Ribble R872 105SE vs Planet X ProCarbon SRAM Rival?

Johnny, it's not that I begrudge any retailer making a fair profit or paying the administration fee but I also want to make sure I get the best bang for my buck. The issue really is a lack of transparency and the description of the admin fee. At first I believed it to be simple profiteering from the retailers and my earlier posts reflect that but the reality is it's a payment to cover the extra cost the retailer incurs due to commission paid to the cycle to work scheme. It took me a little time to fully understand that, in part due to the vagueness of some of the retailers in describing it. If that cost is as much as £100 is really only known to the retailers. If a retailer decides that they can either reduce or not charge this admin fee to make it more likely I purchase from them then fair enough but that £100 is a factor in considering value for money. After all, as a relatively new returning cyclist there is lots of other equipment and ongoing costs that could be covered with that money.

Looking at the bike2work scheme, my purchasing price for the bike at the end of the scheme is 7% of the voucher price. I know there is quite some variance on each of the schemes and on some they barely work out different than an interest free loan so if you are reading this and thinking of using a cycle to work scheme then you'd best thoroughly check out the t&c's. In my case however there are considerable savings over buying on interest free or cash.

On the subject of retailers not making a profit let's take the CAAD12 deal for example. There are a few reasons, hidden from us consumers as to why CAAD12's are so heavily discounted but I'd suspect Cannondale have produced too many and are now offering good prices to retailers to clear out ready for 2018. That probably means retailers are buying these at a reduced cost in bulk and still making some profit selling them at £999.95. Since there is competition at this price one of them may forego the admin fee to secure a sale if they are still going to make a profit. If so why shouldn't I snap one up at a bargain price? If not then so be it. I just have to take that admin fee into consideration.

As far as not riding it to work goes, that is not an issue, or even a tax dodge anymore. I have double checked this with my employer and the scheme. The stated purpose of these schemes is to encourage healthier lifestyles and they don't give a hoot if you ride to work or not, simply exercising more, and costing the NHS less, is the goal. Most of these schemes were created when it was a requirement to ride them to work and have subsequently kept the names. When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense to encourage everyone to ride more and offer the scheme to everyone. My job involves a lot of driving so encouraging me to be less sedentary in my own time probably has similar benefits to those that commute on bike.

Wheelbase got back to me last night. They also charge the £100 commission on a CAAD12 at £999. They did openly say that the £100 is the commission that bike 2 work charge them so it appears that none of the retailers are profiteering from the scheme just the the scheme operator. Still with 3 retailers offering the CAAD12 at the same price one of them may be open to granting a further discount or doing a deal if I decide to go with it.

I emailed my nearest Cannondale LBS today being completely straight up with them about it. They have been very helpful in the past and have serviced my Spesh MTB so we'll see.  I may pop in tomorrow since I am off work for a few days. I completely get your point, peted76 about the LBS. There are certain things I just cannot do for myself or have the time/tools for currently.  Especially anything to do with truing wheels or hydraulic disc brakes. If they could match the £999 price on the bike2work scheme and I saw and liked the CAAD12 I'd much prefer to buy it from them, as long as they made some profit from it. I'd even pay a little more to be safe in the knowledge I had my LBS on side in case of any issues. In terms of faff, I can wait until Sep 9th when my company reopens the scheme (for some reason they only run it sporadically) to see what the price does on the Cannondale but I'd like to be decided and ready to go asap.

I too got the email from Ribble for a Tiagra ProEvo at £699.  Ribble seem to do this sort of thing. They did a similar deal last year by the look of it and even cheaper. I guess the weaker pound is hurting them this year. I have looked at the ProEvo before and it gets really mixed bag reviews. It's not for me but it's certainly a competitive deal at that price point.

My LBS got back to me this morning, They cannot get the CAAD12 105 in what I believe my size will be ( a 54) but they can get a 105 disc at the very attractive price of £1200. The disc version is 570g heavier and opens up a whole new topic of conversation. I can see that discs may be an advantage for leaving braking until later while descending and give far more predictable braking in the wet but it's more expensive wheels to upgrade, more in servicing costs as I cannot service them myself, and probably marginally slower times for  the type of riding I am doing at the moment. They have a 56 and 54 frame in stock so I am going to pop down and take a look and have a chat.

Visited my LBS and was very impressed by what they could offer:

• A CAAD 105 disc all in at £1200 including the admin fee. I really like the Cannondale in the flesh and the Geometry is not that upsetting at all. It's a great deal and my LBS would be willing to get the bike in for £200 deposit and keep hold of it till the voucher comes through. They'd even be willing to let me buy it outright and refund the £1000 back on to my card while the voucher goes through so I could have it right away. It's very tempting.
• Since they could not get hold of the 105 rim brake version I asked if they could get the Ultegra version. They can do the same deal as above at £1450. It is a bit more than I was looking at but it is an insanely nice and light bike and a really good deal.

Both bikes still come with the Aksium Wheelset so there is a very obvious upgrade path should I want to at a later date.

Edit: The disc comes with RD2.0 rims and formula hubs.

So I find myself pretty convinced by the Cannondale's now considering I'll be able to get them from my LBS and have the support and lack of worry compared with an a direct sales internet company or a specialist manufacturer based hundreds of miles away. In some ways this is a shame as I'd rather be supporting a British manufacturer but with the sort of prices available on the Cannondale they are just not as competitive. I just need to take a look at the finances a bit now and see which one I go for.

Thanks for all your help and contributions in helping me get this far! It's been a great help.

These are the 2016 weights on a 56cm frame,  I have seen 2017 bikes quoted at slightly lighter weights but not always with the frame sizes given:

CAAD12 BLACK INC. - 14.8lb (6.71kg)
CAAD12 DISC Dura Ace - 16.80lb (7.64kg)
CAAD12 RED -15.84lb (7.2kg)
CAAD12 DISC Ultegra 3 - 18.34lb (8.34kg)
CAAD12 Ultegra 3 - 16.5lb (7.5kg)
CAAD12 DISC 105 5 - 18.96lb (8.62kg)
CAAD12 105 5 - 17.71lb (8.05kg)
 

This guy stripped  down his 2016 CAAD12 105and had himself a fun afternoon:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137189

Obviously it will depend on what size frame you go for but between 8.0 and 8.1kg seems to be about right.

I know I was a little obsessed by weight but that is only one factor to the bikes efficiency and performance. It is just the most easily quotable one and easy to understand but it only follows that a lighter bike will go faster if all the other variables are the same.  As other posters have mentioned, the important thing is the ride of the bike and a lot of that originates from the frame design, materials and construction. I found that one of the hardest things to compare and research but a universal constant was nobody criticized the Cannondales ride, neither in reviews or here on the forum.

In regard to your B'twin weight difference that is in large part to the superior groupset and wheels on that bike. Where the Cannondale saves weight is the different alloy used and the design process that enables them to make a lighter frame and probably a better ride.  I am not knocking the B'twin but it does not have quite that level of frame design however  you do get some really good componentry to compensate for it.

I also briefly looked at the Merlin Fuse, It's a very similar proposition to the Dolan L'etape. I think I discounted the Merlin on the basis of reviews saying it was a little bit dull. They are now putting a Fulcrum wheelset on it which probably makes it feel different to the last review.

Kieron, I think I've read that Safety equipment is VAT exempt but when they put it into the cyclescheme they then charge VAT on it. You still get it cheaper than you would but the 32%(assuming you're not a high rate tax payer) you'd save due to not paying the Tax and NI on the safety kit is partially negated by the 20% VAT you now end up paying, which really only gives you around a 12% discount on the safety kit and you may be able to save more than this just by shopping around. 

That's no problem at all Kieron,

I have got the provisional go ahead from my wife to spend a bit more than I first allowed, albeit with a few conditions attached, so I am pretty certain I will go for the CAAD12 Ultegra rim brake version provided the wife conditions are met but if not then definitely the CAAD105 disc from my LBS. They were surprisingly competitive on price and it is very reassuring to have their support in case of any difficulties. 

My LBS was pushing the disc versions due to the extra stopping power when descending and the increased predictability and that the weight difference(between discs and rims) could always be lost by me.  All very true points but if I went for the 105 disc I think I'd be looking at a wheelset upgrade shortly afterwards. The Maddux RS2.0 wheelset that comes with them seems to be; rather portly and not liked on forum posts etc. If it follows the rest of Cannondales ethos for the range the wheelset will be the most basic part. Looking at upgrades a set of MASON x HUNT 4Season Disc would be the logical upgrade but that's another £369 on top. That would give me a roughly 8.1-8.2kg disc brake equipped steed but with some small compromises in compliance and finishing kit (alloy rather than carbon seat post, a supposedly less compliant front fork due to the differing design and a different saddle). That's still a reasonably light bike if I decided I wanted discs.

That being said my local area is not exactly mountainous and most descents are relatively short and straight so I don't think I'll get all the benefits that I might from the discs although the ability to stop quicker in an emergency is always going to be attractive. The CAAD12 Ultegra is a much lighter machine at under 7.5kg and that will equate to a faster machine on climbs and accelerating, so overall a faster machine. I can get the weight even lower with a wheel upgrade. The Aksium elite Wheelset is around 1785g so an upgrade to a set of HUNT Race Aero V2's for £369 at 1435g gets it even lighter and adds a wheelset on that nearly every review says made a large difference. Add another £100 for an Ultegra Cassette and some nice rubber and I then have a nice set of race wheels and keep the Aksiums for training. It's certainly not an upgrade that needs to be made at all but it's a clear upgrade path should I want to at a later date and my overall level of fitness warrants it.

I have a few days to mull it over but I am leaning toward the CAAD12 Ultegra, it is £350 more than I was looking to spend but it's a much better machine and I'd have the support of my LBS.

Put £200 deposit on the CAAD12 Ultegra at my LBS today. It was more than I planned to spend but it made a lot of sense in the long run. If I'd have bought a 105 CAAD 12, either in discs or rim brake versions I'd have been hankering after new wheels almost straight away and knowing myself I'd have bought them within 6 months of getting the bike. I'd have ended up spending roughly similar amounts anyway and then left with a bike which would be much harder to upgrade cost effectively. This way I get a machine that should not really need an upgrade, but has a very obvious upgrade path in the wheels later should I need to. If I do the wheel upgrade(and I need to lose around 10lb just to satisfy the maximum rider weight ratings on the Hunt wheels) that would leave me with an exceptionally light bike and probably more of a chasis than the engine justifies! The only other upgrade I think I may need to consider is changing the spidering to a 50/34 for some rides. It comes with an 11/28 cassette but I believe this cannot be changed without changing the rear mech to a long caged Ultegra. I think the stock setup will be fine for my local rides but I may need more options if I start entering sportives further afield.