“Embarrassing”: Giro d’Italia joins NFT game…and fans aren’t happy; DSM lorry blocks Belfast bike route; ‘Bikes damage roads more than cars’; Italian pro talks “silent but not silent” Giro protest; Richard Ayoade rides to work + more on the live blog
SUMMARY
“Just an average day on a cycle route through Belfast”
Just an average day on a cycle route through Belfast. @PSNIBelfast @deptinfra @CyclingUK_NI @belfastcc pic.twitter.com/PmEuILC0GS
— Dominic Bryan (@Domsball) May 10, 2022
For university lecturer and unrepentant Spurs fan Dom Bryan, this morning’s commute showcased the best of what Belfast has to offer to its cyclists – cold temperatures, rain, and… lots of cars and lorries brazenly parked in or blocking bike lanes.
To add insult to misuse of infrastructure, the offending lorry proudly displays the logo of DSM, the sponsor of the men’s and women’s WorldTour squads.
Maybe Romain Bardet will have a word…
“It was a silent but not silent message”: Jacopo Guarnieri speaks out about Giro Hungary protest
🤟🤟🤟#Giro pic.twitter.com/SVcbEZQyU0
— Giro d’Italia (@giroditalia) May 4, 2022
Last week on the blog we reported on the Giro d’Italia organisers’ mealy-mouthed response to concerns about the grand tour starting in Hungary, where far-right prime minister Viktor Orbán has refused to support sanctions targeting Russian oil and anti-LGBT+ legislation has been passed in recent years.
In 2020 the Hungarian government made it impossible for transgender or intersex people to legally change their gender, while last year the country’s parliament unanimously voted to prohibit the dissemination of any content to minors which depicts gay or transgender people.
However, the CEO of Giro organisers RCS, Paulo Bellino, told reporters last week that he hoped to draw a line between sport and politics (and also, presumably, the real-life effects of those political decisions on gay and transgender people in Hungary).
“I think that I would like to go out and not to take into consideration politics,” Bellino said.
“I have no barrier and I think that our intention is to create an incredible event, in an Italian style, with the best riders in the world competing and giving the opportunity of a great party. I’m not entering in any political or different situation.
“I’m a sports organiser, I think that sport is the only moment in our lives as a society where everybody is free to demonstrate their capabilities, and their passion. There are no barriers. I would like for the Giro d’Italia in Budapest to do the same thing.”
> Enjoy the Giro…just don’t mention politics
Groupama-FDJ’s Italian Jacopo Guarnieri, well-known for his support of LGBT+ rights, took a decidedly different stance, visibly displaying a trans rights wrist band at the Giro’s team presentation last week.
Guarnieri, who only spoke to reporters upon the race’s return to Italy for far of retaliation, said the protest was “a kind of silent but not silent message”, and admits he isn’t sure whether the race should have started in Hungary.
“Basically, this was a topic in my mind for a long time because, as you all know, the law was approved in Hungary in the middle of 2021,” the 34-year-old said during Monday’s rest day.
“I spoke about it already in December with [Hungarian teammate] Attila Valter, and I asked him how the feeling was in the country and so on. It was my idea already a long time ago.
“In the beginning, I was thinking to have something with the rainbow flag on it. But coincidentally, two weeks before leaving for the Giro, a friend of mine came up with this bracelet, which is more of a trans flag. They told me the story from the cyclocross world championship [where activists protested the host state Arkansas’ anti-trans legislation], which was probably seen a bit more worldwide.
“I didn’t know what kind of support to use, but when I saw there was a bracelet, I decided to wear one during the presentation on the stage, so it was a kind of a silent but not silent message.”
> UCI world cyclocross championships under fire due to anti-trans laws in host state Arkansas
He continued: “We’re not superheroes, but you think they cannot say so much in public against a foreigner. I took the chance, and I took advantage of the fact that I was in a position where I was a little more safe.
“I thought maybe it could piss off somebody off, but I was thinking of the public more than the politicians.
“I thought maybe in the time trial somebody might try to punch me. But I thought about that and then I thought, ‘Well, a punch I can sustain.’ So I said, ‘OK, why not.’ After all, it’s Europe, so let’s try. I was confident I could pass the message without taking a risk.”
While Guarnieri admitted to feeling “a bit afraid” about the protest before the team presentation, he said that the support he received on social media convinced him that it was the right call, though he says he has not heard from the organisers about their thoughts on the issue.
Apparently if you share love (and respect), you get love 🏳️⚧️
— Jacopo Guarnieri (@jacopoguarnieri) May 5, 2022
The Italian lead out man also said that he hasn’t received much in the way of feedback from his fellow riders, but argued there are many reasons why pro cyclists – who were noticeably late to the party in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement which permeated sport – tend to be hesitant regarding their political views.
“With cycling, we don’t see so many, I think there are many reasons, I don’t think there’s just one explanation,” he said. “Some maybe don’t have any idea and maybe some are against.”
“Personally I’ve always been clear what my ideas are and I’m always clear to respectfully explain to someone some topics.
“Not everything can be brought into the discussion but for sure, I’m a person too after all. Let’s say, we’re not experts on international policy so I try to be more positive, I don’t have a solution for what Hungary can do for transexual people, I can just share my support and share a positive vibe. That’s me, simple as that.”
When asked if it was right that the Giro’s Grande Partenza took place in Hungary (after accusations of sportswashing also surrounded the race’s trip to Israel in 2018), Guarnieri replied: “I don’t know actually, it’s hard to say. There are many things involved, and things also came from three years ago, when the laws weren’t already in place. I’m not an organiser so I don’t know what’s behind those decisions.
“If I look on the other side, I can say I was there and I could show support while I was there. It’s hard to say, I think it’s a mix in between. Isolate and try to fight from the inside. It’s not my decision, like what you said before, try to be 100 percent honest with yourself, there are many places we shouldn’t go. It’s not easy.
“It’s a balance between fighting for what is right, and try to survive in your own job. It won’t be any easier. It’s not my role to decide what’s behind this but I can have my personal view. On some things, I think it was right to honour the contract, on the other hand maybe not.”
Get ready for a pun eruption as the Giro visits Mount Etna
Etna will be a much more difficult climb if the vulcano is erupting. #Giro
— Exceptionally Inaccurate Cycling Facts (@ei_cyclingfacts) May 10, 2022
Ah, the Giro is finally back on Italian soil for its now almost customary trip to Sicily’s Mount Etna, one of the most active volcanoes in the world.
The climb has certainly been an active one in the Giro in recent years – of the race’s seven visits to Etna (including today’s), five have been since 2011, and four since 2017.
While the race has often failed to ignite [sorry] on the volcano’s long and steady slopes (largely due to its early position in the race), in recent years it has been the scene of some explosive GC action [again, sorry].
In 2018 Simon Yates took the pink jersey with a devastating late attack (a portent of things to come today, perhaps?), while in 2020 Geraint Thomas’ neutral zone crash put paid to his GC hopes and eventual winner Tao Geoghegan Hart lost over two and a half minutes.
Good day for the Igneous Grenadiers today, amirite?
— Edward Pickering (@EdwardPickering) May 10, 2022
But if the favourites, worried about what’s to come, just decide to enjoy the cloudy ambience and ride up together on today’s stage, at least the GCN guys will have time to think up a few more dodgy puns…
So, once more with feeling, will the battle for pink erupt today on Mount Etna, or will some of the favourites’ legs turn into lava?
I’ll stop now…
Count the cyclists
Cycling is a remarkably efficient mode of transport, just look at the number of people compared to 3 vehicles in the same amount of space. pic.twitter.com/hkM4NauWge
— Jack Mayorcas (@jackamayorcas) May 10, 2022
Just look at those car lanes- hardly used!
— 🇺🇦who’s next? (@awalmsley) May 10, 2022
Action at the Giro – at last!
After a relatively benign (alright, boring) start to the Giro in Hungary, it’s all kicking off on the roads of Sicily this morning.
The lumpy opening kilometres to the stage to Mount Etna have already seen plenty of action – the break has taken quite a while to establish itself, pink jersey Mathieu van der Poel and Biniam Girmay have been in the thick of the action (we should get used to this in the next few years), even putting in a few digs themselves, while Sunday’s stage winner Mark Cavendish has been struggling off the back of the bunch, though he is being shepherded by trusty lieutenant Michael Mørkøv.
Crashes have also played a role during the frenetic opening kilometres: a pileup in a narrow street saw Alejandro Valverde and Monte Zoncolan conqueror Lorenzo Fortunato hit the deck, while a moto rider – who seemed to clip the wall at the side of the road – took down Lotto-Soudal’s Roger Kluge and Bardiani’s Luca Covili.
Simon Yates – the pink jersey elect in most pundits’ eyes, with Van der Poel expected to suffer on the summit finish – also appears to have crashed and has been treated back at the medical car for what appears to be a knee injury.
The Giro has also confirmed that one of the pre-race favourites, Astana’s Miguel Angel Lopez – known for a dramatic abandon – has already stepped off the bike. His team says he has been suffering from a left hip injury.
🙁@SupermanlopezN drops out of the race
🙁@SupermanlopezN abbandona il Giro#Giro pic.twitter.com/ibLLaMjvo7
— Giro d’Italia (@giroditalia) May 10, 2022
As I said, it’s been a bit dramatic.
The stage finally seems to have settled down now, with a break eight minutes up the road, though I’ll keep up updated when the stage surely erupts once again on the slopes of Mount Etna (last one I promise!).
Richard Ayoade makes headlines – for riding his bike to work
Riding a bicycle to and from work probably shouldn’t be a national news story.
But it’s nice to see it all the same.https://t.co/Vt4cqFoHry
— Adam Tranter (@adamtranter) May 10, 2022
Another reason to love Richard Ayoade…
Though next time you’re on your commute to work, pat yourself on the back for ‘shunning the glitz and glam’… of traffic jams presumably?
Definitely home the quickest then
— Bob From Accounts 🚲 (@BobFromAccounts) May 10, 2022
“Shuns glitz and glam”?
Mate, that’s a Brompton.— Jase Warner (@jase_warner_) May 10, 2022
‘Bikes damage roads more than cars’: Stupid anti-cycling arguments, part 785
As far as anti-cycling bingo goes, if this now-deleted doozy of an argument doesn’t score you a full house, I don’t know what will:
I wonder if John has ever realised how stupid his comment was. pic.twitter.com/0PPtvaB7Z6
— Tommy (@Wombletom) May 10, 2022
Luckily, quite a few were on hand to explain to John where he went ever so slightly askew with his maths…
Hey that’s not fair John may be right. I’m sure he’d be happy for me to cycle over his foot then drive over his other foot so we can settle this argument.
— Crispo (@bigcrispo) May 10, 2022
Wow, that’s so stupid it hurts to read it 😧
— Bill Hulley (@billhulley) May 10, 2022
— Petrichor (@Sinabhfuil) May 10, 2022
I often wonder myself if I am putting too much strain on the infrastructure with my 25c tires. Maybe I should buy an SUV instead 🤪
— Kevin Clarke 🇺🇦 (@Kurako76) May 10, 2022
Cargo bikes, Strasbourg style
One barge load and 15 of these clever cargo bikes takes 150 small vans off the road…saving 122 tonnes CO2 in the process https://t.co/yAJZHdRegw
— ETA Services Ltd (@ETAservicesltd) May 9, 2022
Record-breaking Scottish endurance athlete aims to become fastest woman to cycle North Coast 500
The countdown has finally started to begin the @GWR @RRA_GB attempt to become the fastest female to cycle the North Coast 500. @GWR have set the time of 35 hours to achieve this. The route is stunning & challenging with over 10,000m elevation…. pic.twitter.com/gQEZOVBKFu
— Lejogmack 🏴 (@Lejogmack) April 26, 2022
Endurance cyclist Christina Mackenzie, who last year became the fastest woman ever to ride from Land’s End to John O’Groats, covering the length of Great Britain (all 839 miles of it) in 51 hours, five minutes and 27 seconds, has set her sights on a new long-distance record – the North Coast 500.
Mackenzie will set off from Inverness Castle in the early hours of Friday morning, and must ride the 516 mile Highland loop in under 35 hours to take the record.
“It has been a tough six months with training and battling the Scottish winter, but also good preparation for any conditions we may encounter,” she said ahead of her attempt.
“It is a challenging course with over 10,000 metres of elevation, the clock does not stop from the time I start so there will be no non-essential stops, all nutrition will be consumed on the bike through hourly hand-ups from the support team at the side of the road.”
As part of her ride, Mackenzie will be raising money for Cruse Scotland, a charity that provides free professional bereavement support to children and adults struggling to cope with grief.
She continued: “Now all the hard work has been done, I am looking forward to getting started and hopefully I can enjoy some of the fabulous scenery the course has to offer, but I am excited to see people roadside supporting.”
‘Cyclists should ride on the right-hand side of the road’: Stupid anti-cycling arguments, part 786
When you think the average Plymothian can’t sink any lower this happens. How spectacularly stupid do you have to be to present the thoughts expressed in the image as somehow “a good idea”?
It’s a comment on the local rag’s version of Plymouth being 3rd most crap for cycling pic.twitter.com/81MXAXQGUT— 🚲 Will – on Mastodon under the same name 🇬🇧🇿🇦 (@WilliamNB) May 10, 2022
Just when you thought John’s belief that cyclists damage the roads more than motorists was the most bonkers anti-cycling argument you would read today…
Well, feast your eyes on this corker from the comments section of the Plymouth Herald, where one reader has come up with an ingenious solution to the dangers cyclists face on the road – by making it compulsory for them to ride on the right-hand side of the road, towards traffic.
Yep, that’s right – apparently riding towards traffic will increase safety for “all road users”, because cyclists will stop the “dangerous practice” of riding two abreast and will – wait for it – “be more able to take evasive action if necessary”.
Yikes.
Kämna wins stage and López takes pink as GC battle fails to erupt on Etna
There was a faint puff of smoke, rather than a full-scale volcanic eruption, on the slopes of Mount Etna today, as the general classification battle largely lay dormant on stage four of the Giro d’Italia.
It was a day to remember, however, for 24-year-old Trek-Segafredo rider Juan Pedro López who, despite making a mess of the final corner and almost clipping breakaway colleague Lennard Kämna’s wheel, became the new race leader after a spirited display on the final climb.
Following López’ late error, Bora-Hansgrohe’s Kämna took the stage, to add to his win at the 2020 Tour de France, after timing his effort to perfection on the 22 kilometre climb up Etna, catching the Spaniard with just under three kilometres to go before the pair seemingly came to a gentleman’s agreement to share the spoils and finish with a stage and a pink jersey apiece.
Behind in the peloton, Ineos were riding like it’s 2013 – setting a strong but ferocious pace which failed to cause too much damage in the favourites’ group, which was 17-strong by the finish.
Simon Yates – who looked to be suffering from knee trouble after a crash earlier in the day – seemed comfortable despite Ineos’ best efforts, and finished at the back of the GC group.
However, the stage turned out to be a disaster for both Astana and Jumbo-Visma. After Miguel Ángel López was forced to abandon in the opening kilometres due to a pre-existing hip injury, Astana’s new de facto leader, two-time Giro winner Vincenzo Nibali, riding on his home Sicilian roads, lost nearly two and a half minutes to his rivals for the pink jersey.
Jumbo-Visma’s Tom Dumoulin, whose GC hopes looked so promising during Saturday’s time trial, was also dropped with 10 kilometres to go, while his young teammate Tobias Foss, ninth at last year’s Giro, finished alongside Nibali.
The Giro Launches maglia rosa NFT - and fans aren't happy
Fuck sake https://t.co/dvhrAay0z1
— Cillian Kelly (@irishpeloton) May 10, 2022
A Giro NFT collection? That’s so 2021…
Obviously it makes sense for the Giro organisers to wait until the race has actually started before launching their own attempt to enter the crypto market, but doing so less than a week after new data revealed that NFT sales have fallen 92 percent since September seems a little misguided, to say the least.
Though regardless of the poor timing I’m sure, just as the founders of Bike Club NFT experienced earlier this year, cycling fans will embrace this new venture with open arms…
… Or maybe not, especially as the announcement was made at the same time the live race coverage was suffering from a lack of on-screen data:
Get rid of this stuff and concern yourself with making live coverage that doesn’t break. This is embarrassing
— Damien Evans (@DamienEvans7) May 10, 2022
Nooooo… guys NFTs aren’t it
— giro(byn) d’italia (@robynjournalist) May 10, 2022
I’d have had more respect if you’d have set up a Facebook shop selling wax melts 🙄
— Andy (gi)Roo d’Italia (@ViewFromEssex) May 10, 2022
giro d’italia social media manager and whomever was behind this decision I actually don’t love you anymore
— abby (in pink)🎗️ (@wildewisteria) May 10, 2022
— Mika (@BearsAndSport) May 10, 2022
people that like this, worldwide: 0
— sorridere al mattino (@anewcd) May 10, 2022
The S. P. Yates School of Media Training
I think that both Dumoulin and Foss have been taking interview lessons from Simon Yates. Both said “it is what it is” after today’s stage. #Giro105
— Sadhbh O’Shea (@SadhbhOS) May 10, 2022
Fewer NFTs, more dogs watching races content, please…
Woof Allez Woof 🥳
Furry fan cheering for his owner 😍 #Giro #GiroDItalia #ReinTaaramäe pic.twitter.com/nk7Ms2KaPA— Hanna Taaramäe (@HannaTaaramae) May 10, 2022
10 May 2022, 08:05
10 May 2022, 08:05
10 May 2022, 08:05
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Latest Comments
Delightful
@perce we all like a polite and courteous poster! Much as motorists like a polite and courteous cyclist doffing their helmet (possibly from a hedge they've obliging leapt into along, say, a leafy lane in Essex).
"attributed by experts", yeah sure, ok! Citing 8 year out of date per capita figures shows the weakness of your argument. Here's a couple of reasons I believe that the Netherlands fatality rate might be higher than the UK (independent of the crappy Dutch infrastructure), none of which you and Chrisonatrike suggested or mentioned: 1) not enough people wearing helmets in Netherlands. All sane people know that wearing a cycling helmet can potentially save lives, yet the Dutch seem to think themselves too special to wear one. Despite the fact the Netherlands has a superior privatised health system compared to our rotten, inefficient NHS, post-crash options are limited for people with severe head trauma which will inevitable lead to increased fatalities in the Netherlands. 2) Risk compensation by drivers and cyclists. Cyclists are lulled into a false sense of security thinking that segregated cycle lanes are their special infrastructure which insulate them from accidents. They don't. Then, car drivers take more risks due to increased congestion caused by the same cycling infrastructure, leading to a double-whammy of risky behaviour. 3) Cultural issues. People in the UK are renowned for their stiff upper lip, stoic, courteous behaviour. They naturally protect more vulnerable road users. I, myself, had a magnificent cycling experience earlier today on the local country lanes, waving and saying hello to the locals and cyclists alike. There really isn't a place like the UK (well, outside London anyway) that matches our hospitality and camaraderie. P.s. I'm not sure who Nigel is, I assumed you meant Nigel Farage but I can assure you I'm not him and that he has more pressing things to do than write responses on a cycling website. I hope that's helped your understanding a little, and enabled you to think a little independently rather than just suck in information that self-described "experts" want you to believe. Oh and Norway et Al are terrible comparators as hardly anyone lives there (and who'd want to to be honest? Lol!)
Yup. The UK has latterly tried add the safety back in after it was lost for vulnerable road users. (And after giving all the direct routes / valuable space over to motoring). But it's offering a modicum more safety in return for them losing a lot more convenience - so that has been reducing the "problem" also! Plus we lean heavily on "but people can be trusted to be reasonable" and "for any misbehaviour police it better". Unfortunately those are not good assumptions or choices for safety in a motornormative environment. (And road policing isn't a priority anyway). NL isn't the only place in Europe they've realised that mass motoring the old way is unsustainable (for lots of reasons). They're just the furthest on. In NL they still have some challenges because the (larger - thanks US!) car strikes back, and there are some questions about the impact of e-things. But they're *still* investing in improvements, and proportionally significantly more than the UK, even though they're already far ahead...
The Stockton Hub which I used occasionally (I don't live in Stockton) was open only during standard office hours, Mondays to Fridays, rendering it useless for families and leisure cyclists. It's a standard problem for a lot of government-funded or charity-run public services which close when many people most need them, presumably because staffing costs would rise substantially. The article also mentions cycle hubs in Redcar and Darlington which, so far as I can tell, have never existed.
Ho ho ho! No, we need to stop these idiotic cyclists completely (or limit them to velodromes, parks and maybe "rail trails") - that way there won't be any cyclist road fatalities! Simples! Meanwhile in many parts ofEurope they're finding the benefits of making it such that lots of people don't use cars for every journey - by fixing it so it's convenient and increasingly safe - despite much larger numbers of people getting around outside of cars than in the UK...
The fatality rate in the UK has fallen five years in a row during a period, starting with the Covid years, in which building of "idiotic Dutch roundabouts and segregated cycling infrastructure" has massively increased, so in fact using your own benchmark the statistics clearly show the benefits of increased cycling infrastructure. Not quite the gotcha you seem to think when viewed through non-troll lenses, Nige. The stupidity of your "argument" is further clearly illustrated by the fact that the list-topping Norway, Sweden and Denmark all have massive segregated cycling networks. The Dutch model used to demonstrate clearly the safer nature of the Dutch system, e.g. in 2018 the Netherlands had 8 fatalities per billion kms ridden compared to 21 in the UK; the primary reason for the increased fatality rates in the Netherlands has been attributed by experts to the massive uptake in ebikes (47% of new bikes sold in NL are now ebikes compared to 10% in the UK), particularly amongst the older population, nothing to do with the infrastructure.
It used to be great price this, but they played the ace marketing card and got the popularity and now...
Many thanks for posting these statistics and showing the downward trend in fatalities. One thing that stood out for me when clicking through to the government statistics page is the UK's exemplary record on this Vs other European countries, especially the much-vaunted record of The Netherlands, which actually shows twice as many fatalities as the UK per million of the population. The question that arises is therefore: why are the greens and other left-wing parties so keen to adopt an inferior and more dangerous road system when ours is obviously working well? It smacks of a need to regulate people's lives and curtail freedom. We need to stop these idiotic Dutch roundabouts and segregated cycling infrastructure, and get people sharing the road in a fair and equal manner, when the statistics show it's safer to do so. (Chart shows road fatalities per million population)
30 thoughts on ““Embarrassing”: Giro d’Italia joins NFT game…and fans aren’t happy; DSM lorry blocks Belfast bike route; ‘Bikes damage roads more than cars’; Italian pro talks “silent but not silent” Giro protest; Richard Ayoade rides to work + more on the live blog”
Surely there’s a wannabe
Surely there’s a wannabe Danny MacAskill in Belfast who could demonstrate their skills by riding over the cars, preferably with some media to record it and publicise the selfish, illegal behaviour of the drivers. Be really impressive if they managed the truck.
Or, more prosaically, has Dom reported any of this to the authorities?
in Ye Goode Olde Dayse the
in Ye Goode Olde Dayse the army would have blown them up
Bring back the Control Zones!
Bring back the Control Zones!
https://www.geograph.ie/photo/2261030
Aye, that’s just round the
Boom!
“Suspect Device”
“Suspect Device”
Don’t forget the planters and
Don’t forget the planters and oil drums filled with with concrete by the kerbs. Also most towns had their own LTNs in the form of gates to keep the motorist out during the night.
Re Count the cyclists
Re Count the cyclists
Good old CS7 – not usually that busy when I go through (usually on the road pretty early) – and it’s just a painted murder strip / bus lane at that point. Imagine what having actual infrastructure could achieve…
In fairness, the old Stockwell chicane & the former Oval Demolition Derby section are now way safer with the segregated sections in place.
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‘Viktor Orbán has refused to support sanctions against Russia’.
.
Simply not true. Check it out. Don’t spin falsehoods.
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If you are going to be political, at least get your facts right.
.
Yes he has.
Yes he has.
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He has refused to agree to EU plans to end imports of Russian oil or to supply arms to Ukraine.
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If you are going to defend far-right homophobic anti-democratic kleptocrats, at least get your facts right.
.
Rendel Harris wrote:
— Rendel HarrisFacts are irrelevant to trolls.
Flintshire Boy wrote:
Stating “Simply not true” implies that anyone trusts what you are saying and that you are some kind of expert on the matter. It’s better to provide some evidence to back up your position or else you look like a fool.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/orban-says-new-eu-sanctions-against-russia-would-harm-hungary-more-report-2022-05-05/
(What is it with these conspiracy/right-wing nutters that they are unable to provide any corroboration and instead come up with “do your own research” or “check it out”. They just don’t seem to understand how to argue using facts.)
hawkinspeter wrote:
Because – and they’d be correct about this if nothing else – rational argument using logic and / or facts is only one mode of persuasion. Mostly “arguments” involve volume (loudness or amount of argument), distraction, saying we have a bigger dad, appearing to have more friends or wearing a cooler suit. Beyond that it’s ethos and pathos with due attention to kairos – logos often comes a poor fourth. So it may be the least commonly used mode. I suspect for most of us, most of the time (if we’re really paying honest attention) may be one of the least effective one. Merely agreeing some facts with your opponent – which would be a prerequisite of this kind of argument – can be very hard and quite an unusual activity because it demands cooperation with “the other”.
hawkinspeter wrote:
There is a much deeper problem than that. Which is unless the facts come from one of their ‘trusted’ sources they will simply dismiss it out of hand.
I’ve had many discussions around certain topics where the ‘evidence’ they provide is joe bloggs on Facebook said this, or an expert who holds a singular dissenting voice from those of the wider expert community and they hold that one dissenting voice over the majority consensus.
If you look back at the start of the mass vaccination for covid there was a dissenting scientist Luc Montagnier who made some claims around vaccines causing variants of covid…. and that dissenting voice was seized upon by those against vaccines…. and twisted it to the “there is no hope for those who have been vaccinated already, we must be prepared to incinerate the bodies. They will all die from antibody-dependent enhancement within 2 years”
TriTaxMan wrote:
Agreed – however in the general sense this is what we all do. We all innately rank information according to a collection of heuristics (e.g. “if Stephen Hawking said it, it’s true“, “the opposite of what Jeremy Vine says”, “ignore all input from Daily Mail” etc.) and odd psychological features. These are not in general closely aligned with “reason and logic”. They don’t need to be – they just have to “work for us” and our social grouping. In addition the internet caters to this tendency. Sites and systems are designed that way – because “Facebook for the Amish” or “Grindr for Islamic extremists and evangelical Christians” tend to be ad-revenue-limiting choices. Or people just self-organise into echo chambers. I don’t hang around paying attention to stuff I think is moonshine laid out by moon-calfs or antithetical to my core beliefs.
We can be more aware of these tendencies – with effort – or not but they’re always there.
Luckily in this particular instance – although I’m no expert and will be wrong on some details – I am reasonably confident I’m not shouting from behind the bars of my asylum cell at curious passers-by that the earth is flat.
chrisonatrike wrote:
There has been a long-standing mission to move past the he-said/she-said tribal method of determining truth and it’s known as The Scientific Method.
In general, the idea is that people should share the information and method used to reach a result and thus (in theory) the work can be replicated and either supported or refuted. Good scientists understand that they’re sometimes right, but most often they’re wrong – that’s why Stephen Hawking used to have fun with bets between himself and other scientists over who was right or not about some undecided phenomena.
Contrast that to politics where the underlying numbers and facts are secondary to what bilge comes out of someone’s mouth and which “tribe” they are a member of. It reminds me of monkeys throwing poop as a means of declaring their territory. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of people that mistake that for reasoning.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Although this algorithm is specifically designed to run on humans and mitigate their biases and inaccuracies it transpires that humans are biased at larger and smaller scales than we were aware of [1] [2] [3]. Thankfully this itself is susceptible to scientific study and has suggested novel approaches. Which should keep us getting published and funded.
Now this actually sounds like a viable solution for decision making. Like insects establishing consensus by quorum sensing or South Korean politicians turning voting into rugby (other legislatures are available) the “cack quorum” or “dung division” has the potential to produce decisions swiftly and clearly. We should trial it (we’re empiricists at least). If it ends up just muddying the water ditch it.
It would improve the quality of parliamentary TV at least.
chrisonatrike wrote:
Would we really notice much difference?
Not that I think this was an
Not that I think this was an honest comment but, despite that, the article wording could have been better. Orban doesn’t support sanctions on oil and gas, as others have pointed out, but he does support (though not agree with) some sanctions on Russia.
> Hungary supports European unity and also the sanctions against Russia – with which though he does not agree, he accepts and does not veto – but any sanctions concerning energy are a red line that cannot be crossed, he laid down.
(https://miniszterelnok.hu/if-the-left-wins-hungary-will-be-dragged-into-the-war/)
The wording could have been
The wording could have been much better. Hungary is heavily dependent on Russian oil and gas. Orban appears to be trying to get the best deal for his country in solving that problem. The story was a bit of a cheap shot. It could also have taken all of Europe to task for failing to turn off the Russian gas. The truth is the situation is complicated. It was simplified to make Orban look bad, and that’s just bad reporting. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/09/russia-putin-ally-orban-stalls-europes-oil-embargo-against-moscow.html if the ban was being proposed on natural gas, Germany would likely = Hungary. https://www.politico.eu/article/target-germany-if-you-want-eu-gas-embargo-roberta-metsola-tells-climate-activists/ maybe cycling websites should state out of reporting on complicated global energy issues.
Regarding “Bikes causing more
Regarding “Bikes causing more harm to roads” commenter. Well we know PBU used to have massive self-loathing being as he was a cyclist who hated cyclists, however now we have a pic of him, we should have guessed why he was particularly hard on “bigger” cyclists.
Hooray for Richard Ayoade
Hooray for Richard Ayoade cycling to work!
Just recently watched an old classic series – Garth Marenghi’s Darkplace that features his striking acting style. He really should be a Doctor Who at some point.
The dirt bike chase episode is one of the most tense chase scenes ever filmed.
He was also brilliant in The
He was also brilliant in The IT Crowd.
eburtthebike wrote:
Was he in that?
He was good in Mighty Boosh,
He was good in Mighty Boosh, something about “the Crunch”
And Tony Harrison.
That series is so good!
That series is so good!
Shake wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnQ1gA-_WLE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v5suGCiC-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9veOumGnuU
Not that it adds anything to
Not that it adds anything to the story but Richard lives at the bottom of my road, often see him out and about on his Brompton. Seen him in the LBS as well, never spoken (I know, this is a great story, right?) but he always smiles if he catches your eye and people I know who have chatted with him say he’s a top fella.
People complaining about NFTs
People complaining about NFTs in a totally online only available format, seems a bit meta if you ask me
Yeah – that’s old. I think
Yeah – that’s old. I think nowadays you’re expected to hack the Difference Engine and printer to produce typeset duplicating a comments section but done in the style of the seals and notes added by the emperors to the Admonitions Scroll. The ironic / chin-stroking part comes by then obtaining lithographs, debugging the engine, destroying the plates and putting the prints in escrow.
Otherwise it’s no more than saying “yeah man”.
If you want a random pink
If you want a random pink image just make your own!