Your views please

Bikebikebike wrote:Jimmy Ray

Bikebikebike wrote:

Jimmy Ray Will wrote:

This subject… wow its a bit more engaging than ‘what tyres for a wet day’ isn’t it?

So many things to think about…

Personally, I think yes, he should be allowed back into football, his job, if his employers are willing to have him back, and as commented above, if he meets all employment requirements… i.e. does he need a CRB check in place.

I am not sure ‘role model’ is an accurate description for a footballer, however I accept that a footballer is a publicity tool so I fully understand why teams/sponsors would want to distance themselves.

So for me, its up to the club and the club alone.

As for laws stopping him returning to the game, I am not sure that is necessarily fair. His conviction and sentence was based on what was felt appropriate, once he’s done his time, he has done his time IMO.

Similarly, he was sentenced on the basis that he was unrepentant and believed his innocence. If he had admitted guilt, his sentence would have been different… so again, he has done his time in relation to his stance.

As for the crime itself… wow what a shit storm. The lesson for all men is surely stay clear of proper pissed women.

And thats maybe where the chap can save some face… I wouldn’t say he should admit his guilt, but he should get out there and tell his story for good… he was convicted of a crime he believes he is innocent of because he allowed himself to get into/take advantage of a situation that exposed him to the charge put against him… avoid.

I echo the comment above however, that the current law is rather sexist… whether a women says yes or no, its up to the man to decide if that decision is made with a clear mind… ridiculous really.

So you’ve got yourself absolutely mortal and some guy fucks you up the arse. What would you be saying at that point? I imagine you’d have a pretty good idea about who was responsible.

I can’t imagine I’d be massively happy about that.

Sorry I may have gone off on a slight tangent…regarding a previous comment. If a women says no or any derivative that is implied as no, if a woman is unable to say anything at all, basically if its anything other than a yes, its a no.

Where I question my understanding of consent if a woman says yes, or clearly acts in a favourable way, but is pissed out of her head, a man can still be culpable if she changes her mind in the cold hard light of a hangover.

The above is not in direct relation to the specific case, as I have not read the details of the case, but more a general statement in relation to comments about consent.

robert posts child

robert posts child wrote:

Jess ennis, is a blades fan, and a famous ,not to mention successful local sports woman, which is why they wanted her name on the stand.

I know who Jess Ennis is, she’s still not a footballer is she?

Unless I blacked out during that successful spell she had playing centre midfield for Sheffield United.

Poptart242 wrote:From an

Poptart242 wrote:

From an employment law perspective, it is an interesting one. It’s an exceptionally emotive subject too (and quite understandably so).

Without going into the specifics of this individual case:

People go to jail to be rehabilitated. Once they’re released, every effort should be made to integrate the individual into society. It’s one of the central pillars of our society.

But in the real world, that simply isn’t true. It _isn’t_ ‘one of the central pillars of our society’. People are disadvantaged in the employment market for all sorts of things, most of them not involving actual wicked or criminal behaviour (whistle-blowing, periods of physical or mental ill-health, political views, being caught up in scandals that they had no responsibility for, having had some ghastly clash of personalities with a previous employer, being close to retirement age, etc). I don’t see that it would be exceptionally awful if someone had a problem due to being an (apparently unrepentant) convicted rapist.

Though as I have no interest at all in football I’d be quite happy to see all the undesirables confined to playing football and so kept away from jobs that actually matter.

I will start with the
I will start with the disclaimer that I don’t live in the UK so probably haven’t seen as many details of this case as everyone else.

I think the problem isn’t as much that he did a crime and served the punishment but rather his stance on the incident now. If I have understood correctly for the reports I have seen, he is not arguing that the events didn’t happen, but that he doesn’t consider it rape. That suggests he has the view (though perhaps a more subtle variation) that if the victim doesn’t say “no” then it is OK. That shows no understanding of what it means to consent. It is this reason that I don’t think he should be re-employed as a footballer.

I have to admit I was quite surprised to realise people who genuinely don’t understand what consent is but I have seen enough reports and studies for me to think there really is a group who don’t understand and aren’t just using it as an excuse. I can think of one case where a man, accused (and later convicted) of sexual assault used a similar argument (“she didn’t say ‘no'”). When asked what she did say he volunteered the words were “f*** off”…he may have been in the “just an excuse” group.

On the topic of the victim not pressing charges. There are some things considered “crimes against society” and so they are prosecuted (on behalf of) society. I generally think this is a good thing rather than justice coming down to a victim being willing and able to pursue matters.

Its a tricky one. He’s done
Its a tricky one. He’s done his time in prison, but does that mean that there should be absolutely no further consequences for the rest of his life? As others have said, if he was in a different profession, he would suffer career consequences on release.

On the other hand – if he has specific skills he can use to earn a living, why should he not be able to? It’s this question of being a role model. Whilst I agree you are probably not best advised to follow footballers as role models as an adult, lots of kids do follow their activities as they are in the public eye, and to that extent, they are role models.

I don’t agree with this ‘you’ve got to start in a lower division’ idea though. Either you can earn a living as a footballer, or you cant. In any other profession, you would get the best job you could in the field that you work in. Are we saying that he should have an earnings cap because he committed a crime? Its a short enough career already in professional sport, so that would have a disproportionate effect. It just seems like an additional punishment, even though he has been inside and theoretically completed that phase of consequences.

Perhaps the PFA should set out some rules about the way that you would be treated after committing offences : define ones that would preclude you from becoming a footballer again, should you be found guilty of them? There’s been people killed in car crashes due to dangerous / over the limit driving, GBH, etc… perhaps if there was a list so that everyone knew where they stood it would take some of the heat out of it. You might be able to put in some ‘earnings cap’ or compulsory contributions to a relevant charity in those rules as well – maybe for the remaining period of time of your sentence whilst you are out on licence?

Factor in the appeals, it just becomes a mess. If only he just hadn’t done it…

notfastenough wrote: What do

notfastenough wrote:

What do you do, put Jess Ennis’ name back on the stand?

Deliberately ignoring all of the (more important) issues, why on earth does a runner have a stand at a football ground named after them?

It’s even more ridiculous than the Arnold Schwarzenegger stadium in Graz.

Definitely not allowed back.
Definitely not allowed back. He is not being treated differently , any criminal throws away their career. And so far he has been tried, found guilty and refused leave to appeal. He is now awaiting a review, but in the meantime is a convicted rapist ,on license, and signed up to the sex offenders register for life. Kids look up to footballers, they are heroes, and given his supporters respond to anyone on twitter criticising him,with abuse and rape threats, its not a good mix.
Sheffield made a big mistake thinking this was not important enough to distance themselves from him.
Btw, at no time did the victim make a complaint , she was left alone in the hotel, when she woke up she did not know what had happened or where she was. Her belongings were missing and that is why she called the police. It was their subsequent investigation that established what had happened.

It’s a deeply unpleasant case
It’s a deeply unpleasant case because on the one hand I don’t want to belittle rape and on the other I don’t want the club to feel it has to to give in to mob justice.

I’m not going to comment on the guilt/lack of as I haven’t followed the case in detail. In terms of rehabilitation I’d think a compromise may be good.

I assume he was sentenced to x years and served n (where n is less than x).
In the absence of an acquittal, I think he should be allowed to seek work after x years has passed, rather than n.

Anyone who uses a professional footballer as a role model needs their head examined…