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  • News
2022 Knapp e-bike 2 person
2022 Knapp e-bike 2 person (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

“E-Bikes are bicycles, not motorbikes”: EU Court rules e-bikes as not capable of causing “damage comparable to motorcycles”; Chris Froome’s new bike with disc brakes; £32k karma for not restoring cycle path; Penny-farthing stunts + more on the live blog

It’s Friday the 13th, let’s hope nothing spooky finds its way to this cycling live blog with all the latest news, Adwitiya will be your host for the day…
  • by Adwitiya Pal
Fri, Oct 13, 2023 09:03
54

SUMMARY

  • Don't be shy, show off your penny-farthing skills
  • "Wait until the pi***ng rain, they’ll be no cyclists…"
  • "Karma is a fine!": Housing developer fined more than £32k for failing to restore cycle path
  • Average Tadej Pogačar moment
  • Stockholm hoping to transform its city centre by banning cars and increasing cycling and walking space
  • Near Miss of the Day 879: Driver makes very close pass on cyclist but only gets warning letter (includes swearing)
  • Chris Froome's new ride... with disc brakes and questionable colourway
  • It's chocolate week from Monday! Here are some health benefits from chocolates for cyclists...
  • School run cycling mum assaulted by driver in front of her children
  • Hackney cyclists to protest following two deaths in borough in recent weeks
  • Are they really dead? Is it really time to start digging the grave for rim brakes?
  • "E-Bikes are bicycles, not motorbikes": EU Court rules e-bikes not capable of causing bodily or material damage comparable to motorcycles, cars or trucks
2022 Knapp e-bike 2 person
2022 Knapp e-bike 2 person (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
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13 October 2023, 09:03

Don't be shy, show off your penny-farthing skills

 
 
 
 
View this post on Instagram
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by Ryan Williams (@rwillyofficial)

13 October 2023, 09:03

"Wait until the pi***ng rain, they’ll be no cyclists…"

“Wait until the pissing rain, they’ll be no cyclists…” pic.twitter.com/4CKyYMyMnq

— Rory McCarron (@CyclingLawLDN) October 12, 2023

13 October 2023, 09:03

"Karma is a fine!": Housing developer fined more than £32k for failing to restore cycle path

Isn’t that how the new Taylor Swift song goes?

Ah I may be wrong about the lyrics, but I can perhaps assume that’s what folks over at St Modwen Homes might be singing in their sleep, as the housing developer has been fined a whopping £32,000 for not putting back a cycle path properly in the village of Norton Fitzwarren, despite repeated requests by Somerset Council over two years.

The developers had been authorised to carry out work in the area in 2021 by the Council which involved digging 20m down and connecting a manhole to the storm drain.

St Modwen pleaded guilty to four offences committed under the New Roads and Street Works Act 1991 at Taunton Magistrates Court and was handed more than £32,000 in fines and costs.

The court heard that St Modwen Homes carried out street works at Great Western Way in Norton Fitzwarren, and failed to reinstate white lines on the carriageway and footpath, along with red tarmac on the cycle path. The company failed to respond to various notifications sent by Somerset Council urging it to complete the reinstatement properly, and so failing to fulfil its duty in the interests of safety.

13 October 2023, 09:03

Average Tadej Pogačar moment

Dudes being dudes, Tadej Pogačar being Tadej Pogačar…

this is the realest tadej has ever been pic.twitter.com/2cKzd2aBtp

— elena (@secondoelle) October 13, 2023

13 October 2023, 09:03

Stockholm hoping to transform its city centre by banning cars and increasing cycling and walking space

The Swedish capital is hoping to make its city centre a safe haven for cyclists and pedestrians as well as reduce pollution and slash emissions with the help of a ban on petrol and diesel cars, with the new rule coming into effect from 31 December 2024.

Traffic councillor and MP Lars Strömgren wrote on Twitter: “In Stockholm, everyone should be able to breathe the air without getting sick.” He added that he envisions a city with “outdoor seating and plenty of space for walking and cycling”.

Stopp för fossilbilar i Stockholm city!

I Stockholm ska alla kunna andas luften utan att bli sjuka. Bullret ska inte tvinga människor att välja bort att vistas på gator och torg. Istället ska det vara en folkfest med uteserveringar och rejält med plats för gång och cykel. pic.twitter.com/cjt85lDUWw

— Lars Strömgren (@larsstromgren) October 10, 2023

The car ban covers 20 blocks in Stockholm’s city centre, including streets in the area within Kungsgatan, Birger Jarlsgatan, Hamngatan and Sveavägen.

Once the ban comes into force at the end of 2024, only electric vehicles (EVs) and low emissions gas vehicles will be allowed to drive in the zone. Plug-in hybrid heavy goods vehicles will also be permitted.

The 180,000-square-metre zone could be extended, pending discussions in early 2025.

It was initially set to be introduced in Gamla Stan – the city’s Old Town – too, but those plans have now been scrapped. Instead, the area will become a largely pedestrianised‘urban environmental zone’, where 130 parking spaces will be removed to make space for walking and cycling, Swedish broadcaster SVT Nyheter reports.

13 October 2023, 09:03

Near Miss of the Day 879: Driver makes very close pass on cyclist but only gets warning letter (includes swearing)

A cyclist who was about to turn left when he received a very close pass from an impatient driver who was going straight on at the junction concerned has told road.ccthat he is unsure how much more it takes for a motorist to be prosecuted following such a manoeuvre after police told him that they had sent a warning letter after reviewing the footage.

Read more: > Near Miss of the Day 879: Driver makes very close pass on cyclist but only gets warning letter (includes swearing)

13 October 2023, 09:03

Chris Froome's new ride... with disc brakes and questionable colourway

Froomey Froome’s looking to get back to racing and this time, as we reported yesterday, he finally, FINALLY, seems to have welcomed disc brakes with open arms.

> “When it works, it is great”: Rim brake devotee Chris Froome finally admits he’s “warmed to disc brakes”

Great visit to @FactorBikes HQ in Taiwan 🇹🇼 this week. Look forward to racing on this beautiful bike soon! 🦏🇬🇧 pic.twitter.com/hdxde50YVz

— Chris Froome (@chrisfroome) October 13, 2023

But at what cost? That colourway? Pardon my strong opinions, but my eyes hurt looking at that bike. When Froome finally decides to make one correct decision with the disc brakes, he stumbles again with that garrish design.

13 October 2023, 09:03

It's chocolate week from Monday! Here are some health benefits from chocolates for cyclists...

I know I know, I don’t need another excuse to indulge in my sweet tooth and open another chocolate bar, but hey, turns out there’s some other health benefits you can enjoy by eating some of the good brown stuff, other than the obvious fuelling purposes on rides!

A cycle and e-bike insurer cycleGuard has discovered what benefits does chocolate have for cyclists. Chocolate, which is made up of a higher percentage of cocoa can be an effective recovery source after exercise (great!). Cocoa also contains antioxidants which can help to treat inflammation and muscle soreness. And of course, it has enough carbohdrates that can help you refuel and replace muscle glycogen after a tiring ride.

> Official: Daily chocolate consumption makes you a better cyclist

Besides, an American study carried out in 2017 found that dark chocolate, along with almonds, managed to reduce the levels of “bad” cholesterol in the body. While dark chocolate on its own is not going to build-up the power in cyclist’s legs for those long and arduous hill climbs, it may be able to help them prepare for it. Cocoa also contains a number of amino acids, such as leucine, which are needed for muscle growth and repair.

Exodus Cross-Country Skiing - Chocolate
Exodus Cross-Country Skiing - Chocolate (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Exodus Cross-Country Skiing - Chocolate
Exodus Cross-Country Skiing – Chocolate (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

And finally, a study by Kingston University investigated the effect that flavanols had on the body during exercise and had nine ‘moderately trained’ cyclists replace a snack with 40g of dark chocolate in their daily diet for two weeks. Dark chocolate is particularly rich in flavanols, a group of natural compounds from plants which have antioxidant-like effects on the body and can also be found in things like tea.

The study suggested that the riders may have become more efficient at their own oxygen usage after adding dark chocolate to their diet. It may be that, for short-duration, moderate-intensity exercise, dark chocolate might help people exercise for longer.

> Have a break – have a Kitkat (what pro-riders do in the off-season)

Well as is with anything, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that excessive intake of chocolate can of course, produce results counter beneficial to the entire of point of having chocolates for health purposes. Dunno just felt that had to give that disclaimer here, perhaps more for me than for anyone else…

13 October 2023, 09:03

School run cycling mum assaulted by driver in front of her children

Police tape
Police tape (Image Credit: CC licensed by freefotouk on Flickr)
Police tape
Police tape (Image Credit: CC licensed by freefotouk on Flickr)

A West Midlands woman who accompanies her children to school by bike has spoken on social media of the moment she was assaulted in front of them by a driver who was apparently frustrated that he had been unable to overtake them in his car.

“The man assaulted me after telling my 2 children to go to school as their mom was going to get beat up,” says Nikki Dee

> School run cycling mum assaulted by driver in front of her children

13 October 2023, 09:03

Hackney cyclists to protest following two deaths in borough in recent weeks

Whiston Road, Hackney
Whiston Road, Hackney (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)
Whiston Road, Hackney
Whiston Road, Hackney (Image Credit: Farrelly Atkinson)

Cyclists in the London Borough of Hackney are to hold a protest calling for safer streets after two people were killed while riding their bikes there in the past six weeks, and say that repeated calls for safety improvements to be made have been ignored.

> Hackney cyclists to protest following two deaths in borough in recent weeks

13 October 2023, 09:03

Are they really dead? Is it really time to start digging the grave for rim brakes?

Promethean fire for some, the bane of existence for others (looking at you Froomey), disc brakes versus rim brakes is a saga that seemed to persist for eternity in cycling circles. But as time has passed on, one has come out on top against the other, and thankfully, in my completely biased opinion, it’s looking more and more likely to be the former.

When even the British National Hill Climb champion has switched to disc brakes, what reason (other than, say nostalgia), have you got to still have the back of your beloved rim brakes?

(Well we all know we will back here again soon and all of you will be on my door with pitchforks if Andrew Feather ends up failing to defend his title later this month…)

> Rim brakes really are dead! Here’s why the British National Hill Climb champion has switched to disc brakes

13 October 2023, 09:03

"E-Bikes are bicycles, not motorbikes": EU Court rules e-bikes not capable of causing bodily or material damage comparable to motorcycles, cars or trucks

Kicking the day off with a landmark ruling from the other side of the Channel, the Court of Justice of the European Union has declared that e-bikes are bicycles, instead of motorbikes because “it is not propelled exclusively by mechanical power”.

The Court, ruling on a case brought forward following the death of a cyclist using an e-bike in Bruges, Belgium after being hit by a motorist, was faced with the question whether an e-bike can be classified as a “motor vehicle”.

The ruling said: “The bicycle’s motor merely provided pedal assistance, including through the use of a ‘boost’ function. Moreover, that ‘boost’ function could be activated only after the use of muscular power (by pedalling, by walking with the bicycle or by pushing it).”

> Amsterdam looking to set a 20kph speed limit on e-bikes

Lime e-bike
Lime e-bike (Image Credit: Lime)
Lime e-bike
Lime e-bike (Image Credit: Lime)

The legal classification of the bicycle in question turned out to be crucial in order to determine whether the victim was the driver of a ‘motor vehicle’ or whether there would be eligibilty for automatic compensation as a ‘vulnerable road user’ under Belgian law.

The court concluded that e-bikes “do not appear to be capable of causing bodily or material damage to third parties comparable to the damage that may be caused by motorcycles, cars, trucks or other vehicles propelled exclusively by mechanical power.”

Earlier this year, road.cc had found out that Hammersmith and Fulham Council had implemented a ban on e-bikes and e-scooters from part of Thames Path, after the council approved a Public Space Protection Order (PSPO), although those using them as mobility aids, or individuals such as parents or carers transporting children were exempt.

> E-bike safety: What to avoid when buying an e-bike, battery or charger

At the consultation stage, 68.2 per cent of 1,233 respondents were in favour of the proposed prohibition of the use of e-scooters and e-bikes, with 27.3 per cent voting ‘no’, 3.8 per cent ‘maybe’ and 0.7 per cent ‘unsure’.

Addressing the proposed PSPO for ‘reckless cycling’ H&F had ultimately decided to listen to concerns about “discouraging the use of pedal cycles as a healthy means of transport to and from work”

13 October 2023, 09:03

10-year-old’s BMX bike stolen – during competition at National Cycling Centre

10-year-old’s BMX bike stolen – during competition at National Cycling Centre

Bike was taken from area reserved for competitors at site which is also home to British Cycling

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Adwitiya Pal
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Adwitiya joined road.cc in 2023 as a news writer after completing his masters in journalism from Cardiff University. His dissertation focused on active travel, which soon threw him into the deep end of covering everything related to the two-wheeled tool, and now cycling is as big a part of his life as guitars and football. He has previously covered local and national politics for Voice Cymru, and also likes to write about science, tech and the environment, if he can find the time. Living right next to the Taff trail in the Welsh capital, you can find him trying to tackle the brutal climbs in the valleys.  

54 Comments

54 thoughts on ““E-Bikes are bicycles, not motorbikes”: EU Court rules e-bikes as not capable of causing “damage comparable to motorcycles”; Chris Froome’s new bike with disc brakes; £32k karma for not restoring cycle path; Penny-farthing stunts + more on the live blog”

  1. Rendel Harris
    October 13, 2023 at 9:25 am
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    Quote:

    The legal classification of the bicycle in question turned out to be crucial in order to determine whether the victim was the driver of a ‘motor vehicle’ or whether he was entitled to automatic compensation as a ‘vulnerable road user’ under Belgian law.

    Think “he was entitled to” should be changed to “his relatives are entitled to”, given that the poor blighter’s dead. Sensible decision from the court, as long as an ebike is limited to a speed that any reasonably fit able-bodied person is able to attain on a non-powered bicycle there is no reason to treat them differently in such circumstances.

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    • Moist von Lipwig
      October 13, 2023 at 10:17 am
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      Good point. Should be

      Good point. Should be categorised relative to the force of impact of its mass at the top speed it could potentially attain.

      “” Moreover, that ‘boost’ function could be activated only after the use of muscular power (by pedalling, by walking with the bicycle or by pushing it)””

      After all, motorised vehicles can also only attain their speeds after use of muscular power – from the arm/hand required to switch the thing on…

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  2. Rendel Harris
    October 13, 2023 at 9:29 am
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    This is absolutely peak “as a

    This is absolutely peak “as a cyclist myself”: driver of an uberwankpanzer gets out and confronts cyclist, telling him “Don’t fucken look at me” and justifying his ire by explaining “I cycle every single day of ma life!” Truly bizarre.

    https://twitter.com/AlanMyles8/status/1712567297821598062

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    • Steve K
      October 13, 2023 at 9:35 am
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      Rendel Harris wrote:

      This is absolutely peak “as a cyclist myself”: driver of an uberwankpanzer gets out and confronts cyclist, telling him “Don’t fucken look at me” and justifying his ire by explaining “I cycle every single day of ma life!” Truly bizarre.

      https://twitter.com/AlanMyles8/status/1712567297821598062

      — Rendel Harris

      It’s not typical “as a cyclist myself” though as, judging my his attire, he probably does cycle (although maybe off-road?) as opposed to just meaning I went to Center Parcs once.

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      • Rendel Harris
        October 13, 2023 at 10:02 am
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        Steve K wrote:

        It’s not typical “as a cyclist myself” though as, judging my his attire, he probably does cycle (although maybe off-road?) as opposed to just meaning I went to Center Parcs once.

        — Steve K

        I was thinking spin class at the gym maybe? But yes, probably one of those who puts his MTB on the back of the wankpanzer and drives long distances to ride through forests, cursing all the pesky road cyclists who get in his way.

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    • mattw
      October 13, 2023 at 10:10 am
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      Knickerbockers – Glorious.

      Knickerbockers – Glorious.

      Why is the Man from the Micropenis Mobile dressed up like Sir Hilary Bray from a 1969 Bond film?

      Fancy dress party?

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    • Safety
      October 13, 2023 at 10:41 am
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      Rendel Harris wrote:

      This is absolutely peak “as a cyclist myself”: driver of an uberwankpanzer gets out and confronts cyclist, telling him “Don’t fucken look at me” and justifying his ire by explaining “I cycle every single day of ma life!” Truly bizarre.

      https://twitter.com/AlanMyles8/status/1712567297821598062

      — Rendel Harris

      Ah yes Glasgow, where making eye contact with a stranger results in mortal combat. Whaes like us.

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    • brooksby
      October 13, 2023 at 10:46 am
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      Can I have the ;TLDR on that

      Can I have the ;TLDR on that one?  I was watching with the sound off and I cannot for the life of me understand what the cyclist could have done to trigger the motorist…  They seemed to spend the entire video clip in two deparate lanes of the road/.

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      • Rendel Harris
        October 13, 2023 at 11:03 am
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        brooksby wrote:

        Can I have the ;TLDR on that one?  I was watching with the sound off and I cannot for the life of me understand what the cyclist could have done to trigger the motorist…  They seemed to spend the entire video clip in two deparate lanes of the road/.

        — brooksby

        The cyclist was just as bemused as you, apparently he glanced back to check the position of the driver before pulling off and the driver seems to have decided that he was giving him the eye for encroaching on the ASZ. Word for word “Don’t fucken look at me ya idiot. Yer staring at me ‘cos I’m sitting here and it’s dark right, and you’re staring at me as if I’ve done something wrong, I cycle every single day of my life, stop being a knob.”

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        • GMBasix
          October 13, 2023 at 11:26 am
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          Rendel Harris wrote:

          Can I have the ;TLDR on that one?  I was watching with the sound off and I cannot for the life of me understand what the cyclist could have done to trigger the motorist…  They seemed to spend the entire video clip in two deparate lanes of the road/.

          — Rendel Harris

          The cyclist was just as bemused as you, apparently he glanced back to check the position of the driver before pulling off and the driver seems to have decided that he was giving him the eye for encroaching on the ASZ. Word for word “Don’t fucken look at me ya idiot. Yer staring at me ‘cos I’m sitting here and it’s dark right, and you’re staring at me as if I’ve done something wrong, I cycle every single day of my life, stop being a knob.”

          — brooksby

          I think he fell into something like the “what you lookin’ at?” gotcha:

          • answer a) “I’m lookin’ at you” –> physical attack
          • answer b) “Nothing” –> “oh, you think I’m nothing, do you?” –> physical attack
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          • chrisonabike
            October 13, 2023 at 12:52 pm
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            GMBasix wrote:

            I think he fell into something like the “what you lookin’ at?” gotcha:

            • answer a) “I’m lookin’ at you” –> physical attack
            • answer b) “Nothing” –> “oh, you think I’m nothing, do you?” –> physical attack

            — GMBasix

            The only way which might work is a confident side-step. Cheerfully saying “A man who needs a hug!” and then just calmly ignoring them while the small bit of not-yet-fully-primed-for-conflict brain tries to catch up and make sense of that is something I once observed having success.

        • brooksby
          October 13, 2023 at 1:35 pm
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          Rendel Harris wrote:

          Can I have the ;TLDR on that one?  I was watching with the sound off and I cannot for the life of me understand what the cyclist could have done to trigger the motorist…  They seemed to spend the entire video clip in two deparate lanes of the road/.

          — Rendel Harris

          The cyclist was just as bemused as you, apparently he glanced back to check the position of the driver before pulling off and the driver seems to have decided that he was giving him the eye for encroaching on the ASZ. Word for word “Don’t fucken look at me ya idiot. Yer staring at me ‘cos I’m sitting here and it’s dark right, and you’re staring at me as if I’ve done something wrong, I cycle every single day of my life, stop being a knob.”

          — brooksby

          Thanks, Rendel.

          Some people, eh…?

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  3. mattw
    October 13, 2023 at 9:45 am
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    Mildly amused.

    Mildly amused.

    So the Court decision affirms the EU definition of a pedal cycle, which is the same as ours, to include EAPCs (pedelecs) as ours does.

    Hammersmith and Fulham are already self-f*cked because they used the term “e-bike” in their PSPO, which has no meaning in UK Law – ignoring all the stakeholders (including Wheels for Wellbeing) who patiently explained to them why they were being idiots.

    They can’t go at EAPCs because the law defines them as “pedal cycles”.

    Those four wheel Amazon “Postman Pat” cargo-bike vans are also EAPCs, so H&F can’t act against those, either.

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  4. HoarseMann
    October 13, 2023 at 10:11 am
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    Here’s the EU ruling https:/

    Here’s the EU ruling https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2023-10/cp230155en.pdf

    It’s clarifying a point in Belgian law regarding state compensation of vulnerable road users, by confirming an e-bike with a throttle ‘boost’ is still an EAPC and doesn’t require insurance. I don’t think it’s got any broader implications than that.

    In the UK, an e-bike with full throttle control can still be classed as an EAPC if it’s certified as a 250W Low Power Moped.

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    • mattw
      October 13, 2023 at 10:35 am
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      Where can such be used – only

      Where can such be used – only on the roads? And with what required safety gear, insurance, registration etc?

      But I thought the “Low Power Moped” class was repalced in 2015 or so by the “EU class L1e-A”.

      Was it not? Or is this another example of our useless government sitting on its butt?

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      • HoarseMann
        October 13, 2023 at 11:01 am
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        “250W Low power moped” is a

        “250W Low power moped” is a new sub-class created in 2019 under UK law. It is different to the “low power moped” class, as power is limited to 250W and speed restricted to 15.5mph.

        You need to pay £55 to get it certified with a single vehicle approval. But if you do that, then it’s classed as a bicycle, exactly the same as any other EAPC, but you don’t have to pedal as full throttle assistance can be used up to 16mph.

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      • IanMK
        October 13, 2023 at 11:09 am
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        This should provide clarity.
        This should provide clarity. I’m not sure that it does.
        https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs-in-great-britain-information-sheet#general-requirements—eapc-classification

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        • HoarseMann
          October 13, 2023 at 11:29 am
          0

          IanMK wrote:

          This should provide clarity. I’m not sure that it does. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs-in-great-britain-information-sheet#general-requirements—eapc-classification

          — IanMK

          That’s a press release from 2015. Some of it still holds true. 
          The details for 250W LPM are a more recent development. If you look at this document (scroll right to near the end, in the glossary section) you will see references to 250W LPM.

          https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/motorcycle-single-vehicle-approval-inspection-manual

          I’ve no doubt that the majority of throttle only e-bikes are illegal motorcycles. But it is possible to have a legal throttle only e-bike in the UK.

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  5. Miller
    October 13, 2023 at 10:16 am
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    The ruling said: “The bicycle

    The ruling said: “The bicycle’s motor merely provided pedal assistance, including through the use of a ‘boost’ function. Moreover, that ‘boost’ function could be activated only after the use of muscular power (by pedalling, by walking with the bicycle or by pushing it).”

    Increasingly for the ebikes I see nowadays that definition does not hold true. They are throttle-controlled so pedalling is not necessary. That applies to all the bodge-job delivery bikes and I think also to quite a lot of the strange fat-tyred ebike/motorbike/shopper hybrids that I see on the streets more and more. Their riders may be resting their feet on pedal-shaped objects but they sure ain’t doing any pedalling.

     

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    • hawkinspeter
      October 13, 2023 at 10:23 am
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      Miller wrote:

      The ruling said: “The bicycle’s motor merely provided pedal assistance, including through the use of a ‘boost’ function. Moreover, that ‘boost’ function could be activated only after the use of muscular power (by pedalling, by walking with the bicycle or by pushing it).”

      Increasingly for the ebikes I see nowadays that definition does not hold true. They are throttle-controlled so pedalling is not necessary. That applies to all the bodge-job delivery bikes and I think also to quite a lot of the strange fat-tyred ebike/motorbike/shopper hybrids that I see on the streets more and more. Their riders may be resting their feet on pedal-shaped objects but they sure ain’t doing any pedalling.

      — Miller

      In those instances, they are not e-bikes and are instead electric motorbikes which require number plates and insurance etc.

      It’s interesting that the police have no desire to crack down on those electric motorbikes – it would be simplicity itself to turn up to a food delivery place at peak time and arrest a bunch of people arriving on them. I would guess that they cause far fewer problems than all the legitimate motor vehicles that are driven so poorly.

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      • mattw
        October 13, 2023 at 10:33 am
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        I think the willingness to

        I think the willingness to crackdown varies by force.

        IIRC Durham and Cardiff do confiscate, and Royal Parks police recently?

        Notts police have a couple of police off-road bikes, and have been seen to intervene, but only iirc give words of advice – not worth the paper they aren’t written on.

        Personally I see illegal Surrons regularly, especially through anti-motobike barriers, usually being ridden sensibly but with a number of young hoons around.

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    • Rendel Harris
      October 13, 2023 at 10:25 am
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      Vastly annoying and

      Vastly annoying and frequently highly dangerous they are too, but they are illegal electric motorcycles, not PAS ebikes.

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      • brooksby
        October 13, 2023 at 10:43 am
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        But there do seem to be an

        But there do seem to be an awful lot of them…  Usually being ridden by blokes wearing a balaclave and with a Deliveroo style box strapped to their backs.

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        • Rendel Harris
          October 13, 2023 at 10:57 am
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          brooksby wrote:

          But there do seem to be an awful lot of them…  Usually being ridden by blokes wearing a balaclave and with a Deliveroo style box strapped to their backs.

          — brooksby

          I know, the police in London could wipe out the scourge almost immediately just by spending a few minutes outside popular collection points for Deliveroo etc but they’re not interested. A while back I was riding up Finborough Road Chelsea at about 25 mph with a police car in the lane to my right keeping pace with me, suddenly one of those bikes shot between us and off up the road at least 40 mph. I gestured to the officers in a sort of “there’s an easy pinch for you” way and the passenger just shrugged as if it was nothing to do with them.

          Deliveroo and all similar companies should be made legally accountable for their employees having legal ebikes, in my opinion: a £5000 fine for the company for every employee found riding an illegal bike would soon sort matters out.

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          • hawkinspeter
            October 13, 2023 at 11:08 am
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            Rendel Harris wrote:

            I know, the police in London could wipe out the scourge almost immediately just by spending a few minutes outside popular collection points for Deliveroo etc but they’re not interested. A while back I was riding up Finborough Road Chelsea at about 25 mph with a police car in the lane to my right keeping pace with me, suddenly one of those bikes shot between us and off up the road at least 40 mph. I gestured to the officers in a sort of “there’s an easy pinch for you” way and the passenger just shrugged as if it was nothing to do with them.

            Deliveroo and all similar companies should be made legally accountable for their employees having legal ebikes, in my opinion: a £5000 fine for the company for every employee found riding an illegal bike would soon sort matters out.

            — Rendel Harris

            I don’t think trying to fine Deliveroo for their employees would be any more successful – if the police don’t care to catch the riders, why would they care to submit loads of paperwork to Deliveroo?

          • Rendel Harris
            October 13, 2023 at 11:37 am
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            Obviously I’m thinking of an

            Obviously I’m thinking of an ideal world where the police would actually do their job!

          • HoldingOn
            October 13, 2023 at 12:00 pm
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            Rendel Harris wrote:

            Obviously I’m thinking of an ideal world where the police would actually do their job!

            — Rendel Harris

            Unlike the police van during my lunch time walk, who drove very slowly past a lorry parked on the pavement, that had completely blocked it off (they had folded the side mirror in to get even closer to the wall) and just carried on going…

          • hawkinspeter
            October 13, 2023 at 12:03 pm
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            Rendel Harris wrote:

            Obviously I’m thinking of an ideal world where the police would actually do their job!

            — Rendel Harris

            Yeah, I just don’t see how making Deliveroo accountable would add anything.

          • Rendel Harris
            October 13, 2023 at 12:53 pm
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            hawkinspeter wrote:

            Yeah, I just don’t see how making Deliveroo accountable would add anything.

            — hawkinspeter

            Because if the company knew that they were going to be fined £5000 for every non-compliant bicycle used by their employees and that someone would be checking (needn’t even be the police, could be local council officers), they would make damn sure they had some inspectors on the ground checking and refusing to employ anyone who didn’t use one.

          • hawkinspeter
            October 13, 2023 at 1:24 pm
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            Rendel Harris wrote:

            Because if the company knew that they were going to be fined £5000 for every non-compliant bicycle used by their employees and that someone would be checking (needn’t even be the police, could be local council officers), they would make damn sure they had some inspectors on the ground checking and refusing to employ anyone who didn’t use one.

            — Rendel Harris

            Nah, they’d claim that those riders were self-employed and not part of Deliveroo’s own delivery team. They’d then produce a bunch of paperwork with little check-boxes that the riders had declared themselves to be fully compliant with all legal requirements and then Deliveroo would lose the contact information and state that they don’t use those riders anymore and that they’re nothing to do with them.

            The simplest and easiest solution is for police to rock up to a known hang-out for riders and then seize all the non-compliant vehicles along with whoever is riding them. That way, they have the culprit and the evidence in one easy visit and they can probably buy their dinner at the same time too.

          • wtjs
            October 13, 2023 at 1:08 pm
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            then Deliveroo would lose the

            then Deliveroo would lose the contact information and state that they don’t use those riders anymore and that they’re nothing to do with them

            They have learned these dodges from the police, who make up laws and rules and blame inaction on the CPS, and claim that offences have to be witnessed by police officers, and claim that the NFA decision was made by someone ‘who didn’t sign the log’ so they can’t do anything, or that they have to have confirmatory video from the offending vehicle but there isn’t any etc. etc. Lying police are one of our greatest problems

          • chrisonabike
            October 13, 2023 at 1:45 pm
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            But won’t lots of others just

            But won’t lots of others just buy the ebikes at the police auction and then Deliveroo will hire them – sorry, accept them as independent contractors?

            (Yes – you’d assume the police would just crush them but …)

            That horse may be well and truly volted by now but ultimately these firms are deriving benefit.  Possibly like trying to regulate the wild west but perhaps worth another round?  Wasn’t there some minor victory a while back trying to nail some gig economy firms for saying their drivers / workers were not employees so therefore they were free to both get them to work for zero additional benefits AND also avoid responsibility for stuff they did while working?

          • Rendel Harris
            October 13, 2023 at 2:37 pm
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            chrisonatrike wrote:

            That horse may be well and truly volted by now

            — chrisonatrike

            Quality.

          • Rendel Harris
            October 13, 2023 at 4:20 pm
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            hawkinspeter wrote:

            The simplest and easiest solution is for police to rock up to a known hang-out for riders and then seize all the non-compliant vehicles along with whoever is riding them. That way, they have the culprit and the evidence in one easy visit and they can probably buy their dinner at the same time too.

            — hawkinspeter

            Agreed, I did say in my OP “the police in London could wipe out the scourge almost immediately just by spending a few minutes outside popular collection points for Deliveroo etc”. Not sure about letting them buy their dinner though, lots of our local cops look as if even I could outsprint them and the only time I see them out of their cars is when they are popping into Costa or the M&S local to pick up a few hundred more calories.

            Of course the problem could also be solved if everyone who uses Deliveroo decided to boycott them until they had decent employment policies, proper riding instruction and regular checks on employee bikes for safety and legality purposes, but I’ve had a look at my calendar and the 12th of never doesn’t seem to be coming along any time soon…

          • hawkinspeter
            October 13, 2023 at 4:33 pm
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            Rendel Harris wrote:

            Agreed, I did say in my OP “the police in London could wipe out the scourge almost immediately just by spending a few minutes outside popular collection points for Deliveroo etc”. Not sure about letting them buy their dinner though, lots of our local cops look as if even I could outsprint them and the only time I see them out of their cars is when they are popping into Costa or the M&S local to pick up a few hundred more calories.

            Of course the problem could also be solved if everyone who uses Deliveroo decided to boycott them until they had decent employment policies, proper riding instruction and regular checks on employee bikes for safety and legality purposes, but I’ve had a look at my calendar and the 12th of never doesn’t seem to be coming along any time soon…

            — Rendel Harris

            To be honest, I’m unconcerned about Deliveroo riders using electric motorbikes as it’s better than them using ICE powered motorbikes and they tend to be a lot lighter – most of them look like a MTB with batteries duck-taped into the frame triangle. I don’t doubt that some of them cause problems with their interpretations of road rules, but at least they’re not in a tonne of metal causing problems.

            However, I can’t recall every using Deliveroo, so my boycotting powers are diminished. I don’t see much point to them in cities as the take-away places aren’t usually more than a ten minute walk away.

          • Rendel Harris
            October 13, 2023 at 7:59 pm
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            hawkinspeter wrote:

            To be honest, I’m unconcerned about Deliveroo riders using electric motorbikes as it’s better than them using ICE powered motorbikes and they tend to be a lot lighter – most of them look like a MTB with batteries duck-taped into the frame triangle. I don’t doubt that some of them cause problems with their interpretations of road rules, but at least they’re not in a tonne of metal causing problems.

            — hawkinspeter

            Agree to an extent, but some of the Deliveroo folks round my area are using ebikes that can do 45+ mph, 25mph over the limit of most of the local roads, usually without/with minimal lighting after dark, they do cause plenty of problems.

            However, I can’t recall every using Deliveroo, so my boycotting powers are diminished. I don’t see much point to them in cities as the take-away places aren’t usually more than a ten minute walk away.

            — hawkinspeter

            Same here, I did use them to send my mother a few takeaways during the pandemic when she had to isolate but I don’t need ’em – and in fact am pretty disgusted by the way they’re often used in my south London neck of the woods, people getting them to deliver coffee and bagels on Sunday morning as if they ain’t got legs.

          • belugabob
            October 14, 2023 at 8:00 am
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            hawkinspeter wrote:

            However, I can’t recall every using Deliveroo, so my boycotting powers are diminished. I don’t see much point to them in cities as the take-away places aren’t usually more than a ten minute walk away.

            — hawkinspeter

            Unfortunately, a five minute walk is too much for some people.
            One one occasion, as I started unloading the shopping, from my car, my neighbour drove away and, before I’d finished, he returned with his son, who he’d picked up from football practice.
            Total journey time was less than 5 minutes, but he still chose to drive.

          • Cugel
            October 14, 2023 at 9:13 am
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            belugabob wrote:

            However, I can’t recall every using Deliveroo, so my boycotting powers are diminished. I don’t see much point to them in cities as the take-away places aren’t usually more than a ten minute walk away.

            — belugabob

            Unfortunately, a five minute walk is too much for some people. One one occasion, as I started unloading the shopping, from my car, my neighbour drove away and, before I’d finished, he returned with his son, who he’d picked up from football practice. Total journey time was less than 5 minutes, but he still chose to drive.

            — hawkinspeter

            Is it time for Yorkshire boasting about our observations of blebish Britains, then? Here’s mine:

            A neighbour of smokey-boozy aspect and the smell to prove it would get in his jallopy to travel 300 yards around the end of the village green to get to the wee shop that was 100 yards from his gate as a crow shopping for pork scratchings might fly. (I measured the distances in my long-stride walking paces, just to be annoying). He was going to the shop each day for his fag and Daily Hate Mail.

             

            He died aged 56 from lung cancer. Very sad for those that loved him …. but he cared more for nico-drug and car “convenience” to bother about disappointing others in various ways.

            Cars kill in more ways than one. Who else had an increment or two added to their chance of getting a body rot from the fellow’s exhaust fumes, both fag and car?

             

  6. HoldingOn
    October 13, 2023 at 10:44 am
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    ahhh there we go. Friday 13th

    ahhh there we go. Friday 13th, but a mass-cycling video to see me though.

    It was a bit too rainy to spot Steve K though…

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    • Steve K
      October 13, 2023 at 11:25 am
      0

      HoldingOn wrote:

      ahhh there we go. Friday 13th, but a mass-cycling video to see me though.

      It was a bit too rainy to spot Steve K though…

      — HoldingOn

      I’ve not ridden today as Friday 13th is my wfh day.

      However…

      … that video was filmed yesterday

      … and I know Rory and his office is very near mine

      … and I did ride in yesterday

      … but that’s not on my route

      … until November, when we move office, and then I will go over London Bridge

      … but then my office will no longer be near Rory’s.

      I hope that clarifies things.

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      • HoldingOn
        October 13, 2023 at 11:56 am
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        …so in November, if Rory

        …so in November, if Rory posts a “wait until the p***ng snow, there’ll be no cyclists…” video – you may be on his route at the same time as him and therefore appear in his video, but you won’t be able to pop over and say hello to him.

        By the way – in my head, i have concocted a “Steve meets Rory” scenario, where you both arrive at the office at the same time and notice each other across the street, parking your bikes. A quick finger point “Hey!” and swap names. Rory goes off to his office thinking “strange i’ve never seen Steve in any of my videos”

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      • mattw
        October 13, 2023 at 12:10 pm
        0

        If you are going over London

        If you are going over London Bridge, you may meet the silly cycling columnist from the Spectator.

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  7. chrisonabike
    October 13, 2023 at 11:25 am
    0

    RE: “Wait until the pi***ng

    RE: “Wait until the pi***ng rain, they’ll be no cyclists…”

    Some nice sounds in these:

    Riding in the Rotterdam rain

    Houten in the rain

    Also maybe interesting – how to get all that water away when it lands.  (especially to folks like The Ranty Highwayman, big fan of rain gardens).

     

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  8. mattw
    October 13, 2023 at 12:54 pm
    0

    £32k is a fleabite to a large

    £32k is a fleabite to a large housing developer like St Modwen.

    Their turnover is £350 million or so per annum.

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  9. mitsky
    October 13, 2023 at 2:28 pm
    0

    In case anyone missed my late

    In case anyone missed my late comment yesterday about the “cyclist dismount” signs feel free to print this off and stick it on them.

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  10. hutchdaddy
    October 13, 2023 at 2:30 pm
    0

    Part of the war on motorists.

    Part of the war on motorists…

    Drivers caught in ‘car trap’ say warning signs aren’t clear enough

    … or entitled motorsists complaining about their own stupidity.

    Log In or Register to post comments
    • HoldingOn
      October 13, 2023 at 2:49 pm
      0

      The comments are fun

      The comments are fun

      I hope there’s a clear sign saying “No cars”, because I’ve never heard of a “car trap”.

      — SNORK

      and the reply (that they would also get if it was on road.cc):

      If I see a sign that says “car trap” then i tend to surmise that it is a trap for cars….. I’m intuitive like that

      — IAMRIGHT2021

      Log In or Register to post comments
    • mitsky
      October 13, 2023 at 3:03 pm
      0

      Key point at bottom of

      Key point at bottom of article:
      “
      Cllr Kevin Reynolds from Cambridgeshire County Council has admitted he has little sympathy for the drivers who get stuck.

      He said: ‘If people driving along that road cannot see a big hole in the ground in front of them then I would argue they wouldn’t be able to see a small child.

      ‘I would question whether they should be behind the wheel at all…’
      “

      Log In or Register to post comments
      • squidgy
        October 13, 2023 at 5:33 pm
        0

        I wonder in Cllr Reynolds
        I wonder in Cllr Reynolds will be so cocky when a cyclist or motorcyclist hits that and ends up in hospital, or the morgue? But then I guess it won’t be his head on the line and he’ll just pass the buck to his council officers. The only point of that seems to be to cause damage . Inevitably it will cause injury and that has to be contemptible.

        Log In or Register to post comments
    • Miller
      October 13, 2023 at 3:39 pm
      0

      I had a look at the junction

      I had a look at the junction on Streetview. As one approaches the car trap there are at least 3 ‘dead end’ signs, and the car trap sign (scary!), and red paint on the road, and I think two Buses Only legends painted on the road surface. Oh, and a bloody great hole in the road itself.

      So yeah, sympathy in short supply.

      Log In or Register to post comments
    • Hirsute
      October 13, 2023 at 4:39 pm
      0

      In the comments

      In the comments

      “These are the kind of people that follow their satnavs over cliffs.”

       

      “What if in an emergency an ambulance took the route?”

      Then there is no way on earth they should be driving an ambulance with that level of observation !

      Log In or Register to post comments
  11. Ride On
    October 14, 2023 at 5:21 am
    0

    YES! Almonds and dark
    YES! Almonds and dark chocolate are officially a health food.

    Log In or Register to post comments
    • Cugel
      October 14, 2023 at 8:59 am
      0

      Ride On wrote:

      YES! Almonds and dark chocolate are officially a health food.

      — Ride On

      Thank Gawd for that – I gobbles loadsa very dark choc and all sorts of nuts, in addict-fashion. What do they say about coffee beans and the fine liquors one can produce from them?

      I often wonder what would happen if I stopped greeding at such stuff but it may be awful … so I don’t.

      Log In or Register to post comments
  12. No Reply
    October 15, 2023 at 8:00 pm
    0

    Whilst I agree that disc

    Whilst I agree that disc brakes are much better than rim brakes as both my winter bike and gravel bike are running Hope 4 pots, I still have my beautiful Colnago C60 with its rim brakes. As it is only ridden on glorious sunny summer days, I cannot justify spending £12K plus simply to bring it up to date with disc brakes. Especially as the fuckwits at Colnago have decided that the latest C frame is electronic groupset only.

    Sorry, I will keep my rim brakes and Super Record RS mechanical groupset.

    Log In or Register to post comments

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Latest Comments

Blackthorne83 13 minutes ago

Congrats Emily!

in: Modern machinery for modern gravel: How I took second place at the Welsh Gravel Championships
BaselGooner 13 minutes ago

Is the “serious suspicion” just that these two are much better than everyone else rather than any actual evidence… oh and there is a good French rider at last so let’s help them out…

in: Judge signed off on Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard’s nighttime doping tests due to “serious suspicions” before Tour de France, according to reports
Daddy Feebs 52 minutes ago

"It's time to stop arguing about tubeless"? Well, not really. the entire premise of the "argument" here, is that everyone in the peleton is using it, so it's perfect. But, of course, the pros are using all the benefits of tubeless, and any downsides, are merely swept up, by a support network of crew. If I was able to run tubeless, but in situations where I got a sidewall split, and couldn't get the bead off the rim, or my tyre boot still kept spewing sealant.....and in all those situations, a support vehicle would magically appear and sort it, or give me a new bike, you bet I'd be running tubeless.

in: The most useful tech trends to copy from Tour de France pros — wide tyres, short saddles and tubeless are in, narrow cassettes are out
Xenophon2 1 hour ago

This is what happens when inadequately trained and ill-equipped enforcement staff go out and 'do checks'. They'll settle and pay. That said, many of these bikes ARE in fact illegally modified, turning them into illegal electric motorcycles that ride around without compulsory insurance so there definitely should be more oversight. And although not a matter for the price, I don't think it's allowed to rent out bicycles subsidised under that scheme for commercial use. This Allama fellow sounds like an activist with a chip on his shoulder but I'm not sure his activism has anything to to with cycling.

in: Police seize and destroy delivery cyclist’s legal e-bike hired through council-funded scheme after “bogus” test – but officers claim rider didn’t have insurance
Pub bike 6 hours ago

Another rival at a similar price point is the Ridgeback Panorama which comes with a front rack and a dynamo lighting system.

in: Spa Cycles D’Tour 725 Mk2 (Thru-Axle) Disc Tourer 11spd Cable Disc
sammutd88 6 hours ago

Wouldn’t happen to a French rider. French judge.

in: Judge signed off on Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard’s nighttime doping tests due to “serious suspicions” before Tour de France, according to reports
Aluminium can 6 hours ago

FACT I got my bikes rear wheel to 115kmh by putting it upside down and spinning the cranks by hand. It doesn't have a motor. The bike could probably go even faster if flung off a tall building. Hashtag science.

in: Police seize and destroy delivery cyclist’s legal e-bike hired through council-funded scheme after “bogus” test – but officers claim rider didn’t have insurance
Pub bike 6 hours ago

"One of the least mentioned is that in the event of a dinged or buckled rim, you can still ride, at least to a degree." What about if the disc gets buckled e.g. when the bike has been transported in a bag? How easy is it to straighten out a disc? Can the bike still be ridden?

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chuckd 7 hours ago

I'm reminded of Hincapie's handlebar/steerer tube misfortune at the 2006 Paris-Roubaix, and the wonder I felt that durability priority had sunk that far. And I'll always feel better about a high-speed blowout on my tubs than anything else.

in: The most useful tech trends to copy from Tour de France pros — wide tyres, short saddles and tubeless are in, narrow cassettes are out
momove 7 hours ago

Yes, I don't disagree with you. I wasn't meaning to advocate for her in the role, just observing. Although the ambition was nice to hear, for a change. Unless I've missed something, as of 23:30 the Transport Secretary still hasn't been announced? Doesn't say a lot for that as a priority, but I get there are other things to announce first. I'm more interested in the appointment of Lucy Powell and "changing the education system". Will wait and see, I suppose.

in: Could Jonas Vingegaard quit cycling after a second bad crash?; Andy Burnham’s Transport Secretary Speculation; Doping suspicions at the Tour; Mad Transcontinental aero set-up + more on the live blog

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