Alliance of British Drivers schooled for suggesting cyclists take test to use roads; Have you ever seen a more worn chainring?; Could you steal Pogačar’s KOM?; Vaughters talks cheese; Kristoff 1-0 iPhone; CAR BACK!; Headwind hell + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
Alliance of British Drivers schooled for suggesting cyclists take test to use roads
The Alliance of British Drivers claims to be a voluntary organisation promoting the interests and concerns of Britain’s drivers. On Tuesday, the Daily Express quoted Paul Biggs from the Alliance as part of their ‘Highway Code fury’ special, which also included TalkRadio ranter Mike Graham, of course.
In the story, Biggs said it was “bizarre untrained cyclists are still allowed on the roads”, and as a “keen leisure cyclist” himself, he thinks “it seems crazy to allow cyclists on the roads with no requirement to have at least passed a cycling proficiency test or to have even read the Highway Code.”
Now, the Alliance proudly shared the Express story on Facebook to the monumental 2,012 people who like the page, we assume expecting a triumphant response of support from motorists everywhere…instead it turned into a very one-sided lesson…
Rob Devey started the debate fairly sensibly, pointing out how many more cars would be on the road if you start building barriers to alternative forms of transport like, I don’t know, cycling? Christopher Hirst questioned if the Alliance wants all kids to have to pass a test before whacking the stabilisers off?
Danny Angus asked if, by the same logic, pedestrians should need a test to cross the road too…wait until the chicken finds out.
Andrew Ballard added: “What ‘problem’ would this solve? Let’s look at how effective driving tests have been for drivers, in terms of road and street harm: five people killed per day, every day on our roads, around 70 more seriously injured. Some of those aren’t even on the roads. So mandatory tests and licencing of drivers doesn’t prevent road harm or property destruction. So I ask again, what ‘problem’ would licencing cyclists solve?” The Alliance opted against replying to that particular comment…
Bob Carter reckoned “drivists” doing a Bikeability course would be a better use of everybody’s time, while Kas Graham suggested a retest for motorists every ten years too.
Of course, some agreed with the Alliance’s calls, we’ve covered these sorts of replies before, just copy and paste from any previous anti-cyclist bingo…road tax, insurance, accountability, ‘you wear dark clothing’, red lights…sorry if you’ve just fallen asleep at your desk…
Jonathan Vaughters asks the big question...
People have been asking me: Which is your preferred pre-workout soft cheese? I go with Pont L’Eveque over Savigne-les-Beune or Epoisses if it’s a heavy deadlift or squat day. If it’s Vo2 intervals on the bike? Delice de Bourgogne is the way to go. @TeamEFCoaching
— Jonathan Vaughters (@Vaughters) February 16, 2022
It’s got to be a cheesestring…(my views do not reflect the opinions of my employer, these words are entirely my own and do not reflect the values of anyone who works at road.cc)
Alexander Kristoff 1-0 iPhone
Kristoff vs iPhone: 1-0 https://t.co/eZIn4YoL8i
— Magnus K. Aarre (@magnusaarre) February 16, 2022
Ignorant spectators’ phones getting smashed is one of the more underrated aspects of the sport we love…
Clever from Nibali, slyly drop the shoulder sending her flying. The sort of dark arts I’m sure we’ll be seeing from Diego Simeone’s Atletico side in the Champions League next week. Less subtle from Kristoff, although during a full sprint it is definitely harder, and more dangerous, to change your course…
I can’t think of many riders who you’d like to ride into your outstretched arm less than the big Norwegian. I imagine it’s not dissimilar to having a fridge smash into you…
At the finish the Intermarché-Wanty-Gobert hardman was angry, but not with the fan. Instead, Bora-hansgrohe sprinter Jordi Meeus was the recipient of the former Flanders winner’s wrath…
“At the finish I asked him ‘why the fuck did you change line?’ He said he had to go there but I don’t agree. He moved me into the barriers and I hit a lot of spectators with my shoulder, so I’m not very happy about it.”
Have you ever seen a more worn chainring?
Sorry to go all Clarkson on you, but this might just be the most worn chainring…in the world…
As Performance Cycles said in their post, it’s almost impressive how worn it is. It certainly makes me feel better about pushing my chainrings through another winter…I mean, you’d rather have nice shiny new ones for summer, right?
No word where this rider lives, but from the lack of little ring use we’re thinking the Netherlands or somewhere similarly pancake-like.
At least we all know what a well-worn chainring looks like…forget changing them when they look like shark’s teeth, just wait until there is literally nothing left for the chain to sit on…
Another reply joked they’ve got at least another year left on that, while someone else suggested they save some weight and take off the little ring while they’re at it…
Cue everyone tagging their riding pals who take a more Laissez-faire approach to bike maintenance…
How to steal Tadej Pogačar's KOM: a simple guide...
Step one: be one of the best time triallists/cyclists in the world (if not, don’t bother with step two).
Step two: ride as hard as you can.
Step three: hope Pog was taking it easy that day.
Victor Campenaerts made it his training camp mission to nab a KOM from Tadej Pogačar. As you can see from this clip, he unsurprisingly had to go quite deep to get it. The Lotto Soudal rider knocked 13 seconds off the double Tour champ’s record, setting a new best of 24:37 for the popular 9.71km winter training climb in south east Spain.
So how many watts do you need to beat Pog? 413 if you’re Victor C whose heart rate averaged 192bpm during the 23.7km/h ascent…they’re built differently, these pro riders…
“During the climb I went full throttle. When I got to the top, our doctor said I looked more tired than after my world Hour Record,” Campenaerts told Het laatste Nieuws.
“I absolutely do not want to think or say that I am a good climber, let alone a stage racer. I analysed Tadej’s effort well and he lost a lot of time on a gravel strip, which he probably didn’t know well. There I made the difference and on the steep sections uphill I held up well. I am sure that if Tadej wants, he can certainly take that KOM back, but for a good junior or newbie this will be impossible.
“What’s the point of this KOM? Not much. My trainer told me to do 20 kilometres ‘all out’ twice and then I chose that climb for the second part of the exercise. I had a good time and know that I am in good shape for the opening weekend. And the most important thing is that tonight I will go to sleep with a blissful feeling. The mental front is excellent.”
Throwback to when road.cc Liam stole Pog's KOM?
Of course, it’s not just Victor Campenaerts who knows how to steal Pog’s KOMs…road.cc Liam, who you’ll know if you’re a regular over on our YouTube channel, flew up the final section of Luz Ardiden last summer to top a leaderboard including the Tour de France champ, as well as Olympic champ and Tour podium finisher Richard Carapaz…
Maybe road.cc should send a team to the Tour? Spoiler alert: we definitely shouldn’t…has an entire team missed the time cut on the opening stage?
CAR BACK!
Turns out there’s an even more British language debate than lunch/dinner/tea/supper…
Is it car up/car back, car front/car back, nose/tail? I’ve always been a car up/car back kind of rider, it never seemed confusing…until I read the comments on our ‘Know your group riding signals and calls’ feature.
Best comment award goes to ‘dodgy’: “In our club, at the start of every ride, each rider is given a 10 by 10 matrix on paper, a bit like a BS bingo card that some of you may have played. Along the side are letters and up top are numbers. If a hazard is encountered, the ride leader simply shouts “A7”, the riders only need to pull their matrix card from their back pocket to look up the inference and act accordingly. Easy.
“We’ve always done it this way, why change? So far only three major incidents in three years of riding. Not bad!”
Simples.
Apparently nose/tail is a Scottish thing?
Whatever you do it’s probably best to say something (although preferably the right thing) if you want to make yourself welcome riding in a group. Popping a finger behind your back for a parked car gesture (you know the one I mean) to the stranger drafting you is always strangely satisfying…it’s the full-on ‘I know you’re there, but I’m a nice guy’ tactic. And who doesn’t love channelling their inner cricket umpire for some loose gravel? Just me? Okay…
Anyway, if you need a lunchtime rabbit hole head over to the comments section on that feature. it’ll have you questioning every word you’ve ever said on a ride…
Free speed? New Spoked training app guarantees more speed or your money back
Former Australian professional cyclist Richard Lang has created the Spoked training app that’s designed to bring together personal feedback and smart technology to provide simple, adaptive training plans for cyclists.
Spoked explains that each individual rider’s plan adapts via smart technology in response to five main variables; time in zones, the perceived difficulty, sleep, physical and mental freshness. “It is this unique blend of hard cycling data and the ‘human touch’ of personal feedback that creates a holistic experience for the riders,” claims the brand.
It has been built on the collective expertise of Dr Nic Berger, who has a Masters in Exercise Physiology and Chris Newton, an Olympic medallist and Great Britain Cycling coach.
You can trial the platform for 14 days for free before signing up to a flexible plan at £11.99/month. Promising “guaranteed results”, if you don’t improve over 30 days using the app, Spoked says it’ll give you your money back.
Headwind hell
Don’t be a hero this weekend and get carried away.
Who’s embracing time indoors? pic.twitter.com/1yIoa0B3nH
— Wiggle (@Wiggle_Sport) February 17, 2022
Makes the Dutch Headwind Champs look like a gentle Sunday spin by the seaside…
What’s the top tip in our cycling in the wind guide? Yep, stay at home and hit the indoor trainer…I’m already getting flashbacks to THAT 40mph headwind commute home. It may have been two winters ago, but it still hurts…
You can't park there, mate!
Impressive.
Everyone’s ok pic.twitter.com/ci836vLijz
— Engine 11 Position 5 (@EngineMode11) February 16, 2022
Galway councillors vote for U-turn on Salthill cycleway, prompting "disgust and disappointment"
Galway City Council votes 13 to 4 to revoke plans for Salthill Cycle Lane. pic.twitter.com/lrxCqHP4wd
— Pat McGrath (@patmcgrath) February 14, 2022
Galway City Council has voted 13-4 to reverse plans for a 3km cycle route. In September, the same councillors voted unanimously for its “urgent” rollout.
StickyBottle reports the response to the news has been furious within local cycling communities, with Galway Cycling Campaign spokesperson Martina Callanan saying she was “disgusted and disappointed”.
“Galway City Councillors are big and brave when it comes to talking the talk, but when it comes to action; they go limp, they shrivel, they’re ineffective,” she said.
The proposed plans would have seen a protected two-way cycle lane built along the water between Barna Road and Seapoint-D’Arcy roundabout.
The decision comes following a public consultation which saw more than 60 per cent of responses against the plans, and complaints from business owners that the lane would have caused “havoc”.
Cllr Peter Keane said: “In hindsight it is not the way you should do business politically. You should never vote on the hoof or vote on the blind as it pays no dividend. When we voted on this in September, we had no detailed design in front of us.”
Bike lane delivery
Thank you @sainsburys for parking in the segregated cycle lane, blocking the whole thing, outside your Croydon High Street branch.
The irony that your lorry has painted on the back a message about passing on the left, yet that is all I can do. pic.twitter.com/Dnq7ZwqXhk— CycleGaz™ (@cyclegaz) February 17, 2022
Oxford vigil for cyclist killed in crash
This one slipped through our net earlier in the week, but still worth a mention two days late. More than 100 people gathered for a vigil in memory of a cyclist who was killed in a crash involving a lorry being driven last week. The woman in her 40s died at the scene near the junction of Oxford Road and the station. Nobody has been arrested in connection with the incident.
The vigil was organised by Cyclox who have repeatedly called for safer routes for cyclists in the city. The council accepted “bold and radical” changes were needed.
Chair Alison Hill told BBC Radio Oxford the city needed to see a reduction in traffic and more segregated cycle lanes.
“We can’t have another death on Oxford roads. It is just too awful for words.”
What. A. Photo. Cycling nostalgia galore in this Pantani x Alpe d'Huez shot
Quand Marco Pantani devrait freiner dans les virages de l’Alpe d’Huez (Tour 1995). pic.twitter.com/RXWDwToHfS
— David Guénel (@davidguenel) February 16, 2022
Strade Bianche + Tom Pidcock = a match made in heaven — cyclocross world champ eyes Italian gravel as first big goal of 2022 road season
Tom Pidcock has named Strade Bianche as his first big goal of 2022 during a packed spring campaign which will see the cyclocross world champion race Milan-San Remo, Dwars door Vlaanderen, Tour of Flanders, Amstel Gold, Brabantse Pijl, Flèche Wallonne and Liège-Bastogne-Liège, if all goes to plan.
Last year, Pidcock was fifth at Strade Bianche, before going on to almost/win Amstel Gold (depending on who you ask) and Branantse Pijl. The Giro d’Italia will then be the 22-year-old’s early summer goal before a switch back to the knobbly tyres for the Mountain Bike World Championships in Les Gets.
If the Ineos Grenadiers star has two rainbow jerseys in the bag at this point, watch the hype for the punchy road worlds in Australia go through the roof…
Catch road.cc Simon talking Highway Code changes the Legal Thinking Podcast
The first episode of the Legal Thinking Podcast is online now, and features a Highway Code discussion with road.cc Simon. During the half-hour episode the group talk about what has changed, how it has been communicated and the implications for road safety.
Simon is joined by Alan Hiscox from the British Horse Society and road.cc contributor Mark Hambleton, a partner at Royds Withy King law firm and a specialist in cycling accident claims.
If you’re not already all Highway Coded out then check it out…
Guess who's back?
I can’t lie…when I heard the unmistakable piano beat and Snoop’s voice accompanied by the visual of Mathieu van der Poel walking through a hotel lobby — I feared the worst.
Surely not another pro cycling rap, please, anything but ‘Still M.V.D.P (feat. Canyon)’. Thankfully, the great showman knows to stick to his craft and it’s just an envy-inducing montage from the prodigious talent’s winter training camp in the south of Spain.
No “Astana is my team and we’re going to win” today. Just MvdP making riding a bike look effortless. The all-conquering star has had a significant time away from the bike after abandoning his ‘cross season early due to injury. But unlike you or I after a few too many weeks off, Van der Poel looks like he never left…
They want to know if he still got it
They say cycling’s changed
They wanna know how I feel about it
(If you ain’t up on thangs)
MvdP is the name
I’m ahead of my game
Sorry, I won’t do that again…
17 February 2022, 09:14
17 February 2022, 09:14
17 February 2022, 09:14
17 February 2022, 09:14
17 February 2022, 09:14
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Latest Comments
@Rendel Harris By the time someone is looking at prison time its too late. As has been proven time and time again, the severity of punishment is a poor deterrent to bad behaviour if people don't think its going to happen to them or they don't think they will be caught. Now I do think that there should be far more severe and immediate punishments for bad driving when drivers are caught but this would need to be coupled with a massive push to actually act on information/proof of bad driving. As anyone that submits footage to the police knows, its a crapshoot and certain police forces are anti-cyclist. This would try to essentially put people off misbehaving whilst driving before they cause an accident rather than getting the tired old excuse of "it was a single dangerous incident, they definitely don't do this all the time and their luck finally ran out". Perhaps it should go even further and if you have a history of speeding and you hurt someone speeding, that is looked upon in a very dim light.
Can we talk about “Washing up liquid contains a lot of salt – not a great idea to use a corrosive substance on a bicycle”? This is an urban myth. I have washed all of our many bikes using Fairy liquid or Ecover for decades. I’ve never found any evidence of corrosion, paint, laquer or decal wear, or any sign of anything. I regularly service forks and bearings, swapping a lot of gear, and everything has always been fine. Here’s far too much info below - long story short, Fairy liquid in 5L of hot water has a borderline-homeopathic amount of salt, it’s fine to use on a bike. ============ The honest answer is that neither Fairy nor Ecover publicly disclose the actual sodium chloride concentration in the consumer products I could find. The safety data sheets list hazardous ingredients above reporting thresholds, but sodium chloride is not reported for either product. However, we can put some realistic bounds on it. Fairy Original The SDS lists: Sodium laureth sulfate: 20-30% Lauramine oxide: 5-10% Alcohol: 1-5% No sodium chloride is declared. 15 In detergent formulations, sodium chloride is commonly used as a viscosity modifier (thickener) and is typically present at around 0.5-3%, sometimes lower. The absence of declaration suggests it is either not present or present at a low concentration that does not require reporting. This range is an informed formulation estimate, not a value stated by Fairy. Ecover The Ecover ingredient information lists: Sodium lauryl sulfate Lauryl glucoside Cocamidopropyl betaine Alcohol Lactic acid Sodium octyl sulphate Again, no sodium chloride is listed. Ecover's formulations tend to rely more heavily on plant-derived surfactants and may use little or no salt for thickening, but I could not find a published concentration. 63 What does this mean for bike washing? Let's assume a worst-case 3% salt content in Fairy. If you add: 10 mL Fairy to a 5-litre bucket Then salt introduced would be approximately: 10 mL × 3% ≈ 0.3 g salt Distributed through 5 L water ≈ 60 mg/L salt For comparison: Typical seawater: ~35,000 mg/L Lightly salted winter road spray: often hundreds to thousands of mg/L The wash bucket above: ~60 mg/L So even under a pessimistic assumption, the salt concentration is hundreds to thousands of times lower than the salt exposure your bike gets from winter roads. From a corrosion perspective, the quantity of salt introduced by washing-up liquid is essentially negligible compared with: Riding on salted roads Coastal spray Leaving winter grime on the bike Therefore my practical conclusion remains: ✅ Fairy or Ecover in a wash bucket is extremely unlikely to contribute any measurable corrosion risk. ✅ The important thing is rinsing and drying afterwards. ✅ Winter road salt is the real enemy, not washing-up liquid.
Another example of a driver's actions that would have been a straight fail in a driving test but is barely likely to lead to a disqualification... I'm wondering if having a driving licence is like a "Get out of jail free" card...
Yes indeed. I have a version of the R8100 and you definitively need ceramic for the socket.
@perce I'm not sure I agree with that. I think thats just confirming that he is take fully responsibility and recognises that the cyclist could have done nothing to mitigate it.
If we don't fight it now, we'll all end up forced to wear baggy shorts!
@Rendel Harris Agree, I am baffled that the 84 year old who is now banned from driving for year can then start driving again without a retest. We should be re-tested regularly.
@mitsky Just checking the figures and apparently the 2026 average cost is £58,000 per year per prisoner; worth noting that is only the direct cost, you then have to factor in ten years of lost tax income from the prisoner, ten years that the prisoner is making no contribution to society as a worker or as a consumer, plus the fact that if they were the primary breadwinner very likely the costs will include benefits for their family as well. None of which should be a reason for keeping violent recidivists out of prison of course, nor drug/drink drivers who kill, but it is a factor worth considering for lower-level offences.
@Surreyrider I ride in Surrey a fair bit and absolutely many do look like that but the point is they all *think* they're driving perfectly reasonably (as one discovers when remonstrating with someone who's skimmed one by 30cm, "I gave you masses of room") so deterrent penalties have little effect. That's why we need to strike at the root cause and actually train drivers properly and test them stringently (and more than once over the course of a potential 70+ years of driving, it's absolutely absurd that competence and knowledge in what for most people is the activity in their life that will run the biggest risk of killing people you never have to have your qualifications renewed).
@mitsky Imprisonment currently costs over £50k p.a. per prisoner and obviously that will rise over the course of a ten-year stretch with inflation. Regarding culpability and mitigating sentences etc, of course I'm not against condign punishment for drivers who kill (and cyclists on the tiny, tiny handful of occasions when this happens), including prison as appropriate; I was objecting to the ridiculous and oft-repeated demand of MM that drivers who kill cyclists must get ten years, "no excuses, no exceptions".
77 thoughts on “Alliance of British Drivers schooled for suggesting cyclists take test to use roads; Have you ever seen a more worn chainring?; Could you steal Pogačar’s KOM?; Vaughters talks cheese; Kristoff 1-0 iPhone; CAR BACK!; Headwind hell + more on the live blog”
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Does Road.cc have any advice on how to ride in a cyclone or a whirlwind?
Many thanks.
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Flintshire Boy wrote:
Probably number 1 on their list of “secrets”: Stay at home and hit the indoor trainer.
Reminds me of the time that Tsunami invited Cyclone, Earthquake, and Drought to a tea party.
Rudely, none of them turned up, so Tsunami had a silent tea.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Just like the silent P in swimming pool?
Flintshire Boy wrote:
It’s generally good practice to find a witch to land on.
Miss Gulch (aka Wicked Witch
Miss Gulch (aka Wicked Witch of the West) did ride a bicycle in a tornado… 😉
Awavey wrote:
…and she was popping a sick wheelie, too
Awavey wrote:
an important cautionary tale, that did not end well for her as I recall.
She just needed some decent
She just needed some decent waterproofs that’s all, every cyclist runs into that problem 😉
Awavey wrote:
I had to Google this but you may have changed how I see WoO forever.
vthejk wrote:
It’s generally better to avoid confrontation out there. In the case of Kansas, Dorothy, et al v Oz, a lot of trouble would have been avoided if the house had simply waited until the witch had cleared before landing, even though she should arguably have given priority. As emphasised in the new rules, a large house should give priority to a vulnerable rider. I think we should all take note.
Witches say changes in
Witches say changes in Highway Code causing havoc and they’re more likely to collide with vehicles on roundabouts as fewer cars are travelling widdershins now. They feel it has also caused more conflict with the Witch of the West reporting being beeped at while leading a chain-gang of winged monkeys. (The monkeys grumbled that it wasn’t their fault – if the Witch hadn’t been wearing a golden helmet they wouldn’t have been forced to follow her).
GMBasix wrote:
Is Dorothy, therefore, the perfect allegory of that motorist who ‘didn’t see you there’? Though of course these damned witches do always wear dark clothing.
vthejk wrote:
There has to be a moment when everybody realises that Dorothy is only the hero because the story is told from her pov. What this says is that automated vehicles/dwellingplaces are not infallible, and we need to
sort out liability issuesstop them from hitting things as a priority.Same issue as that golf club.
Same issue as that golf club. Entitled kids feel they’re the right to park their houses anywhere they like.
GMBasix wrote:
I won’t lie, I’d never given it a second thought but the comment about Miss Gulch being the Wicked Witch was enlightening! Of course Dorothy WANTED all of it to happen didn’t she.
Flintshire Boy wrote:
Do short loops.
We’ve added a link to our
We’ve added a link to our cycling in the wind feature, it’s also on the homepage. hawkinspeter is right though, tip number one is rather predictably stay at home and hit the indoor trainer. Better to miss one day of training than several months with an injury.
I think Cycling Proficiency
I think Cycling Proficiency or Bikeability should be mandatory for all children at a certain. I’ve been told that it is, but I know that two of my children didn’t have the opportunity to do it because the school didn’t support it. In cases like this, it should have been offered to them outside of the school setting.
As a driver, I’m also up for being retested every so many years. Whether it’s theory or practical, I would be happy to do it. The revision of the Highway Code would have been an ideal time to retest drivers on their theory to make sure that they have updated themselves on the revisions.
Yes, Bikeability (I think
Yes, Bikeability (I think this effectivelty replaced Cycling Proficiency – although I’m happy to be proved wrong) should be compulsary in schools – whatever the modern equivalent of Junior School is these day (I have no kids – can you tell?). It would not only improve bike handling and road skills for kids, but show them how easy and fun cycling is, and therefore encourage more of them to do it more often. A veritable win!
Maybe it could work a bit
Maybe it could work a bit like this?
https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/bicycle-training-in-the-netherlands/
There’s often suggestions that children should be riding earlier rather than later (cf. Sustrans NCN expansion – “safe for 12-year-olds”.
https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2010/08/dutch-children-must-cycle-at-earlier.html
Note that: the streets are safe enough that children can be tested in real conditions. Much younger children do play-based traffic education at school. There are also some off-road practice environments (“Traffic Gardens”). I’m not sure but presumably this is part of the national school curriculum. Compare the UK where we do indeed have some of this in schools but we seem to rely on charities for this (albeit with government funding). (Update – this is semi-official and there’s a UK national standard for training BUT I don’t think it’s actually formally on the curriculum of the Dept. for Education – CUK were petitioning back in 2013)
(Update on “cycling proficiency” which many will have enjoyed times ago – that was ROSPA from 1947-2007 and apparently replaced with Bikeability then. Info from here).
I live in the Netherlands
I live in the Netherlands (originally from England though). Checked this with my partner who has a kid. She tells me that bike lessons are part of school curriculum, both practical and theory. There’s an exam to be taken during year 6, so the kids are prepared for cycling to highschool by themselves or with friends. Makes sense.
First article wrote:
Is this guy seriously suggesting that driving tests and licenses have no effect? Would he like to cycle on roads where no drivers had to pass a test?
The obvious argument is that a car is a dangerous machine in the wrong hands in a way that a bicycle is not.
AidanR wrote:
perhaps he’s arguing for more stringent testing of drivers, before testing cyclists.
AidanR wrote:
I think he’s just calling for a solution focused approach to Road Safety. If the KPI for Road Safetly is reducing injuries and death on the roads then the solution would be to focus on those that are causing the majority of those injuries. The question simply asks for evidence that having a cycling test would effect that KPI.
BTW, I would ask them for evidence on how many adult cyclists don’t have any training – ie hold a driving licence, have taken cycling proficiency or bikeability. I think it would be a very small percentage and therefore enforcing training would have incredibly low impact and not be cost effective.
When you’ve had an argument with a driver, who is also a cyclist, about road positioning then you realise that more training may not have the outcome they are looking for. Who am I kidding, they want training as a barrier to entry so they hope to get less cyclists.
IanMK wrote:
Unfortunately there are a growing number of motorists who want to blame their failings on the new changes to the highway code….. This is one person’s view on Facebook
He clearly hasn’t seen the pedestrian from his point of view and wasn’t expecting to stop.
I’m sure insurance companies will get fed up with this and hopefully get the government to alter the rules.”
Let’s see how many of these type of accidents actually do happen, my guess in thousands per year.
What I maybe didn’t stress enough though was that the driver behind me had to stop in a place that doesn’t normally have cars stopping in for a reason he couldn’t see.”
I’m not defending the driver who was behind me, I’m just saying that accidents of this nature will become more prevalent as drivers get caught not concentrating.
Also I’ve had a few conversations with others who have been in exactly the same predicament as me this week.”
between each of his comments there were a number of people saying things like
It seriously beggars belief how some of these people have not had more accidents than they have
Really! an Audi driver gave
Really! an Audi driver gave way to a pedestrian. That’s obviously made up.
More seriously, can they refer to the section of the “new” Highway Code that caused the crash.
IanMK wrote:
But he’s making that argument with a palpably false statement, which rather undermines the point he’s trying to make.
I understand your point, the
I understand your point, the line “Let’s look at how effective driving tests have been for drivers” is not worded well and might be used to undermine an otherwise solid argument.
IanMK wrote:
While at the same time, it is reasonable to ask, “if every year, iro 1700 people are killed and tens of thousands seriosuly injured, and mostly attributable to motorists, how can we improve the efficacy of driver training and licensing in this country?”.
I don’t disagree with cycle training (and, more emphatically, as a requisite for a driving licence), because that is very readily rolled out across primary and secondary schools, with ‘booster’ sessions. It shoudl also be a requisite for CPC trianing for motorists.
GMBasix wrote:
Bikability training is down to the Laocal Authority and Head of the school, some friends of mine are Bikability instructors and state that one of the largest high schools on the area,which has a joint campus with schools that cater for Year 1 upwards, refuses to allow Bikability training because the childrens bike’s are not maintained. He/she also maintains that the road access to the scholl is not safe to cycle on (sic) due to the large numbers of parents dropping their children off by motor vehicle.
This is in a “ribbon town” with a population of approx 8 thousand and maximum distance from the school by road of 1.5 miles.
Not defending heads/governors
Not defending heads/governors per se but I have been in schools where they’re scared to offer cycle training or storage for fear of legal action by parents of any kids hurt on the road for encouraging them to cycle. IANAL but I assume such action wouldn’t have much chance – after all a school isn’t responsible if a child’s hurt walking or getting the bus home – but a government edict making it quite clear that schools cannot be held responsible for any cycling mishaps external to the school might help.
I dont think it’s about
I dont think it’s about creating barriers to entry per se, it’s coming from that angle that alot of motorists take on licences, insurance, MOT and VED that because they are things they have to have, to be legally using their vehicle on the road, then it’s only “fair” that everyone on the same road has to have the same things.
It becomes a total blind spot to them the reasons why they have to have those things to drive their vehicle and why its ludicrous to apply the same criteria to non motorised use of the roads. They simply equate road use as being a licenceable, taxable, insurable thing and cyclists are somehow getting away with it by not having to follow the same rules.
It might be a bit too
It might be a bit too conspiracy theory but I like to think that those ultimately responsible for rhetoric with such an obvious false dichotemy know exactly what they are doing. They also understannd that “fairness” is a trump card in such arguments.
I would agree that the critical thinking in those that repeat it might be lacking.
On the subject of the worn
On the subject of the worn chainring, Performance Cycles is my LBS and club who are on the edge of the Cotswolds near Cirencester. I can only imagine the size of the bike owner’s thighs!
I can’t imagine what the worn
I can’t imagine what the worn chainring has got to do with the size of somebody’s thighs. When I saw it my thought was that there is no way that chainring is rideable.
It surely cannot have been
It surely cannot have been that rideable for quite some time, so how did it get more worn. How much slippage would there have been?
And look how good condition the little ring is.
They must have been using it
They must have been using it a lot, in the Cotswolds, in order to wear it out.
I clearly know nothing about
I clearly know nothing about the Cotswolds, though it is hilly where I live and I’ve never got near wearing a chainring to that degree. Got big thighs though, according to a mate. I think his eyesight might have been a bit fuzzy though.
On stealling a KOM
On stealling a KOM
If ever I go out for a ride, trying to steal a KOM or not, and end up writing or saying anything that begins with “When I got to the top, our doctor said …..” will someone please slap me and tell me to act my age. Thank you.
The push back happens
The push back happens wherever in the world people ask for motorists to take more responsibility….. for example the good ol’ US of A
The US has around 4x the rate
The US has around 4x the rate of road deaths of the UK. That’s 11 road deaths/100,000 of population compared with 2.8/100,000 of population in the UK. Some states are really bad. North Carolina has a population of 10.6 million compared with 67 million for the UK. and yet in 2020, over 1700 people were killed on the roads in NC, compared with just over 1500 in the UK.
During the pandemic, total distances driven around the world dropped significantly. In the UK, France and most European countries, that resulted in a major drop in road deaths also. But not in the US, where quieter roads meant more US drivers took the opportunity to speed or commit DUI offences.
And still the rabid right in the US tries to claim road safety is a cunning plot by the left to deprive Americans from driving massive SUVs and pick up trucks with shitty gas mileage while not wearing seatbelts.
I work with these people.
I work with these people. They could never afford it if petrol costs were comparable to the UK. I have colleagues who commute 40-50 miles each way to work every day, in pickup trucks that get under 20 MPG US (24 MPG UK, 11.8 L/100 km) carrying one driver, no passengers, no cargo in the bed. Even here they’re paying $100 a week in fuel just to commute. A lot of it is on roads like this, posted 45-55 MPH but driven at 65-70, not the safest.
https://goo.gl/maps/Z3ezo3FycrZAQGZX6
They do mostly wear seatbelts. Interestingly, our free life insurance at work pays an extra 1x salary benefit if we’re killed on company business whilst wearing a seatbelt. I’d say a slight majority of motorcyclists (and the vast majority of Harley guys) don’t wear helmets, though.
I’ve been to the US many,
I’ve been to the US many, many times and some of my best friends are Americans 🙂
I’ve also been to a lot of the states in the middle that most visitors don’t see (visited 27 states now, more than most Americans).
Yep, I know very well how Americans like their big trucks and SUVs and how low fuel prices are. In the Southern States, vehicle condition tends to be more of a worry and seat belt use and DUI are also more of an issue in the south. Regular vehicle inspections aren’t carried out in many states, which I still find astounding.
The US states with lax/no helmet laws for motorcyclists also have the highest death and injury rates for motorcyclists, no surprise there.
I’d estimate 27 is about the
I’d estimate 27 is about the number of states I’ve been in, too. I lived in Tennessee for a couple of years, so I’ve experienced the south, too. My British grandmother couldn’t understand a word people said in rural Tennessee or Kentucky.
Here in Illinois, no vehicle inspections, except in Chicago and its suburbs where there are required emissions inspections. I don’t think any state has the equivalent of the MOT. Large trucks do get inspected at highway weigh stations, though.
Whilst recovering at home
Whilst recovering at home from major surgery I have watched loads of TV shows on Discovery, and found one about a company in Salt Lake City which restores cars and creates hot rods. Bitchin’ rides is the name of the show, Kindig It designs is the company. Whilst the work they do is without doubt the finest work I have ever seen during my almost 40 years in the motor trade, some of the cars they build defy belief. They have just created one from a 1960s muscle car, and dropped a new engine in it which has been ‘detuned’ to around produce 2000bhp. The engine is capable of between 3500-4000bhp, but the car would use a full tank of fuel to travel the length of the road outside. Every vehicle they restore or build has a new engine, which is always massive, and is tuned to the nines. Many of the customers are your typical redneck Americans who never think they’re too old to wear a baseball hat and pony tail, and love to burn rubber on the main streets.
On strong winds and middle
On strong winds and middle-aged teens stealing KOMs I recall this from BikeSnobNYC:
(On Lucas Brunelle heading to Miami to race in the hurricane) “it would appear Brunelle’s attention-seeking disorder must have flared up…”
https://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2017/09/a-brief-dispatch-today-because-of.html
Quote:
I bought what I thought was a
I bought what I thought was a free speed bike but it turned out to be heavy. And I needed to pay for my ears to be cleaned.
Quote:
You missed lycra. For some reason, wearing the most suitable clothing for this particular activity is something that triggers people as well.
FrankH wrote:
They don’t cycle, therefore don’t have the buttocks for it …
Jetmans Dad wrote:
I’ve always assumed their dislike for lycra is based on a toxic combination of envy and lust!?
SimoninSpalding wrote:
They don’t cycle, therefore don’t have the buttocks for it …
— SimoninSpalding I’ve always assumed their dislike for lycra is based on a toxic combination of envy and lust!?— Jetmans Dad
I’ve noticed that Americans
I’ve noticed that Americans who make fun of sissy cyclists in Lycra don’t make fun of these guys for some reason.
andystow wrote:
They obviously don’t want to get on Santa’s bad list
Based on their accounts as a
Based on their accounts as a registered charity and their published membership fees, the Alliance of Bad Drivers has no more than a few hundred members — fewer than many local cycling clubs and far fewer than Cycling UK, London Cycling Campaign, Camcycle etc.
Bikeability is a massive boondoggle that neither improves rider safety nor increases the number of people riding bike. It does, however, allow local authorities to appear to be ‘doing something’ for cycling without them having to face down petrosexuals like the Alliance of Bad Drivers. It’s a total waste of money, and a distraction from putting resources into building cycling infrastructure but at least it’s cheap.
There’s a strong argument that the driving test just increases petrosexual entitlement (as shown by, well, everything the Alliance of Bad Drivers ever says about licencing), increasing road danger. It’s far too easy to have any significant reductive effect on road danger. If you want to reduce road danger, you force drivers to slow down, and crack down on impaired driving (alcohol, drugs, phone use etc).
There is absolutely no way I
There is absolutely no way I’m googling petrosexual
Rua_taniwha wrote:
Is it something to do with pets?
Nah, oil I think.
Nah, oil I think.
I once googled adult only
I once googled adult only campsites as we live to go where it is quiet and no kids. I got back information on naturist sites, dogging sites, you name it.
Quote:
Were they all relatives of Roy’s?
I see what you did there…
I see what you did there….showing your age….
Dedication!! that’s what you
Dedication!! that’s what you need……
“Have you ever seen a more
“Have you ever seen a more worn chainring?” I don’t know, the picture, along with the ABD picture, doesn’t load.
eburtthebike wrote:
My browser blocked it with a DuckDuckGo warning that FarceBook will kill a kitten for every time it’s viewed or something.
hawkinspeter wrote:
That’s ok, I don’t like kittens.
eburtthebike wrote:
Yes, but they’re vital to the functioning of the internet.
I’ll just leave this here …
I’ll just leave this here …………..
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/entitled-motorists-have-ruled-the-roads-for-far-too-long
GManLondon wrote:
Nice little opinion piece (though a bit short).
GManLondon wrote:
Somebody gets it:
“Then there are those who bawl at cyclists who have exercised their right to ride in the road rather than in a joke cycle lane obstructed by lampposts and bus shelters.”
Even if they didn’t get it all right:
“Hoorah, too, for the new rule that states motorists driving into side roads must give way to pedestrians crossing those roads.”
That has always been the rule.
This is the Highway Code. It
This is the Highway Code. It isn’t law, albeit, it does state some elements of law in the text. Could it be used in some form of civil claim? Possibly.
I’m sure everyone can pick up the cue words “should” and “must” at the beginning of each section and what they represent.
Ultimately though, something a lot of road users fail to realise, is that, when crossing broken white lines, it has to be safe to do so.
Turning in to a side road? Crossing cycle lanes? Changing lanes? Those broken white lines, more often than not, come in to play
GManLondon wrote:
The HWC can be (and is) used as evidence in criminal or civil cases. It is the approved code of practice (ACOP) for driving on Britains roads, as approved by parliament, and published by the home office. In spite of the fact that not all (actually very little) of its instructions appear on the statute, it is the accepted set of directions to ensure that roads are safe (Hah!), and thus has value in the courts when determining liability or culpability. Drivers that contravene do so at their peril (although for me that peril is nowhere near great enough – I say that as a keen drivist myself).
I agree. I just can’t see how
I agree. I just can’t see how many of these new changes will be enforced though. There’s the constant use of the word “should”, which would then ask the question “when should you not?”
It suggests there are occasions when you can do something and when you cannot.
If it’s ambiguous, then can it really wholly be relied upon in a court?
GManLondon wrote:
Nothing is ever wholly relied upon on court. Diverse evidence is used to build a picture.
Supporting evidence used here is the ACOP, and that would be applied as the benchmark against which the driver may be prosecuted, and it is contextual for a given situation.
The non-adherence to the ACOP is itself evidence of culpability or liability and helps to build a case where appropriate.
Nothing is ever wholly relied
Nothing is ever wholly relied upon on court
Especially when it never gets to court, which is the case here over any traffic offence involving, or reported by, a cyclist. Lancashire Constabulary has never prosecuted anyone for close-passing a cyclist- but even if you’re tired about hearing about The Cyclist’s Greatest Enemy, it ought to be pretty clear that most UK forces are the same- that’s why we’re at NMotD 720 or so
Captain Badger wrote:
Tell that to the falsely convicted post office sub-postmasters
hawkinspeter wrote:
Fair comment well presented. I may perhaps replace “is” with “should” or even “must”….
“Should” doesn’t imply that
“Should” doesn’t imply that there are instances when you should not. It’s “Should”, not “Should mostly”. It simply means that it’s not a specific offence in law not to.