Surrey Police has released the full footage of an incident involving a group ride of cyclists, who were stopped and issued fixed penalty notices at the weekend for ignoring a red light, amid questions over the video originally shared on social media that did not show the offence being committed.
Addressing the hundreds of replies on the original post, the Surrey RoadSafe account posted a second video showing the moments leading up to and, crucially, the actual offence being committed, the group of four cyclists filtering to the front of a queue of stationary traffic on Copsem Lane in Esher before crossing the stop line and making a right turn while the traffic lights were red.
“Following on from yesterday’s post, there were a lot of questions raised as to whether the cyclist had travelled over the stop line when the lights were red. As you can see from the downloaded cleartone, the lights were red when they crossed the stop line and then continued,” the account said alongside the video below.
Following on from yesterdays post, there were a lot of questions raised as to whether the cyclist had travelled over the stop line when the lights were red.
As you can see from the downloaded cleartone, the lights were red when they crossed the stop line and then continued. https://t.co/ChHvVmOMRU pic.twitter.com/v8UqkXSkkt
— Surrey RoadSafe (@SurreyRS) January 15, 2024
When contacted by road.cc, a Surrey Police spokesperson added: “Officers from the Vanguard Road Safety Team were in an unmarked police car on Copsem Lane travelling towards Esher Town on 13 January 2024. At this junction, the left lane is to go straight, right lane is designated right turn. There was queuing traffic in right lane, and the left lane clear. Both lanes were governed by a red traffic light which was clearly visible at the time.
“At 08.40 am, four cyclists continued in lane one with unmarked directly behind where the officers observed the cyclists contravene the red traffic light in lane on, failing to stop at the solid white stop line. They continued through, moving across in front of the waiting traffic in lane two. Traffic lights were still red when they crossed. The cyclists then turned right where the unmarked followed and stopped them.
“The cyclists were warned of their vulnerability and that they put themselves in danger of a collision and injury. All were issued with a £50 fixed penalty ticket for ‘contravention of a red traffic light’ and given suitable safety advice for the future.”
The original footage of the incident shared on social media by Surrey RoadSafe only showed the moment the riders made the turn, having already crossed the stop line before the video started. This raised concerns from some, many of whom accepted that an offence had almost certainly occurred, but who questioned why a video [seen below] used for education purposes had been edited so to avoid actually showing the offence.
#VanguardRST stopped these 4 cyclists in Esher after they were observed contravening a red traffic light. FPN’s issued to all.#vulnerableroadusers #fatal5 pic.twitter.com/np612MNx62
— Surrey RoadSafe (@SurreyRS) January 14, 2024
Rory McCarron, cycling lawyer at Leigh Day explained: “They probably did but the worrying issue here is that they didn’t actually show the offence of crossing the stop line when red.
“Police normally request evidence of close passes etc. with back video leading up to the offence. If a motorist (or pedestrian/cyclist) presented this video in this form, with the start cut off, the police would reject it straight away.”
In response to the full footage he later added:
Thank you for showing the whole video. Justified FPN, no excuse. A lesson learned to the cyclists (and maybe the poster of the original video). Whilst this isn’t fatal 5, your work generally is applauded.
— Rory McCarron (@CyclingLawLDN) January 15, 2024
Another cyclist replying to the post showing the extended footage said: “Thanks for clearing this up. Why initially only post the cropped video only showing the moment after the offence?”
A third rider added: “Thank you for posting the whole thing. The additional footage makes it clear that there was indeed an offence committed. Everyone needs to obey the rules, and the bigger the vehicle the more vital this is.”
Bang to rights and deserve their FPNS.
This is all we were questioning it for, if you’re going to post a photo or video make sure it’s clear what’s happening otherwise it’s always going to create needless arguments. https://t.co/47DwIXcUBJ— Bikery (@Bikery1966) January 15, 2024
























59 thoughts on “Under-fire police force releases full video of cyclists fined for ignoring red light amid questions over original footage”
Fair enough, the cyclists are
Fair enough, the cyclists are in the wrong, but why wasn’t that clip shown from the start?
They might have thought there
They might have thought there was an ASL at the front, but then realised there wasn’t and found themselves in the path of traffic coming from the right. Maybe…
And they still should have
And they still should have *stopped*.
They could have easily have said to the right turn car that they had screwed up, can they go in front…
Or they could have waited in a single file on the left / right turn divider…
But they didn’t.
They *chose* to break the law, and the law caught them.
Stop making excuses for shitty behaviour.
Im not excusing the right
Im not excusing the right turn, they got caught. They also didn’t observe the car coming up on the inside, that turned out to be a cop car, so didnt do a lifesaver check before going up the inside of queued traffic. But I often do ride to the front where I know there is an ASL only to find the front car stopped or moving slowly into it to block me off.
I too try to pass to get to
I too try to pass to get to the ASL then I can safely move away, but nine times out of ten there’s a car in it.
I expect they were very
I expect they were very familiar with the junction and timings.
They took a chance and lost.
Hirsute wrote:
Certainly if they weren’t familiar with the junction they were taking a very stupid risk that the traffic from the right wouldn’t be released straight into them. Looks like at least the leader (the guy at the back seems less sure and actually unclips to stop, then realises the rest are going on) knew the light timings and that they could get across on the phasing. No excuse, mind.
Rendel Harris wrote:
I once got a talking to on a club ride for splitting a large group because I stopped when a light turned red. I was told a group of cyclists should behave like a lorry and trailer – if the front has crossed the line, then the rest follows.
I don’t ride with the club anymore.
quiff wrote:
meanwhile at my club most of us stopped when the rider at the front went through on orange and when we caught them stopped and waiting down the road we rolled past, they had to work hard to get back on. When he complained I told him not to go through lights on orange, the outcome is obvious, and it puts pressure on the rear riders to jump reds.
Can I join?
Can I join?
If the four individuals
If the four individuals concerned are reading this, they may want to change their privacy settings on that ride pretty sharpish. At the very least, the two showing an average speed of 1.5mph on the relevant segment.
Well that’s a fair cop.
Well that’s a fair cop.
Sometimes you might think there’s an ASL and filter to the front, get a bit caught out and end up over the line a bit. But to carry on and make the turn there was poor.
Some red lights can be ridden through safely, but this situation was not one of those.
I just don’t understand why –
I just don’t understand why – all they have done is added an extra 4 cars that will want to overtake as soon as they turn the corner – I can understand filtering in large amounts of traffic but that seems pointless – MGIF works both ways
The police were completely
The police were completely justified in issuing tickets. Fools like these give other cyclists a bad name, I’ve remonstrated with many for doing exactly that.
The sad thing is, how many drivers do this on a daily basis and never get caught.
I refuse to be an ambassador
I refuse to be an ambassador for all cyclists every time I get on my bike. Group responsibility is a lie, at least for something as broad as a transport mode.
Boopop wrote:
Well, certainly none of us here would ever blame things on an amorphous group of drivers/drivists…
Unfortunately lots of people do apply group responsibility, so it doesn’t much matter what you or I think: they’ll act as if it’s real and so it may as well be. It’s a discussion I’ve had through a number of car windows: “I might have cut you up, but you cyclists all ride through red lights/ride on the pavement/kill puppies” / “You’ve not seen this cyclist do any of those things. I’ve seen you nearly kill me though.”
The correct answer is that everyone is overall better off if everyone understands and obeys the laws, and doesn’t act like one “group’s” breaking of them means that the other’s is acceptable.
Brauchsel wrote:
…and it’s wrong. We don’t accept it for protected characteristics so I don’t see why we should accept it for something as mundane as a transport mode. You can be beholden to the knuckle draggers of this world if you must but I won’t. People who think like that will always think the worst of cyclists anyway, no amount of “good behaviour” is going to change their mind.
I didn’t say that we should
I didn’t say that we should “accept it”, but that it makes very little difference whether or not we do. Using protected characteristics as a (flawed) analogy, the unacceptability of racism or sexism or homophobia doesn’t mean that the existence of those things is “a lie”.
As I said in the post you replied to, I do challenge those attitudes when I come across them. I’m not beholden to “knuckle-draggers” (are they a group?) in particular, but to an extent I am as I am to everyone else on the road and they are to me. That tangle of shared obligations is much easier to navigate and fulfil if everyone involved follows a common set of rules, such as stopping at each and every red traffic light regardless of whether it’s a personal inconvenience or “I’m a good driver/cyclist and can trust my own judgement”.
.
.
Quite right too. Assholes. Give the rest of us a bad name.
.
Do you think speeding drivers
Do you think speeding drivers give all drivers (and thus the vast majority of the UK population) a “bad name”, or is this just a nonsense you apply to minority transport modes?
I think I can understand how
I think I can understand how they did what they did (being generous), but nevertheless agree with the FPN on this occasion.
That being said, how come it took all this media coverage for the police to disclose the entirety of the incident?
And – I dont believe that their behaviour gives me a bad name, any more than my own bad behaviour (when I finally do it!) will reflect upon them.
But that’s how all prejudice
But that’s how all prejudice works: person A sees other people of a certain type doing something so person A assumes all people of that certain type act and think that way. We haved to fight that within ourselves as it is a core evolutionary survival instinct demonstrated by other social animals but not useful in the modern global village
brooksby wrote:
YOU might not believe that, but many many drivers do. They see ‘some’ cyclists doing stuff like this, and we ALL get punished because these drivers stick us all the same box. They put every cyclist they drive past at risk because they think “we’re all as bad as each other”. No amount of safe and legal riding by you or I will change some of those attitudes.
Dicklexic wrote:
Collective punishment is generally forbidden by modern society under treaties such as the Geneva Convention. However, you seem to think it’s appropriate that drivers should deal out such forbidden punishments even though the drivers are not in any way associated with law enforcement and often don’t even know what the road traffic laws actually are.
It wouldn’t matter if every single cyclist on earth obeyed every road sign and traffic law and practised perfect roadcraft – some drivers are still going to get irrationally angry about imagined issues and will ignore their responsibility to take care around vulnerable road users.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Definitely agree with this statement, Peter.
Just read the comments to
Just read the comments to Blackbelt Barristers review of this footage, I’m sure Ashley Neals will be the same when he does his, nearly everyone seems to have a I saw a cyclist jump a red light once anecdote to share.
We might not agree that it should be like this, I see regularly ten times more motorists jump red lights than cyclists,but its definitely an attitude people take towards cyclists as a group.
None of them can have any
None of them can have any complaints on that one.
The new video is doubling
The new video is doubly disappointing. Firstly, they clearly broke the law. Second, the better-quality footage doesn’t reveal anything on their kit or bikes to indicate that they are triathletes.
It’s a fair cop guv.
It’s a fair cop guv.
I believe murder, theft,
I believe murder, theft, arson are punishable in all countries.
Cyclists crossing red lights though isn’t, there are states in US and many countries in EU that allow it. And it is even more rare to punish red light crossing pedestrians who practically have the same weight and 2-3 times the speed of cyclists, whereas cars have 10-15 times more weight and 5 times greater speed compared to bikes.
It is 2024, we have a global warming crisis, and laws aren’t written in the Tablets of Stone and unable to be changed.
cyclisto wrote:
End the horror of 30 mph pedestrians now!
Lol mistakes happen! But I
Lol mistakes happen! But I guess Usain Bolt may actually be 2-3 times faster than me cycling on lazy commuting speeds.
They were only breaking the
They were only breaking the law in a very specific and limited way. I believe this is commonly accepted now.
Come on guys. Did people
Come on guys. Did people really think that the police were making this up to win some brownie points with drivers or some other ridiculous notion. If I was a cyclist and had gone through on green and then was waiting to turn and the light went red and the police tried to fine me I would have told them to bugger off as I would think these cyclists would do. If this was a car, cyclists wouldn’t have been debating anything about the legitimacy of it.
Sometimes we are our worst enemies.
No.
No.
But I do think the crap drivers who drive at me in road works etc when the lights don’t have a long enough all red phase for cyclists to get through will use the video to claim I committed a crime and justify recklessly driving at me.
~2 years ago we changed the HW code to explicitly instruct drivers that they have to yield to pedestrians approaching zebra crossings because they couldn’t be expected to extrapolate that they needed to be able to yield on the basis that pedestrians had priority as soon as they stepped onto the crossing, something they could do at any time.
So no, we can’t expect the least capable/competent drivers to extrapolate from partial footage and police statements as to what actually happened and do need to show it clearly…
Your point stands, but:
Your point stands, but:
See all the drivers trying to
See all the drivers trying to claim victory on the subsequent footage against riders querying why the offence wasn’t shown.
The surrey road safe account effectively admitted fault by publishing a correction to the original footage, yet bad drivers are claiming it as a victory over said cyclists…
So Surrey are doing roads
So Surrey are doing roads policing now? That’s a turn up for the books…
Will they release any footage
Will they release any footage from the side view? I haven’t gone past a traffic queue without seeing at least one driver on their phone this year.
They broke the law and must
They broke the law and must pay the fine, They undertook and went straight through a stop signal.
One of those things is not
One of those things is not illegal.
Blackbelt Barristers review
Blackbelt Barristers review of it highlighted the undertake was contrary to the highway code, which could mean it could be considered careless & inconsiderate cycling under the road traffic act.
I don’t agree with BBB’s view
I don’t agree with BBB’s view that the ‘undertake’ was contrary to the highway code. Cyclists can pass other vehicles on either the left or the right.
HoarseMann wrote:
But as the lane they used for the undertake is clearly marked ahead only I think that changes matters, doesn’t it? The undertake wouldn’t have been contrary to the code if they had stayed in that lane and gone straight on, but fairly sure it’s not permissible for any vehicle to use an ahead only lane to undertake vehicles waiting in the right turn lane if they are turning right themselves.
Rendel Harris wrote:
never seen a driver go right to the end of the slip lane before filtering in to stationary traffic in order to get ahead of 30 other stationary cars when joinging the motorway? Good to know this is illegal.
wycombewheeler wrote:
That’s a completely different situation! As far as I know there is no law or guidance in the Highway Code as to the distance you can drive up a slip lane before joining the motorway, whereas it is not permitted to use an ahead only lane to undertake right turning traffic if you are turning right yourself.
Rendel Harris wrote:
Those arrow road markings are only advisory. No offence is committed if they had just used that lane to filter past traffic. If there was an ASL there with a filter lane on the left, you would be expected to cycle up the leftmost side to enter the ASL, even when turning right.
Heck, I do it all the time, particularly with right turn refuges, if traffic is totally stationary, I’ll utilise the extra space to get safely past. I also do the same in bus lanes, where they briefly cease and turn into a ‘left-arrow’ lane near a junction, I’ll continue straight on in that ‘left-turn’ lane.
HoarseMann wrote:
Are you doubting road.cc’s “Most Correct & Valuable” member??!
Ah yes, the beauty of cycling…not allowed to filter past traffic now apparently. Or maybe go on the outside and ride into oncoming traffic?
That’s exactly what I said,
That’s exactly what I said, if they were only using it to filter past traffic it’s fine, and yes if they had been using it to gain an ASL that would be fine too, but they weren’t and that’s why they were ticketed.
They could have used that
They could have used that lane to filter to the front of the right turn queue, that would have been fine. The only offence was to go through the red light.
This is a common example of
This is a common example of road layout designed by drivers, for drivers, with zero comprehension of other highway users needs.
There is no ASL here, so crossing the road on green with other impatient drivers is hazardous.
The cyclists went to the front and crossed the oncoming traffic road before their lights went green.
This is the safest move within a biased junction arrangement. I would do this.
The fine? It’s a cyclists’ safety tax. Many (not all) cyclists break ‘the law’ because it fails them.
It fails them on contributory negligence (helmets), it fails them on close passing, it fails them on road rage.
In infrastructure design, the highway is designed hostile to people outside a motor vehicle. The emphasis is on victim blaming, and this bias against people using bikes comes from the DfT to judges, through the CPS to plod on the beat. This reinforces driver arrogance and entitlement.
Do I ‘break the law’ like this? Yes, regularly, because I do know better. I also know that breaking faulty laws and staying alive is preferable to being dead but law abiding.
It sucks, but that is UK highway culture. The result of nearly a century of motor myopic governance.
Not so long ago in London, a
Not so long ago in London, a cyclist went through a red light – he hit another cyclist and killed him.
kingleo wrote:
Citation please? I’ve never heard of this and no Google search I can devise brings up any result for it.
Plenty of results for hit and
Plenty of results for hit and run or lorry driver though.
Found this for red light
Found this for red light jumping cyclist kills pedestrian.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/cyclist-who-jumped-red-light-jailed-over-pedestrians-death/
Yes, heard of that one, there
Yes, heard of that one, there is a very small number of similar tragic cases that always attract enormous publicity (far more than the far higher number killed by red light jumping motor vehicles) but never heard of a red light jumping cyclist killing another cyclist.
never heard of a red light
never heard of a red light jumping cyclist killing another cyclist
It’s just another another one-post or retread troll deliberately or through dim-ness getting it wrong over the usual ‘furious cycling death’, isn’t it?
” The BBCNews handling of
“ The BBCNews handling of the death of 2 people hit by a car while walking their dog is off the scale. 1) Radio 2 didn’t even mention what killed them. No reference to car or driver in opening line. No reference to presence of driver or whether they remained at the scene. “
kingleo wrote: