“The man who never misses has officially missed”: Adrian Chiles claims expensive cargo bikes are a “new kind of class politics”; Foul-mouthed rant at cyclist not using cycle lane… but public sticks up for rider + more on the live blog

81 thoughts on ““The man who never misses has officially missed”: Adrian Chiles claims expensive cargo bikes are a “new kind of class politics”; Foul-mouthed rant at cyclist not using cycle lane… but public sticks up for rider + more on the live blog”

1. Adrian Chiles, for further

   Adrian Chiles, for further context, is married to the editor of the Guardian.

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   • Indeed he is. That completely

     Indeed he is. That completely explains why his confused meanderings get a regular slot in the Graun because otherwise it is quite puzzling.

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   • I’ve always thought he also

     I’ve always thought he also looks an awful lot like “Pig Cop” from the early Duke Nukem games. 

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2. Is it just me that feels we

   Is it just me that feels we sometimes take anything that isn’t glowingly positive about bikes as an attack on them…

   I would love an electric cargo bike but £3k+ is far too expensive. Most people don’t have the choice between car and cargo bike, they need both. We certainly do. You might be able to replace your car on 60% of journeys but you will still need it for the other 40% and you will still be paying everything but fuel to keep that car for that 40%. 

   I think its entirely fair to say £3k+ for a limited use vehicle that plenty of people won’t get masses of use out of is a luxury item most can’t afford. 

   Like most things, some people can afford it, others can’t and plenty simply won’t see the value in it at the price offered. Its not a “right or wrong” answer. 

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   • Have you considered joining a
     Have you considered joining a car club for the remaining 40%?

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     • I would but I don’t know how

       I would but I don’t know how keen they would be with me using it to take crap to the tip, sticking dirty bikes in it or driving to Europe in it. 

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     • I looked at this, but in my
       I looked at this, but in my case concluded a car club would be significantly more expensive than keeping my car. But then I run a 15 year old Golf.

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   • I suspect that it is common
     I suspect that it is common to express surprise and even ridicule at the way other people spend their money in ways that we do not understand. £4k on a bicycle of any kind, a pair of trainers, jewellery, a pokemon card, football tickets, overpriced fizzy wine in a lap dancing bar etc seems crazy if you are not into those things.

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   • But surely on your 60/40

     But surely on your 60/40 split it’s the car which is more akin to the (very) expensive limited-use vehicle?

     Given the availability of Uber etc., taxis, public transport, hire cars and (as below) car clubs, many people in urban areas would be able to re-organise their lives in such a way that they could do without a car and save themselves all that expense of car ownership. The trade-off may or may-not be in convenience.

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     • The reason we all own cars is

       The reason we all own cars is because they are fantastically convenient. Public transport is crap in this country. Uber isn’t available in loads of areas and you need to know when you can leave and when you want to come home for taxis etc or be happy to wait for hours at times. I travel to Europe a few times a year by car. I drive to family who live all over the place. I go to the tip, I take my mountain bike in the car regularly, I go to pick up items from facebook marketplace. 

       I have a car and I can do all these things at the drop of a hat without any planning, without worrying about damaging the car or getting it dirty, without worrying about when I come home etc. Its fantastically convenient and I paid about £5k for the car 5 years ago. It costs me nothing in VED, MOT is £50 and insurance for me and my partner is about £400. There has been almost zero maintenance cost as I change the oil and filters myself. 

       I, like many, love the idea of ditching the car but my lifestyle and the way the transport system is built in this country make a car the best tool for a huge number of journeys. 

       Some people could ditch the car but it feels a little like a “london centric” view when people think that even a sizeable chunk of the population could abandon their cars.

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       • mctrials23 wrote:

         The reason we all own cars is because they are fantastically convenient. Public transport is crap in this country. Uber isn’t available in loads of areas and you need to know when you can leave and when you want to come home for taxis etc or be happy to wait for hours at times. I travel to Europe a few times a year by car. I drive to family who live all over the place. I go to the tip, I take my mountain bike in the car regularly, I go to pick up items from facebook marketplace. 

         I have a car and I can do all these things at the drop of a hat without any planning, without worrying about damaging the car or getting it dirty, without worrying about when I come home etc. Its fantastically convenient and I paid about £5k for the car 5 years ago. It costs me nothing in VED, MOT is £50 and insurance for me and my partner is about £400. There has been almost zero maintenance cost as I change the oil and filters myself. 

         I, like many, love the idea of ditching the car but my lifestyle and the way the transport system is built in this country make a car the best tool for a huge number of journeys. 

         Some people could ditch the car but it feels a little like a “london centric” view when people think that even a sizeable chunk of the population could abandon their cars.

         — mctrials23

         I think it’s more to do with being an aspiration to get as many people as possible to abandon their cars due to better/cheaper alternatives. As you say, public transport sucks in most of the UK, so that will need to be improved if we want people to choose it over a personal car – one easy way to do that is to hugely subsidise public transport, maybe even provide it completely free to people. Once we get more people onto public transport, it should massively reduce congestion and enable quicker and easier trips for people who need/want to be travelling in personal vehicles.

         Ultimately, personal cars waste too much space on the roads which means that they’re not practical for moving large numbers of people around once the population gets over a certain density. It’s a problem of geometry and building more roads ends up with needing yet more roads to be built as the number of car journeys increase. At some point, we need to evaluate the benefit of spending public money on building roads so that people can sit in metal boxes in queues of traffic – the only people that benefits is the motor/oil companies.

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       • Some good points here.  TL/DR

         Some good points here.  TL/DR – we should avoid getting stuck in a binary of “cars everywhere / no cars at all” as that’s unhelpful (and never going to happen that way).  “What is the current situation” / “do we need change? If so, what would we like to have?” and “how could we start that change?” are the questions.

         The reason we all own cars is because they are fantastically convenient.

         — mctrials23

         Basically – but I’d go a little further:
          – Cars are a good Swiss-army knife for transport.  They cover most common use-cases and do so pretty well – at a large (and normally hidden) cost (use of vast amount of space, direct casualties on roads, health impacts, supression of independent mobility for some, cost to taxpayer…).
         The deeper view is that most adults only consider what exists.  So once many people have cars our entire view of “what we can do” (or even “what we need to do“) is filtered through the potential and characteristics of cars.  To the person with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.
          – The organisation of our entire transport system, built environment, location of amenities and housing, many jobs etc. are (after 3 generations or so) predicated on mass motoring.  This is a driveogenic environment.  For most choices we make everything says “use a motor vehicle”.
          – Cars don’t just mark just richer / poorer (or “class”) social status – though they certainly are used to convey that.  They’re also considered a general marker of adulthood and being a competent / independent / “productive” member of society.  Don’t own a car?  You’ll be explaining why not to many people you interact with.

         [ list of things done with car ]

         — mctrials23

         This is the “driveogenic” part.  Once you have a car lots of things become possible or just more convenient.   Within a few trips this becomes your life and “I need a car”.  You could actually achieve many if not all of those goals without a car.  Would you do it in exactly the same way?  No.  Would they be as convenient?  Probably not – but point is your current patterns would change – a lot.  So if you have a car and then don’t, that’s a major life change.  People see this as an extreme loss / unacceptable disruption.  (On the flip side – I’ve seen people adapt pretty quickly to not having a car…)

         [ cheapness and convenience ]

         — mctrials23

         Agree.  For the cost of quite a bit of money, some admin etc. you get “last minute” convenience (or what seems to be that).  I think though people complain about insurance, tax and MOT these are just seen as “stuff I can’t avoid” (except in Lancashire) so people then tend to look at the cost of fuel per journey – which is often less than public transport.  Even including the other expenses the “marginal cost” of a car be remarkably low compared to anything other than cycling.  And people don’t tend to worry about the car getting stolen (unlike bikes).

         Some people could ditch the car but it feels a little like a “london centric” view when people think that even a sizeable chunk of the population could abandon their cars.

         — mctrials23

         Hmm… how does that measure up against the fact that the majority of trips driven are actually within cycling range (and many in walking distance)?  The majority of the UK population is urban.  There is a massive potential for change there.  As the Dutch and other different thinking countries show we don’t need magic.  The Dutch are (2019) car owners and users in similar numbers to the UK.  In addition – unfortunately for them they also have some of the longest commutes in Europe.  Many of them do so by car.  The point is – they show how we can have many more short trips made other than by car (and also use multi-modal transport to facilitate longer trips).  The NL shows some of the environmental, health and social benefits available from taming the motor vehicle.  It shows that this is possible without “returning to the stone age” and it’s nonsense to claim that “old people will be trapped in their homes” / “the ambulances won’t get through”.  (That’s down to *how* you change – the UK shows local authorities can make that happen without any cycle infra at all!)  It shows that this kind of change is possible even while people still own lots of cars!

         Is it politically possible though?  That’s the three-pipe problem!

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   • I think its entirely fair to

     I think its entirely fair to say £3k+ for a limited use vehicle that plenty of people won’t get masses of use out of is a luxury item most can’t afford

     There is, of course, the intermediate and much cheaper stage: the trailer- for that great majority of trips where I have to take the car because I’m getting loads of shopping (plus ‘don’t want to mess up my hair, get all sweaty etc. etc.) Of course, you need a bike for that as well

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   • But then there is a choice

     But then there is a choice when replacing the family’s second (or third) car.

     And then one of them is working from home, so the car is not always being used for the commute…

     And no congestion or ULEZ charges, no diverts because of LTNs, free parking in town…

     And of course the cargo bike is the answer to how you can transport that bag of cement that you can’t on a bicycle.

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   • If it takes you from needing

     If it takes you from needing 2 cars to one, it will be nearly paid for in a year just on the savings.

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3. Unreadable tosh from Chiles.
   Unreadable tosh from Chiles. “In these boxes sat a small child or two being transported to or from nursery or primary or prep school.” The extra “or” in place of a comma is completely unacceptable. I refuse to read the article any further.

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   • I’d suggest you take this up

     I’d suggest you take this up with the Guardian’s editor-in-chief, but it seems her husband’s copy is too important to let the last remaining subeditor near. 

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   • Presumably distinguishing

     Presumably distinguishing between “nursery”, on the one hand, and “primary or prep school” on the other. Though I accept that some would append the word ‘school’ to nursery too.

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     • True. I also think that
       True. I also think that “nursery, primary or prep school” would be perfectly acceptable.

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4. I did think that it was a bit

   I did think that it was a bit of an odd piece by Adrian Chiles (more so than normal) when I read it.  It doesn’t really seem to go anywhere or offer any real point.

   But, he probably does have a point about the perceived gentrification of the humble bicycle.  4 grand for a bike must seem like lottery winner money to most non cyclists whose heads seem to explode if you state that you regularly ride distances of more  than 100 feet & your bike costs more than a couple of hundred quid.   

   It’s not like the same doesn’t apply to cars though.  All those Insta lifestyle 4x4s you see in towns & cities serve what purpose & cost HOW MUCH? 

   NB – Other forms of bike are available.  And cars.

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   • I went into a Rutland Cycling
     I went into a Rutland Cycling store in Nottingham last week looking for a saddle for my partners new second hand bike. You had to look rather hard at the back to find bikes in the £500 to £600 pound range, or find a decent bicycle saddle for much less than the price we had paid for a very serviceable second hand bike. Its no surprise people get a rather distorted view of the cycling community when they walk past such shops or casually enter them. They do seem rather more akin to Park Lane car dealerships than the bikeshops of old.

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     • True that.

       True that.

       Fortunately my arse has always been comfortable on a Charge Spoon (which never cost me more than about £25 til they were discontinued,) & I have several still in use & going strong.  I may have to sell one of my kidneys when I need to acquire a new saddle….

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       • Still seem to be able to buy

         Still seem to be able to buy them – for £19.99.

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       • Tredz have them at £20.99
         Tredz have them at £20.99 with a further 10% off if you’re inclined to increase your stockpile.

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         • Oh that I am!

           Oh that I am!

           Was pretty sure that a while back Charge dropped their saddles & the personnel morphed into the Fabric brand (with the Spoon seeming to vanish).   Oh well, my kidney (and my arse it seems) are saved.  Happy times.

   • I bought my now over 20 year
     I bought my now over 20 year old entry level Golf new with a few security extras for 16000€. Look what that costs now.

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5. I had a win/win situation

   I had a win/win situation once on a local facebook group. Someone was commenting how cyclists ignored the cycle lane along a dual carriageway and used the pavement, which is shared use in places but not 100%. Rather than condescend I explained how bad the cycle lane was, it being narrow and full of mud and debris from pine trees the council decided to plant along the route. I had reported it and nothing had been done. He was quite shocked when I shared a video I had of cycling the cycle lane and changed his attitude.

   The next day the guy messaged me with a photo of a roadsweeper going along the route he saw while walking the route. So maybe someone on the council was on FB and woke up.

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6. I’m a bit conflicted on cargo

   I’m a bit conflicted on cargo bikes. I really want one for the ability to do extra stuff by bike that I might now do by car, but I’m a bit concerned that *in my case* it is just a case of N+1 and would be the bike equivalent of buying an SUV – excessive for most trips. It’s unlikely we would sell our car, so I recognise myself in the Chiles piece (even if it doesn’t really seem to have a point).       

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   • Why not a trailer, most of

     Why not a trailer, most of the capacity for under £100?

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     • Good question. In my case: (1

       Good question. In my case: (1) although I would use a cargo bike to take a fridge to the tip just because I could, my usual ‘cargo’ is a child. I’m instinctively uneasy about having them low down behind me, and they are also already officially too heavy for e.g. Burley trailers (rated to 18kg per child). (2) I think cargo bikes are really cool. Although I’m self aware, I still I have a weakness for buying what I want rather than what I strictly need…     

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       • quiff wrote:

         I still I have a weakness for buying what I want rather than what I strictly need…

         — quiff

         It sounds to me like you should just get yourself the cargo bike. Is approval from a stranger on the internet sufficient to push you over the edge on that decision? If it is, you have it.

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         • It’s where I source approval

           It’s where I source approval for most of my buying decisions. I am weighing up treating myself to one as a semi-sensible present to self for a significant birthday. Either that or a Fairlight Strael because it’s purple.   

         • I am building a new gravel/

           I am building a new gravel/ commuter using a Ragley Trig frame. I can give all sorts of reasons why I chose it (steel, full carbon fork, clearance, mudguard mounts etc.) but really the main reason was that it was purple (and I couldn’t afford a Strael).

         • As I already have a Mason
           As I already have a Mason Definition which is in many ways very similar and which I don’t really want to part with, it’s quite hard to make a case for a Strael too. But did I mention it’s purple?

   • Same. The roads here are

     Same. The roads here are lacking in cycle routes and being quite rural in places are such that something the size of a cargo bike would be stuck in traffic as much as a car. Public transport is poor to the point a car is still necessary for many journeys. I get more use out of a combination of my gravel bike with a pannier and brrompton. Both of which has allowed me to reduce the number of car journeys.

     It’s never going to be a one size fits all though, I think a lot of people forget there is big difference in cycling in somewhere like London and other big towns/cities, to towns and villages further out.

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   • quiff wrote:

     I’m a bit conflicted on cargo bikes. I really want one for the ability to do extra stuff by bike that I might now do by car, but I’m a bit concerned that *in my case* it is just a case of N+1 and would be the bike equivalent of buying an SUV – excessive for most trips. It’s unlikely we would sell our car, so I recognise myself in the Chiles piece (even if it doesn’t really seem to have a point).       

     — quiff

     I’m probably in the same position as you.  But we’re hitting the point where our children need ferrying in different directions, so I’m kind of in the place that if we thought we might consider a second car, I’d go for a cargo bike instead.

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   • As someone who’s been riding

     As someone who’s been riding a cargo bike on an (almost) daily basis for almost ten years, I’d say go for it. I’d wanted one for a while, but found it hard to justify the cost. I was unfortunate enough to get hit by a car on a roundabout and got a broken ankle out of it, but the insurance payout from that gave me the opportunity to buy my Bullitt. If I’d known before what I now know about how useful it is, I’d have found a way to get one. It depends on what model you get, but certainly the Bullitt rides very similarly to a normal bike. I bought it expecting that I’d only use it when I needed the extra capacity and would ride another bike most of the time, but I quickly found myself using it as my daily ride. I’m normally carrying something when I ride, even if it’s just my bag for work, and I really appreciate never needing to worry about what I need to carry. Plus they’re really fun bikes to ride.

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     • Thanks. A Bullitt is what my
       Thanks. A Bullitt is what my heart wants, but wonder if it might not be the friendliest for my wife to ride. I might spin this out into a thread on the forum…

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       • quiff wrote:

         Thanks. A Bullitt is what my heart wants, but wonder if it might not be the friendliest for my wife to ride. I might spin this out into a thread on the forum…

         — quiff

         Sounds to me like you actually might need two cargo bikes…

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   • If it’s just the one child
     If it’s just the one child can I recommend a kiddyback tandem? Something like a Helios is fine from 3.5 years if my experience is anything to go by. Significantly faster and less hassle than a cargo bike (again, based on my own experience).
     The thing cargo bikes are really good for is taking small kids out on longer rides on their own bike. I used to ride my big basket type one out as far as my 5-7 year old’s legs would carry him, then pop him and bike in the basket and ride back. Harder with a tandem but for ease of doing school run and for having a bike which feels more like a bike than a boat, it’s fantastic.

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7. Chiles deserves a modicum of

   Chiles deserves a modicum of sympathy.

   He was Bobbited in a bicycle accident at the age of 11.

   Still made it to the footy match, though.

   https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-news/1473657/adrian-chiles-penis-surgery-reattached-accident-BBC-Olympics-Radio-5-video-news-latest

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8. Uninformed man who hasn’t

   Uninformed man who hasn’t bought bike in years finds that bikes for transport are not toys. Coming next, an article that expresses shock at £35k starting price for an electric car.

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   • holtyboy wrote:

     Uninformed man who hasn’t bought bike in years finds that bikes for transport are not toys. Coming next, an article that expresses shock at £35k starting price for an electric car.

     — holtyboy

     I think that’s the thing: many people who don’t ride a bike, or who own a Halfords BSO which does circles at Centre Parcs once a year, have no idea how much a decent bike costs.  Or even a not decent bike.

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     • Or the joy in how a good bike

       Or the joy in how a good bike can ride.

       How good brakes can really be. And gears. The acceleration and speed.

       The way that when you and your trusty bicycle are truly one, that you can almost control it with thought…

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9. On the economics of cargo

   On the economics of cargo bikes – there’s a nice segment in this video on cargo bikes from “Notjustbikes”.  They’re expensive… except when compared to running a vehicle, when they become cheap as chips!

   (Of course “but I have to have a car!” which is a separate debate).

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10. On the numbers, buying and

    On the numbers, buying and running a cargo bike does not seem to cost any more than running an average dog.

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    • That’s why I have a second
      That’s why I have a second hand car, a second hand road bike and cats.

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      • Are the cats second hand too?

        Are the cats second hand too?

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        • SimoninSpalding wrote:

          Are the cats second hand too?

          — SimoninSpalding

          Oooo – Oxford Comma Wars! 

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        • SimoninSpalding wrote:

          Are the cats second hand too?

          — SimoninSpalding

          Can someone own a cat in the first place?

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          • Not IME
            Not IME

        • SimoninSpalding wrote:

          Are the cats second hand too?

          — SimoninSpalding

          If they’re road cats, they probably aren’t new – if they’re feral and have never had a previous owner, I suppose they aren’t second hand.

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        • SimoninSpalding wrote:

          Are the cats second hand too?

          — SimoninSpalding

          Probably third or fourth hand – the little buggers will live in however many houses they can find, where somebody feeds them

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11. If retailers could stop
    If retailers could stop fecking around with hot cross buns, that’ll be great.

    As for the rest … well, couldn’t be bothered to read it. Some bloke spouting off his personal opinion like it *matters*

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    • If you don’t want variants in
      If you don’t want variants in your hot cross bun, the answer is simple: don’t buy them. I like em.

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      • ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

        If you don’t want variants in your hot cross bun, the answer is simple: don’t buy them. I like em.

        — ShutTheFrontDawes

        BURN THE HERETIC!!!

         

        

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        • brooksby wrote:

          If you don’t want variants in your hot cross bun, the answer is simple: don’t buy them. I like em.

          — brooksby

          BURN THE HERETIC!!!

           

          — ShutTheFrontDawes
          On a hot cross…

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      • I make my own.

        I make my own.

        Paul Hollywood’s recipe.

        Strong bread flour, and proper hearty for it.

        We tend to get a half privilege day at work, Maundy Thursday, so I take the morning as holiday and spend the day making them. You can’t eat too many because of the aforementioned heartiness, so they last the whole weekend.

        Why is it that hot cross buns can be had for seemingly the whole year, but chocolate eggs are only available between Xmas and just after Easter?

        I’d like a Surly Big Fat Dummy, but more as my zombie apocalypse bike.

        But then the first survivor I encounter would kill me for it…

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        • Good for you. I’m a keen
          Good for you. I’m a keen baker too. Though I don’t buy into fancy flours. I just use Shipton Mill No4 for everything. Everything turns out awesome.

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    • I cant believe this article

      I cant believe this article he wrote only on Wednesday hasnt come up today…it would only take 4 days to have enough for a cargo bike https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/15/i-have-a-naked-lookalike-and-he-is-making-a-fortune-on-onlyfans-adrian-chiles

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      • Eugh, there’s a picture the

        Eugh, there’s a picture the mind’s eye will have to be scrubbed with bleach to remove…

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        • Rendel Harris wrote:

          Eugh, there’s a picture the mind’s eye will have to be scrubbed with bleach to remove…

          — Rendel Harris

          I agree. That’s one hell of a tough w*nk.

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12. Why is a glucose monitor

    Why is a glucose monitor illegal under UCI rules?

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    • It could make the racing less

      It could make the racing less exciting. Basically if all the riders just ride at their maximum exersion so they don’t run out of glucose you don’t have the attacks and cat and mouse of someone pushing too hard and dramatically getting caught at the end, you just have the fittest riders slowly riding away from everyone else. 

      The same arguments could, and should, be made for power meters and team radios in my opinion. The riders finding their effort harder to gauge and harder to meter out consistently makes for better racing, more surprises and more upsets. 

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      • OK, thanks

        OK, thanks

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      • Almost like one could go on a
        Almost like one could go on a lone breakaway and pace themselves nearly perfectly to the end…

        Complaining you didnt remove it because it cost alot of money to replace, late call up so unplanned ok fine get your team to pay it, but I think supersapiens & Kristen doth protest too much.

        As I said yesterday had she sought permission theyd probably not have stopped her having it, but she didnt, neither did the team that’s their drop off it’s not about health or menstrual cycles, these devices are banned in mens races too.

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13. Mr Chiles could buy 200 of
    Mr Chiles could buy 200 of these Leeds based band t-shirts (or the less family audience friendly version that’s also from Yorkshire, you can find on google) for 4k to share with his family and friends, theyve even got a song, the vinyl is also £20

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14. If you’ve got some time to

    If you’ve got some time to kill, pop on Autotrader and see what kind of car £4K gets you. Almost all of them are over 10 years old, and / or with astronomical mileage.

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15. Adrian Chiles showing he’s as

    Adrian Chiles showing he’s as out of touch with reality as David Cameron was regarding the price of a pint of milk.

    I’ve been riding cargo bikes for 15 years now, initially a human powered Bullitt, then an electic one, before buying the all singing, all dancing Urban Arrow XL which with a few neccessary options is considerably more than £3,999.

    I wonder how much his swanky flat in London costs in relative terms to a 2 up, 2 down in Brum? I bet there’s a huge difference.

    I get the point of the article, that many poorly paid individuals are servicing the needs of the affluent, but at least they ply their trade using vehicles that emit little in the way of noxious gases, take up a quarter of the space of even the smallest of vans, while giving the rider a healthy dose of exercise that will benefit them far more than sitting on their arse in a four wheeled vehicle.

    I’m not sure why he feels the need to sneer.

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    • Owd Big ‘Ead wrote:

      Adrian Chiles showing he’s as out of touch with reality as David Cameron was regarding the price of a pint of milk.

      I’ve been riding cargo bikes for 15 years now, initially a human powered Bullitt, then an electic one, before buying the all singing, all dancing Urban Arrow XL which with a few neccessary options is considerably more than £3,999.

      I wonder how much his swanky flat in London costs in relative terms to a 2 up, 2 down in Brum? I bet there’s a huge difference.

      I get the point of the article, that many poorly paid individuals are servicing the needs of the affluent, but at least they ply their trade using vehicles that emit little in the way of noxious gases, take up a quarter of the space of even the smallest of vans, while giving the rider a healthy dose of exercise that will benefit them far more than sitting on their arse in a four wheeled vehicle.

      I’m not sure why he feels the need to sneer.

      — Owd Big 'Ead

      There seems to be a theme of e-bikes/cargo-bikes being dismissed by mainstream media and Fox News even made up some rubbish about them (https://electrek.co/2023/03/13/why-fox-news-wants-you-to-be-afraid-of-electric-bikes/). I think it’s a sign that motor companies see them as a threat to their business model and it would be especially galling for wealthy people to be sat in their metal box in a queue whilst people just zoom past them on various bikes. I think we’re going to see more e-bike scare stories from the likes of the BBC etc.

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      • hawkinspeter wrote:

        There seems to be a theme of e-bikes/cargo-bikes being dismissed by mainstream media and Fox News even made up some rubbish about them (https://electrek.co/2023/03/13/why-fox-news-wants-you-to-be-afraid-of-electric-bikes/). I think it’s a sign that motor companies see them as a threat to their business model and it would be especially galling for wealthy people to be sat in their metal box in a queue whilst people just zoom past them on various bikes. I think we’re going to see more e-bike scare stories from the likes of the BBC etc.

        — hawkinspeter

        Absolutely right, the ace in the hole for the pro-car/anti-cycling lobby has always been how are you going to carry that bag of cement/cello/weekly shop/kid on a pushbike, if they see something that challenges that narrative they will of course jump on it as quickly as possible. The documentary Who Killed the Electric Car is a great example of the way governments and automobile manufacturers have no shame in colluding to try to quash anything that threatens their profitable hegemony.

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        • Rendel Harris wrote:

          Absolutely right, the ace in the hole for the pro-car/anti-cycling lobby has always been how are you going to carry that bag of cement/cello/weekly shop/kid on a pushbike, if they see something that challenges that narrative they will of course jump on it as quickly as possible. The documentary Who Killed the Electric Car is a great example of the way governments and automobile manufacturers have no shame in colluding to try to quash anything that threatens their profitable hegemony.

          — Rendel Harris

          I hadn’t heard of that documentary – found a full version available here: https://archive.org/details/vimeo-210171457

          I still think that electric cars aren’t made to save the planet, but to save the car industry.

          (Those cars must have been hella heavy with those lead-acid batteries)

          Edit: Lighter than I thought – 1400kg for their lead-acid model and 1,319kg for the NiMH model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1)

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          • Pah!  Those folks were really

            Pah!  Those folks were really late to the party.  My local works were cranking them out in 1898.  (Full disclosure – bust by 1900…)

            I can’t find the weight or endurance though.

16. Finally managed to finish

    Finally managed to finish fitting mudguards to my Ultimate Commuter. SKS Bluemels 75, longs. Took me about a year and a half. Originally purchased to see if I can get on with real mudguards before I splash serious money on some custom wooden ones from the US. No-one really makes standard guards for 27.5+ tyres, alongside a hoped for option of switching to 29s at 2.5. the Bluemels are a little narrow, but my 3inch Surly Dirt Wizards come up narrow. My Maxxis Chrinicals 3inch come up true, but summer can be dryer and sometimes less muddy.

    I first made an attempt at fitting Xmas 21, (I knew it wasn’t going to be easy) no holes in the rear, and SKS in their wisdom give a strut for the front that would be to short for a 26 inch wheel for guards that are meant to fit 27.5 or 29. Others have complained of this in reviews.

    So the proper strut was found, and a few other small parts I thought I might need (falsely) from SJS. And then left it until last Xmas. 

    When I found I needed more small parts, different ones, not the ones I already got. Some not available in this country. And bolts, they give you spacers to fit the strut around the front, but not the bolts. Borrowed a drill and some bits, (always rented, no need to drill holes) bits were a bit blunt, nice drill though. Fitted the rear on Monday, nice, no muddy splatter on the back of the bag. Plucked up enough courage to cut the front strut this evening, lot of measuring and test fitting last night. (WFH today, train strike)

    The front is tighter on the tyre than I would like, but the fork is not that accomodating and the guards look a bit to weak to make any major adjustments.

    They do look good, it allows the frame to be more pure, the Cruds I have always used and do work OK, take away some of the purity.

    And the rear is a lot more solid when installed than I thought it would be.

    We will see how it goes.

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    • I know mudguards can be a
      I know mudguards can be a fiddle to fit and it generally takes longer than expected … but I think 18 months to fit a set could be a record. Congrats. Anyway, pictures please or they’re not fitted. 😉

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      • I’ve had some Specialized
        I’ve had some Specialized plug + play, which they’re anything but, v1 mudguards for at least 5 years & still not got round to fitting them.

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      • I paid to have a LBS fit some
        I paid to have a LBS fit some Bluemels because I knew I wouldn’t get round to it. 2 years later I still haven’t rectified the dodgy unsightly curvature round the rear wheel, or the overlong stays which ejected the end caps on the first ride and scarred my calf

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        • quiff wrote:

          I paid to have a LBS fit some Bluemels because I knew I wouldn’t get round to it. 2 years later I still haven’t rectified the dodgy unsightly curvature round the rear wheel, or the overlong stays which ejected the end caps on the first ride and scarred my calf

          — quiff

          I think one change in attitude which made bike fettling far less stressful for me was when I changed from “It must be by-the-book perfect” to “That’ll do” 

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          • brooksby wrote:

            I think one change in attitude which made bike fettling far less stressful for me was when I changed from “It must be by-the-book perfect” to “That’ll do” 

            — brooksby

            One of my favourite sayings is “don’t let perfect be the enemy of good”.

    • Hmm, after reading that, a

      Hmm, after reading that, a wet arse and weil’s disease seems like an easier option!

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    • Is this one of these projects

      Is this one of these projects that is so awesome that it can’t ever be finished?  Or if finished, it could never be taken out of the house?

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