisonatrike I think one can overstate the help the H-WIC got from the Russians. It wasn’t much, only wee.— Mungecrundle

         This would have been a second like. Crude. Which I liked.

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   • Mungecrundle wrote:

     The doubling down when called out for saying something incorrect, ignorant or just plain dumb. A technique championed by Halfwit-in-Chief Donald Trump and proven effective in fixing an otherwise unsupportable idea in the consciousness of the barely sentient, unable to exercise critical thinking skills. Nick Freeman is a manipulative and mendacious individual who thrives on notoriety for his personal gain.

     — Mungecrundle

     So exactly like Trump.  And some British politicians, for that matter…

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3. Veteran road safety expert
   Veteran road safety expert and celebrated lawyer Nick Freeman has published a 10 point plan for improving cohesion and safety on Britain’s streets and motorways. What are your thoughts?:

   – Ban using hands free mobile phones.
   – Reduce drink drive limit from 80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood to 50 milligrams.
   – Cameras should automatically flash middle lane hoggers so they are fined and receive penalty points.
   – Lorry drivers on three lane motorways should be confined to the nearside line. This would rise to the two inner lanes on four lane motorways.
   – A compulsory vision and driving test every two years for motorists over 70.
   – Newly qualified drivers should have to wear `NQ` plates for two years after passing their test. If they don`t there should be instant disqualification and a compulsory extended re-test.
   – Cyclists need to be identified with number plates, take a proficiency test, their bikes should have a yearly MOT and the wearing of helmets and tabards should also be compulsory
   – Learning how to overtake cyclists should be part of the driving test
   – Reducing use of fluctuating speed on smart motorways.
   – Speed limit should be raised from 70mph to 80mph on motorways

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   • Garage at Large wrote:

     Veteran road safety expert and celebrated lawyer Nick Freeman has published a 10 point plan for improving cohesion and safety on Britain’s streets and motorways. What are your thoughts?: – Ban using hands free mobile phones. – Reduce drink drive limit from 80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood to 50 milligrams. – Cameras should automatically flash middle lane hoggers so they are fined and receive penalty points. – Lorry drivers on three lane motorways should be confined to the nearside line. This would rise to the two inner lanes on four lane motorways. – A compulsory vision and driving test every two years for motorists over 70. – Newly qualified drivers should have to wear `NQ` plates for two years after passing their test. If they don`t there should be instant disqualification and a compulsory extended re-test. – Cyclists need to be identified with number plates, take a proficiency test, their bikes should have a yearly MOT and the wearing of helmets and tabards should also be compulsory – Learning how to overtake cyclists should be part of the driving test – Reducing use of fluctuating speed on smart motorways. – Speed limit should be raised from 70mph to 80mph on motorways

     — Garage at Large

     I’ve been trying to ignore your posts, but I think this one is probably worth engaging with.  First – stop calling him a road safety expert.  His twitter profile picture celebrates, among other things, getting a driver off for driving at over 100mph.  There is nothing possibly ”road safety” about that.

     On his plan – agree on hands free mobiles; drink drivers; middle lane hoggers (at least the principle of tackling the issue); something on over 70s, not sure if exactly what he proposes; learning how to overtake cyclists (which is ironic, as he clearly doesn’t know) and I’m ok on raising motorway limit as long as it is then strictly enforcd.

     Ambivalent on the new drivers bit.

     Disagree on lorries; the cycling bits (for the reasons that have been rehearsed to death); and the ‘fluctuating speed limits’ bit.

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     • The “middle lane hoggers”
       The “middle lane hoggers” point is pertinent, as it’s essentially the motoring equivalent of cycling many abreast in a large group – it creates an inefficient, unnecessary and difficult to overtake obstacle which frustrates and angers people.

       So perhaps that’s a good way to visualise the group of cyclists in his eloquently orated video. There’s something so uncivilised about their behaviour.

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       • Garage at Large wrote:

         The “middle lane hoggers” point is pertinent, as it’s essentially the motoring equivalent of cycling many abreast in a large group – it creates an inefficient, unnecessary and difficult to overtake obstacle which frustrates and angers people. So perhaps that’s a good way to visualise the group of cyclists in his eloquently orated video. There’s something so uncivilised about their behaviour.

         — Garage at Large

         Except it’s not, is it?  Had the group in Freeman’s video been single file, it would have been more difficult to overtake them.

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         • Steve K wrote:

           Except it’s not, is it?  Had the group in Freeman’s video been single file, it would have been more difficult to overtake them.

           — Steve K

           I asked NG that question yesterday and he ignored it.  He went back to the defence saying that Mr Loophole had probably been held up for ages before they started filming

         • Steve K wrote:

           The “middle lane hoggers” point is pertinent, as it’s essentially the motoring equivalent of cycling many abreast in a large group – it creates an inefficient, unnecessary and difficult to overtake obstacle which frustrates and angers people. So perhaps that’s a good way to visualise the group of cyclists in his eloquently orated video. There’s something so uncivilised about their behaviour.

           — Steve K

           Except it’s not, is it?  Had the group in Freeman’s video been single file, it would have been more difficult to overtake them.— Garage at Large

           Just to add to my own comment.  The nearest to be equivalent to the middle lane hogger point is the ‘lorries only in the inside lane’ – which I do not agree with.  Both reflect Freeman’s apparent view (as pointed out by IanMSpencer) that cars are more important than any other form of transport – when actually cars cause more delays for others (including other cars) than any other form of transport.

         • Stop feeding him. 

           Stop feeding him. 

           I’m thinking about opening a parody twitter account.. Farage_at_Large seems like a decent candidate. How about we use our collective brainpower to come up with the best parody twitter account names?

           Fararge_at_Large : Voted least likely to succeed at school, look at me now you losers! Owns Toad Hall.

           DJ_JC_Jeremy Corbyn : 2019 winner of the Youth vote, street talk for the younger generation, homie to Big Narstie.

           Priti Patella : Voted Most Likely to Succeed, believes in corporal punishment for lacklutre civil servants.

            

           (note I probably won’t open a parody twitter account but this seems like fun)

         • peted76 wrote:

           Stop feeding him. 

           — peted76

           Sorry!  I have generally been avoiding doing so, but I thought the list of suggested law changes was worth commenting on; but then, of course, once you get sucked in…

         • I keep forgetting we’ve Nasal

           I keep forgetting we’ve Nasal Forage to do this for us… still without grit in the oyster etc.

         • chrisonatrike wrote:

           I keep forgetting we’ve Nasal Forage to do this for us… still without grit in the oyster etc.

           — chrisonatrike

           Afternoon.  Yes apologies, the day job has a habit of getting in the way, we can’t all spend all day fan boying “celebrity” lawyers and churning out tired,  derivative comments seeking attention.  That and I’ve just been out for a ride, I find it far more valuable.

           Anyway, I see our friend is back to feed his habit.    I’ve offered him hugs, a shoulder to cry on, cups of tea, referals to top tier counsellors, the lot.  I’m thinking of seeing if Nick Freeman is on Cameo or something – maybe get him a nice message from him for Christmas.  Happy to take any suggestions on the content.

         • I had to look up Cameo – it

           I had to look up Cameo – it just made me think of red codpieces and soap my gran used to use. To be clear my gran never (to my knowledge) wore a red codpiece.

            

         • SimoninSpalding wrote:

           I had to look up Cameo – it just made me think of red codpieces and soap my gran used to use. To be clear my gran never (to my knowledge) wore a red codpiece.

            

           — SimoninSpalding

           I just spat my tea out reading that.  

       • Garage at Large wrote:

         The “middle lane hoggers” point is pertinent, as it’s essentially the motoring equivalent of cycling many abreast in a large group – it creates an inefficient, unnecessary and difficult to overtake obstacle which frustrates and angers people. So perhaps that’s a good way to visualise the group of cyclists in his eloquently orated video. There’s something so uncivilised about their behaviour.

         — Garage at Large

         Roads are inefficient… the moment we introduce personalised transport whose users expect to travel at 60 mph on a windy narrow road, with the separation of vehicles that that requires.  If you want efficient use of roads, everybody should be on foot or bike; and ideally travelling in a disciplined group.  I think I’ve seen a video recently showing an example [searches ‘self-aggrandising ambulance-chaser video’ to check…]

          

         Middle-lane hoggers are a problem: difficult to define, and to identify and enforce, especially by static camera.  Moving back to the nearside lane when passing two vehicles that appear spread out can be dangerous if, for example, the distance between them does not allow for a safe distance between you and the vehicle just passed &/or about to be passed, or that distance is reducing quickly enough that the move left will be followed very quickly by a move right.

         Some examples of hogging are blatant with nothing in sight in the left lane; some are a matter of judgement. Where would you set the trigger point for enforcement? 

         Too often, impatient drivers behind the overtaking vehicle in themiddle lane do not take into account that their own faster speed distorts their perception of the pass that the middle lane user is executing.  And the fact that those impatient drivers are very often exceeding the speed limit themselves just adds to the irony.

         While I find middle lane hogging to be frustrating, I am learning that the frustration is very often my problem, and just to deal with it.  Because, guess what… there’s an outside lane I can use!

          

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         • GMBasix wrote:

           Too often, impatient drivers behind the overtaking vehicle in themiddle lane do not take into account that their own faster speed distorts their perception of the pass………

           While I find middle lane hogging to be frustrating, I am learning that the frustration is very often my problem, and just to deal with it.  Because, guess what… there’s an outside lane I can use!

           — GMBasix

           And of course the supreme irony of the fast middle lane hogger delayed by the slow middle lane hogger. I used to find it faily common that I would come up behind two cars in the middle lane of an otherwise empty road, move out to pass them both, then pull in to lane 1, if the front car of the pair took the hint and pulled over the second car would then pass me remaining in the middle lane.

           The outside lane was available for overtaking but for some reason they chose not to use it, even though they clearly wished to travel faster than me, never mind faster the the slower middle lane hogger.

         • wycombewheeler wrote:

           …if the front car of the pair took the hint and pulled over the second car would then pass me remaining in the middle lane.

           — wycombewheeler

           And then invariably slow down immediately ahead, sometimes even alongside, preventing you from passing the next vehicle without going through a convoluted maoeuvre to correct their ignorance.  MrsBasix is fed up with the number of times I bless the blocking driver as I advise them through two layers of glass that they should either be passing me or not passing me, not suspending the action mid-way.

       • Garage at Large wrote:

         There’s something so uncivilised about their behaviour.

         — Garage at Large

         There’s nothing uncivilised about their behaviour. There was not a single moment of the video in which the drivers did not have an entire clear lane available in which to overtake. The cyclists did nothing, absolutely nothing to block them from overtaking. The reason they didn’t is because the road itself ( for the very brief stretch on video) is clearly and obviously unsafe to overtake on.

         The only uncivilised thing going on is rude and antisocial yobs like you intentionally ignoring that fact so you can attempt to create anger and discord over it. Maybe one day you’ll join polite society yourself instead of acting like a council estate chav.

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         • Wingguy wrote:

           There’s nothing uncivilised about their behaviour. There was not a single moment of the video in which the drivers did not have an entire clear lane available in which to overtake. The cyclists did nothing, absolutely nothing to block them from overtaking. The reason they didn’t is because the road itself ( for the very brief stretch on video) is clearly and obviously unsafe to overtake on.

           The only uncivilised thing going on is rude and antisocial yobs like you intentionally ignoring that fact so you can attempt to create anger and discord over it. Maybe one day you’ll join polite society yourself instead of acting like a council estate chav.

           — Wingguy

           No matter how many times that point has been mentioned to Nigel…. he just ignores the fact that the reason the cyclists had not been overtaken was down to the road not the actions of the cyclists.  And even when it is pointed out the opportunity for a driver to overtake even a solo cyclist on that particular stretch of road is very limited he will still ignore it.

           He will continue to bleat on about how his hero Mr Freeman would only ever have resorted to filming the cyclists after being held up for many miles beforehand.

       • Garage at Large wrote:

         The “middle lane hoggers” point is pertinent, as it’s essentially the motoring equivalent of cycling many abreast in a large group – it creates an inefficient, unnecessary and difficult to overtake obstacle which frustrates and angers people. So perhaps that’s a good way to visualise the group of cyclists in his eloquently orated video. There’s something so uncivilised about their behaviour.

         — Garage at Large

         Ok Nige…. I will ask again and this time I want a straight answer not your usual, deflect waffle wibble wobble blah blah blah about how your hero Nick Freeman had been held up for ages before he started to record.

         WAS IT SAFE DURING THAT CLIP FOR A DRIVER TO OVERTAKE A CYCLIST, EVEN A SOLO CYCLIST?  

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         • TriTaxMan wrote:

           WAS IT SAFE DURING THAT CLIP FOR A DRIVER TO OVERTAKE A CYCLIST, EVEN A SOLO CYCLIST?  

           — TriTaxMan

           OK, OK, keep your hair on! Caps lock is the internet version of shouting, and is considered rather rude, obtuse behaviour.

           During the clip, it may have been perfectly safe to overtake a single cyclist, but it would have depended on the speed they were travelling at.

           As I already said yesterday, you aren’t asking the correct question, which is about the cyclists’ conduct prior and after Mr Freeman had finished filming. It is doubtlessly true that a queue had built up behind them a long time prior to the recording starting.

         • Well, I’m assuming after the
           Well, I’m assuming after the clip the cyclists were overtaken (safely I hope). And prior to the clip, I’m assuming they caught them up. If there was a queue of traffic behind, I’m assuming Freeman pulled over to let them all past as it would be the most considerate thing to do.

         • There We Are Then.

           There We Are Then.

         • Garage at Large wrote:

           OK, OK, keep your hair on! Caps lock is the internet version of shouting, and is considered rather rude, obtuse behaviour.

           During the clip, it may have been perfectly safe to overtake a single cyclist, but it would have depended on the speed they were travelling at.

           As I already said yesterday, you aren’t asking the correct question, which is about the cyclists’ conduct prior and after Mr Freeman had finished filming. It is doubtlessly true that a queue had built up behind them a long time prior to the recording starting.

           — Garage at Large

           I know exactly what caps means which is exactly why I used it.

           Again you did not answer the question and again you go back to the defence of your hero making assumptions that there is a queue built up behind them a long time prior to the recording starting. 

           Am I right in thinking that you repeatedly try and justify the police standpoint of not being able to prosecute drivers becuase the video does not provide sufficient evidence to prove bad driving.  Guess what this video does not prove anything that you are asserting so I suggest stop with your spurious arguments

           You know what speed they were travelling at 19 or 20mph as described by the narrator in your hero’s clip.

           I am asking exactly the question that I intended to ask because in all likelihood, Mr Freeman, a notoriously anti-cycling ambassador will no doubt have edited the clip to further his point.  I mean is it not entirely feasible that he came across the group 30 seconds before recording, did his piece to camera for a whole minute, then when the road straightened out and the car in front was able to overtake his recording ended.

           Why don’t you go and ask him to provide the two minutes of footage before and two minutes of footage after his edited clip to prove your theory?  I mean thats what I as a cyclist have to provide from my camera if I expect the police to take action.

           So once again I will ask you the question which I want the answer to. 

           In the video that your hero provided was there a safe place for an overtake?  Even if it was a solo cyclist travelling at the same speed as the group… at 19 or 20mph?  A simple yes or no is all that is required.  No speculation about what happened before or after the incident.  No speculation about what speed the cyclist/cyclists are travelling at.

           But given your subsequent comments which amount to your view that a cyclist can only ever be allowed on a road if the are going somewhere to do something productive shows your entire stance and you will do anything to try and make it seem like the cyclists are in the wrong you won’t answer the actual question asked you will try and deflect AGAIN!

     • This is a really mixed bag –

       This is a really mixed bag – to be honest Mijnheer Garage’s summary (can’t be bothered to go find the original – wrong, I know…) reads like a poll of opinions in the pub you’d get if the interviewers looked “serious”. So essentially “what gets in my way / slows me down / irritates me while motoring” plus some “oh yeah, that’s unsafe”. So we can treat this with the same respect.

       A lawyer will certainly have heard lots of examples of unsafe driving and its consequences. That does not qualify as “road safety expertise” any more than we should get our emergency medics to set out our road laws and designs. We should certainly take notes from these people – but that’s all. You can rely on a defence lawyer to tell you how to avoid more people getting to court. That’s nowt to do with safety.

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   • Gunge and Lard wrote:

     .
     – Newly qualified drivers should have to wear `NQ` plates for two years after passing their test.

     — Gunge and Lard

     A) you can’t normally see what a driver is wearing so I doubt that plates, bowls or any other crockery will have much effect.

     B) can we have something equivalent for “I’ve had no training nor read the highway code in 5+ years so am likely to be a crap driver”?

     I have to do a minimum of 35 hours training a year in my job. Even if I tried, I doubt I could kill anyone with botched IT. For driving, I did about 15 hours in total, decades ago. Where’s the logic?

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   • Thanks for asking for

     Thanks for asking for opinions – is this a new you?

     I’m not sure what “cohesion” means but I’ll run with “comprehensibility”. That means it should be obvious to all road users what type of environment they’re in and how they need to behave. This should be “self-enforcing” as much as possible. The street design itself should prompt this rather than requiring lots of signs / markings / policemen standing around.

     Just apply the principles of Sustainable Safety. Here (article, paper, video).

     • (Mono)Functionality (of roads)
     • Homogeneity (of mass, speed and direction of road users)
     • Predictability (of road course and road user behaviour by a recognisable road design)
     • Forgivingness (of both the road/street environment and the road users)
     • State awareness (by the road user)

     (This is actually the pre-2018 formulation but simpler to start with for the UK).

     Add in periodic re-tests for drivers – call them “refreshers” if you will. Because these are principles we can start using these now to move from where we. Our roads are in global terms relatively “safe” but at cost: an over-reliance on private motor vehicles with many negative consequences. No independant mobility for children, access difficulties for those who can’t drive, minimising walking and cycling, particulate pollution, loss of “local” amenities etc.

     We may not adopt all of the same actual designs as the Dutch – although I’d recommend considering that too. They”ve been trialled for a few decades…

     There has been some investigating of these ideas in English-speaking countries (“Safe System“). For reasons which always escape me they’re always struggling to avoid any mention of the Dutch and their vision always seems to emphasise the reactive more than the proactive. Is it “not invented here” syndrome or are we unwilling to prioritise safety over “convenient for drivers”?

     Yes, it will take years (and money!) to alter the engineering and retrain drivers. However the “cohesive” (clear / “self-enforcing”) road design naturally makes that easier. We already do this e.g. wide, straight multi-lane road = high speed. Unfortunately we extend that one principle (fast “flow” / high capacity) everywhere. So even through built up areas we have nice wide turn radii so you can drive into a side street without slowing!

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   • Garage at Large wrote:

     Cyclists need to be identified with number plates, take a proficiency test, their bikes should have a yearly MOT and the wearing of helmets and tabards should also be compulsory

     — Garage at Large

     Apart from the bloody stupidity of all that, what’s the point of passing laws that couldn’t possibly be enforced? Last year four million drivers used their cars on the road with an expired MOT, around a million drove without insurance, and there are an astonishing estimated 800,000 driving without licences or whilst banned. If the authorities can only catch a tiny proportion of these, where are they going to find the time and resources to police this nonsense? 

      

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     • Rendel Harris wrote:

       Cyclists need to be identified with number plates, take a proficiency test, their bikes should have a yearly MOT and the wearing of helmets and tabards should also be compulsory

       — Rendel Harris

       Apart from the bloody stupidity of all that, what’s the point of passing laws that couldn’t possibly be enforced? Last year four million drivers used their cars on the road with an expired MOT, around a million drove without insurance, and there are an astonishing estimated 800,000 driving without licences or whilst banned. If the authorities can only catch a tiny proportion of these, where are they going to find the time and resources to police this nonsense? — Garage at Large

       A yearly MOT?  Garage do you actually think about the drivel you post?

       If a bicycle has a catastrophic failure of any or multiple components the chances are there may be a little damage to property, and a possibility of injury to the rider or other riders in the group at worst.

       If a motorvehicle has any one of multiple MOT Fails such as damaged suspension, bald tyres etc…… the risks are catastrophic damage to property and the potential for multiple fatalites.

       Not only that and MOT is a snapshot of the roadworthiness of the vehicle at that exact moment in time.  Lets say a car has an MOT and it comes out with advisories on all its tyres saying that they have the legal tread depth but just enough to scrape past it’s MOT.  The driver of that vehicle does 30,000 miles per year in that car, so within a week possibly 2 the tyres are below the legal limit…. yet the driver doesn’t change them….. so despite it’s 2 week old MOT that car is now not roadworthy.

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   • Garage at Large wrote:

      – Learning how to overtake cyclists should be part of the driving test –

     — Garage at Large

     IF Nick Freeman believes this is beneficial why doesn’t he start by voluntarily learning how to overtake cyclists? Then he would see that one or two abreast makes little difference.

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   • Garage at Large wrote:

     Veteran road safety expert and celebrated lawyer Nick Freeman has published a 10 point plan for improving cohesion and safety on Britain’s streets and motorways. What are your thoughts?

     — Garage at Large

     Firstly, I can’t take ageing arsehole shit-stirrer Nick Freeman seriously. Not worth wasting my time.

     Secondly, well… I guess my first point covers it.

     But “celebrated”?

     Come on Nige, youre ‘avin’ a laugh!

     

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   • What are your thoughts?:

     What are your thoughts?:

     — Garage at Large

     You only posted that to wind up the forum. There is a name for that.

     My thoughts are….. you struggle with logic and empathy. I pity you and hope you get the help you need.

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   • Garage at Large wrote:

     Speed limit should be raised from 70mph to 80mph on motorways

     — Garage at Large

     Firstly thanks for asking for my opinion.

     I don’t know the answer to this but before increasing speed limits has he considered the impact to the environment? I believe US speed limits 65mph and 55mph were set historically to increase fuel efficiency. Is this not still the case?

     Also, and again I’m not an expert, I’ve been told by people that drive electric cars that they don’t thrash them because it kills the range very quickly, so it would seem not to benefit the COP 26 preferred mode of tansport.

     I’m just wondering if his views aren’t a bit antiquated or if he’s actually a climate change denyer?

      

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     • TBH, that one statement shows

       TBH, that one statement shows how limited knowledge PoopHole actually has. He wants to increase the speed difference between the slowest and fastest vehicles allowed on the motorways which will mean more severe braking and slow downs and more middle lane hoggers as they will otherwise be weaving more then most. You will also then have the twat arses who believe the 10% rule will get them off touching 90 instead. 

       And his other comment on removing variable speed limits is because he doesn’t understand the reason they are there is to try to keep a reasonable flow of traffic because when the motorway becomes saturated with people doing 70, the speeds drops to 0-20. However if they can slow down the traffic beforehand the actual flow speeds are higher. Again it reduces the heavier braking which has the incremental knockon down the line of traffic and causes a dead stop as each driver brakes harder as they don’t know how much braking the driver in front does. 

       Still someone who got his publicity for luckily getting Ferguson* and Beckham off because the judges were starstuck and then built a career off it is definitley someone who doesn’t actually know much. TBH, if the law didn’t have the arseholery section stating road offence NIP needed to be sent and received within 2 weeks, we would never have ever heard from him. Strangely he doesn’t call for that to be overuled. 

       * Needing to drive in the hard shoulder because he might shit himself is not a loophole. Being let off for it is because the Judge suddenly sympathised for actually no legal reason. Stangely he didn’t shit himself (or even mention he was turtling) whilst speaking to the two Policeman and having to give driving license across and accept the NIP. Those discussions normally take 20-30 mins. 

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     • Energy is proportional the

       Energy is proportional the velocity squared, so increasing the limit by 10 from 70 to 80, increases the energy by about 30%.

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4. Freeman is of course right

   Freeman is of course right about the terrible delays that cyclists like this cause.  Which is why they always dominate the traffic bulletins on the radio.

   Oh…

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5. Bottom lawyer and campaigner
   Bottom lawyer and campaigner for more dangerous roads should note:

   Rule 66: “ride in single file on narrow or busy roads”. I’m on a bike with 400 mm handlebars. There’s no such thing as a narrow road. And they’re never that busy – I can make progress even at rush hour.

   Rule 59: misquoted, but I’m happy to wear light clothing. I doubt any of mine is more than 100g or so.

   Rule 68: must not… ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner. As others have pointed out, that group does not appear to have been dangerous or careless and its members’ consideration is surely that the cars can stay behind for a few minutes.

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6. The police already have
   The police already have powers to pull over a middle lane hogger and give them a fpn.
   https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/middle-lane-hogging/

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   • Except when the said hogger

     Except when the said hogger is rich and/or famous, when people like Freeman will make arguments for why the the law should be waived for that person on that occasion and work to keep the dangerous driver on the road…

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   • There must be huge number of
     There must be huge number of FPNs issued, everyday, on the M23…
     …unless the police are out dealing with cyclists having the temerity to do nothing wrong.

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7. “He’s no finnished, he’s only

   “He’s no finnished, he’s only 32” – TalkSport phone in with a scottish fellas asking why a player hadn’t been picked for the Scotland team, then being told he’s “Finnish” and mistaking that for meaning he’s too old. I spat my tea out when that happened 🙂

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   • Niemi
     Niemi

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8. Parody twitter account

   Parody twitter account

   Nick_Freemasonman : Nick is Britain’s lowest lawyer, helping criminals get away with it since 1992! He’s been nicknamed Mr arsehole!

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9. Rule 59 – I used to have a

   Rule 59 – I used to have a patterned light grey top. After cars pulling out on me 3 times during my first two rides in it, and a cycling buddy telling me he thought it was a bit too camo in some circumstances, I retired it. Never had that issue in black or other dark colours so I’m not sure why Nick thinks that following this rule’s good for Road Safety, given his expert status.

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   • Grey is the colour of dry
     Grey is the colour of dry tarmac.

     Where black is bad is shaded country lanes. As a cyclist, I’ve (not) seen too many oncoming cyclists wearing black with no lights.

     There isn’t a perfect answer, but a mix of colours, decent lights is your best bet.

     Of course, you then have to factor in the motorists who get insulted by the implication that you need to be lit up like a Christmas tree for them to have seen you and take it as a challenge anyway that requires their attention in the time honoured fashion of an advisory close pass as any proper driver believes is their duty.

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10. That piece of absolute scum,

    That piece of absolute scum, Freeman, is (and i quote from his website) “expert road traffic and criminal solicitors”. I guess we could all ring up (0161 236 7007) and ask to speak to someone to explain how they’re an “expert in road traffic” law?

     

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    • It is worth remembering the

      It is worth remembering the age old quote ‘self praise is no praise at all’

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    • Ric_Stern_RST wrote:

      That piece of absolute scum, Freeman, is (and i quote from his website) “expert road traffic and criminal solicitors”. I guess we could all ring up (0161 236 7007) and ask to speak to someone to explain how they’re an “expert in road traffic” law?

       

      — Ric_Stern_RST

      As he is an “expert road traffic and criminal solicitors” perhaps we should all contact him asking to mount a defence, as we are being prosecuted for riding with impunity, not wearing high viz, riding in front of cars, riding on dangerous windy roads,  not riding at the speed limit etc etc

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    • probably, the best thing that

      probably, the best thing that could happen is he is run over by someone he got off. 

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11. There is an interesting point
    There is an interesting point about perception on that tweet about the number of bad cyclists.

    As both a driver and a cyclist, I actually see very few bad cyclists – and my criteria are likely to be different from that twitterer. To me, the bad cyclists are those in the gutter putting themselves at risk, being a bit unaware of how to interact. I’ve seen a few teenagers on bikes on suicide rides in my time, but your average lycra-clad hate object? I’ve seen a handful, but generally I see cyclists using the road properly. Mr Loophole and co. see a cyclist and immediately count them as a bad cyclist, therefore he imagines there are millions deserving the police attention – it certainly is my experience that many drivers abuse me for cycling appropriately.

    In the last year: How many motorists have I seen running red lights – dozens. How many sprinting for amber with plenty of time to stop – hundreds. How many motorists deliberately intimidating cyclists – hundreds. How many cars have pulled out forcing me to avoid them dozens, how many cyclists, about a dozen. How many motorists have intimidated me in my car for driving at the speed limit – countless. How many drivers have I seen driving recklessly at speed – more lads in sheds racing around than I’ve seen spotty oiks on bikes doing wheelies down the middle of the road. How many times has Mr Loophole driven above a speed limit that he personally thinks is inappropriate, and how often has he been passed on the motorway by a faster car while driving at his interpretation of the speed limit?

    Yes, there are cyclists that make me wince with their riding, but generally they only risk themselves, the statistics prove that bad drivers kill thousands of people. If driving was Coronavirus, we would all be on lockdown.

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    • Agreed, if all cyclists were
      Agreed, if all cyclists were made to complete a proficiency (bikeability?) test would drivers perceive an increase or decrease in ‘bad’ cyclists?

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      • How about if all motorists
        How about if all motorists were required to pass cycle proficiency as a pre-requisite to applying for a provisional driving licence?

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    • IanMSpencer wrote:

       If driving was Coronavirus, we would all be on lockdown.

      — IanMSpencer

      I think this is a quite ridiculous statement as there are typically 1800 road deaths a year, and there were over 100,000 covid deaths despite any restrictions. Even the term lockdown is a slight exageration, as no one was stopped from leaving their home, and no one was challenged for going out for exercise. Even the few instances where people were challenged for driving to exercise were later confirmed to be over reach.

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      • wycombewheeler wrote:

         If driving was Coronavirus, we would all be on lockdown.

        — wycombewheeler

        I think this is a quite ridiculous statement as there are typically 1800 road deaths a year, and there were over 100,000 covid deaths despite any restrictions. Even the term lockdown is a slight exageration, as no one was stopped from leaving their home, and no one was challenged for going out for exercise. Even the few instances where people were challenged for driving to exercise were later confirmed to be over reach.— IanMSpencer

        Whilst I would agree that this rhetoric is a bit OTT, there was a story on the BBC about deaths in Mental health institutions. I think the number was 240/annum. This is obviously not acceptable particularly whilst they were in the care of the state. This problem is, however, seen as an intitutional/systemic failing and will be addressed as such – even though the individual circumastances will differ greatly.

        Now go back to 1800 road deaths. Pretty much silence from the msm as well as the authorities whose job it is to ensure our safety on public roads.

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    • Yep – will make no difference

      Yep – will make no difference to perception. Apart from the shouty people and the occasional “bloody cyclists” rant motorists are mostly oblivious to the tiny numbers of cyclists. Indeed some drivers don’t even see them… This would also make almost no difference to casualty stats because in 2020 40% of casualties were in a car, 24% pedestrians and then cyclists were down at 10%. rich_cb was quoting a figure of something like 16% for single-cycle accidents, don’t have the source on that to hand.

      I know that if…

      • you seriously reduce the danger from motor vehicles
      • … by so much so that you achieve mass cycling…
      • …cyclists will be a less “self-selective” group and you’ll also have the very young, the old, those with health conditions out on their bikes.

      …then at that point it would certainly be worth some more thought about the dangers of cyclists to themselves. But we’re not there yet. I think the number of places on earth outside of the Netherlands that are is very small if they even exist. (Copenhagen looks like it still needs to improve safety around motor vehicles…)

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    • IanMSpencer wrote:

      How many motorists have intimidated me in my car for driving at the speed limit – countless.

      — IanMSpencer

      Oh, that’s what they’re doing.  I thought they were trying to become intimately aquainted with me.

      I slow down to have a chat, and sometimes they move alongside, offer some gesture of their romantic intentions, but then they zoom off, like they’ve bottled it before I have a chance to decline.  Not my type, really.

      Hadn’t occurred to me that they were trying to intimidate me.  Either way, is it rude to laugh at them for trying?

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12. Re: the Ineos Grenadiers kit,

    Re: the Ineos Grenadiers kit, it beats me why any bike rider would want to wear a kit advertsing a new car. Besides which it’s as uninspiring as the previous versions of Ineos’ kits.

    By the same token, despite not being anti the idea of wearing a pro-team kit,  I’m not sure why anyone would want to wear jerseys that advertise despotic regimes, petro-chemical companies, flooring and window brands, casinos, a mining company, language schools (though at least there’s an attractive design element in this particular kit).

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13. Make no mistake, Nick Freeman
    Make no mistake, Nick Freeman’s ideas re cycling; Registration, licencing, annual MOT, mandatory PPE and the other nonsense restricting how and where you can ride are categorically nothing to do with road safety but are instead designed solely to make the act of cycling such a PITA that no-one will bother.

    He hasn’t even defined what the problem is that his ideas are designed to address beyond a basic complaint that cyclists are currently allowed to use the public highway. He even posts video of cyclists complying fully with both the letter and spirit of the law and makes unfounded complaints about their presence to justify his warped viewpoint.

    Unfortunately these antics play to a depressingly popular notion that cyclists should not be using the road under any circumstances. He is a danger to our hobby / choice of practical transport and a risk to the necessary changes that society needs to adopt wrt personal active travel as part of our collective response to climate change. He must be robustly challenged and certainly on MSM, the official cycling lobby, when given a right of reply, have to put up more coherent and maybe less polite spokespeople not afraid to tear his reputation to shreds.

    As for “consideration for other road users” I trust that now he knows that particular, quiet country road is frequented by groups of cyclists he will exercise that consideration for others and ask his driver to use an alternative route.

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    • Mungecrundle wrote:

      Make no mistake, Nick Freeman’s ideas re cycling; Registration, licencing, annual MOT, mandatory PPE and the other nonsense restricting how and where you can ride are categorically nothing to do with road safety but are instead designed solely to make the act of cycling such a PITA that no-one will bother.

      — Mungecrundle

      Well, either that or – has been suggested before – just to create more potential clients for himself.

      He must be robustly challenged and certainly on MSM, the official cycling lobby, when given a right of reply, have to put up more coherent and maybe less polite spokespeople not afraid to tear his reputation to shreds.

      — Mungecrundle

      Agreed – for a start, they might ask why anyone should listen to road safety advice from someone who has made his career out of increasing road danger.

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14. e-scooters in Bristol

    e-scooters in Bristol

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-59501867

    In the summer Avon and Somerset Police said the majority of riders using e-scooters in Bristol were obeying the rules of the road.

    According to the Pacts report, in a four-week period between May and June, 90 patients were seen by A&E departments in Bristol for injuries involving e-scooters.

    Of those people, 96% were the e-scooter rider, and 80% of that group had been riding hired scooters.

    Pact does acknowledge that people riding privately-owned scooters may not give full details because of fears of prosecution, meaning the data might not be 100% accurate.

    The majority of those injured (71%) fell rather than collided with a pedestrian or other vehicle.

    About a fifth came in with head injuries and three patients had either a traumatic brain injury, haemorrhage or a fractured skull.

    Although Voi, which runs many of the official e-scooter trials in the UK, recommends helmet use, only 7% of those injured were wearing one.

    Bristol’s mayor Marvin Rees said earlier this year he expected the use of e-scooters to become permanent in Bristol following a trial.

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    • I’m not surprised that

      I’m not surprised that scooter riders are falling off due to Bristol’s “roads”, but 90 patients does seem to be a lot.

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15. I’m not sure what the

    I’m not sure what the takeaway message is from this…make of it what you will…

    I think the “results” have about as much useful information in them as my horoscope.

    However, to give credit where it’s due, I suppose it is a useful example of how, if you ask enough leading questions and cherry pick some results, it is easy to manipulate surveys to give you pretty much whatever bullshit conclusion you want. This example is innocent enough because there’s no chance anyone would take its results seriously, but I’ve seen exactly the same techniques used by more “reputable” organisations and to support arguments that might have real-world consequences.  

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    • OnYerBike wrote:

      I’m not sure what the takeaway message is from this…make of it what you will…

      I think the “results” have about as much useful information in them as my horoscope.

      However, to give credit where it’s due, I suppose it is a useful example of how, if you ask enough leading questions and cherry pick some results, it is easy to manipulate surveys to give you pretty much whatever bullshit conclusion you want. This example is innocent enough because there’s no chance anyone would take its results seriously, but I’ve seen exactly the same techniques used by more “reputable” organisations and to support arguments that might have real-world consequences.  

      — OnYerBike

      I’m pretty sceptical about it tbh, Mind you I am a typical virgo…

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      • I’m arrogant enough to know I

        I’m arrogant enough to know I could do this survey better, but too lazy to bother, speaking as a typical Leo.

        For an even handed approach, better ask a Libran.

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      • Captain Badger wrote:

        I’m pretty sceptical about it tbh, Mind you I am a typical virgo…

        — Captain Badger

        Mary Whitehouse Experience:

        A belief in astrology is based on two premises: 1) That a small handful of the infinite number of gravitational masses of cosmic gas, billions of light years away… exert a direct influence on the lives… of one of the 50 million species… on one planet, in one solar system… 2) That the best person to interpret the effects is Russell Grant.

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    • If there’s something to it,

      If there’s something to it, could it be for the same reason as the “sports star” effect?

      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100202101251.htm

      Someone has always been the biggest of their peers, or the smallest, which influences their outlook, and hence their driving.

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16. Bristol City Council has

    Bristol City Council has opened a consultation on Park Row, Perry Road, Colston Stree, and Upper Maudlin Street.

    Consultation open until 16th January.

    https://bristol.citizenspace.com/sustainable-transport/park-row-consultation/

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    • High points:

      High points:

      • Making the pop-up lanes both sides of Park Row/Perry Road/Maudlin Street permanent.
      • Moving the pelican crossing by Trenchard Street car park along, to match up with the desire line from Lower Park Row to Lower Church Lane.
      • Lower Park Row to be one-way (uphill/westbound).
      • Colston Street to be one-way (downhill) from the junction by the violin shop to the junction with Lower Park Row (you won’t be able to drive all the way up Colston Street and out onto Maudlin Street).

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17. My daughter’s birthday is 7

    My daughter’s birthday is 7 April so I’d better stop her driving.  

    Well, to be fair, more because she’s only 10.

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    • Steve K wrote:

      My daughter’s birthday is 7 April so I’d better stop her driving.  

      Well, to be fair, more because she’s only 10.

      — Steve K

      Just cycled 26kms with Mrs H running various errands in central London. You certainly shouldn’t let a ten-year-old drive as their patience, manners, roadcraft and spatial awareness would embarrass the majority of the “professional” drivers.

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18. Regarding the survey on the

    Regarding the survey on the driving standards of drivers based on their Astrological star sign: being an Aries – does that mean that I’m “born under a bad sign?”

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19. “Look Mum, no hands”

    “Look Mum, no hands”

    And the comments in the article are switched off.  You’re not kidding!  We don’t want anybody highlighting the irony of who the defending solicitor is!

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    • GMBasix wrote:

      “Look Mum, no hands”

      And the comments in the article are switched off.  You’re not kidding!  We don’t want anybody highlighting the irony of who the defending solicitor is!

      — GMBasix

      Closing the comments, but then highlighting the story on here where we can comment seems a bit counter productive.

      I’ll just say I’m glad Palace appointed Patrick Vieira instead of Lampard.

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    • I won’t comment for obvious

      I won’t comment for obvious reasons on the current case, but I do note that Fat Frank is a repeat customer of Nick Freeman – on that occasion the former Chelsea star was banned for 90 days, after entering a guilty plea at the last moment according to the Daily Mirror.

      See https://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/8905465.soccer-star-banned-from-driving-for-90-days/.

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      • A case involving Freeman and
        A case involving Freeman and Cycling Mikey.

        If only we could get one of Sadiq Khan or the Surrey Traffic Police involved then I am sure Nige would self combust.

        Got to be worth going for.

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        • Sniffer wrote:

          A case involving Freeman and Cycling Mikey.

          — Sniffer

          High time UK courts were televised – I reckon that one could start a bidding war between Eurosport and ITV4 for the rights.

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          • Rendel Harris wrote:

            High time UK courts were televised – I reckon that one could start a bidding war between Eurosport and ITV4 for the rights.

            — Rendel Harris

            ITV4 please – Ned Boulting and Chris Boardman any day rather than Carlton Kirby. Mr Kirby can say he’s named after a bike, which shows parental ambition, but St Chris has a bike range named after him, which shows achievement.

20. I think I highlighted when
    I think I highlighted when the original quote from Lefevere about not wishing to setup a QuickStep womens team came out, you might disagree with alot of the stuff he says normally,but occasionally he is spot on like here, in that there just arent enough top tier level riders in the womens peloton to make it feasible,so by investing in the junior ranks its likely to lead to a better pool & quality of riders coming through.

    So I’m not really sure what Deceunincks CEO point was, other than it gains exposure for them.

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    • Surely both are needed. There
      Surely both are needed. There’s little point in a great grass roots programme if the elite level is broken.

      One of the problems for women’s elite road cycling is that money is so tight that pay for domestiques has always been awful, so riders without some other support struggle. Job security system is poor as well – teams fold as sponsors are few. That means talented riders drift off to normal jobs or other possibly other sports. Surely the elite level is where the sponsorship opportunities are, with TV exposure, such as it is.

      I don’t know if Lefevere’s decision will make things better, but we can be sure it will be an interesting story. I just hope for the right reasons.

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      • at UCI wwt level, which is

        at UCI wwt level, which is the level Lefevere would be expected to set a Quickstep team up for, the riders get a minimum wage, next season its 27,000 Euros, by 2023 it will match the minimum mens pro tour level.

        sponsors are as in any sport,especially at the moment,always tricky to come by,but most of the top wwt teams seem stable enough currently, even if occasionally you worry if some teams arent delivering the results sponsors want.

        but there arent enough quality riders at wwt level to support another pro team be that Quickstep or Ineos Grenadiers or whoever, Lefevere highlighted I think youd want a  van der Breggen, D’hoore (both who have now retired) and a van Vleuten on your team to stand any chance of winning a race or stage, so youd end up with a pro-conti level team at best, but paying for a wwt team instead, which is a sure fire way of folding very quickly.

        so it absolutely makes more sense to tackle the problem from the junior/lower rank levels with developing the talent where all the issues you highlight are preventing riders making it to wwt level in the first place by giving them the pathway to wwt.

        Deceuninck are sponsoring a womens pro conti team,setup mainly as a trade team for a group of cyclocross riders, they havent applied to wwt level, of note NXGT (the team Lefeveres company is working with) have.

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21. You missed out (deliberately?

    You missed out (deliberately?) Nick Freeman’s knock-out blow to Surrey Police (and I use “Police” in the loosest sense of the word):

    Highway code Section 68 (emphasis mine):
    Cyclists should not carry a passenger on their bicycle, unless it has been build to carry one. They must not ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner. Cyclists must not ride under the influence of alcohol or drugs (including some medications).

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    • It’s OK, I’ve responded to

      It’s OK, I’ve responded to Nick’s tweet to that effect, pointing out that consideration doesn’t mean “giving way”, and that they probably have considered everybody and descided that it is in everybody’s best interests for them to continue as they are.

      I’m fairly sure he’ll go away now.

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      • Completely disagree.
        Completely disagree.

        Having a leisure ride without undertaking a real journey (as the net distance travelled is zero) on a major road, knowing full well that you’re going to hold up others, is objectively “inconsiderate”.

        It would be great to get judgement on this from a senior judge to act as a precident for future cases with similar intent.

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        • Garage at Large wrote:

          Completely disagree. Having a leisure ride without undertaking a real journey (as the net distance travelled is zero) on a major road, knowing full well that you’re going to hold up others, is objectively “inconsiderate”. It would be great to get judgement on this from a senior judge to act as a precident for future cases with similar intent.

          — Garage at Large

          Even your favourite lawyer isn’t trying your completely spurious ‘real journey’ argument.

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          •  i think Garbage is Nick. 

             i think Garbage is Nick. 

          • efail wrote:

             i think Garbage is Nick. 

            — efail

            I certainly think Nick is garbage.

          • Is Nige now saying that a

            Is Nige now saying that a leisure ride, home and round the lanes then back home (for example), isn’t a real journey? Wait until they hear about ocean cruises…

          • brooksby wrote:

            Is Nige now saying that a leisure ride, home and round the lanes then back home (for example), isn’t a real journey? Wait until they hear about ocean cruises…

            — brooksby

            It’s not a new one from him. Dictionary definition suggests a journey is from one place to another, therefore a round trip isn’t a journey in Nigel’s book.

          • brooksby wrote:

            ….Wait until they hear about ocean cruises…

            — brooksby

            Never done one of those by bike….

          • Captain Badger wrote:

            ….Wait until they hear about ocean cruises…

            — Captain Badger Never done one of those by bike….— brooksby

            I suppose the deck boards around the promenade deck are a bit like velodrome boards? Maybe just ride around and around.

            But then Nige would still say it’s not a journey…

          • Captain Badger wrote:

            ….Wait until they hear about ocean cruises…

             

            — Captain Badger Never done one of those by bike….— brooksby

            You’re definitely missing out! “But what about under the waves” I hear? That’s available too – and indeed was a thing long before “bicycles” or pedal-propelled contraptions.

          • Steve K wrote:

            Completely disagree. Having a leisure ride without undertaking a real journey (as the net distance travelled is zero) on a major road, knowing full well that you’re going to hold up others, is objectively “inconsiderate”. It would be great to get judgement on this from a senior judge to act as a precident for future cases with similar intent.

            — Steve K

            Even your favourite lawyer isn’t trying your completely spurious ‘real journey’ argument.— Garage at Large

            Several here have been fishing for Garage, N, L before around this point and strangely he wouldn’t bite…

          • Nige didn’t bite about the 35
            Nige didn’t bite about the 35 classic Land Rovers going for a not journey in the New Forest blocking a single track road for other motorists on their vital missions.

        • Garage at Large wrote:

          Completely disagree. Having a leisure ride without undertaking a real journey (as the net distance travelled is zero) on a major road, knowing full well that you’re going to hold up others, is objectively “inconsiderate”. It would be great to get judgement on this from a senior judge to act as a precident for future cases with similar intent.

          — Garage at Large

          Lol. But Nige, you claim to be a cyclist yourself. Are you lying about that, are you lying about thinking leisure cycling is by definition against the Highway Code or are you lying about both?

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          • Wingguy wrote:

            Lol. But Nige, you claim to be a cyclist yourself. Are you lying about that, are you lying about thinking leisure cycling is by definition against the Highway Code or are you lying about both?

            — Wingguy

            I wonder if Nige also feels the same about every classic car rally that goes on where people randomly drive their relics from a byegone age round the countryside for no reason resulting in a net zero distance journey….. Or the hoards of people with their caravans who do nothing productive on their net zero distance journeys. 

            Of course not because Nige will be towing his caravan in his clapped out drop top MGB….

          • The whole idea that all car

            The whole idea that all car drivers are going on important journeys is nonsense anyway.

             

          • hirsute wrote:

            The whole idea that all car drivers are going on important journeys is nonsense anyway.

            — hirsute

            Loopy’s attention-seeking stuff is beneath contempt and Garage’s trolling is no better.

            The Law makes no distinction as to the purpose of your journey, regardless of mode of transport or speed at which it is undertaken. Any trip is a ‘real’ journey, as Garage-boy knows perfectly well. What a tosser.

            

22. Gotta feel a bit sorry for Mr
    Gotta feel a bit sorry for Mr Loophole here. Based on his standards of being inconsiderate – which unfortunately some people don’t appear to grasp is an opinion not a fact – it would appear to me its impossible to use a vehicle that expels a lot of harmful gases and particulates in a considerate way.

    But trooper that he is he ensures it doesn’t go unnoticed.

    Shame as with all things according to one of his fans not all of his ideas are necessarily bad – I’m looking at you lane hoggers. However he’s in danger of becoming to road safety what Hitler was to vegetarianism – not very helpful.

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    • We were all doing so well

      We were all doing so well until you mentioned vegetarianism and lost the argument. I can hear the vegans revving up…

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23. I’m beginning to suspect that
    I’m beginning to suspect that there is a growing number of people have realised that being racist/homophobia etc is no longer generally acceptable, so have directed their small minded irrational bile towards the next most convenient ‘other’ group that they could identify.

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24. I’m glad to see that a QC –

    I’m glad to see that a QC – so an actual senior lawyer – has put loopy in his place.

    Take it from a lawyer who does not specialise in ‘loopholes’, this riding is completely legal. Just carry on. https://t.co/CnbUkwzDCU

    — Martin Porter KC (@MartinPorter6) December 3, 2021

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25. maybe Mr Loophole gets his

    maybe Mr Loophole gets his name because it feels like for the past 2 days we have been stuck in an eternal loop with him on this going nowhere terribly fast and not something I suspect will ever conclude in agreement among the separate groups however long its kept going.

    though Ive no doubt the Sunday papers will pick the ball up, and continue the thread over the weekend, so expect the Express, Mail or Telegraph or whatever paper Mr lawyer type appears in most, to chime in with even more articles on it.

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    • No, there is almost universal
      No, there is almost universal agreement.

      We just have Nick and Nige on the otherside.

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      • but youll never get the likes

        but youll never get the likes of Nick lawyer type to agree on this, they made their mind up, and no matter how many bits of legislation, highway code, legal precedents people quote at him, and it doesnt matter if they are just JoeTwitter user, Jeremy Vine, some other lawyer type or even the Surrey Road cops,or how many there are that outweigh his lone opinion, none of them will change his mind on this

        he isnt going to suddenly go, oh yes wait a minute now I see your point, and concede cyclists are allowed to ride like that, so why bother even attempting to engage, it just boosts his profile so he gets on more radio talk shows, in more newspapers presented as this so called “expert” on road law.

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        • True, but none of Nick’s
          True, but none of Nick’s ideas are going to come to pass. He is a malign influence, but I doubt he has few fans. Even those that don’t ride bikes don’t respect him, people generally don’t like the rich and famous getting away with things they can’t. Current 2020 Christmas Party furore is part of that.

          The point I was making is there is only one individual on this forum who is supportive of Freeman, everyone else sees him for what he is. A man with little talent and few scruples who has found a way to earn significantly.

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26. I’m sure he’s not as thick as

    I’m sure he’s not as thick as he appears- he’s just what you’d expect: an unprincipled money-grubbing shyster playing to his chosen audience of dangerous drivers with no thought or sympathy for the road users he views as scum.

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27. Do you want angry drivers

    Do you want angry drivers behind the wheel of over a tonne worth of metal flying down the road?

    Please, Please! Surrey Road Cops, come to Lancashire where you could nick most of TacOps for encouraging offences like 32 tonnes of tipper lorry crashing through red lights at 50+ mph. This is FX62 AYH crossing the Stop line over 1.6 seconds after the lights turned red, generously forgiven by Lancashire Constabulary who didn’t want to upset the driver by even writing to him about the offence- unless it isn’t even an offence in Lancashire any more.

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28. The Daily Mail has now

    The Daily Mail has now weighed in on the Frank Lampard / Nick Freeman / CyclingMikey story.

    “Vigilante Mike van Erp, 49… the Lyrca-clad cyclist… and full-time roller skating instructor” the Mail states.

    Shoddy reporting as per usual, Mike has to be at least in his 60s?

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    • “Over the course of his
      [I]”Over the course of his vigilante career, van Erp claims to have shopped more than 350 drivers breaking the law last year alone, …”[/i]
      Shoddy writing too.

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      • Sriracha wrote:

        [I]
        Shoddy writing too.

        — Sriracha

        And that is just Nigel.

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      • Shoddy wirting from the mail?

        Shoddy writing from the mail? Well I never, especially on facts.  Vigilante for one. If he is classed as one then every neighbourhood watch or “helpful eyewitness” is one. 

        Lyrca clad cyclist. Not sure if the “Top” Economist wrote that or the Heil, however does he? Most pictures I see of him doesn’t show him clad in Lyrca when cycling. Still haters got to hate. I mean I’m sure Lampard can’t afford a car which has bluetooth connections now he is out of work.  Lets hope the trial is over fast so we can discuss it properly. 
         

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        • Speaking in completely

          Speaking in completely general terms, Mikey is normally very good, uses the most clear Hi Def equipment going and makes sure to see actual communication on the device, so that the current loophole cannot be used. With the yellow rolls driver he got recently, I believe the actual website accessed was visible. I’m looking forward to the video.

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29. Is that lawyer stupid or

    Is that lawyer stupid or something? Riding two abreast isn’t illegal. Plus – who, but a reckless idiot, would do 60mph on a road such as the one in his post? Why does he sound so indignant anyway? He has that stupid tone about him, like, er . . ‘We want our country back’ sort of stupid indignation. 

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30. My final (probably) comment
    My final (probably) comment on Loopy. I don’t think the timing of his posting is a coincidence – his petition closes on 7 December and he’ll be desperate to get it to the 10,000 threshold to get a response (as I type this he’s still just over 500 short). I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t go out for a drive looking for a chance to film something.

    Sometimes it can feel that half the country is against cyclists, so I’m quite encouraged by the fact his petition has been a damp squib.

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    • Freeman gets publicity, but
      Freeman gets publicity, but not many of the public will like / support him. Even with all the self publicity, few care what he says.

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      • Sniffer wrote:

        Freeman gets publicity, but not many of the public will like / support him. Even with all the self publicity, few care what he says.

        — Sniffer

        I think you’ve misunderstood the point of advertising…

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        • chrisonatrike wrote:

          Freeman gets publicity, but not many of the public will like / support him. Even with all the self publicity, few care what he says.

          — chrisonatrike

          I think you’ve misunderstood the point of advertising… — Sniffer

          In terms of finding clients for his services, yes I am sure his tactics work well.

          My point was that nobody in their right mind would believe he is going to be influential in the direction of roads policy.

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31. Blue riband lawyer Nick
    Blue riband lawyer Nick Freeman has released a “satirical” cycling video in an apparent attempt to drag his parliamentary debate petition over 10,000 signatures.

    Enjoy – https://mobile.twitter.com/TheMrLoophole/status/1467558781789868034?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

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    • Garage at Large wrote:

      Blue riband

      — Garage at Large

      That takes the biscuit.

      I’ll pass thanks

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      • Taxi…

        Taxi…

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        • Yes, time to Breakaway. I
          Yes, time to Breakaway. I have been Yoyo’ing off the back of the Club ride for a while.

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