Bitter Bath burger bar boss bashes bike lane

Most evenings (and I mean, 5.30-6.00, heart of what used to be called 'rush hour') there's an articulated HGV parked where I've indicated, delivering goods to a Tesco Express which is there.

https://goo.gl/maps/Ycjp5NwEn7nxTvUJ7

Not helpful for coming out of or for getting into the junction you can see a matter of metres further along...

Chris Hayes wrote:

Perhaps daytime deliveries should be banned in town centres anyway: they just cause congestion and could easily be done between the hours of 10pm and 6am.  If this were implemented across the country our towns would be cleaner, better for shoppers, pedestrians, and cyclists. 

Whilst this seems a solution there is the problem that deliveries need someone to accept them, even allowing for a sophisticated delivery time slot system it's goimg to increase costs significantly.

Or, from another perspective, it will put the cost back on the activity that causes it, instead of it being externalised onto other passing road users.

I'd be more compassionate if people in Bristol weren't suffering from the poor air quality. It's hardly fair to put a minority of businesses and/or workers ahead of everyone else's health and it's also worth considering all the externalised costs to the NHS. Workers can choose to reskill and get employment elsewhere and businesses can adapt to changes, whereas I can hardly choose which air to breathe.

I agree; I simply think it better to acknowledge that such changes are not always a win-win, lets not be blind to the reality there will be some losers for the greater good.  Lets try to empathise and ameliorate rather than coruscate.

Fair point. I think a lot of cyclists get defensive about all the lip service paid to increasing active travel and the substandard facilities that are then provided if at all. The problem is that there's cyclists dying on the roads and everyone is suffering from the poor air quality and yet there's extremely vocal opponents to any attempt to re-allocate space on the public roads.

Changing nothing rarely comes without a cost.

I completely agree.  I think a lot of change is needed and welcome, but lets not pretend that there won't be some losers along the way; which may well be acceptable and reasonable compared to the losses of stasis. 

Mary Willoughby wrote:

On a broader note, as I’ve seen similar complaints in Bristol where I live, and we cyclists could, just maybe, be a little more compassionate.  I believe the introduction of more cycle lanes will make some current businesses worse off.  Change rarely comes without costs.

In Bristol thousands lost their jobs in the tobacco industry in the 70s & 80s when the dangers of smoking became well known – not just the people working in the tobacco factories, but local shops, suppliers, bus companies etc.  There was a similar impact in many coal producing communities.  Many, probably rightly, believe that there’s a net benefit of such changes, but there were undoubtedly individuals who will have lost their livelihoods.

Whereas it is clear that when changes have to be made consideration has to be given to regeneration - you only have to see the evisceration of northern communities affecting millions as a result of the demolition of the coal and other heavy industries to see that - that is a failure of government, and should not be seen as a reason to put off the necessary. 

I have a huge amount of compassion for people in difficult circumstances, however the bulk of my compassion is reserved for people like Ella Adoo-Kissi-Debrah and her family

Analysis has demonstrated that 10s of thousands of people in this country die annually due to the effects of air pollution and many, many more have their lives blighted with horrific chronic conditions such as COPD. A large proportion of this is attributable to vehicular pollution from petrol, diesel, brake dust and tyre particles.

This is a life reality for many people in that it is happening to them now, and there is little in the way of concrete governmental action to combat the issue. On the flip side (pardon the pun) Mr Burgers' worries for his business in relation to the cycle lane are likely just that  - unfounded worries, combined with refusal to adapt and survive.

I wasn’t in any way suggesting plans should change owing to the objections of Mr. Burger & Co., simply that we understand their perspective and not pretend there aren’t losers in the name of progress. I prefer the “Sorry mate, this needs to be done, but perhaps we can make a few suggestions and help to minimise the impact” approach more than simply shouting “Selfish Plonker”, even if the latter were to be true, – some that will lose are perfectly reasonable people who don’t bleat to the press.

I'm keen to understand the detail behind the generalisation, "I believe the introduction of more cycle lanes will make some current businesses worse off."

But let's not make the leap of illogic that says passing trade is only what travels by car. If a street given over entirely to non-motorised traffic, so that cars drop to nil, that does not mean that a business which hitherto relied on people traveling by car will not thrive just as well when the same numbers - or more - travel by bike.

And yet that is what we hear time and again - bloody cycle lane, where will my customers beach their 4x4 now? Answer, they won't need to, because your customers will be the people on bicycles.

Granted, car wash emporia, motor accessories shops and NCP will suffer. But if your business serves people and not cars, chances are how they get there is largely irrelevant.

And any business which has bemoaned the cost of providing car parking spaces (instead of just socialising the cost by misappropriating the common good) should delight in the much lower cost of providing a greater number of secure cycle parking places instead.

I’m thinking, for example, about the chap who repairs & sells cellos from a shop that’s now got cycle lanes outside on both sides of the road – the shop has been there for as long as I can remember.  I find it difficult to see how it’s going to help his business. 

His shop is on a road where some of the highest pollution levels in the UK have been recorded.  I used to have the displeasure of cycling along it twice a day, if the pollution wasn’t going to get you, one of the buses probably would and it’s the site of my one & only dooring. 

I don’t believe for one moment that the shopkeepers’ issues should stop the cycle lane being implemented, nor should we overlook that some shopkeepers may benefit (in addition to the general public), but the cello shop owner has my sympathy because his shop has ended up being in the wrong place through no fault of his own.  I don’t see what’s wrong in having a balanced view, being compassionate and giving some thought to the losers of change as well as the beneficiaries.

Mary Willoughby wrote:

I’m thinking, for example, about the chap who repairs & sells cellos from a shop that’s now got cycle lanes outside on both sides of the road – the shop has been there for as long as I can remember.  I find it difficult to see how it’s going to help his business. 

His shop is on a road where some of the highest pollution levels in the UK have been recorded.  I used to have the displeasure of cycling along it twice a day, if the pollution wasn’t going to get you, one of the buses probably would and it’s the site of my one & only dooring. 

I don’t believe for one moment that the shopkeepers’ issues should stop the cycle lane being implemented, nor should we overlook that some shopkeepers may benefit (in addition to the general public), but the cello shop owner has my sympathy because his shop has ended up being in the wrong place through no fault of his own.  I don’t see what’s wrong in having a balanced view, being compassionate and giving some thought to the losers of change as well as the beneficiaries.

After last night's events, I think us Bristolians should recognise that the use of violins is not acceptable.

(I was only just the other day saying about the danger of the cycle lane outside of the BRI - hope your dooring wasn't too bad)

Mary Willoughby wrote:

I’m thinking, for example, about the chap who repairs & sells cellos from a shop that’s now got cycle lanes outside on both sides of the road – the shop has been there for as long as I can remember.  I find it difficult to see how it’s going to help his business. 

His shop is on a road where some of the highest pollution levels in the UK have been recorded.  I used to have the displeasure of cycling along it twice a day, if the pollution wasn’t going to get you, one of the buses probably would and it’s the site of my one & only dooring. 

I don’t believe for one moment that the shopkeepers’ issues should stop the cycle lane being implemented, nor should we overlook that some shopkeepers may benefit (in addition to the general public), but the cello shop owner has my sympathy because his shop has ended up being in the wrong place through no fault of his own.  I don’t see what’s wrong in having a balanced view, being compassionate and giving some thought to the losers of change as well as the beneficiaries.

Quite, it's just a well-known fact that the advent of the motor car allowed violins to increase in size. And of course thank goodness for the proliferation of SUVs, without which the double bass would never have been possible.

Mind you I've always been suspicious of the cello. I can't help thinking it's just a big fiddle......

Mary Willoughby wrote:

I’m thinking, for example, about the chap who repairs & sells cellos from a shop that’s now got cycle lanes outside on both sides of the road – the shop has been there for as long as I can remember.  I find it difficult to see how it’s going to help his business. 

His shop is on a road where some of the highest pollution levels in the UK have been recorded.  I used to have the displeasure of cycling along it twice a day, if the pollution wasn’t going to get you, one of the buses probably would and it’s the site of my one & only dooring. 

I don’t believe for one moment that the shopkeepers’ issues should stop the cycle lane being implemented, nor should we overlook that some shopkeepers may benefit (in addition to the general public), but the cello shop owner has my sympathy because his shop has ended up being in the wrong place through no fault of his own.  I don’t see what’s wrong in having a balanced view, being compassionate and giving some thought to the losers of change as well as the beneficiaries.

I think I know the shop and road that you're talking about. Like the burger bar in the story, its already on a busy road with double yellow lines (one shop) or right on a junction between two busy roads with double yellow lines (if its the other one).

There were a handful of parking bays nearby, which have been repurposed into a cycle lane. But they were the sort of parking bays which are always occupied, anyway; the chances of just arriving there with your cello and finding a legal parking space would be vanishingly small.

On one of those shops, what the cycle lane may have done is stopped people parking on double yellows or on the footway right outside the shop, on the approach to a busy set of traffic lights.

If either of those shops felt that they were dependent on their customers visiting by car then they were NEVER in the right location...

(there is a nearby multi storey car park).

Sriracha wrote:

....Granted, car wash emporia, motor accessories shops and NCP will suffer. ....

And of course, motor accessory shops are increasingly frequently found on out of town malls, as are carwash emporia.

As for NCP, if they repurpose some of that real estate to secure bike storage, well....

Adapt and survive.....

Mary Willoughby wrote:

I wasn’t in any way suggesting plans should change owing to the objections of Mr. Burger & Co.,

Glad to hear it, same here

Mary Willoughby wrote:

simply that we understand their perspective and not pretend there aren’t losers in the name of progress.

Still not clear that he needs to be a "loser". Comprehensive cycle infrastructure is typically beneficial for local economies.

Mary Willoughby wrote:

I prefer the “Sorry mate, this needs to be done, but perhaps we can make a few suggestions and help to minimise the impact” approach

Same here. As I said in my earlier post, the lack of this kind of approach (if it were needed, and I doubt that the installation of one cycle line would require this) would be due to failure of [local] govt. Typically the authorities that don't treat such projects in this way are the heel-dragging lead swingers who are fundamentally and ideologically opposed to ensuring that people have a safe and fit for purpose option to adopt active travel.

Mary Willoughby wrote:

more than simply shouting “Selfish Plonker”,

I don't remember shouting that. Or shouting anything for that matter....

Mary Willoughby wrote:

– some that will lose are perfectly reasonable people who don’t bleat to the press.

Is Mr Burgers bleating then? I'd say so too. Being around for 40 years does not mean that he doesn't need to react to change. As a number of people have pointed out, this  (minor) change will hardly affect him on the points he has cited and is likely to increase passing trade. I think we can be forgiven for interpreting his rant in the way we have.

My original comment started "On a broader note, as I’ve seen similar complaints in Bristol where I live, and we cyclists could, just maybe, be a little more compassionate."  I was making a broader point about change and not specifically referring to Mr. Burger but reflecting about businesses who may actually find themselves disadvantaged by new cycle lanes.   

I didn't say you called Mr. Burger a "Selfish Plonker" I simply used the phrase as a comparator for my own approach to dealing with such scenarios.  I'm completely baffled why what I've written leads you to believe I agree with Mr. Burger & Co's views.  Emapthy & compassion are characteristics of understanding not agreement or submission.

I'm still not quite sure why Mr Burger and Mr Cello Repair Shop are unable to relocate their businesses to more car friendly areas of town. Surely there are plenty of empty retail premises with adequate car parking. Why should such business owners expect that their failure to adapt to changing circumstances, in this case customers no longer being allowed to park on / obstruct the pavements and public highway outside their shops, is any different to the commercial consequences should their businesses fail to adapt to the changing needs of their customers?

Well it's more that moving would cause expense and disruption.

I doubt that the Violin shop would need to move as there's an NCP within easy walking distance and I'm sure that musicians are prepared to put in the effort to visit shops that have the necessary expertise and craftmanship. They probably don't rely on people just randomly deciding to learn the violin as they're driving past.

Hold my Cello.

Of course they can relocate, in much the same way that you could move house if, say, a new motorway, quarry or recycling centre was put next to your home.  You would only be adapting to changing circumstances so apparently there's no need for anyone to be sympathetic that you feel forced into moving home by change outside your control. 

All I'm suggesting is that we consider, understand and acknowledge that some folk may be worse off when cycle lanes are installed.  I'm surprised that this seems to be such a heretical proposition, it seems obvious to me.  That doesn't mean cycle lanes shouldn't be implemented, doesn't mean that all businesses will loose and it usually means the majority of people will gain. 

Mary Willoughby wrote:

My original comment started "On a broader note, as I’ve seen similar complaints in Bristol where I live, and we cyclists could, just maybe, be a little more compassionate."  I was making a broader point about change and not specifically referring to Mr. Burger but reflecting about businesses who may actually find themselves disadvantaged by new cycle lanes.   

I didn't say you called Mr. Burger a "Selfish Plonker" I simply used the phrase as a comparator for my own approach to dealing with such scenarios.  I'm completely baffled why what I've written leads you to believe I agree with Mr. Burger & Co's views.  Emapthy & compassion are characteristics of understanding not agreement or submission.

I suppose my compassion and empathy runs thin when folk say "This minor project that is unlikely to impact me and will be beneficial to many in terms of health, wellbeing and quality of life should not go ahead cos I don't want it too"

I'm much more sympathetic to folk who might say "I can see this is necessary but I'm worried. Please help me adapt"

RoubaixCube wrote:

I bet he's also in partnership with services like UberEats and Deliveroo. Business couldnt be better with so many orders due to lockdown and  UberEats/Deliveroo staff coming and going but he still wants something to moan about.

 

And in the TV ad, the Uber guy rides a bike.