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55 comments
I look forward to independence for Yorkshire.
Then we can have the next Grand Depart without having to waste a token day down South
6 predictions for the next 30 months.
1. Mass influx of EU citizens hoping to beat the exit of the UK from the EU in order to establish an ongoing right to live and work here.
2. English border moves from Calais to Dover. Illegal migrants are detained in reception centres on UK soil. The UK solves the migrant problem for many European governments fighting the rise of right wing nationalism. They simply move migrants from their southern to northern borders passing them along until they arrive in southern England or are picked up in the Channel.
3. An English fishing vessel will be sunk or damaged in a confrontation with French or Spanish fishermen in a dispute over access to fishing grounds.
4. Scotland will hold a second referendum having agreed an outline proposal to remain in, or join the EU. The Scottish electorate will get a second chance to vote for independence from the UK, but with a clearer idea of what they are actually choosing between.
5. More jobs will leave the UK than are created and skilled jobs at that. Investment will be lower, GDP will be lower than it is now.
6. An increasing mood of public anger as the long term consequences of Brexit begin to bite and people find that the nebulous reasons they personally voted to leave are not being delivered. It will be difficult to find anyone who will admit having voted Leave and we will all be wondering who actually did it, pointed fingers and acrimony.
Just my non expert crystal ball gazing. No point in debating now, just the same arguments that have been going on for the last 6 months. Please feel free to add yours, Leave or Remain, we can dig this thread up over Christmas 2018 and see who calls things best. In the meantime we still have cycling in common.
Indeed. The term 'expert' is bandied around woefully and is all but meaningless. 'Experts' are called in to support a line, and they'll happily do it for cash. All they have to do is work loosely around a particular field and have an opinion to justify the label.
No-one can predict the future and you'd be daft to trust an expert. We listen to Bloomberg in the mornings, and the amount of errant balls that's predicted is comedy.
Besides, the issue is a simple one. It doesn't matter if the economy did collapse as we were told, (although look how fast that line is changing, everything's actually going to be okay now the same people are saynig), as the poor and disadvantaged are already poor and disadvantaged, and all the promises for riches and glory from any boom wouldn't go to them any way.
Because the game is up. Trickle down doesn't work. In fact, it works the opposite, money trickles up. Inequality grows over time, not decreases. It's a bit like a ponzi scheme in some way.
Doesn't matter if the poor fully understand the reasons behind their lack of social mobility. They live it. What we theorise and talk dismissively about, they live and deal with day to day, generation to generation.
Can talk all the wanky nonsense you want, but it's direly naieve to not think they'll lash out given the chance. And they have, and as a remain voter, I have to say, good on them. Maybe they'll start a shakeup. Things often need to get worse to get better.
As for me, I've found a solution. I can apply for an Irish passport! Dual citizenship. Only realised yesterday. So, I guess I'm alright Jack.
I hope you're right. There is also the horrible possibility that people don't realize that simply poking a eurocrat in the eye and reducing Cameron's tens of millions to fives of millions is not enough.
Meanwhile: fáilte romhat a chara! Make the full leap: there's some good riding here and with the predicted dip in the economy there'll be fewer motorists on the roads.
I hope none of the people claiming Brexit has nothing to do with cycling aren't planning to buy a new bicycle from a US-based company like Trek, Specialized, Cannondale or Surly now that the pound has tanked against the dollar. Or a groupset from Shimano since the same happened against the Japanese Yen. Or a set of wheels from Mavic or Campagnolo once import duties are introduced. Maybe get your orders in now, before the stock already in the shops runs out. But then if a recession is triggered you might not have a job in six months time and would regret not saving every penny.
But that's just what the 'experts' say. Who cares what they think? All their 'knowing stuff' and 'research' didn't help them when trying to show the great British public what will happen. Just because they know huge amounts more about it than other people, they will all definitely be wrong about this. Because Nigel said it would be OK.
You're missing the point of course, that the average Brexit voter may well have understood and appreciated the risks and warnings from experts, and balanced these against factors more personal and relevant to them. Factors just as valid as resulting money market - or stocks and share fluctuations may be to you.
The macro economic considerations, on which the experts gave their 'Remain' recommendations, and the interests of big business and the bankers, are not always aligned to the interests of the average citizen.
Sorry I tried to resist!
Probably, all plotted in their £1 Million 2 up, 2 downs, in Islington, Notting Hill...
I'm fairly sure taking the bike yesterday would have been a bad idea for Boris, let's be sensible. I'm not really sure what these people were trying to achieve, but it doesn't appear to have achieved anything other than making them look a bit stupid. And getting them on the telly I suppose.
As for the rest of it, well there's plenty of ill-informed bull-crap being spouted amongst everyone I know on Faceberk. I don't come to road.cc to read more ill-informed mouthing off about 'brexit'.
Think you'll find Barclays haven't sponsored Boris bikes for several years.The last time I had the misfortune to have to venture into the capital I think the sponsor was Santander. Of course if they read this they'll realise that their sponsorship is a waste of money !
If he thinks he got a rough reception from Londoners, just wait until he visits the new migrant camps in Dover, or the fishing communities that can no longer access EEC waters, or faces the farmers demanding import tariffs because they can no longer compete with subsidised EU producers, or the communities who loose jobs as large employers move their manufacturing and corporate HQs into the safety of their main EU market, or the people who thought they were going to get a slice of that mythical £350M a week. I'd suggest he avoids Gibraltar, that is if he can even get across the border from Spain.
Don't get me wrong, we have voted to leave and the British people are very resilient. If the rest of Europe does fall apart then the UK could once again stand out from the crowd. However people voted Leave for a number of reasons. There will be much bickering over which EU rules we keep and which we abandon. One person's unnecessary red tape is another person's employment rights or consumer rights or health and safety standard or environmental concern. De-regulating the finance industry didn't work out so great the last time around. There will be the trauma and more uncertainty as the Scots have another referendum that could see the breakup of the United Kingdom.
A large part of the Leave argument surrounded the unaccountability of unelected EU officials "telling us what to do". We now have the slight irony of a replacement Conservative party leader and Prime Minister, whom none of us will get to vote for, who will have to take on the tough negotiations of our leaving and at the same time how we continue to trade and interact with the remaining EU, whatever that becomes, in what will most certainly be a hostile atmosphere. I truly hope that Boris gets the job. If it all works out as well as the Leave campaign hope, and they fulfil their promise of "getting our country back" without destroying it in the process, then he deserves the plaudits and a statue next to Winston Chuchill but if it doesn't, then by crickey, everyone recognises him and he will be held accountable. Someone could make a fortune selling rotten eggs to angry mobs.
Aside from everything else, I am personally of the belief that Boris has a little 666 birthmark above his hairline...
Anyhoo- I saw a bloke commuting on a tricycle recumbent this morning: man, but that was FAST!
People were given a vote and voted. Can we move on and talk about bikes again?
that's the best thing I heard all night!
On your bike
To be fair, there are lots of threads on road.cc that are talking solely about bikes - why not go there, rather than to this thread (which, to be fair, any idiot could have guessed would include debate about the recent referendum, given Boris' high profile and the tenuous link to cycling in the article)? Why shouldn't the community of road.cc posters talk about what is clearly an important issue to many of them?
@adamthekiwi
Because it has been done to death. If people want to write excessively long comments demonising people who don't agree with their views, do it on Facebook like the rest of the population.
Here we all share a common love if bikes, so focus on that, rather than people's differences.
Don't talk about the turd in the pool, we've all come here just to swim.
Knock yourselves out. Enjoy your evening.
We should of brexited years ago! So there wouldn't be a white English minority in London there is now. We are on the the road to improve our country. I'm not a Boris fan, but who is? He is a politician after all. I have a new faith in England now and is Boris is part of it then he's welcome.
Agree wholeheartedly with unconstituted above. It really pissed me off to hear my mp Ben Bradshaw calling for Jeremy Corbyn to resign today. What, so we can put in place another centre chasing neo liberal blairite with a proven losing strategy? Corbyn kept his credibility in tact in this campaign - he has a chance of offering something new, or at least helping to build it.
Boris was totally in favour of the EU up until a couple of months ago, making many statements in support. Then he got a sniff of 10 Downing St and did a complete 180 degree turn from pro to anti overnight. That's why he's a traitor. He's a self-serving, unscrupulous, ambitious politician who will do anything to get power.
I passed him on Boxhill on the first Ridelondon. Should have pushed him off the top
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016/05/28/the-great-eu-debate-boris-john...
You perhaps haven't read Boris's long series* of Telegraph articles trashing the EU and its bloated bureaucracy, making fun of its convoluted procedures and laughing at its ludicrous antics.
* He was their Brussels correspondent.
Speculation.
They don't believe it will hurt them just as much as you believe it will.
Try a little understanding instead of resorting to tired tropes, that's all I'm suggesting.
What I find worrying is that many of the reasons people voted to leave are actually to do with the current conservative government and not the EU.
The reason people can't see doctors is that they are being forced to work long hours and are against the new contract being imposed on them. As a result we have lots of EU nationals coming over here to prop up the NHS.
The reason you can't get kids into the local school is that they are underfunded and teachers are leaving because of what is being imposed on them.
The reason you can't buy a house is that they are bought as second homes and seen as an investment. A short supply of houses props up te prices, making developers richer.
The people have been lied to, yet again.
i don't think you understand any of the arguments the way that you have made them. The government were actually offering them fixed/shorter hours and more money. But because they would have to work weekends and reduced overtime they said they didn't want it. That and they claimed that it would make it easier to sell off the NHS. These doctors aren't stupid...
I think in years to come, the genius of BoJo will become clear.
People ATM think he's an unprincipled, self-serving chancer who decided to
bury his country for entirely selfish reasons.
How wrong can you get....
It's obvious to me, that he's decided to shove our economy down the crapper in
order to promote cycling!
In a few years time the entire population will not be able to afford to buy a
car and Londoner's will have to get around on Boris bikes sponsored by
Barclays. (I'm sure they'll still sponsor them once they've decamped to
Frankfurt).
I couldn't really see what was going on in the video. Were they protesting at Boris, or were they hanging around in the hope of breathing the same air as this political celebrity?
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