Forum Replies Created
-
Replies
-
Joeinpoole wrote:Prompted by
Prompted by the wide variety of views expressed here I’ve been doing a bit of digging in an attempt to find out what actually happened.Having done a bit of research I am now astounded that CE was convicted at all. From what I’ve read I wouldn’t even have concluded that he was guilty of the very serious crime of rape by ‘balance of probability’ … but *beyond reasonable doubt*? No way.
The complainant had never said she was raped (although apparently she may have made a previous accusation of rape). She phoned the police (12 hours after she woke up) because she awoke alone in a hotel room and her handbag and phone were missing. As it happens she’d left them in a kebab shop the night before. When the police investigated the hotel room they realised they were dealing with a couple of footballers … and a drunk girl … and went on to try and build a case of rape. There was no actual evidence of a crime having been committed so, if CE and his friend when interviewed by the police had simply replied “No comment” to all the questions, apparently the police would not have been able to charge them.
There’s a decent summary of the case here;
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans
…and this is CE’s website and a list of the ‘key and undisputed facts’;
http://chedevans.com/key-and-undisputed-facts
I’m still struggling to understand how the jury found one footballer guilty and the other not guilty. The girl says she can’t remember anything so it’s simply down to whether the jury accepted that each footballer had grounds to believe whether the girl was consenting to have sex with them. It seems very flimsy ground on which to convict a man of such a serious crime and ruin his life.
I have to say I’m a lot more sympathetic to CE now.
That crimeline writeup is interesting. If the night porter reported sounds of a couple having sex (and this is after Evans entered the room), surely by definition he didn’t just hear male voice(s) assaulting an unconscious female, but an apparently mutual consent?
As an aside, I laid off the booze because I was bored of forgetting what happened. (If you don’t remember it, then what’s the point? It may as well not have happened.) However, despite this, I can tell you that I could make rational decisions in that state.
vbvb wrote:I’m intrigued that
I’m intrigued that a freelance IT consultant seeks consumer tech advice on a cycling forum!Ha! That did occur to me, I suppose I was just thinking about it when Road.cc was in front of me and figured that there would be enough other tech-minded souls here to have a view…
mike the bike wrote:There’s
There’s no way I’m spending £750 on an 11-inch screen. No sir, I’m forking out £850 on the 13-inch.
Go on, you know you want to.I should have said that, of the Air range, it’s the 13″ that would appeal…
stumps wrote:Everyone, please
Everyone, please I don’t want this to end up in a slanging match I only wanted peoples views as I thought it was important to see how people felt.+99, this is a really interesting discussion – as said by someone else, it’s a bit more than “what tyres for wet weather”, so it would be a shame to degrade it into a slanging match or to start using personal insults.
Jimmy Ray Will
This subject… wow its a bit more engaging than ‘what tyres for a wet day’ isn’t it?So many things to think about…
Personally, I think yes, he should be allowed back into football, his job, if his employers are willing to have him back, and as commented above, if he meets all employment requirements… i.e. does he need a CRB check in place.
I am not sure ‘role model’ is an accurate description for a footballer, however I accept that a footballer is a publicity tool so I fully understand why teams/sponsors would want to distance themselves.
So for me, its up to the club and the club alone.
As for laws stopping him returning to the game, I am not sure that is necessarily fair. His conviction and sentence was based on what was felt appropriate, once he’s done his time, he has done his time IMO.
Similarly, he was sentenced on the basis that he was unrepentant and believed his innocence. If he had admitted guilt, his sentence would have been different… so again, he has done his time in relation to his stance.
As for the crime itself… wow what a shit storm. The lesson for all men is surely stay clear of proper pissed women.
And thats maybe where the chap can save some face… I wouldn’t say he should admit his guilt, but he should get out there and tell his story for good… he was convicted of a crime he believes he is innocent of because he allowed himself to get into/take advantage of a situation that exposed him to the charge put against him… avoid.
I echo the comment above however, that the current law is rather sexist… whether a women says yes or no, its up to the man to decide if that decision is made with a clear mind… ridiculous really.
So you’ve got yourself absolutely mortal and some guy fucks you up the arse. What would you be saying at that point? I imagine you’d have a pretty good idea about who was responsible.
I can’t imagine I’d be massively happy about that.
Sorry I may have gone off on a slight tangent…regarding a previous comment. If a women says no or any derivative that is implied as no, if a woman is unable to say anything at all, basically if its anything other than a yes, its a no.
Where I question my understanding of consent if a woman says yes, or clearly acts in a favourable way, but is pissed out of her head, a man can still be culpable if she changes her mind in the cold hard light of a hangover.
The above is not in direct relation to the specific case, as I have not read the details of the case, but more a general statement in relation to comments about consent.
This is also what I was trying to say as regards the discussion re consent. Of course anything other than YES is a no.
robert posts child
Btw, at no time did the victim make a complaint , she was left alone in the hotel, when she woke up she did not know what had happened or where she was. Her belongings were missing and that is why she called the police. It was their subsequent investigation that established what had happened.Ok, this bit I wasn’t aware of. Leaving aside the issue of her belongings, was it the case then that the victim simply didn’t remember what had happened? I wonder how she felt at the time about charges being pressed?
This is where the gap between perspectives becomes apparent – if I understand correctly, Ched Evans is basically arguing that the definition of rape as amended recently regarding rational consent is wrong.
For his career though, I still think he would have been better off pleading guilty (since whether he agrees with the law or not, by the definition of the very vague area of rational consent, he does appear to be guilty – I make no comment as to whether this was violent/forced), apologising and allowing himself to be rehabilitated. He would then be free to state his position on the law, why he was “guilty but in not the way that people think of when the r-word is mentioned” or whatever and, if necessary, campaign for some sort of change.
Interesting thread Stumps,
Interesting thread Stumps, there’s a number of facets to this for me:I do agree that the concept of rehabilitation is that offenders should then be able to resume a constructive role in society, but I know that I would struggle. I’m an freelance IT consultant – I’m not a role model, I don’t work with kids (or even customers – I tend to work with other IT staff within big companies), and the type of stuff I work on is quite removed from the actual ‘business’ that my clients are in (for example, my current client is a bank, but I couldn’t derive any fraudulent/personal gain from malicious access to financial stuff). Yet, ALL my contracts include declarations of criminal record or CRB checks. Were I convicted of such an offence as Ched Evans has, I would be ruined in terms of finding new contracts. So, while some are saying “others WOULD be allowed to resume work in their chosen field, why should he be treated differently?”, I would ask “I would NOT be able to resume work in my chosen field, why should Ched Evans be treated differently?
Another aspect of course is the arguments of guilt. Many are saying, quite reasonably, that he has been found guilty in criminal court, and that’s that. He at least needs to be remorseful. He, however, maintains that what he did was not a crime and that she consented to an act with both defendants. Reading between the lines, he appears to be suggesting that they all got drunk and she was happy to participate in a threesome, which she then regretted and subsequently made an accusation. What he doesn’t acknowledge is that the current law is that the lady concerned needs to be ‘able’ to give consent, and that without this, he and the other lad are still culpable.
I’ll admit to being uncomfortable with this law, since it seems, to me, to be a step backward for equality (if the female gives consent, it’s still up to the male to judge if she is capable of doing so, as if he’s the responsible adult and she’s just the child, incapable of making her own decisions). This one-way, single-gender nature of the law is not something I think is a great leap forward.
Perhaps if he’d taken a middle ground “At the time it appeared to be fully consensual, but I now accept that, having consumed too much alcohol, the victim was not capable of making a rational decision to consent, and I apologise sincerely and unreservedly for making such a mistake and taking advantage. I will now dedicate my energies to helping others understand the consequences of such rash actions” etc etc, or even to apologise but then to campaign against the single-gendered nature of the law around rational consent. Had he done either of these things, he would likely be in rather a different position now.
As for the patrons and sponsors walking away, I admire their courage to stand up and be counted, but if Evans attempts to appeal and have the conviction overturned are sucessful, that’s going to create an unholy mess for everyone concerned. What do you do, put Jess Ennis’ name back on the stand?
I didn’t click on this before
I didn’t click on this before as the title didn’t sound like something I could contribute to. However, now I’ve actually read the rest…I quit my cycling as a kid due to knee pain. My BCF coach and his physio couldn’t work out the problem, and I got disillusioned. Fast forward nearly 20 years and a few people told me that biomechanics and cycling kit had progressed markedly, so I did my research, bought products I thought were right, and got back on the bike. After a bikefit from a guy in Lancashire (NJD Sports clinic, if you can get to his location) who specialises in the foot/pedal interface, it’s all good and I can ride hard and regularly.
In a nutshell, I over-pronate to the tune of about 5mm, have externally-rotated hips, and *did* have a mild muscular imbalance.
Firstly, I’d ask whether SPDs are right for you. I can’t get on with them, it seems as if the pedal wants to dictate where my foot should be. I use Speedplays because the free-float allows my foot to go where it wants. Once you get over the initial “ooh I’m on ice skates” feeling, you forget about it.
Secondly, I’d recommend Specialized Body Geometry shoes. One of the upshots of their unfortunate keenness with the legal eagles is that the technique of building a small amount of over-pronation into the shoe is a patented innovation, so only they do it. (You could go with the semi-custom approach from Luck though – very swish without the eye-watering cost of full custom). This means that you get 1.5mm of over-pronation ‘free’ in that it doesn’t impact the amount of space in your shoe or the stack height between sole and pedal.
I then add a set of varus wedges under the insole for another 1.5mm, and a set of cleat wedges for another 1.5mm (theoretically, as this would be measured at the innermost point on the shoe, just inwards of the ball of the foot). I use the maximum-support Body Geometry insole (the +++) to support the arch.
I don’t use my normal custom orthotic insoles in my cycling shoes, because they go from heel to mid-foot, and that’s fine because walking and running are heel-posted exercises, whereas cycling is forefoot-posted so all the above are more relevant.
Hope this helps you in some way, I didn’t have to go as far as drilling new cleat holes or fitting axle extenders for the pedals. Let me know if you want any more info.
Cielo Rosso? Full custom Ti
Cielo Rosso? Full custom Ti from a British brand (obviously made in the far east though) for £700 has to be worth a look.http://cielorossobikes.com/cielo-rosso-custom-built-titanium-frames-601-p.asp
Liaman wrote:Maybe we could
Maybe we could all see how long we can maintain his (estimated) wattage for the attempt? Could be an interesting few minutes ;)One figure bandied around is 450 watts for 25 mins on a TdF climb. I tried maintaining 450 watts on a wattbike – ‘interesting’ isn’t the word I’d use!
Aye, whatever. Looking at
Aye, whatever. Looking at some of your other posts, you appear to be the new troll around here. Haven’t you got schoolwork to do or something?What?
What? 8}unconstituted wrote:
Think
Think you (and maybe some other noggins too) missed the point.Bringing political issues like hacking allegations into a situation like fake bike frames is convoluted and misguided. Ofc that would look like the pot calling the kettle black. That was the point of my post, I was holding a mirror to you.
Holding a mirror to me, my arse. My point was, it’s entirely forseeable that the Chinese judicial system would not enforce intellectual property rights, so handing over proprietary designs to a manufacturing outfit there carries obvious and visible risks.
unconstituted
Crikey has a point. I get that many products and services need to be outsourced and/or offshored to keep the brand company competitive, but if you outsource your proprietary designs to a country famous for a. it’s widespread counterfeiting, and b. evidence that even the state colludes in this practise, with efforts to hack into overseas computer systems being traced to Chinese government sources, can a company really be surprised to then find counterfeit products being made available?As opposed a country like ours that colludes in mass surveillance of its own citizens including capturing private webcam imagery? Or maybe that’s okay, and it’s our bombing and torturing of overseas nationals in cooked up neo-con war plots that you have issue with? Perhaps you don’t mind that but are opposed to the way we’re run by corporate interests, landed gentry and a bunch of self-serving career politicians ensuring wealth inequality widens?
Take your red scare sanctimony elsewhere please.
Quality rant, that! I have Chinese heritage, and if it wasn’t for Special Branch rounding up and deporting Chinese sailors (who had helped in the Allied war effort) after WWII to avoid the wrath of returning British soldiers, I would probably have stronger links to my roots (and likely a Chinese name too). That doesn’t make me blind to the realities of the market. Try searching on eBay for Zipps or Cosmic Carbones and see what you find. Tip: £300 from Shenzen says they probably aren’t real. So talking to me about the traits of Chinese culture or British government misbehavior is barking up the wrong tree sir.
As for calling me sanctimonious, er… Pot, kettle, black.
Crikey has a point. I get
Crikey has a point. I get that many products and services need to be outsourced and/or offshored to keep the brand company competitive, but if you outsource your proprietary designs to a country famous for a. it’s widespread counterfeiting, and b. evidence that even the state colludes in this practise, with efforts to hack into overseas computer systems being traced to Chinese government sources, can a company really be surprised to then find counterfeit products being made available?
