“If cyclists jump red lights, it’s because of these things”: Ashley Neal says he “gets” why cyclists jump red lights as driving instructor ignored by sensors for two minutes on bike; Should Tour de France pros wear ice hockey gear? + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
Knife-wielding man shot and arrested at Tour de France stage finish after suspect stabbed police officer
Some shocking news emerging last night from stage four of the Tour in Rouen:
> Knife-wielding man shot and arrested at Tour de France stage finish after suspect stabbed police officer
“This unfortunately is an impact of live sport and can often happen”: Discovery says Giro d’Italia Women highlights mix-up down to Tour de France coverage “overrunning past its scheduled slot”
As you may have read yesterday, my Monday evening was completely ruined – alright, that may be a slight exaggeration, let’s say inconvenienced – by Discovery+’s decision to kick off its Giro d’Italia Women highlights package by spoiling the result of that day’s Tour de France stage… and then abruptly ending the programme with 10km to go.
Well, the broadcaster got back to me to confirm that the mix-up was a result of the Tour overrunning – classic – and that kind of thing happens all the time with live television, even on catch-up, and even when you’re paying £31 a month for it.
“This is an unfortunate incident and is a result of the men’s live Tour de France coverage overrunning past its scheduled slot, continuing into the time when the women’s Giro highlights were originally scheduled to start,” Discovery told me.
“Unfortunately this can affect the ‘in and out’ points for a programme delivered for VOD, which is why the conclusion of the men’s race was included in the Giro programme. This unfortunately is an impact of live sport and can often happen.
“We have a review process each morning to adjust anything incorrect, and I understand this has now been corrected. We choose to schedule the women’s Giro highlights directly following the live men’s Tour de France coverage to inherit the audience with the aim of maximising viewership.”
Which, to be fair, is the way it should be. As long as we can actually watch the finish, that is…
Oh no, there’s another one coming…
Can you handle the Race of Truth? Tour de France set for GC-shaping time trial in Caen
Tadej Pogačar may have landed the first big jab of this year’s Tour on the Saint-Hilaire yesterday (though Jonas Vingegaard also proved he’s got a pretty strong chin), reshuffling the GC race in the process, but this afternoon in Caen is where we’ll really see the battle for the yellow jersey take shape.
Today’s 33km time trial – an out and back course on flat, fast roads, perfectly suited for the peloton’s big rouleurs – will offer a telling indicator as to whether Pogačar will be challenged for yellow by Vingegaard, who bested the world champion at the Dauphiné TT remember, over the next two and a half weeks.
It could also offer a path for both Remco Evenepoel, the pre-TT favourite but down in ninth, 58 seconds behind Pogačar, and fellow time trial aficionado Primož Roglič back into the GC race after a bumpy opening few days.
> Will this time trial bike help Pogacar win another Tour de France?
Of course, the Tour won’t be decided today – but the race’s narrative, with over a week still to go before we enter the high mountains, could well be irrevocably shaped by the Race of Truth.
To keep you up to speed ahead of your afternoon of time trial viewing, here’s a list of BST start times for the big favourites and some selected (mostly British and Irish) riders:
Jake Stewart: 1.19pm
Adam Yates: 1.43pm
Connor Swift: 1.48pm
Sam Watson: 1.52pm
Simon Yates: 2.13pm
Fred Wright: 2.22pm
Eddie Dunbar: 2.31pm
Geraint Thomas: 2.39pm
Wout van Aert: 2.58pm
Ben Healy: 3.01pm
Joe Blackmore: 3.32pm
Primož Roglič: 3.36pm
Remco Evenepoel: 3.44pm
Oscar Onley: 3.48pm
Jonas Vingegaard: 3.56pm
Tadej Pogačar: 3.58pm
Mathieu van der Poel: 4pm
Evans Cycles slashes annual losses from £22.8m to £3.3m as company starts recovery from bike industry’s “well publicised supply chain issues”
Evans Cycles has reduced its annual losses to £3.3 million in the year ending 28 April 2024, down from £22.8 million the previous year, as the UK’s largest high street cycling retailer seeks to recover from the bike industry’s prolonged supply chain crisis that sent financial results tumbling across the sector in 2022 and 2023.
Read more: > Evans Cycles slashes annual losses from £22.8m to £3.3m as company starts recovery from bike industry’s “well publicised supply chain issues”
‘Don’t worry Remco, we’ve covered everything: aerodynamics, nutrition, altitude training, and clothing. And yes, yes, for the last time, your gold bike is ready’
Adam Blythe approves…
“You wouldn’t be distracted when you’re driving down the street, so why are we doing it in bike races?” Mike Woods calls for ice hockey-style gear and fewer “distractions” in races, after hitting out at Tour de France for putting safety onus on riders
Should pro cyclists be forced to wear ice hockey-style protective gear during races? And should we start treating riders looking at their bike computers like phone-using drivers?
No, I haven’t lost the plot, or submitted a list of random road.cc topics into Google’s AI generator.
Those are just two of the safety suggestions put forward by Tour de France stage winner Michael Woods, in response to the chaotic, crash-marred opening stages at this year’s race, which saw Jasper Philipsen’s green jersey defence go up in smoke, reigniting the sport’s ongoing debate about the dangers of racing in the peloton.
In a lengthy blog post, the 38-year-old Canadian wrote: “I have managed to stay safe thus far, but having sat at the back for the entire race, I have witnessed a lot of crashes.
“I know this is a topic I seem to be covering a lot, but when the green jersey crashes out of the race, and you see what I have seen the past few days, it is hard to push it out of your mind.”
Woods then criticised ASO’s pre-Tour briefing in Lille, which he says featured highlights from last year’s race, including – you guessed it – crashes.
“No matter what ASO says, they love crashes. Despite their claimed ‘attempts’ to make the sport safer, one gets a sense, when watching any highlight reel they create, that blood, broken bikes, and some poor bastard walking into an ambulance are what they love to sell,” the Israel-Premier Tech rider wrote.
He then said that “one of the heads of ASO”, while speaking about recent attempts to make the sport safer, appeared to lay most of the blame on the riders themselves, telling them that they “must also take greater measures to reduce risks, and if they don’t, they may have to be forced to wear protective equipment in the future”.
Woods continued: “He said this as if wearing protective equipment would be punitive. To me, this showed a significant misunderstanding of what riders want and how sports, and life in general, work.
“It’s crazy because we don’t already wear safety equipment. If you dropped anyone outside the pro peloton into this Tour field during any of the first three stages, they would think, ‘Why the hell am I not wearing hockey equipment right now?’
“Just look at the elbows, knees, hips, and hands of every rider in this peloton – it’s clear that it’s foolish that the governing body of this sport has not already forced us to wear protective gear.”
(Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
Expanding on his criticism of ASO’s briefing in an interview with ITV4 yesterday, the 38-year-old said: “The safety presentation at the start of the race didn’t have a strong understanding of what needs to be done and was off the mark, just by laying blame on the riders.
“Athletes are always going to push up against the limits drawn by the organisers. So it’s on the organisers to create rules that are going to make the environment safer.”
(Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
In his blog, Woods also devised his own four-point plan to make cycling safer, including scrapping the relegation system (which he says increases stress in the bunch, reducing the size of the peloton (noting that smaller bunch featured in the Olympics road race made it the safest event of last season), lowering speeds by restricting bike and equipment design, and “reducing distraction”.
“If anybody has driven through the heart of a European city during peak traffic hours, with Waze on, a podcast playing at full blast, and an accompanying passenger asking questions, they will know how dangerous distraction can be,” he wrote.
“Riders effectively do this every day at higher speeds with no seat belts or airbags. Bike computers now provide a range of information, and one only needs to watch a race to see how often we are looking down at this information while hurtling along some European road.
“Directors are constantly speaking to us in our ears through the radio, stressing the importance of being in the right place at the right time.
“If you removed these distractions, I believe you would place far more emphasis on experience and create a much safer environment.”
“Garmins, radios are all creating a lot of distraction,” he continued on ITV. “You wouldn’t have that driving down the street, so why are we doing it in bike races?”
And today’s winner of the pre-race TT bike track stand competition is… Silvan Dillier!
TT tekkers:
When all this Tour de France nonsense is over, Dillier clearly has a promising career as a cycling courier ahead of him.
Strava, giving away the personal details of world leaders since 2009
> Security fears as Swedish PM’s home address leaked by bodyguards sharing cycling and running routes on Strava
When cyclists’ social media posts come true
Back in December, after undergoing surgery for iliac artery endofibrosis, Sarah Gigante posted a photo from her hospital bed of her holding a card from a friend that read: “They ain’t ready for Sarah 3.0 come July”.
They weren’t wrong…
“I kept looking back because it seemed too good to be true!” Sarah Gigante shocks the favourites with spectacular attacking summit finish victory at Giro d’Italia Women, as Marlen Reusser heads back into pink
Now that’s how you grab the biggest win of your career.
On the first big summit finish of this year’s Giro d’Italia, Sarah Gigante blew away some of the biggest names in the sport to secure an impressive solo victory, 25 seconds clear of pre-race favourites Elisa Longo Borghini and new pink jersey Marlen Reusser.
The 24-year-old Australian climber’s start to the 2025 season was delayed until the end of May, after her recovery from iliac artery endofibrosis surgery over the winter was prolonged by a subsequent dislocated shoulder.
But Gigante, a double Tour Down Under winner and a seventh-place finisher at last year’s Tour de France, has clearly picked up where she left off, finishing third on her first race back at the Tour of Norway and eight overall at last month’s Tour de Suisse.
And today at the Giro, AG Insurance-Soudal rider underlined her credentials as one of the best climbers in the world, attacking an elite group containing Reusser, defending champion Longo Borghini, and Antonia Niedermaier with 1.7km to go of the 11.4km-long Pianezze climb.
As Longo Borghini and Reusser dithered behind, Gigante continued to extend her advantage towards the line to secure her first ever WorldTour victory outside Australia, catapulting herself into third place overall – and at this rate, pink jersey contention.
“I’m really in shock. I knew I was riding quite strongly and I knew we had an amazing team. But to come away with the stage win is beyond my dreams,” Gigante said at the finish.
“I’m coming back from a big surgery and six months off, and then I dislocated my shoulder just as I was coming back, so it’s been a long time. This has been by far my biggest win, especially in Europe. And I’m just so grateful for the team for believing in me.
“My DS Dani [Christmas] was amazing on the radio, she was telling me to stay calm. Because even from the bottom, Marlen attacked and we had a gap. I could have spent a lot of energy there but Dani said ‘wait, wait’.”
Former British pro Dani Christmas’ call for patience came after the race blew apart at the bottom of the climb, only to come together, creating a select group of around 20 riders, a few kilometres later.
At that point, SD Worx’s Anna van der Breggen – as she has become accustomed to doing during her comeback year to the peloton – got to the front to set a strong pace.
The four-time Giro winner remained there, towing everyone along, until the final 3km, when Reusser’s seated acceleration – a more vigorous rendition of the tune Van der Breggen had been playing for most of the mountain. That was enough to drop the Dutch star, whose watts-focused but wind-catching tactics ultimately saw her lose almost two minutes, and any hopes of a fifth pink jersey, by the line.
Not that Reusser’s own steady pace worked any better. Instead, the pre-Giro favourite appeared simply to tee up Gigante’s late move perfectly – the Swiss had no answer, ceding 25 seconds to Gigante by the finish, as well as losing a handful of bonus seconds to the fast-finishing Longo Borghini.
Of course, Reusser’s calculated ride was still enough to put her back in pink, after Anna Henderson was dropped early on, 16 seconds ahead of Longo Borghini and 34 clear of a suddenly very dangerous Gigante. The Giro, it seems, is now wide open.
“I tried to stay patient, which isn’t how I normally ride, but when I saw Marlen go, and Elisa and Antonia started to drop, I knew I was on a good day – so I thought maybe I’d try! I really thought they were going to catch me,” a delighted and stunned Gigante said after her win.
“I know you’re not supposed to look back but I kept look back because it seemed too good to be true!”
Believe me Sarah, it’s true – and the rest of the peloton now know it.
Boom! Evenepoel on fire, as Belgian storms into lead with ferocious second half of his time trial – but Vingegaard struggling
When it comes to time trialling, Remco Evenepoel just doesn’t miss, does he? The Belgian, after a seemingly steady start, has ripped apart today’s time trial, beating leader Edoardo Affini’s longstanding time by a whopping 33 seconds, covering the 33km course in 36.42.
What a ride by Remco Evenepoel!
The World and Olympic champion smashes the time of Edoardo Affini to all but win stage 5 🥇🌈🇧🇪#TDF2025 pic.twitter.com/9Q3oh2Pfpn
— ITV Cycling (@itvcycling) July 9, 2025
His big rivals for GC are still to finish – but things aren’t looking good for Jonas Vingegaard, who is shipping considerable time to both Evenepoel and Pogačar. The world champion, meanwhile, is easily limiting his losses to the flying Belgian and looks set to move into yellow.
“I was on airplane mode, da”: Gravel racer Jesse Yates sets fastest known time on 351km King Alfred’s Way – after giving dad and former pro Sean a scare by ‘going missing’… because he put his phone on flight mode
Jesse Yates, the gravel racing son of former Tour de France yellow jersey Sean Yates, has reportedly set the fastest known time for King Alfred’s Way, the 350km loop around historic Wessex and starting and finishing in Winchester… but only after giving his dad a scare.
Yesterday, according to his Strava, Yates – a former Team Wiggins rider who later turned his attentions to gravel, winning the Badlands Ultra Race Pairs alongside Sam Andrews in 2023 – covered the 353km in 14 hours, 22 minutes, and 56 seconds, beating Neil Phillips’ previous FKT for King Alfred’s Way, set two years ago, by almost an hour.
But last night, during the FKT-breaking ride, Jesse’s dad Sean, a British pro during the 1980s and 1990s who was Bradley Wiggins’ DS during his 2012 Tour de France win, put out a call for help on Instagram, after he couldn’t get hold of the 28-year-old, sparking a brief search mission.
Thankfully, the panic was short lived, as Jesse soon took to the comments himself to inform Sean: “I was on airplane mode, da.”
“Jesse is safe and well. Thank you all those who shared and offered to help,” Sean posted last night, sparking supportive comments from former pros such as Juan Antonio Flecha and Steven De Jongh, while Jesse also added: “Sorry bout that”.
“Firstly, big thanks to the tremendous outpouring of support after my father’s social media post, basically my iPhone battery is a bit cooked so I just banged on flight mode to save charge,” Jesse clarified in an Instagram post this afternoon.
“I’ll give the DS a heads up next time. Thanks for sharing and those who went out on the trail, missed calls and well wishes via text. I’m good, maybe if you saw the whites of my eyes, an almost possessed look you’d still ask the question.”
Referencing his successful King Alfred’s Way FKT attempt, Yates added: “Hit a sub 15, pretty sweet, it’s merely an interlude. My wellbeing is well and I am being. I booked my flights last week.”
Is it time for the return of the combination jersey?
What did I say about things looking ominous at the Tour?
Duuuunn, duuuunnn…. duuunn, duuuunn….
To be honest, I reckon Tadej could rock that classic 80s combination jersey look:
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Come on ASO, you know what to do. It’s a lot cooler than his polka-dot pyjamas, anyway…
Tadej Pogačar banishes the time trial ghosts of the Dauphiné to take yellow jersey, as Remco Evenepoel roars to stunning victory and Jonas Vingegaard loses over a minute to biggest rivals in disaster for Visma-Lease a Bike
Dauphiné time trial? What Dauphiné time trial?
If anyone doubted Tadej Pogačar’s chances of winning a fourth Tour de France title after his shaky display (by his ridiculously high standards) against the clock at last month’s pre-Tour test, those doubts have been completely shredded this afternoon.
While his Dauphiné TT defeat to Jonas Vingegaard sparked a bout of introspection, some tech spying trips, and a rampage in the mountains, the world champion can head into the high ground next week safe in the knowledge that the Dane is, if not out of contention by any means, a few wheel lengths behind already when it comes to the race for the yellow jersey.
In the 37 minutes or so it took the big favourites to complete today’s windy out and back 33km course in Caen, Pogačar put a full minute and five seconds into Vingegaard, a gaping chasm when you consider that Dauphiné result and how finely poised the Tour’s GC battle appeared heading into the race.
The Slovenian’s consummate display against the clock was enough for second on the day – behind a rampant Remco Evenepoel – and the yellow jersey, which he took off the shoulders of the battling Mathieu van der Poel, who was always up against it, finishing in 18th and dropping to sixth on GC.
On the other hand, Vingegaard’s faltering performance, the signs of which appeared evident almost from the start, has seen him fall off the GC podium, thanks to a superb ride by Arkéa-B&B Hotels’ in-form Kévin Vauquelin, who will ride out of his hometown of Bayeux tomorrow in third place overall at the Tour.
The biggest mover of the day, however, was the stage winner Evenepoel, who put in another inch-perfect display of power and precision to beat Pogačar by 16 seconds, leapfrogging into second overall, 42 seconds down on the three-time Tour winner, placing him well in the GC race after a turbulent, imperfect start to the Tour.
Despite noting that today’s result represents a “big step” towards his goal of securing a second-straight podium spot at the Tour, Evenepoel pointed out after the stage that today’s TT, for all its success in shaping up the GC, is just the beginning of the yellow jersey race.
“Tadej did a very strong TT as well, 17 seconds is pretty close,” he said at the finish. “It’s about half a second per kilometre, he made a step forward compared to the Dauphiné.
“That’s why he’s the guy to beat in this Tour de France. I tried to take as much time as possible to step up in the GC. It’s the same situation as last year after the TT. It’s a big step forwards to the podium, but there’s still a long way to go.
“Today was the first step for me to get a good GC result, but this is not where the Tour ends. I know what’s coming up next week and the week after, there’s still a long way to go. The two guys from our team to take stage wins now have, so it’s all relaxed now, and focused on the podium in Paris.”
As Evenepoel astutely observed, the Tour is far from over. But it’s looking ominous. Beyond the podium spots currently occupied by Pogačar, Evenepoel, and Vauquelin, everyone else, starting with Vingegaard, is over 1.13 down already.
The Dane’s Visma-Lease a Bike teammate Matteo Jorgenson, seemingly primed to form part of a two-pronged attacking approach in the mountains, is 1.22 down in fifth after a disappointing 11th place today. Primož Roglič, whose Tour has been stuttering from the start, is now 2.30 down, a second ahead of Red Bull-Bora colleague Florian Lipowitz.
Mattias Sjkelmose and Oscar Onley, in 10th and 11th overall, are the last riders within three minutes of the world champion. Yes, that is the Jaws theme you’re hearing in the distance.
Of course, there is context to Vingegaard’s hiccup today, particularly his willingness to follow Pogačar – and even attack himself – on the short, steep hills that have peppered this opening week so far, potentially dampening his legs for today’s more important effort.
And there are still the mountains – extremely tough and extremely backloaded – to come, starting from next Thursday. So plenty of time to recover, regroup, and potentially ambush UAE on the days in-between.
And, as Vingegaard has shown in the past, he’s more than capable of countering Pogačar’s relentless jabs on the easier days with one haymaker knockout in the mountains. Or at least that’s what Visma-Lease a Bike will be reminding him in the team hotel tonight.
The Tour’s not over – it never is at this stage. But Tadej Pogačar reminded us all this afternoon that he’s the one rider with the power to end it.
“If cyclists do sometimes have to jump red lights, it’s because of these things”: Ashley Neal says he “gets” why cyclists ride through red lights as YouTube driving instructor stopped for over two minutes while cycling after sensors “ignore” him
He’s back!
Yes, that’s right – while the rest of us are distracted by all the racing action at the Tour and Giro this week, Ashley Neal has come from nowhere to restake his claim to the road.cc live blog throne – by talking about cyclists and red lights.
The driving instructor, who uploads videos to his YouTube following of 170,000-odd subscribers tackling topics concerning cycling and cyclist safety, from both behind the wheel and on his bike, has often made headlines for his outspoken views on how we share the roads.
In 2022, Neal, the son of four-time European Cup-winning Liverpool and England full back Phil Neal, was heavily criticised for a video in which he beeped his horn at two cyclists as a “signal” while overtaking.
And in 2023 he engaged in an online war of words with fellow road safety campaigner and live blog stalwart Cycling Mikey, who urged the driving instructor to “leave me alone” after Neal uploaded a video criticising his behaviour on the roads, while last year he branded a new CYCLOPS junction in St Helens an “absolutely awful waste of time and money”.
He’s also talked about cyclists and red lights – the Daily Mail’s favourite bike-themed topic – before, when he came in for criticism two years ago, after responding to an e-bike rider sailing through a red light by noting: “But according to cyclists, cyclists don’t jump red lights”.
And in his latest video, uploaded on Tuesday, Neal – this time on his bike – has revisited the subject of cyclists and red lights.
But now, the Liverpool-based driving instructor admits he “gets” why cyclists sometimes feel like they have to ride through red lights – after a set of traffic light sensors failed to detect his presence, leaving him waiting for over two minutes.
“Have I been picked up by the sensors? Really important point, this. So if people try to understand why cyclists do sometimes have to jump red lights, it’s because of these things,” Neal says in the video.
“What do I do? Do I just wait here until a vehicle comes from the opposite way or behind me? Or do I just walk through and remount over there? Some people would just ride through, and I get it. Let’s just wait and see how long it takes. It’s obviously not picked me up.”
Eventually, a motorist approaching the lights from the other side of the junction triggers the sensors, allowing Neal to finally clip back in and carry on.
“Car from the opposite direction will have triggered the sensors – so do I have to wait for that before my lights are potentially going to change? Obviously, yes. Did you know that?” he said, before concluding in the video’s caption: “This is proof that the sensors in some traffic lights ignore cyclists.”
> Should cyclists be allowed to ride through red lights? Campaigners split on safety benefits
In the comments, many of Neal’s viewers – who shared tales of their own time wasted waiting at red lights – noted that ‘proceeding with caution’ is the best solution to faulty traffic light sensors.
“Lights where the sensors don’t detect all vehicles are broken. ‘Proceed with caution’ is the Highway Code instruction for broken lights,” wrote one viewer.
And… away!
However, Martin argued: “Big difference between jumping a red light and waiting at a red light for a reasonable period of time, seeing they aren’t being triggered by any other traffic then treating them as defective and authorising yourself past them at extreme caution.”
“The advantage of being a cyclist is that a quick swing of the leg and you become a pedestrian. Obviously it would be better if the sensors could detect bicycles but a useful hack,” said Matt – who was swiftly reminded that not all cyclists can simply “become a pedestrian”.
“This is where old style wheel magnets for speedometers can really help,” added John. “And remember: some cyclists can’t walk through.”
And, finally, Jonathan summed it up nicely: “Siri, show me what car-centric infrastructure looks like.”
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Latest Comments
Jetmans Dad "Food delivery riders in particular are riding overpowered 'eBikes' that are basically mopeds … powered only via the throttle without pedalling at significantly more than 15mph. Problem is they look like normal bikes/ebikes and not like mopeds so that is what people describe them as." Indeed, mistaken identification of e-motorcycles as bicycles is a significant problem because different regulations and training apply, so different enforcement. Even worse are the illegaly modified e-motorcycles that are not operated as such, without training, insurance and compliance generally. Zero hour employment contracts and employers taking no practical responsibility make it worse yet. Then there's the health impacts on customers that fall on taxpayers through the NHS.
I might be cynical about Police re-organisations but how many new senior officer posts will be created in this re-organisation.
I have to put it back into mode eight so rarely that I will have to open up the manual. Normally when I stick it on the bars when I had to send my r4 back to Hope. Or if it seemed to go a bit weird. Can't remember the last time.
I have nothing but praise for my helmet mounted Exposure Axis, running eight years now. Battery only does two and a bit commutes now, so I'm going to either upgrade to the Diablo or see if they will upgrade the battery. If they'd released their STVZo road/4k lumens when your giving it some going downhill off road light I would have bought it first day. Mode 8 for me, low low, good mid and top high, decided after a couple of weeks of use and I've never changed. I use the button or the tap function (Tap 2 for me) to cycle through the power levels. Exceptional helmet light. The button is it's weak point, but very livable, I am glad of the tap function. It can sometimes take a few presses to get the flashing bit with its press and hold, but not for too long because that's off.
Hard to see who replies on any thread. I only visit the site a couple of times a week as it is not usable.
People who want to travel safely in a 20 mph area, so that no motor vehicle tries to overtake them, need to be capable of 20 mph so get no assistance at all from a legal e-bike that provides 15.5 mph. So the e-bike regulations are broken because they encourage unsafe overtaking by impatient drivers (5 mph). In 30 mph roads, the 10 mph difference would still allow safe overtaking to be completed in short distances. So the low speed 15.5 is less safe in practice not safer.
I have been doing some cross-checking between my records and the police dataset How do you do that? The spreadsheet has been designed to ensure that you can't. There's no unique code for each incident, so why haven't they included that? There are many incidents dated from the same location on the same day by the same despised reporter category (cyclist) for the same offender category (such as 'car'). The great majority of intended (as usual in these misleading 'databases', it's not the real outcome) outcomes is the entirely useless 'warning letter'. Is there anybody out there who believes that the average police officer could rouse either the wit or the willingness to determine whether the offender has received a warning letter previously?! Some people will be receiving numerous such letters to throw in the bin, which encourages them to repeat the offence. As for the claimed 'positive outcome'!- only the most deluded could believe that
I pretty much have stopped bothering. I also find when I come to the site it loads the previous days page and I have to refresh to see today’s front page.
I regularly submit reports to A&S Police, and keep detailed records of what I have submitted, and the responses. I have been doing some cross-checking between my records and the police dataset. I'm afraid correlation is patchy at best. So, I am not confident in the dataset's accuracy. Further, where I can be fairly certain of a correlation, it's been largely warning letters issued for very clear video evidence of hand-held mobile phone use whilst driving. No wonder I see so many doing so. They have nothing much to fear. :o( Should I keep bothering?
That was a reply to Hirsute by the way, which I naïvely assumed would appear on the thread underneath his comment given that I clicked the reply button on his comment. The Admins really need to sort this, and various other problems, out before people stop bothering.
59 thoughts on ““If cyclists jump red lights, it’s because of these things”: Ashley Neal says he “gets” why cyclists jump red lights as driving instructor ignored by sensors for two minutes on bike; Should Tour de France pros wear ice hockey gear? + more on the live blog”
I am neither a great fan nor
I am neither a great fan nor a great hater of Ashley Neal, I think sometimes he gets it bang on and sometimes he is way off the mark, but isn’t it time he stopped being referred to as “the son of four-time European Cup-winning Liverpool and England full back Phil Neal”? Is this some kind of in joke intended to belittle him? If so it’s not really fair because he doesn’t owe his current fame/notoriety to any sort of nepotism so it seems a bit unnecessary.
I hate gratuitous name
I hate gratuitous name-dropping. As I said to Tom Cruise, just the other day.
I have finally watched The
I have finally watched The Good Place, which references gratuitous name dropping just a little…
I think it is supposed to
I think it is supposed to irritate him.
His brief appearance on here showed he was completely unwilling to listen to experienced cyclists who have been cycling for years and 10000s of miles.
Hirsute wrote:
I remember he did not make himself look good then, on the other hand when he made a video commenting on my video of some shocking driving by a driving instructor he gave a very fair, accurate and balanced account of it. Either way it’s a bit childish to keep needling him because of who his dad is – only justified if someone has clearly attained their position as a result of nepotism, in my opinion.
On the other hand, as he does
On the other hand, as he does more cycling himself, he seems to be understanding it better. Perhaps we need to show, not tell – like cycling advocates taking their elected officials for a ride.
quiff wrote:
Absolutely – but there often seems to be a “believability gap”. “Ah, but…”
That’s both a fairly reasoned one eg. “we see that you *can* cycle – but most people won’t because even with quite a bit of change it will be an ‘enthusiast’ endeavour. And we just can’t see a way to get more than a fraction of driven journeys cycled or not driven, so we still have to provide for drivers so can’t spare the space”.
There is also (even when people can see it for themselves) a “won’t work *here*” issue:
– sure NL is nice but we’re not Dutch / we’ll never get all that infra / we have hills.
– Copenhagen is nice too but we’re not Danish – and we have bad weather. Plus it looks a bit pricey – we’re in another round of budget cuts…
– Paris? We’re not French! Also it rains here in the summer sometimes.
– Cambridge? It’s tiny, and it only works because all the students aren’t allowed cars. It’s not a real place.
– London? Oh, if only we had all the money TfL gets… plus they’ve got the Tube.
On how it *might* work – local envy! Chris Boardman’s example of Manchester boroughs asking for better infra because neighbouring boroughs were getting it!
Of course that doesn’t always work either. See Kensington and Chelsea. Or – at the other end of the wealth divide – places where they see infra as being “talked down to” and limiting people’s aspirations to have motoring just like the rich places.
That’s not the timeline
That’s not the timeline though. He didn’t do any cycling and came on here telling people how it works when they had years and 10000s miles under their belt.
Don’t forget his main argument was ‘you shouldn’t feel like that’. How ridiculous to deny people’s experiences and reactions.
He tried to engage with stakeholders but ignored what they said believing himself to know better when the expertise was with the posters here.
Motonormative cognitive
Motonormative cognitive dissonance? eg. he – like most of us – “just knows” how it is. So people reporting that it isn’t must either be mistaken or propagandists.
That was my point – his
That was my point – his initial engagements were motornormative and patronising. But as he has started to ride himself more, he seems to be understanding different perspectives.
I’ll have to take your word
I’ll have to take your word for it, as I don’t watch or read anything he says since his demise on here.
The media seems to think that
The media seems to think that a message or information becomes more prominent or recognisable if it uses a famous sports person or celebrity as a communication conduit. Hence the BBC used to refer to “Wayne Rooney’s Plymouth Argyle”.
It is based on the assumption that the public have limited knowledge on most things and need a recognisable name or face as a reference point.
I admit that I struggled to understand the weather forecast the other day, when it mentioned rain. However, when I was shown a picture of Olivia Rodrigo carrying an umbrella, I got it immediately.
Mr Blackbird wrote:
I thought that was just acknowledging the pain of the long-suffering fans.
I also thought they’d
I also thought they’d promised to stop doing it, but turns out I misremembered the details. From here:
I think the main reason why
I think the main reason why cyclists decide to RLJ is due to the stopping/starting wasting your energy. There’s far too many traffic lights that are primarily designed around motor vehicles and often it feels unnecessary to just be sitting at a red light when you can see that it’s perfectly safe to go through (at cyclist speeds anyhow). Also, pedestrian lights are often accompanied by an empty crossing as the pedestrian “beg” button takes a while to turn the lights red, by which time the pedestrian has already crossed. Again, the pedestrian crossings are designed to prioritise motor vehicle traffic and in an ideal world, most of them would be replaced with zebra-type crossings.
hawkinspeter wrote:
They are light-controlled instead of zebras because many motorists cannot be trusted at zebra crossings
brooksby wrote:
Also, they don’t want pedestrians just crossing whenever they want to. If drivers have to waste time stuck in traffic, then it’s only right that pedestrians are made to wait to cross the road.
brooksby wrote:
FTFY
The main reason I would ride
The main reason I would ride through a red light is when it improves safety for myself and others. I won’t do it purely to save energy or time.
A good example near me is an old pedestrian crossing with defective sensors that always makes pedestrians wait 40 seconds before the lights change, by which time most pedestrians will have given up waiting and crossed. So this light usually turns red when there are no pedestrians anywhere near the crossing. Just after this crossing I need to make a right turn. So in these circumstances, I always ride through this light as I can make a safe right turn free from following traffic.
I have learnt that motorists seem far happier to wait 30 seconds at a red light than wait 30 seconds for a safe place to overtake a cyclist.
The problem I can see is that
The problem I can see is that if it is a set of traffic lights with which you are not familiar, it is sometimes difficult to tell whether the lights haven’t detected you and are defective or if they’re just very weirdly timed.
brooksby wrote:
I wait until all the ATS lights have been used and it’s restarting the sequence. If I still haven’t been “seen” then I’ll proceed with caution.
I once reported the same set of lights for eight years for not detecting bikes, sometime several times a week. That set of lights, a right turn lane, went through at least three resuraces and two inductive loop changes. In the end it was a local election and me mentioning it to a prospective councillor that got it fixed. The timing was changed to run with the straight on traffic lane.
Traffic lights are for cars:
Traffic lights are for cars:
http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2014/02/every-traffic-light-in-assen.html
Interesting comparison of NL and UK attitudes to traffic management.
There is a set of lights on one of my occasional routes (New Road/ Gill Lane, Yeadon.) that I’m often tempted to cross with care on red. I’ve waited ages for cars to trigger the lights in the past. Last time I was pleased to see a girl pressing the pedestrian crossing button. She got a green man, and I set off across, knowing that traffic on the main road had a red light. Cue ‘grey van man’, flying through the red and missing the girl, who had already started to cross, by inches.
This problem with traffic
This problem with traffic lights not detecting cyclists is rife in Lanarkshire. I’ve been back a forth with the council a number of times but they are extremely slow to respond and even slower to actually investigate and fix that it isn’t really worth the hassle to report any longer. They actually installed two new sets of lights recently neither were configured to detect cyclists, it clear this is not part of their install process and as such it is just luck if any lights in the region manage to pick you up. Up until a few years ago I was firmly against ever jumping a red light, that is until I started regularly going out for a morning workout at 5am, ironically to avoid cars which would helpfully trigger the lights. I normally stick to main roads due to surfacing and priority meaning most lights are green at that time so I can get around with few stops and a decent workout. However I now know all the junctions where the lights are likely to be red and won’t be triggered by the bike, in those cases I proceeded with caution as there might not be a car for another 10-15 minutes. I actually asked the police about it recently having explained the situation and the officer said most would use common sense if they saw it but obviously you could end up in trouble. Weirdly some lights work sometimes but not others, haven’t worked out why, don’t think it is related to time of day, perhaps clothing or lights (I always ride with lights on so maybe combination of lights and lack of daylight).
Whether you’re sensed depends
Whether you’re sensed depends on the technology that the traffic light uses.
If its induction loops (black
If its induction loops (black lines on the in a square/rectangle/ diamond) quite often you have to be very specific and cross them all. One day you might be doing that and another its easy not too.
They have one of those
They have one of those diamonds to lift the barrier to get out of my office car park. You have to cross at least two of the borders/lines, but only if you are riding a steel frame. If you’re on an aluminium frame, you could stand there and dance the hornpipe and the barrier won’t lift…
I believe the ali rims can
I believe the ali rims can set them off. My ti good bike will sometimes set them off, but the steel bikes have a better hit rate. Cycle specific one’s mind, motor vehicle ones and I’d be waiting for a car to help.
I understand Ali does create a disturbance in the magnetic field. They use rotating magnets to sort Ali cans.
I read “advice” a bit back that said to ride near the lines that go with the road and not change position while waiting.
As it’s a known problem it might be nice to have a we’ve detected you indicator. It might make the waiting a little less frustrating.
All my bikes are steel. I
All my bikes are steel. I find it works well to lay the bike down for a second across a leg of the loop if there are no cars around to trigger it.
“This is proof that the
“This is proof that the sensors in some traffic lights ignore cyclists.”
So now, alongside cars and other motor vehicles, traffic lights are becoming sentient too?
By saying that they ignore cyclists, he is implying that the traffic lights KNOW that they are there and CHOOSING to ignore them…
mitsky wrote:
— mitskyWell, more sentient than most drivers.
The traffic lights rely on
The traffic lights rely on detecting vehicles using inductive loop, video, infra red technology etc. Inductive loops rely on large masses of metal so carbon fibre bikes in particular are going to be vulnerable to being “ignored” (not picked up) by certain sensors.
Indeed but the sensitivity of
Indeed but the sensitivity of loops and infra red can be increased, some councils manage to do fine and even test that cyclists are setting them of but some councils like Pottyboro where I live have very car dominated signals that hardly ever detect a bike. Even when lights are on a push button (Puffin) they are completely car dominated again and wait for the road to completely clear of traffic before turning green. Folk lose patience understandably and dash through traffic which creates more conflicts 🙁
John wrote:
I feel like I am missing something really obvious, but I can not figure out how wheel magnets would help traffic lights “sense” a cyclist.
Do you take them off and throw them at the sensors in a fit of frustrated rage?
Quoting the viewer who wrote
Quoting the viewer who wrote “‘Proceed with caution’ is the Highway Code instruction for broken lights” is a bit misleading. Under section 199 for toucan, puffin and equestrian crossings it does indeed say “If the signal-controlled crossing is not working, proceed with extreme caution” but only for those three cases and not for traffic lights in general.
ReluctantPotHoler wrote:
Which is why we would refer to Rule* 176 in this instance, which says much the same thing for traffic lights.
* For the sake of referential pedantry, the numbered parts of the Highway Code are ‘rules’, not sections; sections appear in primary legislation (e.g. The Road Traffic Act**), and regulations appear in secondary legislation (e.g. TSRGD**).
** not their formal citations
I can’t find references in the legislation so, as I understand it (IANAL), the Highway Code has taken it upon itself (and the Secretary of State who placed it before Parliament) to allow for a defence. The offence as defined is still committed, but it is a defence to show that there was a technical reason that obliged the defendant for practical purposes to break the law. That defence weighs significantly lighter if the action of going through then precipitates a collision for which the defendant should have taken additional care to avoid.
Thank you. I stand corrected.
Thank you. I stand corrected.
Should pro cyclists be forced
Should pro cyclists be forced to wear ice hockey-style protective gear during races?
Has Michael Woods ever seen ice hockey? They deliberately crash into each other, because they have the protective gear. This seems to be a universal principle i.e. the more protective gear people wear, the more recklessly they behave, known as risk compensation. Don’t start me on helmets, air bags, seat belts etc.
If he wants more crashes, more injuries and deaths, by all means, fit up the riders like cyborgs and watch the cash roll in as viewers tune in to see the latest pile up.
eburtthebike wrote:
I’m now thinking of Ben-Hur style racing with spikes sticking out of the thru-axles
hawkinspeter wrote:
Sexist. Anyway, it was Boudicca wasn’t it?
It can also be a problem for
It can also be a problem for cycle-specific lights, too. At the roundabout at Rosery Gate in Battersea, London, there is a traffic light for cyclists on the cycle track going Southbound towards Clapham that has an infrared sensor that doesn’t work. Many times late at night I’ve been sat waiting for more than one complete cycle of the lights before cycling through as, unless a pedestrian presses the button at the parallel crossing a few metres away, they will not change.
There’s also a similar rubbish ones on C7 by Elephant and Castle, and at the end of Birdcage Walk cycle tracks. It seems the sensitivity of the sensors is deliberately reduced so they don’t trigger on false positives e.g. pedestrians or cyclists in an adjacent lane, to the detriment of actually detecting anyone at all.
TfL/councils don’t seem to bother fixing them when I’ve reported them, or if they do, they seem to quickly revert to being useless so as not to make precious drivers wait longer than they have to due to those false positives. I’m not dismounting after waiting 2+ mins and more than one light cycle because of deliberate decisons to make the sensors crap, so I’m “jumping” the red
Similar problem in Kensington
Similar problem in Kensington and Chelsea where Bramham Gardens crosses over to Earls Court Square over the Earls Court Road, there are lovely dedicated lights for cyclists and an infrared sensor that doesn’t work at all. I was most amused to be present recently when my wife took two of her young (10/11) pupils to task for cycling past us as we waited at the red light even though the pedestrian crossing lights going in our direction were green; they very politely and eloquently explained that if they didn’t jump the lights they wouldn’t actually be able to get to school at all. She gracefully accepted their explanation, ignoring the giggling idiot in the background muttering, “Go on lads, you tell ‘er!”
Some of the lights in the new
Some of the lights in the new, segregated cycle path on London Road, Glasgow have induction loops, especially for bikes.
However [unless they’ve been fixed in the last few months] … these make absolutely no difference to the speed or light order.
You still have to sit and wait. Then wait some more. And then, because its fun, you’ll get to watch the lights cycle around your red for the third time.
There’s not even a beg button on them.
Occasionally, they are joined with a toucan crossing… or so you think.
What it actually is, is a standard pelican crossing and the cycle path is on a totally different phase.
Fantastic amount of thought has gone in to it.
So much so, that using Edinburgh Road is around 10mins quicker as there’s no dedicated cycle lights.
London Road lights are so bad
London Road lights are so bad they become utterly pointless. Far quicker and easier, and perfectly legal, to just cycle in the road (or ideally in the lane and joining the road just before the lights then back into the lane after them).
Here in the US, some states
Here in the US, some states including mine have passed laws specifically allowing cyclists and motorcyclists to treat lights that don’t detect them as stop signs.
3.5. In municipalities with less than 2,000,000
inhabitants, after stopping as required by paragraph 1 or 2
of this subsection, the driver of a motorcycle or bicycle,
facing a steady red signal which fails to change to a green
signal within a reasonable period of time because of a
signal malfunction or because the signal has failed to
detect the arrival of the motorcycle or bicycle due to the
vehicle’s size or weight, shall have the right to proceed,
after yielding the right of way to oncoming traffic facing
a green signal, subject to the rules applicable after
making a stop at a stop sign as required by Section 11-1204
of this Code.
The “less than 2,000,000” thing just means “not Chicago.”
Somewhere the “reasonable period” has been defined as 120 seconds. I don’t feel an obligation to wait that long at a light I use every day, though. It’s not like it will magically be fixed.
andystow wrote:
When the segregated cycle route around Highbury Corner was first opened, there were some very long waits for the cycle phase. I timed them, and IME it took a lot less than 120 seconds before people got fed up of waiting and took their chances – 2 mins feels like a lot.
Birdcage Walk (Bucks Palace
Birdcage Walk (Bucks Palace end) can have an inordinate wait. Not sure if that’s down to sensors or if it’s just because there are (I think) at least three different phases to the lights, with minimal traffic. I am in the minority that stops and waits while everyone else barrels through the pedestrian crossing!
There were 4 of these sets of
There were 4 of these sets of signs on a road I used at lunchtime. Cyclists dismount followed by a shared path sign. I used the road in the end.
I’m unclear what they intended cyclists to do.
Confusing. Is it a shared
Confusing. Is it a shared-use path or do they want cyclists to just ‘get off and walk that thing’?
I’m guessing somebody has
I’m guessing somebody has taken a rather blinkered risk assessment view of the walled steps emerging onto the shared path with tactile paving.
Rather than improving visibility by putting in railings in place of the wall, they’ve decided that cyclists cannot cope with avoiding the occasional pedestrian so they must be advised (without authority) to dismount.
It is even possible that the TRO authorising the shared use of the path specifically disjoins that section.
I was thinking the dismount
I was thinking the dismount was the original to spit you out to the road and the shared bit came later with some new build.
I guess the later bits of dismount then are a ‘risk assessment’, but all points on a shared path are conflict areas, thus removing the shared path altogether.
It’s perfectly simple. You
It’s perfectly simple. You join the road, immediately dismount, walk past the steps using the main carriageway, lift your bike up the kerb, mount up and carry on. Obvious, really.
The next one up at least
The next one up at least makes some sort of sense. I’d guess the dismount & shared use signs are new, and the separated cycle / pedestrian paint markings are older
Yeras ago I stopped at a
Yeras ago I stopped at a traffic light just outside London, waiting for a long while for it to change as a queue of cars build up behind me, then realised I was on the weight sensor for the light and it was never going to change with me there. Had to roll partly through the light so a car could get to the sensor to trigger the lights to change.
“Some shocking news emerging
“Some shocking news emerging last night from stage four of the Tour in Rouen”, where do you live, mate? This happens multiple times, every day across Western Europe. Nothing to worry though as it goes from bad to worse.
I have taken issue with my
I have taken issue with my local county council a number of times re traffic lights not sensing my presence on a bike. Responses have varied from “it’s because you ride a carbon bike” to “we’ll make adjustments to the system” (which never seem to make any difference).
And it’s alright for the Highway Code saying ‘proceed with caution’ but I once found myself at a red light controlling a single lane road over a (very) hump back bridge – I waited a good number of minutes for a car to approach me from behind to trigger the lights and I felt unable to ‘proceed with caution’ as I did not have a clear view ahead the other side of the afore-mentioned hump back bridge.
riding from a standing stop
riding from a standing stop is when the greatest amount of stress that will be placed on a bike and it’s components. we’ve all experenced a chain skip; we have cranks that suddenly fail, pedals, stems that snap etc. From a standing stop such failure can cause the rider to suddenly fall, or swerve to regain balance. It is safest this occurs while everyone else is stopped at an intersection, or where there is no oncoming traffic to be seen – with this in mind I reserve the right to protect myself from harm should this happen and do so without hesitation or apology
I really hope this is a weak
I really hope this is a weak attempt at satire, because if not that has got to be the stupidest excuse for ignoring red lights I’ve ever seen. Good luck explaining to a police officer or court hearing that you didn’t stop because you were worried that your cranks were going to fail or your stem would snap if you had to stop and start again. It’s complete rubbish even in its own terms, incidentally, because the greatest stress on the chain and cranks is climbing steep hills, not pulling away from a standing start.
Laz wrote:
Also, taking it purely on its own terms (which I do not accept), if you’re that worried about standing starts, why stop in the first place?
quiff wrote:
If you’re that worried about it, why start in the first place? You’d just stay home, surely?