[JLasTSR]

Do some motorists dislike cyclists because they think our use of the roads is without a legitimate purpose? 

While we see going for a bike ride to enjoy an hour or so riding out as normal behaviour, do they see that as not a legitimate reason for using the road? If someone is dressed in lycra is this antipathy further exacerbated as they are clearly dressed for a sporting endeavour not for going to the shop, place of work, pub, friend’s house? 

If cyclists were perceived as being on essential or unavoidable journeys would it change the perception?

I am not sure it would entirely but I do think there is a feeling among some motorists that cyclists lack legitimacy hence the repeated calls for Tax and Registration and Insurance. Then Cyclists would have to obey the rules of the road wouldn’t they? I mean no car driver has ever sped, jumped a light, have they? People that behave less than well exist in every class of road user. 

I do think the advent of 20mph limits for cars will see cyclists eventually having to observe the 20mph limit as well. When 20mph roads were uncommon it did not matter but as they become more common I think it is inevitable. How they bring it in I don’t know, speedometers on a bike fitted from new would have to happen but what about people like me riding bicycles built in the 1970’s I do have a phone but I don’t always have it with me or turned onto a bike computer app especially if I am miles from home it is then probably on google maps so I don’t get lost.

 

 

Topic

[chrisonabike]

Envee NV wrote:

Envee NV wrote:

I can only presume that those who do close passes do it on purpose and it is to “pay back” us cyclists. They were most likely shouted at for one reason or another by a cyclist and since they know we do not like being passed that close at speed, this is how they pay us back.

Some clearly know it’s not pleasant – eg. they’re gunning the engine or blasting the horn as they accelerate past. Some are probably utterly ignorant because *it feels safe to them* passing things in their vehicle… you really do have a different perspective from behind the windshield.

[chrisonabike]

Envee NV wrote:

Envee NV wrote:

Sometimes i wish the government would tax and license us. There would be ZERO reasons to let any car pass us at all. They would have to wait till they can find a spot to pass us with the required 1.5 meter space. Good luck with that in the UK where the car minded planning has made sure that on most roads nothing but one car can drive at any one time.

Let the government pass insurance, tax and licensing laws. By all means.

Wouldn’t change anything.

Cyclists are *in the way*.

We would still be *others* because a) there will only be a tiny fraction of people cycling as opposed to driving on busy roads or where speeds are high (just doesn’t feel safe or pleasant to most people) b) cyclists just behave differently from drivers eg. can filter, accelerate differently, have lower speeds etc.

Because of the perceived pressure for drivers to go at the minimum speed limits failing to wait until you can pass safely is not uncommon *.

As to “on most roads nothing but one car can drive at any one time” it is and isn’t planning. In fact a lot of roads – certainly most distributors in Edinburgh – are very wide. (In part i think bus companies are major lobbyists for certain minimums). However due to the general view that parking is allowed by default ** means all that space is lost under parked vehicles (even if “justing” – just into the shops / delivering for 2 minutes…)

* In Edinburgh I’d say that a substantial majority of drivers do pass considerately – of course it’s those that don’t which are very salient!

** Also part because of our confusion of roles for streets / multifunction approach eg. roads are for through traffic AND destinations/”places ”

[bensynnock]

When they pull out from side
When they pull out from side roads like that I guess it’s because they’re turning right and don’t want to wait for both lanes to be clear at the same time, so they block off the left hand lane. It happens very very often, and it seems a lot of people think it’s the right way to drive. You’ll even see people just stopping on a free moving road to allow people to do this in front of them. It bothers motorists less than it does cyclists because they do it themselves and they haven’t just put in a good effort to get up to speed which they now have to do again.

It’s just poor driving. The rule is simple, give way when required, go when not.

[Anonymous]

I can only presume that those
I can only presume that those who do close passes do it on purpose and it is to “pay back” us cyclists. They were most likely shouted at for one reason or another by a cyclist and since they know we do not like being passed that close at speed, this is how they pay us back.

When in reality all this does is make us angry and shout back at them since we always catch them at the next light.

Road tax was abolished in 1937 and wikipedia has it wrong, as they list it as 1932. But this does not stop ignorant people from shouting that at us. My answer is usually : “Neither do you.”

Sometimes i wish the government would tax and license us. There would be ZERO reasons to let any car pass us at all. They would have to wait till they can find a spot to pass us with the required 1.5 meter space. Good luck with that in the UK where the car minded planning has made sure that on most roads nothing but one car can drive at any one time.

Let the government pass insurance, tax and licensing laws. By all means.

[Steve K]

JLasTSR wrote:

I know what you mean but all of those are a drive to then do something. A Sunday afternoon drive round the lanes does happen quite a lot but the people that do it are often derided. Quite a lot of cyclists myself included go cycling for the sake of cycling not to go to a destination but to train for an event or just to go for a bike ride. 

So driving to the gym to then sit on a static bike to get exercise is a “utiliratian purpose” but riding a bike to get exercise isn’t?

[Anonymous]

Car brain at work there…
Car brain at work there…

[chrisonabike]

Difficult to tease apart

Difficult to tease apart though – people do drive out to a destination “to get some air” / “take a break”, where I might just go for a cycle.  Similar reason I’d say – definitely so if it’s “drive out to take a walk”.  They drive to the potter, I just potter all the way!

A common question is “but what about the social dimension – we drive to a cafe (I drive someone else)”.  (Driving as performing a service / fulfiling social obligations).  Depending on distance and persons that can certainly be more convenient by car, but a) we could certainly fix it so it’s easier for people to cycle together to places (safe to cycle with your children) and b) for cycling we’ve somehow got the convention that it (uniquely) cannot be a social transport mode unlike walking (well, narrow footways are a thing…), driving, taking the bus…

[JLasTSR]

I know what you mean but all

I know what you mean but all of those are a drive to then do something. A Sunday afternoon drive round the lanes does happen quite a lot but the people that do it are often derided. Quite a lot of cyclists myself included go cycling for the sake of cycling not to go to a destination but to train for an event or just to go for a bike ride. 

[mdavidford]

…and a wheel round their

…and a wheel round their neck.

[wycombewheeler]

JLasTSR wrote:

Three cyclists were travelling abreast up a motoring cul de sac which had another road the otherwise of some bollards that you could cycle through to access that road. 

There was a dustcart parked in the middle of the road while the chaps fetched bins and fed the back of it. 

The three cyclists were talking with each other. The two on the outsides split to go round the truck. Their friend in the middle never looked forward he did not deviate nor slow down but sailed straight into the back of the truck. Everyone looked aghast. 

He jumps up looks at his bike hurls it at the ground in fury and then proceeds to berate the driver and the entire dustcart crew for being in the way, blaming them wholly and squarely. The chaps on the receiving end looked at one another and tried to stop laughing. Is that an entitled cyclist, I think perhaps it is. 

 

cartoons would tell me the crashed cyclist would end up in the back of the dustcart following this collision and emerge with a banana skin on his head.

[wycombewheeler]

every motor journey ever is

every motor journey ever is for utilitarian purposes. No one is ever driving for a leisure activity, such as going to the beach, walk in the country, shopping etc etc.

[S.E.]

Obviously a mix of group

Obviously a mix of group think/feel, carelessness, inattention, and risks of the traffic… on both sides, drivers and bikers!

I watched 3 trucks almost drive over cyclists in less than a week, all drivers were faulty (and none of the bikers were in lycra!) One of them a large hazmat, honked repeatedly at the cyclist, the driver probably unaware that he had made a wrong 90° turn in this intersection (the traffic light for the bikes was green). The worst part is that it encouraged a bus driver on the opposite direction to honk generously at another biker who was riding on the common bike/bus/taxi lane…

Riding on bike lanes I had two cars coming from side roads, slowly stopping in front of me, and staying there, while I was wondering what to do – in this situation a more upright position or a mirror would help to quickly look over the shoulder for incoming traffic while making sure that the faulty car doesn’t move. Why did they behave like that, poor sight/poor brain, or antipathy, I still can’t tell, I couldn’t see any reaction from the drivers, like frozen…

Even weirder, a few weeks ago, from a good distance I see this cyclist walking barefoot, holding his bike, coming from the walking path with his girlfriend (I guess), and both stopping in front of me on the biking lane (the markings are obivous, continuous, you can’t miss them). I slow down to let them walk away, but he didn’t, he just stayed there for no apparent reason, proudly staring at me, while the girl slowly moves away and watch the scene from aside. I had to stop, and shook my head in disbelief… Just like the OP I still struggle to understand what happened there? Maybe he disliked my style – old road bike, not too flashy, unbranded frame, almost vintage in fact, and I haven’t been wearing lycra for years! but maybe still a bit “cocky” compared to his style? Much younger than me, barefoot but with what looked like a city/MTB, I certainly don’t know him. More cyclists were coming behind me (real lycra and racing bikes this time) they also had to stop, so he finally walked away, with an icy “sorry”… Crazy people people out there, although neither him nor the girl looked like real dropouts, more expensive bikes than mine probably.

In addition to the inherent risks of the road and the city, I get the impression that some people are trying to make things worse, create divisions, sow discord. It’s like they have an agenda, so we have to be very careful not to fall into that trap and overreact!

[JLasTSR]

As a 57 year old with a

As a 57 year old with a replacement hip due on July 7th I am working on the fact that my average age will actually go down this year! Feeling old this past 6 months since a collision speeded the hip and concussed me quite badly. Strangely I still struggle to focus on things I should focus on.

I do remember one close pass when I was 13 a Metal Box lorry passed me in Gay Bowers so close it really scared me, and on another occasion when I was 16 in Great Waltham I I was left hooked so badly I had to turn left with the car and eventually came off because the kerb got too high and the space too narrow but by then I was just about behind the car.  

[JLasTSR]

It is still seen as an

It is still seen as an indulgence that risks their lives for a very limited thrill which is often bordering on reckless, and they regularly ignore speed limits. Apart from that they are fine. I have enjoyed a few miles on the back of a friend’s Kawasaki many years ago.  

[JLasTSR]

It was probably why nobody
It was probably why nobody yelled watch out to him. Everybody assumed he could not fail to see it. It was like a slapstick comedy. You could see it happening but your brain refused to believe what your eyes were seeing.
He was so angry with the dustcart and all the chaps working there. His front tyre went bang in a quite alarming way when it burst so that added to it.

[Author]

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