Plans for 'mini-Holland' cycling infrastructure scheme met with... positivity from locals

???

Ah - they're a very old techie - an anti-VAXen... (and please can we all [including self] avoid falling into the heffalump traps of culture warriors and get back to cycling?)

brooksby wrote:

???

It was an attempt at parody.

Last time I was in Holland there were a lot of people driving, fast also...? Oh, you mean The Netherlands (sorry couldn't help me).

Well if they've got it right about the climate our coastal and river infra will be much more like theirs at least...

I know but old habits die hard 😃 And who knew there was a Holland in the U.K. (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ) (not me!)) 

Comparison here including Johnathan Meades odd program on this.

if it was more like Holland, that would be great, sadly imo what we end up calling mini hollands are nothing like what the Dutch would build. Like apparently (because they havent shared the plans publically yet) Suffolk county council are planning to Mini Holland Market Hill in Woodbridge https://goo.gl/maps/7GBey7eMyc5jNsJo9

now theyll have to keep some permitted road access I suspect for deliveries at least to the businesses there at the top and bottom parts, so chances are it just means pedestrianising the middle bit with a bit of LTN planting, maybe an access gate for emergency services and taking away car parking space. But on the whole in terms of modal shifts, thats not really the issue that stops people cycling in Woodbridge or that area, you arent going to adopt cycling if the only bit that works for you is the last 10metres.

Yup absolutely agree. Most new infrastructure in the U.K. is just not extensive enough and of a high quality to truly change travel habits. It's all too timid, just blooming build it then tweak it later. Watching the various Dutch YouTube channels it's clear they don't just build it and leave it as is. Its constantly being upgraded, adapted or tweaked. 

Another point is that cycling and walking don't trash their infra like motor vehicles do.

In the UK to break into a virtuous circle the amount of driving will have to decrease substantially.  (The hard part as this requires a deliberate reduction in convenience or increase in cost and people hate "losing" stuff even if it wasn't "theirs" anyway).

Motor vehicles are space inefficient - private cars especially - so moving or stationary they and their infrastructure take up a LOT of space.  BUT if a small part of this on the main routes can be reclaimed that is a big win for cycling and walking.  Then maintenance requirements will also fall on those sections.  Bonus!

I'm quite convinced (unfortunately) that the natural path may be Compenhagnize then Netherlandize, as Copenhagen looks recognisably like carland, and can be slightly understood.

What did the Netherlands look like in 1980?

What did NL look like in the 80s?  Some of it (and the infra) looked very similar (and even long before that).

Video here (and other articles on the same blog) show how the country changed from the 60s and 70s on.  Different parts went at different paces, it wasn't all peaceful and non-violent, some changes were thrown out as totally unpopular (but are now utterly uncontroversial).

As someone on here pointed out there may have been some unexpected contributions from to odd local factors e.g. from rural motor-scooterists.

You can find odd bits of similar looking infra apparently of similar vintage dotted about the UK too (though Carton Reid has also dug up 1930s stuff).  Around Peterborough, the well-known Stevenage and Milton Keynes etc.

Key UK difference was that most of the UK examples (although some were products of thoughtful folks) essentially "moved the cyclists off the roads".  Most was being built when cycling was in decline *.  So even when good it was better by car.  The cycle infra compromised on "social safety", navigation (often you can't see where you're going), directness and having a coherent network which reached the main destinations.  That part - with limited space - was monopolised by motor vehicles.

* True of NL too but they already had some tradition of cycle infra and I believe still had a high cycling modal share at the point when the car and access for it was starting to be heavily promoted by authorities.

Except they've now got very important 'work' to do! Hopefully well into next year.

Inb4 "this is all very suspicious for reasons I will never specify"