road.cc live blog: How to watch the Cyclo-cross Worlds, 12 riders test positive at one race, Should drivers with points on their licence be required to have black box car insurance? + more
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Fri, Feb 02, 2018 09:00
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Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn’t especially like cake.
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Latest Comments
ktache 54 minutes ago
Chris King are fairly serviceable. And the warranty does indeed require it. I enjoy the xtr plug and forget on two of the bikes. Until they die, and I just fit another. Chris's headsets are worth it, superb seals. It's such a mucky area, and I haven't had adjustable cup and cone BBs. on a bike since my Peugeot racers in the 80s, I was relieved when starting my mountain bike adventures in the 90"s that the fit and forget square taper BBs just worked. The seals on the hubs were awful back then. Singletrack FGF featured this, https://burgtec.co.uk/product-category/hardware/shimano-crank-bolt/, I'm wondering if it will replace my seemingly made of butter bolt on the xtr 960 cranks, almost impossible to find back in the day.
ktache 1 hour ago
If I had purchased my special products division 650 back in '96, rather than obtaining it under a warranty replacement, I would apparently have received a signed picture of the fine Nottingham artisan that welded her. The 750 of that year won Barry Clarke another British xc cup, as I recall.
ktache 1 hour ago
Yay! https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/26466698.speed-camera-catching-drivers-25mph-oxfordshire/
tomlew 3 hours ago
The fall of Raleigh happened long before this week. Just because somebody bought the name does not mean they were the same bikes. And if you care about the name so much, noone says it won't be purchased by another inverstor as Accell Group is liquidated!
tomlew 3 hours ago
@Destroyer666 I totally see your point. The good news is there are indeed BBs which use industry-standard bearings. Take Neco, for example - they offer exactly what you want. Maybe the bearings in the set are not perfect, but you can replace them with SKFs later.
Rendel Harris 4 hours ago
@chrisonabike I was just reading that myself, it seems a bizarre kneejerk reaction before poor Finlay's cause of death has even been fully investigated. What does Mr.Hansen think has been going on, have the manufacturers had the means to make safer, more robust helmets that are just as light and well ventilated but haven't bothered releasing them? Or does he want the peleton racing in motorcycle helmets, because that's the only way there's going to be a chance of meaningful protection in 100 kmh crashes?
chrisonabike 4 hours ago
I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work: AFAICS anti-social consequences are inherent in the business model. Models which seem to work better: advertising (Santander cycles), using bikes to make using another service which is more profitable (or less unprofitable) easier (Dutch OV Fiets). After that it's "local authority subsidises it" and then you're down to "flogging customer data"...
Destroyer666 4 hours ago
Back in the day square taper bb's rolled on bearings that were considerably larger than inside these Maxhit ones. The ball bearings in these fully serviceable models cost a couple of euros. Don't get me wrong, they had their issues, like poor sealing. But those days, servicing bearings was the norm. The current state seems to be something of an attempt at non-serviceability, where efforts made at making products that you DO NOT have to service are accompanied with products that you CANNOT service. And those two things are mixed in different ways. For example with this Maxhit bearing you pay a crazy amount of money for supposed durability - that you are nonetheless expected to service once a year. And once these bearings wear enough, there is no way to service them anymore - no cups, cones, ball bearings to replace, unlike with the old bb's (sure, it was not THAT easy even with them to e.g. find just cups in bike shop). I guess my point is that while I applaud e.g. Enduro for making "bike specific" bearings, I nonetheless long for products that are just easy to service - that is the key to durability. And that does not have to mean it costs a lot. To prove my point: There is absolutely no reason why Shimano could not manufacture it's ubiquitous 20eur BB-MT501 with easily replaceable industrial standard 6805 bearings (where SKF quality bearings cost about 20eur), for the same cost they manufacture the BB in it's current form. They just chose not to. And I would choose that over crazy expensive bb's with marketing schpiel and small print regarding warranty any day.
chrisonabike 4 hours ago
He's wildly over the top / backwards about what is a risk to the hard-pressed motorist and local places: those are "other motorists" and "mass motoring" respectively. He's almost right though in that many places - even in the UK - are gradually realising that a great way to save themselves money, improve their places and aid their chances of hitting targets on health, obesity, climate etc. is indeed to slow down motorists, restrict parking and deter (not prevent...) much *private motor* travel.
chrisonabike 4 hours ago
RIP. According to the president of the Cyclistes Professionnels Associes the first thing they need to look at is ... helmets? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/articles/czxqqlpnx98o Of course this could make perfect sense for a professional sport, perhaps standards haven't kept pace etc. It's certainly a rarefied extremely fast and hazard-rich environment, compared with my experience of normally <20mph utility-and-leisure cycling. But since the main factor seems to have been an uninvolved vehicle on the course this does sound like a convergence with the standard "cycling safety" narrative? ("Can't fix anything else, so what we *can* do is...")
25 thoughts on “road.cc live blog: How to watch the Cyclo-cross Worlds, 12 riders test positive at one race, Should drivers with points on their licence be required to have black box car insurance? + more”
I doubt there would be enough
I doubt there would be enough black boxes for all drivers with points, let alone engineers to fit them. Making them mandatory for any driving offence not covered by a fixed penalty notice would appear entirely reasonable though.
Grahamd wrote:
Nothing to fit, no engineers needed. One of the UK’s largest insurers, Aviva, do this through a phone app.
Quote:
Yes.
I think a better idea to the
I think a better idea to the insurance thing would be something that goes on your numberplate outlining the type of offence, eg as symbol to show you’ve been caught speeding, one for texting while driving, one for drink driving. the shame would probably be enough to stop a number of people, especially those with personalised plates, wouldnt want that ruined with something that shows you’ve been caught drinking and speeding, it’d help other motorists and the police identify who to look out for too.
RobD wrote:
You would get some people who’d make that a collectable thing, and want to get the whole set
RobD wrote:
There speaks the voice of someone who has a car for each member of the household.
For the rest of us who have several people using the one vehicle then that would not work
Given that the current system
Given that the current system clearly isn’t working, we need to look at alternatives, and this one seems quite promising. Some drivers might try using the big brother argument and privacy issues, and there is some traction in those, but I think my life and the lives of my loved ones is more important.
Until we have 100% driverless cars, human error by drivers will continue to kill thousands a year, and maim tens of thousands more. If it was any other field of human activity, it would be banned until the problems had been solved, but because we are a car-centric society, our politians are too weak to do this.
I’d suggest that this actually doesn’t go far enough, and all new cars should be fitted with the black box.
burtthebike wrote:
Be careful what you wish for, there’s plenty of reasonably founded speculation that the autonomous vehicle lobby will seek for segregated lanes, stealing valuable and ever-dwindling street space from human powered transport. And unlike us after some decent cycle lanes worth a damn, they’ve got existing funds and the elusive promise of £b for the economy to sway councils’ decisions and get protective legislation in place.
ROOTminus1 wrote:
“… there’s plenty of reasonably founded speculation that the autonomous vehicle lobby will seek for segregated lanes…”
No there isn’t. Driverless vehicles will need less space because they will be following the lane, not weaving around like humans do, so they’ll need less space.
But please feel free to continue your scaremongering.
Telematics is interesting in
Telematics is interesting in how they incentivise good driver behaviour. A mate’s son has just passed his test, he gets extra mileage added to his allowance on a monthly basis if he scores well on speeding. Sounds great but then there’s the clause where they’ll cancel his insurance if he drives 30mph over the speed limit. Not sure if that’s a sliding scale at lower speeds but what sort of message does that send?
kil0ran wrote:
It sends the message not to speed.
rct wrote:
It sends the message not to speed.— kil0ran
It sends the message that driving 29mph over the speed limit is OK because all it means is he’ll lose mileage bonuses that he doesn’t currently need. That’s how my mate’s kid has interpreted it. Now if there was a market where he could sell earned miles that might work…
The only thing these black
The only thing these black boxes do is to control the top speed of drivers in known speed limit areas. If the speed limt has been changed temporarily (roadworks for example) it is not registered.
Also, it does not stop the ever increasing “I’ll ignore that red light because I won’t be caught” attitude!
So I don’t see how it will improve safety other than control the top speed of those who do speed and get caught. All other aspects of bad driving (aggression, middle lane hogging, jumping red lights, driving too close, parking on pavements etc etc) will simply continue to happen and get worse.
The solution is more cameras and / or more police on the roads
Marky Legs wrote:
Don’t they also use an accelerometer to measure heavy acceleration, braking, and cornering?
Perhaps they don’t solve every problem but a partial solution to any problem is usually better than no solution.
portec wrote:
I thought black boxes in cars just measured G forces. The phone apps use GPS tracking as well.
What if one circumvents this
What if one circumvents this blackbox by using a hire car? They can easily say they forgot to take the box with them when switching vehicles.
Hire companies should also up their standards and run checks on drivers
RoubaixCube wrote:
Many do, but also every check involves a charge from the DVLA and the appointed technology providors the DVLA saw fit to work with. If every customer was checked in full, that would require to pass the cost onto the customer, increasing your car rental costs, and right now the industry is being squeezed by price, so not a straight forward thing.
Technology is also going into cars that would enable a company to montior how the car is being driven, where and at what speed. it isn’t being used for those purposes but the potential is there, but you have GDPR, data protection and human rights regulations screaming out at you. It’s a much bigger topic. We can do all of this and more…..and what? End up like China where freedom & rights are a joke.
Be carefull what you wish for
Be carefull what you wish for. Only a hop skip and a jump to boxes being extended to bikes.
I am all for punishment for bad behaviour but I am also a beleaver in right to privacy.
jimt wrote:
When they fit effective black boxes to every car as a legal requirement I’ll be delighted to fit one on the road bike. By all means have privacy, but if you insist on driving a tonne or so of polluting monstrosity maybe you should have to make that sacrifice?
jimt wrote:
What’s a ‘beleaver’? Is it the opposite of a ‘remainer’ ?
Who are you going to get to
Who are you going to get to pay for the black boxes? Currently they are offered for free by insurance companies because insurance companies believe they will reduce claims or at least provide data that allows the insurer to better price insurance (i.e., insurers are willing to pay for them because they benefit the insurer). Can’t see insurers forking out for blanket installation for good of cyclists/other vulnerable road users. Good luck trying to convince the govt to add them to all vehicles (queue outrage from motorists about added cost of motoring in times of austerity). In August last year the FT reported that “[telematics boxes]can cost as little as £50 to buy now, and less than that to install” so maybe the solution will ultimately be that they get so cheap it stops being an issue. The other problem about blanket installation (before you get to privacy concerns) is that it will make some people economically uninsurable. There’s an argument these people shouldn’t be driving anyway. But tey probably will and they probably will continue to do so, just on an uninsured basis, which may not be a great outcome as they are more likely to have collisions.
surly_by_name wrote:
Many, if not most late model cars (post 2012?) have this installed already. Car makers install it as part of the airbag and crash prevention systems, it stores data for the last 2 minutes. The data from these has been used in a number of court cases here down under to establish the behaviour of the driver immediately prior to the accident. The technology is already there.
Arguably making on board
Arguably making on board camera’s a legal requirement. If you know you are on film it will have an impact on a lot of bad driving. it won’t stop the narsacistic idiots and illegal drivers who just don’t care but it could provide a cultural change
the down side is you need resource to review, laws to support, police to action and something to protect all those genuine mistakes and edge cases……and it is very 1984……so it won’t happen…maybe.
Simmo72 wrote:
Personally, I think this is a great idea, and make a non functioning camera an mot fail. In most cases I suspect evidence would be captured on 3rd party vehicles, rather than the offending vehicle, but that’s ok. I have always thought plod had a bias towards catching speeders as opposed to other traffic offences because it is easy, and conclusive, to read a number from a display, compared for example to arguing that somebody jumped the lights. Cameras would give plod the evidence they need. But as you say, there are too many PC people in the UK who would argue infringement of civil liberties. Presumably meaning spouses could check up on where cheating partners had been while supposedly working late!
1) This reinforces the common
1) This reinforces the common misconception that it is always safe to drive at the speed limit, rather than educating drivers to judge what is safe.
2) Speeding is only one form of dangerous driving, and a black box does nothing to stop tailgating, poor discipline at junctions, blind overtaking, and so on.