If you’ve been caught on camera in the wrong, it’s probably best to cut your losses, take your medicine and accept your place on a driver awareness course…
Today’s Near Miss of the Day has shades of Sunday’s now-famous edition — Near Miss of the Day 783 where an aggressive close pass driver was offered a speed awareness course, declined, and ended up with a £2,460 fine and six points after losing two appeals.
No effing and blinding in today’s, and a slightly lesser punishment in court, but another motorist who should probably have just taken their £85 slap on the wrist and run.
road.cc reader Dave was riding near Bridgend in Wales last September when he was close passed by the driver of the Audi Q8 in the video above.
As with Sunday’s Near Miss, Dave sent this one in via Operation SNAP, prompting the police to offer the driver a place on an awareness course. Instead, they turned it down, taking it to court and ended up with a rather hefty bill.
A fine of £1,152, surcharge of £115, £620 court costs, and 4 points on his licence. That awareness course is looking quite appealing now, isn’t it?
“From all of my correspondence with South Wales Police they have been great with dealing with close pass videos,” Dave told us. “They have provided good feedback on most the videos and are quick to respond if they need more information.”
> Near Miss of the Day turns 100 – Why do we do the feature and what have we learnt from it?
Over the years road.cc has reported on literally hundreds of close passes and near misses involving badly driven vehicles from every corner of the country – so many, in fact, that we’ve decided to turn the phenomenon into a regular feature on the site. One day hopefully we will run out of close passes and near misses to report on, but until that happy day arrives, Near Miss of the Day will keep rolling on.
If you’ve caught on camera a close encounter of the uncomfortable kind with another road user that you’d like to share with the wider cycling community please send it to us at info@road.cc or send us a message via the road.cc Facebook page.
If the video is on YouTube, please send us a link, if not we can add any footage you supply to our YouTube channel as an unlisted video (so it won’t show up on searches).
Please also let us know whether you contacted the police and if so what their reaction was, as well as the reaction of the vehicle operator if it was a bus, lorry or van with company markings etc.
> What to do if you capture a near miss or close pass (or worse) on camera while cycling
66 thoughts on “Near Miss of the Day 784: Another close pass driver refuses awareness course… only to get £1,152 fine and four points in court”
I was actually impressed with
I was actually impressed with the Seat driver. Aproaching a brow with the sun in their eyes and waited until the approaching cars had passed and it can be seen to be clear before performing the overtake instead of just lemming-ly following the car that had just passed.
No surprise the Audi was the one that failed. Was it because of the car make? Or the car type? I’m assuming the former as the following silver SUV at the end seemed to give plenty of room.
Must be a trick of the light,
Must be a trick of the light, but it looked to me as though the Q8 driver was using their indicator before not moving out enough.
Troon wrote:
Is there a little-known option package for the Q8 that includes indicators? Because indications are that they don’t come standard.
They have them but the
They have them but the switches aren’t connected.
Surely it is a right and left
Surely it is a right and left airbag deployment control?
AlsoSomniloquism wrote:
When you pay extra for the ‘premium’ badge on a vehicle that is designed by the same people on the same computers and built in the same factories by the same robots using the same parts as all other vehicles (barring some hand built exotics) it’s no surprise you consider yourself better than almost everyone else and act accordingly.
Lot of traffic for such a
Lot of traffic for such a poor road.
Can completely understand why
Can completely understand why that driver will have asked for his day in court… can also completely understand why they lost…
Great result. It just goes to
Great result. It just goes to show that close pass prosecutions can succeed in court.
I know it’s hassle for the police and courts when drivers contest a course or FPN, but if people start to realise the punishment will be harsher at court and they’re unlikely to win, then they’ll stop challenging them and pay up!
The fear of getting an FPN or driver awareness course will then start to have a moderating effect on driver behaviour.
Large amounts of
Large amounts of Schadenfreude from bad drivers thinking they should get away when caught for their bad driving, only to end up with a massive fine and points on their licence 😀
Whether the bad drivers learn from this experience is an entirely different matter.
Heol-y-cyw, batman!
Heol-y-cyw, batman!
Well that’s cheered me up!
Well that’s cheered me up!
Yep I agree. I think too
Yep I agree. I think too many people have been listening to Mr Loophole, thinking that if they just appeal a FPN that they will be guaranteed to succeed in their appeal as it’s not worth the time of the police and CPS to take it to court.
It is perfect response by the judges to slap a higher penalty than they would have if they had just accepted the FPN and hopefully after a few results like this the message will make its way to all motorists
I just had a Google at
I just had a Google at Pepipoo to see what sort of advice was being handed out, and I was pleasantly surprised at the evenhandedness of it, even with a backdrop of niggling.
For example: try this one.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t140220.html
I post on both (mostly
I post on both (mostly private parking) pepipoo and here, and indeed it’s pretty even there.
?? what a result! Both 783
?? what a result! Both 783 and 784 have made my day. Hit them in the wallet. Amazing.
Wow…call that a close pass?
Wow…call that a close pass? I think I should get myself a camera and start getting drivers fined on some of my rides!
Chris Hayes wrote:
Bear in mind this isnt a contest where the only the closest of the close passes gets fined. Have a close look at the angles in the video. It looks like the cyclist was close to being in primary and the Q8 which is a massive barge of a car at the best of times barely starts crossing the white line before he’s alongside.
I’m just genuinely surprised
I’m just genuinely surprised that this pass attracted a fine….
Chris Hayes wrote:
Bear in mind that it didn’t initially, it was only because Mr.Bellend decided to contest it that he got fined, he could have taken his awareness course. It is at the outer limit of what I would expect to get action from the police (or at least my force, the Met), but it is at speed, unnecessary (as the other cars show it was possible to leave much more room) and well within a metre. Of course we’ve all seen much worse not sanctioned, but that’s because the decision not to sanction them was wrong, not because the decision to sanction this one was.
That’s good to see. Here in
That’s good to see. Here in Hampshire the authorities seem to take no interest. I have reported two close passes, provided links to Youtube links (unlisted), the viewing counters remained at zero, meaning the evidence had not even been examined.
Chapeau South Wales Police then for taking action. In fact they have their own Youtube where they show some of the worse cases they have prosecuted.
This particular one from them cost the driver nine points and a hefty fine.
moonfruit wrote:
Should have been banned and made to resit the driving test as they clearly aren’t compentent to drive.
There are strict rules on
There are strict rules on evidence submission and I don’t think the police will accept a YouTube clip as evidence, I could be wrong but that is my understanding. It’s still poor that they haven’t looked at it though.
Billy1mate wrote:
As far as I understand it (I’ve only submitted videos to the Met who take direct uploads) some forces request – or have done so before Operation Snap – that you upload your video to a private YouTube post, unavailable to the public, and send them a link to it.
I’ve had some success in
I’ve had some success in Hants. I recently put a note asking them to contact me if they *cannot* take action so that I know I can publish the video, and twice they replied saying they can’t say exactly what happened but it was *one of* either a warning/course/fixed penalty/court, so they weren’t binned. One time I was close-passed and got verbal abuse, and an officer phoned me (on a Sunday) and took the details for a separate offence of public order, although obviously that was NFAd, I didn’t seriously expect anything.
The other costs are
The other costs are potentially they hired a solicitor (if so, what was that solicitor thinking) and the hassle of proving income as fines are income related,aren’t they, with a default?
Be interested to hear from the submitter about the court experience.
If I was the solicitor I’d be
If I was the solicitor I’d be thinking “might as well make some money off this bell-end and charge by the hour!”
You just fill out a means
You just fill out a means form. Not crazy difficult
It turns out they are self
It turns out they are self-employed (or that’s how I interpret 77 year old businessman), so they probably would need to get their accountant involved.
So he spent £2,500 on a
So he spent £2,500 on a solicitor according to the Sun, and spent time fanning about measuring roads and getting irate about being fined all because he couldn’t wait 10 seconds for the conditions to be safe to pass.
He didn’t even need to wait,
He didn’t even need to wait, just use his brain and move over to leave enough room when overtaking.
bikes wrote:
Exactly – as evidenced by both the driver in front and behind him.
I like that it was filmed in
I like that it was filmed in Hole Y Cow
I was particularly pleased a
I was particularly pleased a few years ago – when riding from London to Middlesbrough – to turn into a road called Brown Cow Road in Selby and for there to be a brown cow in the field next to it. The cow marked this by laying down a massive pat.
Better that than 90 miles NE,
Better that than 90 miles NE, in Lickey End…
Article about this in the Sun
Article about this in the Sun, from the driver’s point of view (of course!)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/18894514/fined-points-passing-cyclist-closely/
I was fined £1.8k and given 4 points on my licence for ‘passing a cyclist too closely’ but I left LOADS of room
brooksby wrote:
Um, so even by their own account they only left ~80% of the minimum they’re supposed to? Not sure they’re really helping their case there…
I think Mr. Humphreys needs
I think Mr. Humphreys needs to watch the video. No way is there four feet left.
Here’s the location, as far as I can tell.
https://goo.gl/maps/o5fcbGMfMMkWH5zu5
The roadway appears to be 18.5 feet (5.6 m) wide there, so 9.25 feet (2.8 m) for the lane. Scaling the line drawing I found of a Q8, allowing for his offside tyres being barely over the centreline, there is 5.83 ft (1.78 m) of Audi still in the cyclist’s lane, leaving 3.42 ft (1.02 m) for the cyclist. I imagine the cyclist himself uses up quite a bit of that, so yes it is every bit as close as it appears.
I read it as (maybe?) he
I read it as (maybe?) he thought he needed to leave four feet from the kerb, and that therefore four feet wasnt so bad? And I agree, no way did he leave anything like even four feet between the cyclist and his SUV.
brooksby wrote:
Of course he didn’t and I think you’re right, I’ve had several “debates” with drivers recently who believe that 1.5m means 1.5m from the kerb, so with me being 50 cms wide and riding 50 cms off the kerb it’s OK for them to pass within 50 cms of my outside shoulder.
Even more basic than that,
Even more basic than that, judging from some Newspaper online discussions of close passing, it appears most drivers have no idea what 1.5m is and think it’s 15cm.
Pointing out that 1.5m should be the minimum distance between the outermost part of the cyclist and innermost part of the car provokes a response that it is 1.5m when it clearly is nowhere near
Kirk Patric wrote:
It doesn’t bode well for when Johnson pulls the plug on the metric system…
If only he’d accepted the
If only he’d accepted the awareness course, then he’d now know.
Loving the “I never done
Loving the “I never done nuffin’ in my life! It was ages since I broke the law and that was only by a tiny amount!”
The poor dear really ought to
The poor dear really ought to have just sucked it up and accepted the driving awareness course, IMO…
I’ve never had a fine does
I’ve never had a fine does not equate to being evidence of being a careful and considerate driver. My fines record (3 speeding tickets over 45 years, 9 points in total) certainly does not reflect the appalling standard of my driving at certain times, simply the probability of being caught.
Quote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61815609
The bloke’s a complete fool. Highway code says [i]at least 1.5m [/i](and more if you’re doing over 30mph). He’s measured the gap at 1.2m. Whether or not to appeal ?, just can’t figure it out!
1.2m from the edge of the
1.2m from the edge of the road maybe. The pillock is obviously still completely oblivious to his poor driving. I’d suggest he now loses his licence until he attends the awareness course.
More importantly, and an
More importantly, and an issue with the way the highway code is written, is that it promotes the wrong attitude, It should not be how little space can I give another road user but how much space can I give them.
On the road in this incident, any overtaking vehicle should be aiming to be on the other side of the white line down the middle of the road because there’s no (correct) reason not to be there on that road whilst overtaking.
Rule 163 of the new version of the highway code still has the same picture as the old version demonstrating how to overtake a cyclist and that’s in the other lane (http://t.ly/7imV) (the left hand side wheels of the car are on the white line in the picture but stressing that is quibbling). In words it’s just “Give vulnerable road users at least as much space as you would a car” which is ambiguous and partly why the minimum distances were added.
Cycling Scotland has come up with an alternative wording, which is
“Always give at least 1.5 metres of space when driving at speeds of up to 30mph – this will usually mean crossing into the other lane.”
And a Scottish Police advisory video says, “We’d expect you to go all the way over the centre line markings”
If this was going to be a
If this was going to be a consistent result every time someone appealed their FPN then long may it continue.
Also a story in the DM on
Also a story in the DM on this. Unsurprisingly headline fully extends outrage on behalf of the convicted law breaking driver (couldn’t bring myself to read the article). A quick flick through the comments is equally unsurprisingly depressing though.
DM readers normally insisting on greater law and order obviously don’t understand irony.
The BBC have belatedly
The BBC have belatedly reported on this too. To be honest, the driver just makes himself sound like an idiot.
The bit that baffles me is
The bit that baffles me is how he thought risking £2500 of solicitors fees made any sort of sense for fighting an £85 awareness course with no points in his licence through his own choices made any sense.
I suspect he was aggrieved from the start and sulkily ignored the police letters having some misplaced sense of entitlement and only got legal advice when the court summons arrived. I then suspect the solicitor gave him the options and he rejected the option offered to plead guilty instead of going to court.
Absolutely a case of more money than sense.
What’s worse is the end result is he is unrepentant and aggrieved and on the road with his sense of injustice and no retraining.
That’s my exact thoughts…..
That’s my exact thoughts….. “I don’t want to pay the £85 awareness course so I will spend 30 times that amoun on solicitors to try and avoid it”
Personally I hope he does appeal it again, and the judge slaps him with an even bigger fine for being an idiot.
If he can afford to drive a £65k + car I’m sure a £5k fine would be well within his means to afford.
I’m not suprised to see this
I’m not suprised to see this reported in rags like the Daily Fail, but the BBC’s article is below the standard I would expect from them, simply repeating the driver’s whining verbatim.
On the matter of the fine, I note that 4 points is “Band A” for this offence and therefore the fine is presumably Band A too – i.e. 25 – 75% of relevant weekly income. So the fine itself it less than he earns in a week. https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/careless-driving-drive-without-due-care-and-attention-revised-2017/
Motivation? Probably just
Motivation? Probably just the same facet of human nature which makes drivers “have to” pass you unsafely because they’re in a hurry, then immediately stop to have it out with you for as long as you like if you wave your arm / shout at them.
Empowered by a motor vehicle and facilitiated by a large subset of (UK) culture – but a feature of humans. Hence my skepticism at how far we can get with “train ’em better” or even “remove all the bad ones from the road”. Although we should do more of that.
Given the driver’s clear lack
Given the driver’s clear lack of awareness of the law (and ongoing inability to accept that he was breaking it), should it not be the case that if you turn down an awareness course and are then found guilty in court that you should have to take the court’s sanction and attend the awareness course as well?
Rendel Harris wrote:
I think this – and Ian’s final sentence about him being “aggrieved and unrepentant” are really key points. He clearly hasn’t learnt a thing from his experience and still thinks his driving is fine. If he continues to claim there was nothing wrong with his driving, then he should be banned from driving because he clearly is unsafe.
As well as being made to sit
As well as being made to sit the awareness course they should also be made to sit on a stationary bike while someone drives a wankpanzer Q8 past them at the same speed/passing distance that they thought was appropriate to leave the cyclist.
This chump is on Jeremy Vine
This chump is on Jeremy Vine’s Channel 5 show right now, still seems bewildered that he was prosecuted at all. As a bonus, he also managed to get “I’m a cyclist too” thrown in as well.
Why does Jeremy give this guy
Why does Jeremy give this guy a platform to spout his rubbish ? oh yeah ratings, unless the guys pov is completely shown up for the self entitled bobs that it is, then I really dont see this helping anyone on the road.
My eyes hurt from fast
My eyes hurt from fast forwarding the first 60 minutes of the show at 30x but it was worth it for Jeremy’s eye roll when he asked “why not give him a bit more room” and dangerous ‘driver’ replied “I could have done I suppose”.
The other idiot presenter said “well he didn’t hit him”. My mistake, that’s ok then.
And a Scottish Police
And a Scottish Police advisory video says, “We’d expect you to go all the way over the centre line markings”
Advice that the police themselves clearly don’t believe is worthless. Action is the only way to demonstrate belief, and we have heard on here many times that Police Scotland have arranged such a cumbersome system for reporting close-passing (or anything else, presumably) that nobody can face it. Lancashire Constabulary certainly doesn’t believe any of this namby-pamby 1.5m nonsense- although the sniggering b*****d officers occasionally put out ‘Pass Safely’ and ‘1.5m’ signs just for a laugh and so they can enjoy ignoring perfectly documented incidents like this, perpetrated by BMW 5665 MH.
One rather concerning element
One rather concerning element of this case is that the unrepentant driver (Mr Humphreys) is the director of a Warehousing and Haulage firm. I really hope that his lorry drivers show more care and consideration when driving the wagons than he does when driving his Audi. I wonder if he still drives the lorries himself. Hopefully at 77 years old his involvement with the company is more boardroom than steering wheel.
Dicklexic wrote:
I’d just noticed that, after reading the Loophole spin-off of this article. Very simple search at Companies House. He’s a director of a warehousing company and of a ‘freight transport by road’ company. I don’t imagine 4 points on his licence would help, either…
I know this 80 year old who
I know this 80 year old who reads The Sun, ‘Freddie Starr Ate My Hamster’, ‘Liverpool fans urinating on paramedics’ etc. etc so you can guess how outraged he is. He, like the silly old pillock who we hope will appeal, can’t tell the difference between distance from the kerb and distance from the cyclist- he presumably shares this disability with most Mail and Sun readers