All cyclists taking part in time trials in Britain will be forced to slow down and adhere to the speed limit while racing through 20mph zones, the national governing body for time trialling in England, Scotland, and Wales has announced.
In new guidance published on Tuesday evening, which described 20mph speed limits and time trials as generally “incompatible”, Cycling Time Trials (CTT) also stipulated that any course with a lengthy 20mph section should not be used if a viable alternative is available, due to concerns over safety for participants and other road users, along with the risk of causing “public outrage” which, CTT says, could put the future of time trialling in Britain in jeopardy.
However, CTT’s latest guidance – which seeks to clarify the body’s stance on the widespread implementation of 20mph speed limits throughout the UK – also suggests that time trial courses which feature 20mph zones can still go ahead if a variety of conditions are met.
These exceptions will apply to courses with very short 20mph sections where riders are unlikely to exceed the speed limit in any case (such as during hill climbs or approaching a roundabout), during road closures, and if the demise of a course due to a prolonged 20mph section would lead to “a serious loss to time trialling in that area”.
In that final case, time triallists will be under strict instructions to ride at no more than 20mph during those sections, a rule CTT describes as an “overriding principle” which aims to prevent riders from gaining an “unfair advantage” by ‘breaking’ the speed limit, thereby nullifying time trialling’s long-standing reputation as the ‘race of truth’.
“20 mph limits and time trials are incompatible”
This latest announcement from CTT comes three months after the governing body first mooted the potential loss, or at least necessary modification, of some time trial courses following the introduction of a default 20mph speed limit across Wales, which raised concerns from members in both Wales and England that the road safety measures could usher in the demise of Britain’s historic time trialling scene.
> Do cyclists have to stick to the speed limit?
In the UK, cyclists do not share the same legal obligation as motorists to stick to speed limits, and cannot be charged with an offence of excess speed. However, in a letter sent to its districts in November, CTT urged its members to “ignore any such suggestion” from “some websites [that] state speed limits do not apply to cyclists”.
In this week’s guidance, clarifying the body’s rules on the approval of courses and the “restrictions upon riders who take part in them”, CTT doubled down on its commitment to ensuring riders participating in its events adhere to speed limits and other rules of the road.
“All courses which will be used in 2024 must always have an up-to-date risk assessment,” the guidance for districts, organisers, and riders says. “If there is a 20mph limit now on any part of an approved course or the proposal for a course is a new one, the District must treat safety as it first priority and make an decision after weighing all the relevant issues.
“Generally, 20 mph limits and time trials are incompatible. Most riders travel between 20 and 30mph. Riding at that speed is capable of causing public outrage and danger to riders and other road users who will not be expecting vehicles to be approaching so fast.
“Such conduct could cause the government to review the existing permission for time trials to take place on public roads, expose riders and organisers and CTT officials to the possibility of civil and criminal proceedings, and invalidate the insurance CTT holds for participants in time trials.”
CTT also noted that its rules “have always required riders to ride safely and obey all traffic signs together with the Highway Code and that failure to do so is a disciplinary offence” – an offence, it says, which will now encompass riders racing at over 20mph in the new reduced zones.
“There will therefore be an overriding principle that all riders in time trials must adhere to posted speed limits as well as all other rules of the road,” it says.
“In any event, in order to achieve fair competition, where a course with a section which is subject to a 20mph limit is used, riders must not exceed that speed. Otherwise, the event will no longer be a ‘race of truth’ because a rider who exceeds the limit will gain an unfair advantage over one who does not.”
While clamping down on the individual speeds of its time trialists – a measure that has raised concerns over how it will be implemented – the governing body also asserted that “any course which incorporates a section with a 20mph limit should not be used if a suitable alternative is available”.
It continued: “This will require the District and organiser to consider whether changes can be made to a course to avoid the 20mph section. If not, the District should consider whether any other suitable course is available, taking into account the nature of the event and the area from which riders are expected to come.
“The history of the event and any scenic qualities will not play a role in this decision unless they are relevant to the safety of riders and other road users. A particular aspect of 20mph zones is that they will usually (and more often will in future) be accompanied by traffic calming measures. These can present serious hazards for cyclist and other road users and in themselves may mean that a course is not safe.”
However, CTT noted that if a district is satisfied that no suitable alternative is available, it may allow an event to go ahead on a course with a 20mph section if the following exceptions apply:
It is a Hill Climb, so long as both the organiser and the District are satisfied there is no reasonable expectation riders will exceed 20mph, whether up or down the hill.
The 20mph limit is on a section of road for which a Traffic Management Order (restricting access by motor vehicles) will be in force at the time of the event.
There are very short (up to 100 metre) sections of 20 mph limits where the geography makes it unlikely riders will exceed that speed in any event. Such sections will usually be at the start of an event or include a feature such as a corner or roundabout where riders will naturally slow anyway. At such a feature, two sections of up to 100 metres (one before and one after) may be permitted.
Meanwhile, longer 20mph stretches (in this case, over 100m) could possibly still be used as long as “active measures” are in place to ensure riders don’t stray above the speed limit.
These active measures include warnings on risk assessments, start sheets, and on “prominently displayed” notices at the start for club events, along with the use of additional marshals at speed restrictions signs and traffic calming measures “with, if possible, signs displaying the number 20”.
Longer 20mph sections will also be permitted if the district committee is convinced that “no reasonable alternative exists and the cancellation of the event would lead to a serious loss to time trialling in that area”, and that its distance will not lead to potential non-compliance by those taking part.
> Why the 20mph zone time trial ban could be the “tip of the iceberg” for British racing
Cycling Time Trials’ latest guidance will arguably do little to quell the concerns of members and club riders, who believe the restrictions surrounding 20mph speed limits could lead to the loss of a substantial portion of Britain’s TT courses and, with the domestic scene struggling in general in recent years, facilitate the demise of one of the country’s most venerable cycling pastimes.
“The majority of courses cannot be used,” Jonty Gordon, the chairman of Clwb Beicio Egni Eryri and a director at 1816 Cycles told us in November.
“I know of some clubs whose regular 10-mile courses will all be unusable. Given the difficulty in finding routes that don’t feature 20mph areas, there is a real risk that TTs will simply disappear in Wales.
“I do really think it is going to affect TTs as there are now so many 20mph routes, finding a safe and approachable one, not a 50mph road or dual carriageway, is going to be nigh-on impossible.”
Speaking to the road.cc Podcast, Jonty also explained that the new rules could have serious legal implications, potentially turn away young people and women from the sport over safety concerns, and that they may prove just the “tip of the iceberg” – especially when it comes to political and societal attitudes – when it comes to the future of bike racing, and the political and societal attitudes towards it, on open British roads.
91 thoughts on “All cyclists must adhere to 20mph speed limits during time trials in Britain – as governing body cites safety concerns and risk of causing “public outrage””
So, in order to adhere to a
So, in order to adhere to a 20mph limit, the rider will need an accurate speedo. SO is the CTT mandating speedos / GPS devices for races, and will these be checked at start? Going to cost the aero boys 1/100th Watt, they won;t be happy 🙂
Err . . . motorists have
Err . . . motorists have speedos & still speed.
Will STRAVA ban segments through 20mph zones?
Marshall at start of section,
Marshall at start of section, one at end, both note time rider passes through – if average speed is over 20mph, DQ.
Some clubs struggle for
Some clubs struggle for marshals and timekeepers as is – adding more like this is potentially impossible for a number of clubs.
Dogless wrote:
I’m guessing in this day and age virtually every rider has a phone in their pocket in case of emergencies or mechanicals, in which case just create a Strava segment for the 20 mph zones and make it compulsory to have Strava on while racing, easily checked.
So, in order to adhere to a
So, in order to adhere to a 20mph limit, the rider will need an accurate speedo
The police have agreed with themselves that there is no such thing as an accurate speedo on a bike and that GPS is just a fad and a child’s toy (rather like any bike) which is why it’s always legal as far as the police are concerned to cross single or double unbroken white lines while overtaking a cyclist whatever the road conditions.
https://upride.cc/incident/ku15ekc_royalmailbigvan_dwlcrossclosepass/
https://upride.cc/incident/m121bul_jaguarmmt_uwlcrossclosepass/
https://upride.cc/incident/a19lcw_mercedesmmt_closepassuwl/
https://upride.cc/incident/b5hol_tanker_closepassdwlcross/
https://upride.cc/incident/b6hol_harrisonoils_uwlcross/
Bigfoz wrote:
not only that, but the cyclist will also have to deliberately watch the ‘speedo’ – which is almost never positioned in peripheral FOV.
will the police be patrolling in order to detain and prosecute motor vehicle drivers overtaking time-triallists in these 20mph zones? as far as i’m aware they aren’t enforceable in scotland – so good luck with that.
That’s what I’ve been
That’s what I’ve been thinking all along @Bigfoz. I don’t spend all my time looking at my speedo, I prefer to keep a sharp eye open for obstructions, vehicles & pedestrians.
From DoT Vehicle speed
From DoT Vehicle speed compliance statistics for Great Britain: 2022 (Published 24 August 2023)
‘On 20mph roads, 84% of cars exceeded the speed limit during weekdays, and 86% during the weekend (Table SPE0115).’
So, CTT is arguably doing the right thing, whereas ~85% of car drivers are not 🙁
From experience I can confirm
From experience I can confirm that a guaranteed way to piss off most (84% by the looks) drivers is to drive below the posted speed limit, or cycle above it.
Any chance of a race only on
Any chance of a race only on 20 mph roads? I might dig the old clip-on aero bars out of the loft and have a chance of winning something at last, albeit in a tied first with all the other riders…
There would be very
There would be very interesting new tactics in such a race. Probably martial arts athletes would excel and not cyclists.
Rendel Harris wrote:
How quickly can you accelerate to 20mph – because that would become the effective tie-breaker.
For consistency, no more
For consistency, no more sprint finishes at the end of the London Marathon then.
If you can run at over 20mph
If you can run at over 20mph after running for over tweny-six miles, you’re either on drugs or got an ‘S’ on your jersey and wearing your pants on the outside!
Good thing 5km parkruns are
Good thing 5km parkruns are held in parks
(but good luck with 3min/mi pace)
its not for April 1st yet, or
its not for April 1st yet, or are they geting the jokes in early!
Unfortunately there is no
Unfortunately there is no realistic outcome where anyone is happy.
I for one don’t see how staring at my bike computer trying to keep to the speed limit, struggling to avoid collisions with road furniture and being overtaken by vehicles ignoring it, is safer.
Anyone who has previously set a competitive time will never again be able to try for a PB.
Blanket 20mph speed limits (and in particular the general attitude toward them from motorists) are incompatible with TTing, hill climbs notwithstanding.
I understand that they are trying to let racing continue but these exceptions are not a reasonable solution. But the CTT need to be seen as doing something. It’s a no-win situation.
Do they *actually* need to be
Do they *actually* need to be seen to be doing something or are they *frightened* of the PR effects of *not* being seen to do anything?
There is a real risk of them overthinking this….
Do nothing: Have huge uproar
Do nothing: Have huge uproar from a minority as riders will be going faster than cars despite there being no legal basis for the upset; competitors in this instance will be percieved as dangerous regardless of the reality of the situation. On the flip side, this situation poses an actual hazard to competitors as slow moving traffic becomes an obstacle for faster riders. All it would take is one incident for there to be serious calls from Government to ban the sport on UK roads outright.
Blanket ban on 20mph zones in courses means that as more zones appear, the already shrinking portfolio of courses means that soon there will be very few left. The scene will die.
They have tried to reach a compromise but unfortunately and solution waters down and takes away from the essence and spirit of the discipline. There is no overthinking, purely because both extremes put the future of UK Time Trialling in severe doubt; a huge oversight that was missed by those who drew up, consulted on and implemented the schemes, as CTT were not involved, nor were any concerns noted by the CTT at the time. Hence there is much scrambling to react to the problems that the CTT are now presented with.
20mph zones when applied properly are valuable assets for active travel – in heavy built-up areas, inner cities etc – I am all for them. Typically, these are places where there aren’t any TT courses anyway. It’s rural villages where the zones have been implemented under a one-size-fits-all approach; where Club TTs have been run for decades without incident, but road safety is still an issue – because there isn’t another cheap and easy solution.
Matthew Acton-Varian wrote:
From what I can gather, this is the essence of it.
CTT is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They absolutely must be seen to be doing the right thing, which is to follow the rules as it applies to vehicles despite the fact that speed limits may not apply to cyclists in the strictest sense.
I defy anyone to come up with an alternative position that doesn’t have the potential to cause massive or maybe even catastrophic problems for time trialling. The one thing I can see saving some TT courses is if individual requests are made for each course (or section of a course) that is restricted to 20mph and an exemption given. In these straightened times – for police resources as well as CTT volunteers – I can’t see that happening, even if it was possible.
One North Wales club uses an out-and-back 10 mile course that starts and finishes in Caernarfon. A short section at the beginning and end is within a 20 mph restriction and the faster riders may be finishing their TT at 300w on a slight (1-2%) descent – possibly doing 30 mph. There are other courses that go through villages with 20 mph limits. Some of them may be on the A5, a particularly wide road that is much quieter now that the A55 Expressway takes most of the through traffic but it’s not hard to anticipate problems, particularly as the local media has made hay by seemingly magnifying the scale of the outcry.
I think the answer is going
I think the answer is going to involve the abandonment of the standard 10/25/50/100 mile distances for most events and the acceptance of non standard distances such as the 7 mile Georgetown course on the West side of Glasgow (although even this is compromised by a lights controlled pedestrian crossing). We have been losing courses to traffic lights and dead turns and traffic calming etc. since before I started riding TTs in the mid 70s but there is a small group of cyclist keen to keep it going.
Secret_squirrel wrote:
Very much agree with this point. The Police have to agree to allow courses to be run. Many 20 and 30 mph areas exist on courses that have been run for years and they could have objected or simply refused the use of a courses many times, but haven’t. Also I’m sure plenty of Triathlons will be in areas with 20mph limits. Don’t think I’ve seen any suggestion of banning certain bike legs or insisting riders stay under a certain speed.
Waleskun wrote:
Have Triathlon Cymru or event organisers like Always Aim High provided any information about this? I’ve not seen anything.
The TT scene in Wales is far smaller, I can think of a handful of clubs across Mid- and North Wales that run TTs, all of them EOL club events and mostly short distances.
I think people are jumping to conclusions and at the same time unfairly bashing CTT because it’s easy to make accusations or jibes when you don’t have ‘skin in the game’. Perhaps some of the more vociferous commenters could offer their expertise to their local DC and tell them where they’ve been going wrong all these years. That way it should be a piece of cake* to sort it all out.
* carrot is my favourite, though I’ll happily accept whatever is on offer.
On balance I think the cause
On balance I think the cause of cyclists in general is improved by having 20mph speed limits (assuming they are respected). Given a choice of scrapping 20mph limits for the benefit of TTs, or extending them for the greater good of cyclists in general, I’d choose tbe latter. Their benefit to cyclists exceeds their costs [edit: … to TTs]. I think the edict is reasonable.
There is no cost to cyclists
There is no cost to cyclists except those we put on ourselves to placate daily mail readers
Car Delenda Est wrote:
THIS
Car Delenda Est wrote:
I meant (in the context) that the benefit to cyclists outweighed the cost to TTs. Sorry if that wasn’t clear from the context.
For general traffic, yes. But
For general traffic, yes. But it’s side-effect specifically is detrimental to the CTT and the UK Time Trialling scene which is the point I am trying to make.
Matthew Acton-Varian wrote:
That is exactly what I was weighing – the benefit to cyclists (in general) against the cost to TTs.
It’s almost like there’s a
It’s almost like there’s a reason that speed limits don’t legally apply to cycles. The impact energy of an average UK car with 1 occupant travelling at 20mph is 67.3kj, where an average UK adult plus a 9kg bike impacting at the same speed is 3.7kj. A car colliding with a pedestrian does not deform as much as the cyclist would in a collision with the same ped, so the force transferred is exponentially greater.
A timing window over the 20mph sections, allowing for space to slow down and return to speed, to subtract from the total would be a sufficient work around. It might allow for riders to really ease off over the ‘untimed’ section and try and recover, but BS like this is going to cause some exploitability no matter how you try and accommodate it.
If the CTT were truly focused on rider safety, they’d only run events on closed race circuits, but that’s not going to happen
Playing devil’s advocate for
Playing devil’s advocate for a minute, I suppose what CTT are doing as regards speed limits is only the same as UCI insisting on a helmet even when they are not legally mandated?
brooksby wrote:
Not really comparable. Racing is dangerous, crashes happen as a result of racing, head injuries can occur… whether bike helmets do much to mitigate that is another matter.
Time trialling isn’t dangerous in itself and speed limits do not apply to cyclists, although maybe they should for velomobiles.
I really wonder how the 20mph is going to be enforced or policed in a time trial.
How many time triallers have injured or hurt people?
ChrisB200SX wrote:
Why isn’t it comparable? I had meant that CTT are insisting on observance of a ‘speed limit’ law which doesn’t ordinarily apply to cyclists, and I had thought that was a bit like UCI adding a rule insisting on helmets even where helmets are not legally mandated. YMMV.
PS – Didn’t we have a troll on here back in the day who was very concerned about the perceived dangers of time trialling?
I don’t think it’s the same.
I don’t think it’s the same. Requiring PPE in a given situation is based on a risk assessment. The assessment would be that the risk should be as low as reasonably practical (ALARP). In this case, in the context of the activity going slower is not really practical.
IanMK wrote:
OK, I think I get it now. Apologies to ChrisB200SX for my being a bit dim 😉
brooksby wrote:
There is a definitely a parallel where they are bizarrely insisting that people do something that they are not legally required to do and the “solution” that is being mandated may not really make any difference.
CTT also mandate the wearing
CTT also mandate the wearing of helmets when competing. Front and rear lights are also mandated by CTT even though it is not law to use them from sunrise to sunset. No helmet or lights – you cannot compete.
cbrndc wrote:
Similarly nonsensicle.
No, this is getting
No, this is getting sidetracked I think. Time trialling with a helmet and light can sensibly improve safety (helmet debaters notwithstanding but bear with me) without destroying the whole idea on the basis of prejudice. Speed limits for time trials are wholly down to prejudice- even CTT say so.
“Generally, 20 mph limits and
“Generally, 20 mph limits and time trials are incompatible. Most riders travel between 20 and 30mph. Riding at that speed is capable of causing public outrage…”
I wish cars exceeding 20 mph limits were capable of causing public outrage.
Tom_77 wrote:
There is no speed it is possible to ride a bike that is not capable of causing public outrage,
Will cyclists get the same
Will cyclists get the same leaway as motorists 110% + 2 mph? In which case I can go flat out on the club TT and win it
It’s only a requirement if
It’s only a requirement if someone (the lesser spotted traffic cop or a speed camera) is looking though right?
This all reminds me of the
This all reminds me of the self inflicted wound when British Cycling advised people to avoid cycling during the Queen’s funeral, encouraging more driving instead.
If only they’d encouraged
If only they’d encouraged everyone to horse instead of riding our poor man’s nags. Surely Ma’am would have approved and I believe many of the relatives are keen horsists…
Even fast riders would no doubt appreciate the power increase (up to 1 hp!) while if only drivers had adopted carriages in turn we’d have had a much quieter more pleasant day. Barring the odd one or two dedicated to fast driving of course.
“CTT urged its members to
“CTT urged its members to “ignore any such suggestion” from “some websites [that] state speed limits do not apply to cyclists”.”
What, like this one? https://www.gov.wales/introducing-20mph-speed-limits-frequently-asked-questions#91814
This 20MPH stuff is a red
This 20MPH stuff is a red herring. The CTT is just running scared.
Look at the speeds of all these records (some out of date)
Are we really meant to believe none of them occured in a 30 limit?
https://cyclinguphill.com/time-trial-records/
WFH on Monday, train drivers
WFH on Monday, train drivers on strike, GWR, (they deserve a pay rise), and went for a bit of a ride, did my hour loop into the bottom of the Chilterns. Been a bit dry recent so decided to go the extra horsey bit, mud had set VERY lumpy, had to get off for little bits. But what I did notice was a lot of very new and sparkly, no dirt or muck let alone algae, 20 mph roundels, on every bit where there was a few houses.
Not enforceable, of course, but much more difficult to come up with an explanation of why your vehicle ended up in someone’s house…
Oxfordshire has gone for
Oxfordshire has gone for village 20mph zones in a big way.
Many urban areas in Europe
Many urban areas in Europe have 30kph (18mph) or even 20kph (12mph) speed limits.
How do THEY cope with time trials? Has anybody from British Cycling bothered to check?
Time trials are a british
Time trials are a british thing arising out of the history of the legality of the sport, I don’t believe they happen elsewhere to anything like the same extent.
Really? Not necessarily
Really? Not necessarily challenging as I have no knowledge on this, but lots of countries produce world class time triallists. How did they learn?
Time trials in grand tours.
Time trials in grand tours. world championships and olympics etc are usually fairly random distances and terrain and are quite rare, you can train for this by riding road races and a bit of work on your aero position, the CTT time trials are much more common with dozens of events every weekend during the summer which are overwhelmingly one of the standard 10/25/50/100 mile distances, often on main roads and people train specifically for these event distances. For a brief insight into the history see https://cyclinguphill.com/cycling-time-trials/
It’s such a bad idea to even
It’s such a bad idea to even consider racing in a 20mph zone. Crazy in fact. Whilst those riders in TT event will have to stick to the 20mph limit( even though they’ll all try to eek out an extra mile an hour or two), any other cyclist won’t have to stick to the 20 mph limit. This will attract an element of cyclists who just want to showboat. The watching public will just see cyclists. Before you know it the Parish Council, the village hall committee and chief choreographer of the old time formation dance ensemble will be on the blower to the old bill and your TT event will be in the local papers for all the wrong reasons, and then after a short while, will be consigned to history.
Move TT events away from the
Move TT events away from the open roads, and onto somewhere else; hire a venue, etc
One of the historic
One of the historic attractions of TTs is their accessibility. Part of which was always the low cost to race. Hiring venues will up entry fees making TTs less accessible.
Open roads aren’t 20mph. That
Open roads aren’t 20mph. That’s built up areas not suitable for TT
I understand the safety
I understand the safety concerns. I don’t understand the advice. It has real 1970’s shop steward vibes. Over complex, wishy washy and fails to meet the statrd objectives.
You can’t race in 20mph zones unless (long list of exceptions) you really want to. In which case, carry on regardless. But if you do, you must obey the law including speed limits which don’t legally apply to cyclists.
The motion is carried. Now senior steward brother Johnson, would like to address the matter of the unacceptable and Emperalist restrictions against workers smoking in the dynamite storage room.
One of our local 10TT courses
One of our local 10TT courses has a 30mph section through a village but is downhill in both directions so pretty easy to exceed 30mph. In fact, two fastest times from Hamish Bond and our own Ben Healy are in the 19’s so they will have been going much faster than that, but it’s never been brought up before.
What’s more of an issue is the 50% of that couse has double white lines and drivers WILL overtake no matter what speed the rider is doing. It also gives another issue when a driver doesn’t overtake a rider and their minute rider is catching them. This means the minute rider feels they have to overtake both a car and rider over a solid white line….
This brings me to the main reason that 20mph zones should not be used as nothing will wind car drivers up more than riders overtaking them in a 20!
mikewood wrote:
All my life I’ve dreamed of a road that is downhill in both directions, where is this promised land please?
I knew somebody would bite!
I knew somebody would bite!
Anywhere with a valley….
Okay, I’ve tried to picture
Okay, I’ve tried to picture it, I’m still flummoxed as to how the same section of road can be downhill in both directions…
Not in the same place but on
Not in the same place but on the same stretch of road through a village. Clue is there’s water at the bottom!
mikewood wrote:
So you’re going down a valley to a village then uphill away from the village, then turning round and going back in the same direction? That’s downhill then uphill then downhill then uphill, not downhill in both directions! Ye cannae change the laws of physics, captain!
(PS just messing, I get what you mean, I just liked the idea of a section that can be downhill in both directions)
I can’t help think of Penrose
I can’t help think of Penrose Stairs.
Yes, it’s an out and back
Yes, it’s an out and back course so you go hrough the same village twice. I have been known to sit outside the pub watching a TT as you see everyone twice and then one of the local bashes comes through as well
Ebikeville
Ebikeville
I think with this debate in
I think with this debate in England it’s a case of “first, catch your 20 mph road”.
“will cyclists have to obey it?” / “cyclists won’t have to obey it” is part of the anti 20 mph driver bullshit canon. It’s fine for them to overtake you, but in a few extreme cases being overtaken seems to bring down the red mist, that is never far away.
Sustaining >20 mph on a bike is pretty uncommon.
“Sustaining >20 mph on a bike
“Sustaining >20 mph on a bike is pretty uncommon”
It certainly is to the average rider, however to the average rider entered into a TT an average of less than 20mph would be a very poor performance. I tend to TT around 22-23 mph and I am most definetly in the lower third of the results
40 to 50 years ago, my
40 to 50 years ago, my average speed for a “10” or”25″ would have been around about 25mph, and I was certainly not anywhere near the fastest rider around. With modern bikes , time triallists are recording times considerably faster than the times of decades ago.
David9694 wrote:
In a time trial I think it’s pretty common, I averaged 34kmh on my only 10mile time trial, I was not in the top half of the leaderboard.
I also have a one hour local ride when I averaged over 20mph, but that was after lockdown and the result of less junk food and more zwift training for 3 months
As ever the Germans have a
As ever the Germans have a word for this, ‘weltfremd’.
“the new rules could have
“the new rules could have serious legal implications”
While it’s quite correct to say that speed limits only apply to motor vehicles, not pedal cycles, there is the offence of “riding furiously”. Quite possibly racing cyclists riding well in excess of 20mph limits could be charged with this. Also if riders are charged, it’s possible that event organisers could also be charged with encouraging riders to ride furiously. Sadly, I have to express some sympathy with the CTT’s decision that time trialling and 20mph limits are fundamentally incompatible.
You have omitted a key part
You have omitted a key part of the offence, which is “causing injury” by riding furiously. No one is going to be stopped for the offence simply by virtue of how fast they are going.
Ah, the old red herring of
Ah, the old red herring of the barrack-room lawyer. Irrelevant. Cycling dangerously is an offence regardless of this old reckless cycling trope. “A cyclist can commit the offence of dangerous cycling as opposed to dangerous driving. The test to determine dangerous cycling is the same as to determine dangerous driving.
A person is to be regarded as cycling dangerously if the way he rides falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful cyclist, and it would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist that cycling in that way would be dangerous. Dangerous refers to danger of injury to any person, or serious damage to property.
When determining what would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist regard shall be given not only to the circumstances which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused.”
The CTT Legal Advisor stated
The CTT Legal Advisor stated that it was impossible to know what legislation was used for any given 20mph limit in place. “It would need a team of legal advisors beyond the financial means of the CTT” (I paraphrase), and therefore it cannot be said with certainty whether that limit does apply to cyclists.
I suggest that any road likely to be used for a time trial will have its speed limits governed by the Road Traffic Act, and not any other means. One example of other means is Richmond Park, which I believe is a local byelaw. Anyone in the area would probably know that, and it should be pretty easy to check.
This ruling is a ridiculously broad brush approach to a non-existent issue.
Personally I know of no
Personally I know of no courses with 20mph limits, that’s just silly if there are. Most of the roads I have ridden on are 60mph. In fact all the fast courses are on dual carriageway, ie 70mph.
Do they have any Sporting
Do they have any Sporting Courses near you ? Quite a few here go through villages some of which have 20mph limits.
brianlescargot wrote:
I can think of 3 local ones in Gwynedd/Anglesey just off the top of my head. There will be plenty more in other parts of Wales, especially in the south where population – and number of competitors – is much higher.
Just because you don’t know of any (do they have 20 mph limits where you are?) doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
It is amazing to see so much bollocks spouted on this topic by people who know f**k all about it.
When I did my IAM motorcycle
When I did my IAM motorcycle course and you chose to do something legal, but looks wrong to others, such as filtering, straightlining a corner or riding on the wrong side of the road to get an improved view of the road ahead, they tell you to think ‘SLAP’ before you do it. It stands for is it Safe, Legal, Advantageous, and Perception; and it’s that last bit that’s important in the CTT 20mph zones discussion that’s important here.
IF, (and that’s big if), but if others are adhering to their rules, yet you have a different set of rules that includes things they can’t do, this seems to them that you’re allowed to do something that they’re not, hence they get p*ssed off. Riding faster than 20mph on 20mph zone falls into that category and I can understand their point of view.
this seems to them that you
this seems to them that you’re allowed to do something that they’re not, hence they get p*ssed off
I find myself unconcerned by this.
I find myself concerned,
I find myself concerned, because these nutters will then take the law into their own hands. That said, I emphatically do not suggest that the solution is for cyclists to comply, rather it is for the authorities to ensure compliance by those to whom the law applies and not otherwise. I know, dream on.
rather it is for the
rather it is for the authorities to ensure compliance by those to whom the law applies
Since they, in Lancashire at least, don’t make any effort to impress the law upon motorists when that law is pretty simple ‘because everybody breaks it’, it seems unlikely they will bother in other cases
https://upride.cc/incident/k7ddy_audia4_redlightpass/
WU59 UMH, for those lucky enough to have avoided my previous efforts, has had no MOT/ VED for 6 1/2 years and had a failed MOT over 3 months ago, and was reported to the not at all idle, useless, ineffectual and bent police over 6 months ago, is here shown in the usual position outside the pub 100 yards from Garstang Police Station
How should a cyclist monitor
How should a cyclist monitor his or her speed when riding a bike which is (legally) not sold with and is not fitted with any speed measuring device?
20 mph is ridiculously slow;
20 mph is ridiculously slow; where I live , 25 mph speed limits have just been introduced in shopping strips and the traffic cops are having a field day nabbing ‘speedsters’, which previously were 40 mph zones.
Sorry (not), but for your
Sorry (not), but for your kind of brain speed clearly even 10mph would be too fast.
grOg wrote:
It may be for car-brains like you but when drivers comply it feels a lot safer for pedestrians and cyclists. And the statistics from where it has been implemented back this up.
And the physics.
And the physics.
There’s more than 50% more energy at 25 rather than 20.
Doesn’t feel any slower than
Doesn’t feel any slower than 25. Only reason it feels that slow is when you drop from the NSL to 20. Dropping from 30 to 20 barely registers as well.
How is it a time trial if you
How is it a time trial if you have to slow down.
Nobodys breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit.