Why is the 15-minute city attracting so many conspiracy theories? Plus access for disabled cyclists in the latest episode of the road.cc Podcast

Just as one example as to how disconnected you are from reality, the cost of completing HS2 has been estimated as high as £170 billion; the UK's nuclear weapons budget is around £6.5 billion per annum, so scrapping our nuclear arsenal (something, incidentally, I would fully support) would not give us a magic wand to solve our transport woes even with reference to that one specific project.

Please provide, as I'm sure you can because you wouldn't just be spouting nonsense for the sake of it, an example of how cycling/active travel infrastructure in the UK has trapped people in their homes and stopped them visiting family. Just one example.

By the way, "mandatory medicine from people who are on flim telling us years ago that they want population reduction by vaccine"; you are of course referring to Mr Gates, I take it? He pointed out that it is proven that birthrates fall as mortality rates fall (quite obviously, as the need to have the largest possible family in the hope that a few will survive to adulthood is removed) and so it should be possible through vaccination programmes to reduce birthrates and ultimately stop the current cycle of population explosion. That's rather different to "reducing the population by vaccine".

Rendel Harris wrote:

...an example of how cycling/active travel infrastructure in the UK has trapped people in their homes and stopped them visiting family.

I can't help our new friend here *, but here's a video of a place in the UK where nearly 90% of children walk or cycle to school - presumably because their parents were trapped by the pavements and shared use paths and thus unable to drive them?

Here's a UK town with a largely pedestrianised city centre.  Clearly killed off the tourist trade there **!

Here's a place (not in the UK) blighted by the removal of motor cars and a massive parking lot from the city centre - now it's like a ghost town - look how miserable the few people look **.

And here is a place with over a thousand people with literally no roads - how bonkers is that?  How do they get deliveries, how do the emergency services get through?  They're ALL trapped ** ... except those who have a boat (they have canals) or can walk, wheel or cycle.

* No doubt some of their underlying concerns are correct - in that that things are changing at an increasing pace.  We as individuals or even groups (up to the size of a state!) can be powerless in the face of new technologies, the banks, massive old corporations that have been a *requirement* for some generations now (like the fuel and motoring businesses) and some new(ish) ones which look to have a stranglehold on the business of our information, communication and interactions.  The latter seem likely to become ever more "services" which we are then dependent on to accomplish what are basic human tasks...

** That's sarcasm, sorry.

hmsgenoa wrote:

You don't have to be a cyclist or 'woke' - in fact I think people who consider themselves as 'woke' need to wake up and smell the coffee sometimes - to see we are gradually having our freedoms impinged upon.

I completely agree - I believe you're referring to processes termed "domestication" and (later) "civilisation"?  Terrifyingly this has been underway since long before human history!

Although ... since humans are a chimpanzee species which tends to group into bands anyway and within those exhibit "coercive social control" ... perhaps the place to draw the line about our "individual freedoms and autonomy" dates back to pre-modern human times?

The above is probably a bit fringe or even wacky - perhaps we can all agree that the neolithic revolution was really where the rot started?

chrisonabike wrote:

perhaps we can all agree that the neolithic revolution was really where the rot started?

Open your eyes* - they've been manipulating and controlling us since the Great Oxidation!

[* if you've evolved any yet]

mdavidford wrote:

chrisonabike wrote:

perhaps we can all agree that the neolithic revolution was really where the rot started?

Open your eyes* - they've been manipulating and controlling us since the Great Oxidation!

[* if you've evolved any yet]

Free the gene!  I think our corporate "selfishness" really started with cells (see - even sounds the same!)  And as for eukaryotes, they're the gigafactories of life!

chrisonabike wrote:

perhaps we can all agree that the neolithic revolution was really where the rot started?

"This planet has, or had, a problem, which was this. Most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small, green pieces of paper, which is odd, because on the whole, it wasn't the small, green pieces of paper which were unhappy. And so the problem remained, and lots of the people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake coming down from the trees in the first place, and some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no-one should ever have left the oceans. And then one day, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl, sitting on her own in a small cafe in Rickmansworth suddenly realised what it was that had been going wrong all this time and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no-one would have to get nalied to anything. Sadly, however, before she could get to a phone to tell anyone, the Earth was unexpectedly demolished to make way for a new hyperspace bypass and so the idea was lost forever."

- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

That the Manchester arena bombing was faked is something we should give credence to.
Of course, and all those crisis actor ones too.

Hirsute wrote:

all those crisis actor ones too.

Do you mean the last decade or so of 'government'?

hmsgenoa wrote:

You don't have to be a cyclist or 'woke' - in fact I think people who consider themselves as 'woke' need to wake up and smell the coffee sometimes - to see we are gradually having our freedoms impinged upon. Unfortunately anyone who has woken up and is joining the dots is labelled as a 'conspiracy theorist'. We need to worry about the air that we breathe, the water that we drink, mandatory medicine from people who are on flim telling us years ago that they want population reduction by vaccine as well as providing traffic insfrastructure that works for pedestrains, cyclists and cars. I've been a cyclist since 1983, had many no fault incidents with motorists but am able to recognise infrastructure/policy that causes the demise of local businesses or keeps people trapped and unable to visit family  is never going to win us (cyclists) friends. If we (when I say we I mean 'elected' UK governing party) weren't spending BILLIONS of our money on long range weopons systems we could finish HS2 ( ie what was started-  before talking about more runways) and have an infrastructure that keeps pedestrians, cyclists and cars safely segregated (for example more underpasses or bridges where appropriate). By all means report on what affects cyclists, but don't label people who can see a bigger picture emerging as 'conspiracy theorists'. Check out what Jean Paul Marat had to say about those in power . The conspiracy theories are not wacky, see both sides of the coin not just one.

THE EMPIRE NEVER ENDED!

hawkinspeter wrote:

THE EMPIRE NEVER ENDED!

I know a good book about that!

chrisonabike wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

THE EMPIRE NEVER ENDED!

I know a good book about that!

Thanks for the reminder, I've been meaning to get hold of a copy.

hawkinspeter wrote:

THE EMPIRE NEVER ENDED!

You mean because Queen Victoria got herself cloned and then built a new fleet of warships somewhere in the Unknown Regions (Norfolk)?

brooksby wrote:

You mean because Queen Victoria got herself cloned and then built a new fleet of warships somewhere in the Unknown Regions (Norfolk)?

No, not that empire, the Roman Empire

https://discover.hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/War-Is-A-Racket

“Fish cannot carry guns.”
― Philip K. Dick, VALIS

hawkinspeter wrote:

“Fish cannot carry guns.”
― Philip K. Dick, VALIS

What about sharks with lasers, though?  And actually - there are those trigger-happy archerfish (not the triggerfish).  And quick-draw shooting shrimps (if you find it in water, it's a fish).

Sometimes, even if you don't find it in water, it's a fish.

There are a lot of undercover fish out (of the water) there...  Come to think of it, I may be one.

chrisonabike wrote:

There are a lot of undercover fish out (of the water) there...  Come to think of it, I may be one.

Only uno-fish-ally, though.

chrisonabike wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

“Fish cannot carry guns.”
― Philip K. Dick, VALIS

What about sharks with lasers, though?  And actually - there are those trigger-happy archerfish (not the triggerfish).  And quick-draw shooting shrimps (if you find it in water, it's a fish).

They might be able to operate guns, but they can't carry them. They have to be fitted with some kind of harness.

Or is it more that we must not allow them to carry guns?

I bet it's only a matter of time before one of those octopodes finds a firearm and figures it out (a glocktopus?)  They're already carrying around coconuts - presumably to fool other marine life that they're riding horses?

hmsgenoa wrote:

I think people who consider themselves as 'woke' need to wake up and smell the coffee sometimes 

...

The conspiracy theories are not wacky, see both sides of the coin not just one.

I could be described as 'woke' and I drink plenty of coffee, thanks. If you wish to use the word as a slur then you're just another reactionary c**t and not worth the time of day. Go back to your cave, the world has moved on - women can vote now, even! I'm sure you find that revelation truly scandalous.

And why do you think conspiracy theorists are scorned? Because they are mostly spouting utter rubbish with no hard evidence to back it up. I'm in favour of listening to different perspectives but without evidence AKA facts then it's just bullshit.

hmsgenoa wrote:

You don't have to be a cyclist or 'woke' - in fact I think people who consider themselves as 'woke' need to wake up and smell the coffee sometimes - to see we are gradually having our freedoms impinged upon.

Yup - there have been cons against "the people" forever - but over the last hundred years or so there is one which stands out particularly - our blind spot for mass motoring.  Literally getting people's "freedoms" reversed.  And then convincing the customers that instead of literally being in debt to The Man (see "finance" in recent years) they're buying "freedom".  (Here are some cheerful examples - from the 50s, from more recently).

Of course - "it's our choice."  But ... did we carefully check the terms and conditions?  Unfortunately nobody has time for that!  Perhaps we should hve - maybe when we finally realised that we were being sold products which were literally damaging our brains and those of our children...

hmsgenoa wrote:

We need to worry about the air that we breathe, the water that we drink,

See above for leaded petrol - ah - but we have "low emission" vehicles (brought to us by the same people) and now "zero emissions" vehicles (ditto).  That solves this all, right...? (Generally better - but still polluting locally, basically)

hmsgenoa wrote:

mandatory medicine from people who are on flim telling us years ago that they want population reduction by vaccine as well as providing traffic insfrastructure that works for pedestrains, cyclists and cars.

I'm probably not in the market for this one - too many dots being joined I think.

hmsgenoa wrote:

I am able to recognise infrastructure/policy that causes the demise of local businesses or keeps people trapped and unable to visit family

ME TOO RIGHT!  It's stroads and out-of-town shopping developments, isn't it?  And the growth of housing estates without proper urban centres (shops, other amenities) which are often poorly served by public transport - or indeed not at all.  Am I right?

hmsgenoa wrote:

spending BILLIONS of our money on long range weopons systems we could finish HS2 ( ie what was started-  before talking about more runways)

Like Rendel I'm up for "swords into plowshares".  Although that's a bit difficult - if you really embrace that it can cost your freedom, your (and your family's, and your country's) wellbeing and indeed your lives ... that is, without finding a way of addressing some of the other aggressive and expansionist folks and their people's fears...

... but I'm not quite sure about the link between HS2 (essentially "people from London get to a few places in the north about 20 minutes faster") and demise of businesses and people being trapped... or is it this is a "flying" alternative?  That does come down to being able to get there by train but also all governments seem very keen to keep subsidising flying - perhaps we should start there?

hmsgenoa wrote:

and have an infrastructure that keeps pedestrians, cyclists and cars safely segregated (for example more underpasses or bridges where appropriate).

We got there at last!  I like this bit!  Apparently the favoured language is "separated" now (sounds less like some kind of apartheid) but that's a detail.

I think what we need is a bit of Chris Boardman* of Active Travel England explaining some of these ideas in practical terms (talk here).  Not to "impose cycling" on people but actually looking at problems people have in their daily transport needs and suggesting some interventions which would give them more choice.  Including the important choice to "do nothing" - but then to understand the consequences you're accepting.

Because maintaining or even making more room for driving ... increases driving - which leads to e.g. more congestion, worse health for kids (and in fact everyone) because crashes, pollution and inactivity, actually costs us all tax money...

* Though in the past he has had a company selling bikes as far as I am aware he's not in favour of anyone being trapped or any freedoms removed.

wtjs wrote:

How is misinformation from a blatant malevolent nutter allowed to persist on this site?

Which one?

Agreed- there are so many to choose from. I must have forgotten to 'reply' to this newer nutter, but post is now corrected

The answers from some readers who have replied to the original comment are thoughtful and informative, so we're not deleting the thread right now. I'm not remotely concerned that right-thinking people are likely to be misinformed about 15-minute cities by reading through these comments at the moment. 

It was the intensely stupid and malevolent misinformation the utter failure of vaccines and inability to recognise this that I was complaining about, as was clear in my comment. 

Understood and I agree with you on this point, apologies if that wasn't clear. We have taken some action but left the thread itself up as an example of how to counter misinformation, if that makes sense.