Video: Sir Bradley Wiggins on his fifth - and final - Olympics

oceandweller wrote:

Ha, ha, ha. This thread is funnier than Jimmy Carr's tax return. The real joke is that ALL elite level sport is an activity for the unimaginably wealthy. Cycling, yachting, dressage, pole vault, whatever, they all cost real money. Even running. (Yes, even running - a decent pair of running shoes would keep a typical family in Zambia for 3 months.) Take a look at the medal tables from Rio. Where's Nigeria (population about 200 million)? Or even a relatively wealthy & sports-mad developing country like South Africa (population around 60 million, so roughly the same size as the UK)? Reality check boys & girls - a sailing dinghy for £200 is roughly the per capita GDP of Malawi. Does that suggest a reason why Malawi has no Olympic sailors? Even if one can pick up a dinghy for £200, all God's li'l chilluns gotta eat while they're out on Lake Malawi all day practising sailing upwind. Not to mention replacing the sails when the mwera rips them to shreds. So get real. This whole debate reflects the fact that virtually everyone in this country is absurdly wealthy (yes, that includes you, me & everyone who owns a bike - speaking objectively). Your average Malawian would tell you, very politely because they're very polite people, the whole debate is absurd.

Oh dear lord. Relativism. How very 6th form.

Wealth can be relative both between AND within countries.

Cringeworthy schoolboy error 

Christopher TR1 wrote:

Hmm, guess I must be the richest of folks after spending a good many years cruising in yachts.

No, hang on, my 1st yacht cost me 5k (t'other one under 10) and I was living aboard, doing a bit of casual work here & there. I sure wish family life on land was as cheap!

Having said that, yes it can be elitist, but on the other hand there are plenty of organisations offering sailing as an option for "disadvantaged youngsters" (including in Rio), and I'm quite sure it is extremely competitive in any sport once you get to Olympic level.

Now, I wonder how the price of a top-notch Optimist would compare with a decent road/track bike....

Oh my first yacht only cost 5k. Another one 10k. 

Clearly very in touch there mate. Most people in the UK are renting and can't raise that cash for a deposit on their first home.

Yes, we know there are schemes for disadvantaged youths in all manner of things. I started my career working with disadvantaged youths in London - doesn't mean that exceptions are rules, or that our beloved 5 time sailing medallist wasn't born hugely privileged. He was competively sailing at 10 when plenty of kids are kicking around the streets lucky to have spare change for a can of coke. 

Cycling, is also inacessible to many. This isnt a zero sum game of acceptible activities. There is a range here starting with athletics, such as running, which I find very suited to the Olympics, to others like sailing and equestrianism which are basically free medals for aristocrats and a few social climbers, at the other end of the scale. 

Besides - I think what you wrote was a fair bit of bollocks. Big difference between buying a boat to live on and arse around in than having a posh family teach you the ropes young and get you competing. 

You think you're like those families?

unconstituted wrote:

But Ainslie would float around in a boat or something that only the richest folk have access to. 

 

Not the most competitive pool in the world. 

 

Up there with equestrianism. 

 

Wiggins, (and I'm not a huge fan), does have to compete in a very aggressive sport with a lot of guys working their balls off to squeeze a percentage or two for a spot. 

 

(By the way I've sailed a little when younger, dad had a shit wreck of a thing, it can be tough enough in it's own way)

 

I suspect your collection of bikes cost more than the Laser that Ben won an olympic medal in.  All in for a new one it is around £5K and it would hold value better.  You can see one of Ben's in the Falmouth Maritime museum.  The bikes that Wiggo has ridden are often more expensive.

Sailing might not be your thing, but you may not be very well informed (to be fair I am not that well informed about your bike collection ).  I think you may be confusing large expensive yachts with the dinghies that are raced at the Olympics.

The main costs in sailing are just the same as cycling.  Travel and accomodation to compete and train.

Sniffer wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

But Ainslie would float around in a boat or something that only the richest folk have access to. 

 

Not the most competitive pool in the world. 

 

Up there with equestrianism. 

 

Wiggins, (and I'm not a huge fan), does have to compete in a very aggressive sport with a lot of guys working their balls off to squeeze a percentage or two for a spot. 

 

(By the way I've sailed a little when younger, dad had a shit wreck of a thing, it can be tough enough in it's own way)

 

 

I suspect your collection of bikes cost more than the Laser that Ben won an olympic medal in.  All in for a new one it is around £5K and it would hold value better.  You can see one of Ben's in the Falmouth Maritime museum.  The bikes that Wiggo has ridden are often more expensive.

Sailing might not be your thing, but you may not be very well informed (to be fair I am not that well informed about your bike collection ).  I think you may be confusing large expensive yachts with the dinghies that are raced at the Olympics.

The main costs in sailing are just the same as cycling.  Travel and accomodation to compete and train.

 

 

Pull the other one, you're trying to say yachting is as or more accessible than cycling.

No-ones buying it. Even logistically it's pure fantasy.

unconstituted wrote:

 

Pull the other one, you're trying to say yachting is as or more accessible than cycling.

 

 

No-ones buying it. Even logistically it's pure fantasy.

He pointed out that what Ainslie sails is a dinghy, a one man dinghy at that.  If you want to get into dinghy sailing, go along to the nearest club. Like cycling, they are looking for new recruits. Unlike cycling you can start by crewing on someone else's  dinghy.

Yachting is a bit different, but  not all yachts are the size of Sir Philip Green's. Many people spend more than the price of a second hand yacht on a flash car.

felixcat wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

 

Pull the other one, you're trying to say yachting is as or more accessible than cycling.

 

 

No-ones buying it. Even logistically it's pure fantasy.

 

He pointed that what Ainslie sails is a dinghy, a one man dinghy at that.  If you want to get into dinghy sailing, go along to the nearest club. Like cycling, they are looking for new recruits. Unlike cycling you can start by crewing on someone else's  dinghy.

Yachting is a bit different, but  not all yachts are the size of Sir Philip Green's. Many people spend more than the price of a second hand yacht on a flash car.

 

Hang on while I pop into Halfords and buy a 200 quid dinghy and sail it around the local park.  

The funny thing is, the more people talk about it, the worse the make it sound. Finding a crew, living near a sailing club? 

And the insinuation that there's somehow an advantage over a bicycle because dinghys have crews you can look for a spot in. Jesus Hirsute Christ. What are you saying. 

Everyone knows someone with a bicycle sitting about. How many people have a friend or neigbour with a free spot on a crew.

Be serious guys.

unconstituted wrote:

felixcat wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

 

Pull the other one, you're trying to say yachting is as or more accessible than cycling.

 

 

No-ones buying it. Even logistically it's pure fantasy.

 

He pointed that what Ainslie sails is a dinghy, a one man dinghy at that.  If you want to get into dinghy sailing, go along to the nearest club. Like cycling, they are looking for new recruits. Unlike cycling you can start by crewing on someone else's  dinghy.

Yachting is a bit different, but  not all yachts are the size of Sir Philip Green's. Many people spend more than the price of a second hand yacht on a flash car.

 

 

Hang on while I pop into Halfords and buy a 200 quid dinghy and sail it around the local park.  

The funny thing is, the more people talk about it, the worse the make it sound. Finding a crew, living near a sailing club? 

 

And the insinuation that there's somehow an advantage over a bicycle because dinghys have crews you can look for a spot in. Jesus Hirsute Christ. What are you saying. 

 

Everyone knows someone with a bicycle sitting about. How many people have a friend or neigbour with a free spot on a crew.

 

Be serious guys.

I have put a sailing dinghy on the water for a little more than £200.

There are dinghy sailing clubs all over Britain, on rivers, lakes, reservoirs and the sea. They are friendly enough clubs and I can't imagine why you think they would not welcome new blood to act as moveable ballast and hold the jib sheets. Probably your prejudices.

The old bike in the shed would not get you very far with most cycle clubs. If you don't want to be handicapped or laughed at you will have to spend the cost of a Laser dinghy.

There is a big difference between Boston Sailing Club (which has the character I describe) and the Royal Yacht Squadron. As big as the difference between an Optimist (a 10 foot child's starter dinghy) and and the Royal Yacht Britannia.

All your bluster is an attempt to disguise your ignorance of the subject. Which seems to be profound.

felixcat wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

felixcat wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

 

Pull the other one, you're trying to say yachting is as or more accessible than cycling.

 

 

No-ones buying it. Even logistically it's pure fantasy.

 

He pointed that what Ainslie sails is a dinghy, a one man dinghy at that.  If you want to get into dinghy sailing, go along to the nearest club. Like cycling, they are looking for new recruits. Unlike cycling you can start by crewing on someone else's  dinghy.

Yachting is a bit different, but  not all yachts are the size of Sir Philip Green's. Many people spend more than the price of a second hand yacht on a flash car.

 

 

Hang on while I pop into Halfords and buy a 200 quid dinghy and sail it around the local park.  

The funny thing is, the more people talk about it, the worse the make it sound. Finding a crew, living near a sailing club? 

 

And the insinuation that there's somehow an advantage over a bicycle because dinghys have crews you can look for a spot in. Jesus Hirsute Christ. What are you saying. 

 

Everyone knows someone with a bicycle sitting about. How many people have a friend or neigbour with a free spot on a crew.

 

Be serious guys.

 

I have put a sailing dinghy on the water for a little more than £200.

There are dinghy sailing clubs all over Britain, on rivers, lakes, reservoirs and the sea. They are friendly enough clubs and I can't imagine why you think they would not welcome new blood to act as moveable ballast and hold the jib sheets. Probably your prejudices.

The old bike in the shed would not get you very far with most cycle clubs. If you don't want to be handicapped or laughed at you will have to spend the cost of a Laser dinghy.

There is a big difference between Boston Sailing Club (which has the character I describe) and the Royal Yacht Squadron. As big as the difference between an Optimist (a 10 foot child's starter dinghy) and and the Royal Yacht Britannia.

All your bluster is an attempt to disguise your ignorance of the subject. Which seems to be profound.

Hey guys, want to be in my 200 quid dinghy crew? I'm gonna be a sailing world champion one day. No sail yet, but trust me, it's gonna work out just fine.

Guys. Guys?

unconstituted wrote:

 

Hey guys, want to be in my 200 quid dinghy crew? I'm gonna be a sailing world champion one day. No sail yet, but trust me, it's gonna work out just fine.

 

 

 

Guys. Guys?

More bluster. About as convincing as making a silly joke about someone turning up for the club run on an Apollo "mountain bike" he had dug out of the shed and telling the other riders that he intends to outsprint Cav.

Here is a bit about Ellen MacArthur, who you may have heard of.

Born in July of 1976, MacArthur grew up in a landlocked part of England's north, Derbyshire, in a town called Whatstandwell. The middle child of two schoolteachers, she was four years old when she experienced her first sea voyage, out on a dinghy with her aunt, and she was entranced from that point onward. Over the next several years, MacArthur read anything she could find about sailing and the oceans of the world. By saving her lunch money she managed to buy her own dinghy at the age of 13, which she kept in her bedroom.
Read more: http://www.notablebiographies.com/newsmakers2/2005-La-Pr/MacArthur-Ellen...
 

Hardly a silver spoon.

felixcat wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

 

Hey guys, want to be in my 200 quid dinghy crew? I'm gonna be a sailing world champion one day. No sail yet, but trust me, it's gonna work out just fine.

 

 

 

Guys. Guys?

 

More bluster. About as convincing as making a silly joke about someone turning up for the club run on an Apollo "mountain bike" he had dug out of the shed and telling the other riders that he intends to outsprint Cav.

Here is a bit about Ellen MacArthur, who you may have heard of.

Born in July of 1976, MacArthur grew up in a landlocked part of England's north, Derbyshire, in a town called Whatstandwell. The middle child of two schoolteachers, she was four years old when she experienced her first sea voyage, out on a dinghy with her aunt, and she was entranced from that point onward. Over the next several years, MacArthur read anything she could find about sailing and the oceans of the world. By saving her lunch money she managed to buy her own dinghy at the age of 13, which she kept in her bedroom.
Read more: http://www.notablebiographies.com/newsmakers2/2005-La-Pr/MacArthur-Ellen...
 

Hardly a silver spoon.

A wild exception to the rule appears.

Get the Pokeballs out.

Keep digging. I'll be in the front garden sitting in my dinghy practising for the Olympics. Maybe take out an ad for a crew member to make sea noises.

It's okay for me to take the piss, but you need to get serious.

unconstituted wrote:

 

 

It's okay for me to take the piss, but you need to get serious.

I am content to leave it at that. I think anyone who has bothered to read this far will draw their own conclusions, and with that I will be content.

felixcat wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

 

 

 

It's okay for me to take the piss, but you need to get serious.

 

I am content to leave it at that. I think anyone who has bothered to read this far will draw their own conclusions, and with that I will be content.

No-one's drawing conclusions from this thread. They're drawing conclusions from real life where everyone has access to roads and hardly anyone has a sea out their front door. Cyclists are everywhere, sailors aren't.

Everyone knows why.

I told you to get serious. Why no listen 

unconstituted wrote:

felixcat wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

 

 

 

It's okay for me to take the piss, but you need to get serious.

 

I am content to leave it at that. I think anyone who has bothered to read this far will draw their own conclusions, and with that I will be content.

 

No-one's drawing conclusions from this thread. They're drawing conclusions from real life where everyone has access to roads and hardly anyone has a sea out their front door. Cyclists are everywhere, sailors aren't.

 

Everyone knows why.

 

I told you to get serious. Why no listen 

I actually agree that for most people cycling is more accessible, but sailing can be accessed for a relatively small outlay.

Not surprisingly I am cyclist not a sailor, but my teenage son competes in sailing.  He learnt at a council run outdoor centre for a small outlay.  He joined a sailing club and didn't need a boat at all until he started to compete seriously.  His first boat was at least third hand (a Topper). It did fit in the few hundred pounds category.  He has migrated into a more expensive boat now, but like most sport, travel and accommodation are the biggest costs.

Before you dismiss this as a one off, I know of many examples in this sport.

i know this might not fit into your narrative, but the benefit of interacting on forums is that you can learn things and it is a strength to at least see new nuances in your views.  Maybe reflect more on others views rather than shouting them down will help you to learn.

There is no yachting in the Olympics only dinghy sailing and Ben Ainslie didn't need to worry about crew, he won his silver and four golds in single handers.  His boat at 10 was an Optimist.  They can be bought and raced for your £200 example.

Sniffer wrote:

Ben Ainslie didn't need to worry about crew, he won his silver and four golds in single handers.  His boat at 10 was an Optimist.  They can be bought and raced for your £200 example.

Interesting topic this, and a fine post. OP was really discussing "posh prize" aspect of top-level sport rather than at entry level, I think. Clearly, sailing is fairly accesssible at lower levels, getting more exclusive higher up where there's international travel but few or no fulltime salaries let alone fortunes to be made. 

Posh accents are noticeably thin on the ground in sports like male football, that start out as mass participation, and that reward success, paying fulltime salaries.

Road cycling is more meritocratic than sailing, due to the wider base and higher cash rewards, and road cycling trumps track (Chris Hoy prob wouldn't have ever tried out on a velodrome track if he'd gone to my school) but cycling is nothing next to marathon running, which is waaaay bigger in its participation base internationally, worldwide, every continent.

It's much harder to score a gold in the marathon. No one perrson has won more than 2 marathon golds. Forget these "8  golds" cheap sports nonsense tallies! No country has won more than 4 or 5 marathon golds, in total. It's just in another league for competitiveness. A marathon gold equals 12-24 cycling gongs, easily, and 3 doz sailing medals, for sure.

felixcat wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

 

 

 

It's okay for me to take the piss, but you need to get serious.

 

I am content to leave it at that. I think anyone who has bothered to read this far will draw their own conclusions, and with that I will be content.

Agree. Obviously the episode of Howards Way on which you, Unconstituted, have based all your sailing opinions has left you mentally scarred!

Suggest a nice long solo ride on your best bike.

Christopher TR1 wrote:

felixcat wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

 

 

 

It's okay for me to take the piss, but you need to get serious.

 

I am content to leave it at that. I think anyone who has bothered to read this far will draw their own conclusions, and with that I will be content.

Agree. Obviously the episode of Howards Way on which you, Unconstituted, have based all your sailing opinions has left you mentally scarred!

Suggest a nice long solo ride on your best bike.

Thanks. I'll try not to get run over by all the leisurely working class sailing crews while I'm at it.

You two really are a pair..