Rapide reveals new RL Disc and RC Disc road bikes

Head tube length isn't the key measurement. Stack and reach are.

In size 'S' with a 546 effective top tube, stack and reach are 559 and 380 respectively. That's 1mm higher and 3mm shorter than a Canyon Ultimate CF in Medium. As raced in the TdF. Do you really think you'll notice the difference?

Mind you, the wheelbase looks quite a lot longer, and you would notice that.

I know what the different fits are, and detailed the size differences further up this thread. As for "old school", my old racer from the 70s was more laid back than a full on race bike but it's true there's more choice now and the geometries are more suited to a wider range of people.

I understand your annoyance that with some manufacturers the full on race geometry is more expensive, but that's partly economics and partly realising that not everyone wants such a stretched out position - not I'd out necessarily good for them. That said there are still plenty of race geometry bikes and I think for most people it would be easy to get as low as practical with say something like a Madone in H2. Hey, if push comes to shove you can always put a massive drop set of bars on for even lower positions and that extra retro look!

Less choice, of race geometry, yes maybe. Better choices in general, I'd say yes but clearly YMMV. Little or no choice of race geometry, nah - still bags of it out there.

when your talking performance, you mean H2, compare H1 and H2 geometry. H1 is old school, H2 gains you 20mm.

However to get H1 means a substantial outlay, as for money?? Would you rather race a top end Madone and cry when you crash it, or race something a bit cheaper?

Some people like aggressive bikes, but ever more come with pretty long head tubes which makes it harder to get low and out of the wind.

I was commenting on a chap I saw and his struggle to actually stand up comfortably. He was riding a Norco and it was too tall for him to be able to lock his arms. Maybe he bought the wrong size.

I thought it was a product of the photography against a brick wall, but measuring my bikes suggest that the minimum head tube height I would get on the frames with the same top tube would be 3-400mm too high.

Especially considering the suggestion that these bikes are capable of off road stuff, it would seem a bit strange to limit adjustment in this way; you need a bit of weight on the front to make it grip.

Which bikes are you looking at guys ? Unless i'm mis-reading the geometry (far from unlikely) these seem to have head-tubes not much different from a Trek Domane and about an 20mm longer than a Spesh Tarmac or Trek Madone pro fit... not something that's going to stop anyone getting over the front if they get the right size frame.

Edit : sorry, about the same as a standard Madone and 20-30mm taller than the pro-fit.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I watched someone trying to climb up a hill near my house and as he stood up to pedal, he wobbled about all over the road because his headtube was so big that he couldn't get any weight over the bars.

All these bikes seem to be designed for people who can't bend over.

Why does it seem that all bikes are coming through with ever longer headtubes. Do we really want to go the way of 29er MTBs and start fitting negative rise stems to get the bar height correct? Some people like high bars, some don't.