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Live blog: Sven Nys makes young fans go ‘WOW’, Valverde to make Flanders debut in 2019, Campenaerts planning an April assault on Wiggins’ hour record, Australia’s biggest cycling charity calls for change to mandatory helmet laws +more

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@Mr Blackbird where can I find photos of this study? Asking for a friend.
@Gd29 I was waiting for the classic "why don't we just ban driving completely by reducing the speed limit to 5mph or 0!" argument and here it is. The statistics are very clear on the benefits of reducing the speed limit from 30-20mph. It doesn't remove bad driving but it mitigates the damage. It also makes fuck all difference to journey times. Everything with driving is risk vs reward. Sure, dropping it to 10mph would save a lot more people but it would make travel by car ridiculous and have minimal benefit vs 20mph. The reward wouldn't be worth the cost.
@Gd29 "Speed limits are an ineffective tool when the problem is drivers not driving in an appropriate manner for the conditions and environment. Those drivers weren’t following the speed limit and/or paying sufficient attention anyway!" That is a question, not an assertion. What are the relative numbers of drivers who are eg. "don't care" criminals who may never have taken a test or are happy to take life, how many are "criminally negligent" eg. may have a licence and not intend to break the law regardless, but just aren't fussed about basic safe driving (maybe regularly drive while tired, never slow down when conditions require), how many are just normal humans (who occasionally make unfathomable mistakes)? What are the relative rates of collisions? What are the casualty outcomes? What effect does simply changing a number on a sign have? If any, why? (There's the psychological "anchoring effect", if 70% of people *are* below the limit does that slow down others, do the "don't cares" maybe just overtake dangerously (but would they anyway? ) ) etc. Reduced speed is a mitigation in that it leads to better outcomes in collisions, that's a known I believe. IIRC there's also agreement that it can mean that fewer collisions happen as there's more time to react. "If that is the problem and you don’t deal with it, but you want to keep reducing injuries/fatalities, you have to keep dropping speed limits until you prohibit road use entirely" "If" (plus as noted other safety measures are available)
@Rendel Harris - I think that driver must live near me.
@Gd29 it's good to "point out potential abuse of stats - and for "keeping it concise for the public" no doubt some measure of "lies, damn lies and statistics" applies. But unless you have your own analysis / evidence, this may sound like a "just asking questions!" rhetorical tactic.
@Gd29 exactly what variables / controlled experiments would suffice to convince you, and then how would you believe that would still hold in "real world" situations? We all know there are excellent ways to stop motoring-related KSIs - one being stop humans operating vehicles) but that isn't normally seen as realistic. Then there's another "remove the hazard" approach eg. completely isolate motorists from vulnerable road users (and "footways" alone might not be sufficient, as more people are killed there most years by drivers than eg. by cyclists in total, although that fact doesn't say much ). Though that by itself doesn't address motorists killing themselves / other motorists. Currently the UK - like many countries - is mostly doing a "remove the vulnerable road users" approach, partly by design but mostly indirectly by prioritising convenience for motoring (including journey time, which is seen to involve higher speeds).
Do you really need an AI tool to tell you that 80% of a cyclist's drag is the rider or that getting in a more streamlined position you'll reduce drag etc.? Fabulous for the professional riders who use this site but for the rest of us our money would be better spent on yoga or pilates classes to help you hold a more streamlined position in the first place.
Of course drivers need to be responsible and take care but we are in danger of getting a bit high and mighty when police raise issues like this. Since the clocks went back last weekend, I have been commuting home this week in the dark for the first time this year. I am gobsmacked by the number of cyclists I see who have no lights and no reflective gear, often with no helmets either. It's common sense to take precautions and we've got our head in the sand if we pretend all cyclists are taking appropriate steps to protect themselves and others.
@mdavidford was about to ask them if they thought the law should also been changed to ban the LAs from doing that, so as to save money...
@Rendel Harris sentencing is Monday. 15 yrs minimum (not premeditated) but multiple aggravating factors. 20+ feels appropriate
8 thoughts on “Live blog: Sven Nys makes young fans go ‘WOW’, Valverde to make Flanders debut in 2019, Campenaerts planning an April assault on Wiggins’ hour record, Australia’s biggest cycling charity calls for change to mandatory helmet laws +more”
While the news from the
While the news from the Australian cycling group is welcome, they really haven’t thought this through “They’re now recommending a five-year trial in which adults over 17 are given the choice on off-road paths and bridleways.” Since cycle helmets are ineffective in collisions with motor vehicles, but may be effective in low speed collisions, they want to keep helmets mandatory where they don’t work and let people take them off where they might work.
Their point about preventing the drivers from being quite so useless is well made though. Treat the cause not the symptoms.
burtthebike wrote:
Good point. In addition, what everyone seems to overlook, is the fact that helmets can LIMIT injuries to the brain, head and face. It is not just about fatal accidents.
But of course, there are no statistics available to document the level of damage from accidents where the victim survives while it is easy to document whether a cyclist died or not from an accident!
That is why I use a helmet. Acutally, I have a dent in my skull from a bike accident when I was a teenager, I smashed my head into the end of the handlebars when a car hit my pedal. Surely a helmet would have prevented this and the 5 days in hospital from the concussion.
risoto wrote:
Without wishing to stoke YAHD*, probably not. A helmet may have prevented the dent in the skull, but you would likely still have had the concussion.
*Yet Another Helmet Debate
CygnusX1 wrote:
Was the point of your reply to make you look like a w4nk3r? If so, you’ve nailed it. Top marks pal.
See 59 wrote:
I doubt that the point of his post was to make himself look like a w4nk3r, but I’m pretty certain you have.
Perhaps if we could keep this forum relatively polite and not insult each other at the least provocation, we might all learn something.
See 59 wrote:
Top marks for intelligent, reasoned comment . . . not.
risoto wrote:
And what is your approach whilst walking or in a motorvehicle with reagrds to helmet wearing, just out of curiosity? What about when you’re in London or other big cities, do you wear a stab vest?
Do you advise vulnerable persons when out alone at night or going back to an abusive partner that they wear a protective garment ‘just in case’, or do you just count the number of adult and child deaths/serious injuries caused by head injury whilst walking/on foot and in motorvehicles, child and adult stabbings, rapes and fractured skulls in the home and out of the home and shrug your shoulders and think nothing of wearing protective garments? If so, why?
Why is your perception of risk only focussed on one of the safer activities we participate in, in life? Say, safer than being a pedestrian for instance according to government stats? More child deaths from head injury in England alone whilst in a motorvehicle than the total number of child deaths of all injury types whilst cycling in the whole of the UK. So which group requires helmets, which group actually has a positive impact on that childs life and which doesn’t? But you and others want to stime that group by forcing them (yes children are forced at all levels for the most part) to adopt wearing something that has a direct and indirect negative effect on their health yet they are less at risk than children elsewhere in society for same injury types but you and others wouldn’t batter an eyelid to be concerned about wearing a garment that makes no claims about protective qualities by the manufacturers? Again, why?
I’d like to understand why people will ignore facts on the one hand and make illogical decisions for themselves and their families/friends based on heresay and emotional responses whilst looking away from making the same decisions for factually proven to be more dangerous, as dangerous or having same outcomes in those activities in substantial numbers. 1.3million reported head injuries in the UK, 160,000 hospital admissions every year, number of seriously injured cyclists from all types of injury (the vast majority caused by another group who we want to remove off the roads), circa 3100, you do the maths.
What if it wasn’t? Has he
What if it wasn’t? Has he nailed something else?