Cyclist fights off gang who threatened him with hammer during attempted bikejacking

eburtthebike wrote:

"I brought the spray on Amazon and it is perfectly legal."

Only for use against robbers...

I'm totally on the side of Mr.Kalinowski, naturally; the trouble is it's not necessarily "perfectly legal" is it? As far as I understand it, if you carry anything with the intention of using it as a weapon – whether it be hairspray, a snooker cue, a heavy torch, whatever – you may be guilty of an offence, even if you only mean to use it in self defence if attacked. If one of the scrotes sustained an eye injury or similar from the paint and it was shown that Mr.Kalinowski always carried it for self defence I fear he could get in trouble (not saying he should, just that he could). Interestingly the linked Heil article appears to have been updated and doesn't mention red paint, just "an unidentified red substance" and doesn't contain any reference to him saying he always carries it.

Could he not argue that he isn't intending to use it as a weapon, but merely as a marker to make it easy for the police to identify the criminals?

"I just carry it in case I need to make emergency touch-ups to the bike, your honour."

I was a bit dubious about the cyclist carrying his pet cat around London in his front basket.

...but if that were a large skunk, say?

OTOH there's the danger of escalating the situation - same as "I carry one for defense".  If people start carrying skunks to deter bikejackings will we just see criminals on mopeds start carrying llamas?  What about the innocent public who might get caught in the crossfire?

chrisonabike wrote:

I was a bit dubious about the cyclist carrying his pet cat around London in his front basket.

...but if that were a large skunk, say?

Or a porcupine.  They're practically a walking piece of stinger equipment 

But they have a very short-range.  Plus if using your porcupine to stop motor vehicles "this will hurt me more than it hurts you".

And I'm not sure how believable an "assistance hedgehog" is if you need to explain things to the police? "He's for stress - when he senses me getting nervous he rolls up into a ball and nobody can pet him for comfort"?

If considering spines were you thinking of a manticore?

A fulmar might be a decent option.

Good point - lightweight and aero.

eburtthebike wrote:

Could he not argue that he isn't intending to use it as a weapon, but merely as a marker to make it easy for the police to identify the criminals?

Exactly. I can't see any issue with this. Even the police hand out marker sprays:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-60414452

Yes, it's clearly very small and the person says it was "bought off Amazon 3 years ago" so it's going to be a marker spray. These are not made, intended or capable of causing *injury*, so it cannot be an offensive weapon by definition.

They have been around for years and I have never heard of anybody being prosecuted for carrying or using one.

I'd suggest a can of wd40 or gt85 as it's easier to explain why you have it in your possession. Not as obvious over attackers clothing, but equally effective if you get it in their eyes.
It's so fortunate that these gangs of idiots refuse to wear FF helmets and don balaclavas instead

Wouldn't it be unfortunate if lubricant found its way onto the brake pads of their mopeds?!

ROOTminus1 wrote:

I'd suggest a can of wd40 or gt85 as it's easier to explain why you have it in your possession. Not as obvious over attackers clothing, but equally effective if you get it in their eyes.

How about rebadging pepper spray as WD40?  I sense a commercial opportunity.  What could possibly go wrong?

Why would you have to explain that though? I reckon paint is great, as it makes the crims and their possessions easy to identify and is very difficult to wash off. Spraying stuff in people's eyes strikes me as something that should be avoided if possible. 

john_smith wrote:

Why would you have to explain that though?

Quote:

Prevention of Crime Act 1953, Section 1:
Prohibition of the carrying of offensive weapons without lawful authority or reasonable excuse.

In laymans terms, if you used anything as a weapon, you'd better have a bloody good reason for carrying it.

Using something as a weapon in self-defence doesn't make it an offensive weapon though, which is a weapon designed or used for attack.

Not in the eyes of the law.
The obvious example being; a gun used self defense is still an offensive weapon. Things do get somewhat fuzzier around the subject of improvised weapons, when it comes down to pre-meditation; was it an incidental item to hand at the moment of self defense, or were they carrying for the purpose of self defence? Generally the law tends to be more lenient around this subject unless the initial attacker ends up with grievous or fatal wounding.

Think of how the law would treat someone who responded to being attacked by stabbing the assailant with a screwdriver? Compare someone doing DIY out the front of the house being robbed for their power tools vs a kid hanging out on a council estate park bench, not themselves in a gang but being harassed by one?

ROOTminus1 wrote:

 In laymans terms, if you used anything as a weapon, you'd better have a bloody good reason for carrying it.

It goes even beyond that. Obviously everyone has a reason for carrying their keys, but if you walk through a shady area with yours keys in your fist poking between your fingers, like a punch dagger, that is an offensive weapon. Clearly this every day object is being carried in a way that it is intended to be used as a weapon if required.

However if you are approaching your door and are grabbed and spin and lash out with your keys happening to be in your hand, that is entirely justified self defence/instinctive reaciton.

ROOTminus1 wrote:

In laymans terms, if you used anything as a weapon, you'd better have a bloody good reason for carrying it.

Surely a substantial bike lock can be argued as legitimate to carry on a bike? I feel it's something I might instinctively reach for in self defence if some scrote was coming at me with a hammer.

Or solid metal pump (remember those?)

But if you have the thought of doing so, just remember to practice (discreetly, but continually).  Otherwise you will merely be angering criminals and giving them ideas - and then a weapon to use on you.

chrisonabike wrote:

Or solid metal pump (remember those?)

I think the old campag push on adaptors were specially designed for gouging eyes out!