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CXR94Di2 wrote:

We have sold all our ICE, moved over to full electric vehicles. We used a smaller capacity EV to prove we could live with the car day to day. After 30000 miles in 18 months it was clear we could live and use an EV

Despite my misgivings that EVs are not the solution, we'll probably move to one when we next change our car, in two years. It definitely won't be an SUV! Mrs Dobbo (principal driver in our house) currently runs a Fiat 500 (okay, hands up, it's actually an Abarth 595) which is a great size for urban use (kids gone, two cats). There will be some practical problems to overcome though. We live in a mid-terrace house so how and where to charge the thing will require a bit of sideways thinking. We've got charging points in work, which is great, but I'm retiring next year...... Not to worry, one charge should last us well over 10 days use, so we'll probably be able to work something out.

My daughter, always planning ahead, has just had her garage refurbished, including installation of a charging point. Will be a good selling feature, she says. She's not wrong.

dobbo996 wrote:

There will be some practical problems to overcome though. We live in a mid-terrace house so how and where to charge the thing will require a bit of sideways thinking. We've got charging points in work, which is great, but I'm retiring next year...... Not to worry, one charge should last us well over 10 days use, so we'll probably be able to work something out.

This is a perfect example of how infrastructure needs to change in step with the move to EVs.  There are thousands of petrol stations across the country and none of them popped up spontaneously., they were built.  Charging points should likewise be built - in every multi storey car park, every shopping centre, every supermarket - just topping up for an hour here and 30 minutes there will for most people mean no need to ever charge at home.

burtthebike wrote:

If Lego Road Safety and Planning understand the problem, why doesn't the government, local planners, MPs, councillors etc etc?

Electric cars aren't going to change anything, except possibly to make driving more popular, because "hey, I'm not polluting am I" so people will feel more comfortable driving.  They are a dead end being promoted by ignorant people and those pretending to be green.  It's bad enough when you can hear a car revving up behind you, imagine when they are silent.

I'll happily trade the possible inconvenience of silent running cars for all the fumes that traditional engines put out. If I get surprised by a silent car behind me, then that just means that I have to look round more often. It's not as good as people not driving so much, but at least the air would be a bit cleaner.

hawkinspeter wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

If Lego Road Safety and Planning understand the problem, why doesn't the government, local planners, MPs, councillors etc etc?

Electric cars aren't going to change anything, except possibly to make driving more popular, because "hey, I'm not polluting am I" so people will feel more comfortable driving.  They are a dead end being promoted by ignorant people and those pretending to be green.  It's bad enough when you can hear a car revving up behind you, imagine when they are silent.

I'll happily trade the possible inconvenience of silent running cars for all the fumes that traditional engines put out. If I get surprised by a silent car behind me, then that just means that I have to look round more often. It's not as good as people not driving so much, but at least the air would be a bit cleaner.

A fair point, but if electric cars only solve a single problem that profligate car use causes, is it worth it?  Deisels are being phased out, all cars have catalytic converters, lead disappeared a long time ago and cars are much more fuel efficient now, so while exhaust emissions from them are not pleasant, they're vastly better than they used to be.  Electric cars won't cure congestion, climate change, danger, injury, death, social division, health or obesity, but they are being promoted as the answer to everything.  If the money spent on them was transferred to cycling, the effect would be profound on all of those problems, including pollution at point of use.

And where will we get the energy to power them all?  Any significant shift to e-cars would put demands on electricity production that are beyond it's capacity. 

Electric cars are a sop to the greens and virtue signalling, nothing else.

burtthebike wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

If Lego Road Safety and Planning understand the problem, why doesn't the government, local planners, MPs, councillors etc etc?

Electric cars aren't going to change anything, except possibly to make driving more popular, because "hey, I'm not polluting am I" so people will feel more comfortable driving.  They are a dead end being promoted by ignorant people and those pretending to be green.  It's bad enough when you can hear a car revving up behind you, imagine when they are silent.

I'll happily trade the possible inconvenience of silent running cars for all the fumes that traditional engines put out. If I get surprised by a silent car behind me, then that just means that I have to look round more often. It's not as good as people not driving so much, but at least the air would be a bit cleaner.

A fair point, but if electric cars only solve a single problem that profligate car use causes, is it worth it?  Deisels are being phased out, all cars have catalytic converters, lead disappeared a long time ago and cars are much more fuel efficient now, so while exhaust emissions from them are not pleasant, they're vastly better than they used to be.  Electric cars won't cure congestion, climate change, danger, injury, death, social division, health or obesity, but they are being promoted as the answer to everything.  If the money spent on them was transferred to cycling, the effect would be profound on all of those problems, including pollution at point of use.

And where will we get the energy to power them all?  Any significant shift to e-cars would put demands on electricity production that are beyond it's capacity. 

Electric cars are a sop to the greens and virtue signalling, nothing else.

In general, I agree with your points, but if people are going to be buying new cars anyway, then at least electric cars are a bit better for the environment. As they use electricity, they can in theory be powered by solar/wind/squirrels etc. so they are much more flexible. Also, they can made to recover energy lost through braking which again is a slight improvement over infernal combustion engines.

Ultimately, we need to be redesigning our cities around people and not cars (electric or otherwise).

burtthebike wrote:

If Lego Road Safety and Planning understand the problem, why doesn't the government, local planners, MPs, councillors etc etc?

Electric cars aren't going to change anything, except possibly to make driving more popular, because "hey, I'm not polluting am I" so people will feel more comfortable driving.  They are a dead end being promoted by ignorant people and those pretending to be green.  It's bad enough when you can hear a car revving up behind you, imagine when they are silent.

I agree EVs are not the solution. An EV takes up the same space as an ICE and both have the capacity to injure and kill, and EVs still pollute, locally and remotely.  

What's so disappointing about the move to EVs is the wasted opportunity to do something different. Every car advert these days, including those for EVs, seems to be selling SUVs. These urban tanks, often ferrying one person's arse around, do not belong in a town or city. EVs bring an opportunity to redesign the shape of cars and make them far more suitable for urban travel, particularly on shorter trips. They don't even have to look like cars! One-seater, two-seater, three-seater......small, compact, agile. But no, longer and wider and taller and heavier SUVs is what the people want, apparently. Bloody things should be crushed. And don't get me started on EV charging bases taking up pavement space and charging cables draped across pavements.....grr. 

Sorry abot the rant but I really hate SUVs.   

dobbo996 wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

If Lego Road Safety and Planning understand the problem, why doesn't the government, local planners, MPs, councillors etc etc?

Electric cars aren't going to change anything, except possibly to make driving more popular, because "hey, I'm not polluting am I" so people will feel more comfortable driving.  They are a dead end being promoted by ignorant people and those pretending to be green.  It's bad enough when you can hear a car revving up behind you, imagine when they are silent.

I agree EVs are not the solution. An EV takes up the same space as an ICE and both have the capacity to injure and kill, and EVs still pollute, locally and remotely.  

What's so disappointing about the move to EVs is the wasted opportunity to do something different. Every car advert these days, including those for EVs, seems to be selling SUVs.

No need to apologise for the rant, it's spot on. As you say, the size of these 1-occupant "urban tanks" (an apt description) shows that the owner/PCP victim doesn't care about anything or anyone but themselves, just like the ones driving diesel or petrol equivalents.

The manufacturers have been selling SUVs by the bucketload so the natural progression is to promote e-SUVs, retaining all the inherent problems those vehicles bring bar one (OK, two - fuel purchase and exhaust emissions). They do not want people to use e-bikes, pedal cycles or public transport. They do not give a toss about saving the planet or improving public or individual health. They are only interested in making as much money as possible. And to be fair, the shareholders will say that's exactly what they should be doing.