Fine Young Cannibal: Is Tadej Pogačar the greatest cyclist of all time? Eddy Merckx thinks so; “Not normal” world champion’s 100km “stupid attack”; Flimsy new bike racks ignored; Michael Woods eats gel from a box with a spoon + more on the live blog
First Published: Sep 30, 2024
SUMMARY
Turns out there was another epic race between three big hitters over the weekend…
I know it’s not quite a world championships won by a crazy long-range move, but still, it’s interesting nonetheless:
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“You don’t decide stupid moves, because when you’re stupid, you do stupid things”: Pogačar says world championship-winning move wasn’t planned… “but in the end, stupid worked”
It may not come a surprise for anyone who’s followed Tadej Pogačar and his impetuous, instinctive character on the bike over the past six seasons to learn that yesterday’s ultimately race-winning move with over 100km to go wasn’t exactly planned.
In fact, the Slovenian himself admitted afterwards that, just like most of us at the time, he thought going clear so early, with the wealth of talent in the chase behind and having entered the world championships as the out-and-out favourite, was a touch “stupid”.
(Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
“For sure it was a stupid move. But in the end, stupid worked,” the 26-year-old said at his post-race winner’s press conference last night.
“It was not panic, I don’t know what happened really. I felt good at that moment, and I had Jan Tratnik at the front, and when he waited for me, I was really motivated.
“It was a bit early, but I knew once I had a solid gap, 30 or 40 seconds, there were no big teams to pull at the back. You never know when you can turn on the engine. I never gave up believing to the finish line.”
(Chris Auld/SWpix.com)
“It wasn’t the plan,” he continued. “Like I said before, it was a stupid move. When I saw Jan in the front, he’s such a machine, he can pull super strong, and that’s what he did. He gave me hope, he gave me motivation. It was still early when he left, but I was riding a bit with my legs and my head, and I was counting down the kilometres, and trying not to go over the limit, and I made it.
“It was really hard, because I was empty. I was already looking with my eyes crossed a bit, I couldn’t even stand on the pedals anymore, but I pushed through, I didn’t give up.”
“You don’t decide stupid moves, because when you’re stupid, you do stupid things. You don’t think about it, that’s why it’s stupid. It worked. It’s not stupid anymore, and let’s leave this behind us now.”
(Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
Reflecting on his maiden rainbow jersey win, and on becoming only the third man in history after Eddy Merckx and Stephen Roche to win the Giro, Tour, and world championships in a single season, the Slovenian said: “It’s going up like a rollercoaster of emotions right now. I experienced all the emotions already today. It was crazy, the last kilometre. When I saw my teammates and Urska [Žigart, his partner and fellow racer], and all the interviews I’ve done before, it was really nice emotions. I’m really… I almost cried at every interview I did before.
“When I was a kid, I didn’t even dare to dream of having this jersey, I just dreamed to be on the start line. In the last couple of years, chasing races, the worlds was always just another race, but I was never really prepared for it.
“But inside of me I wanted to perform well, and this year was the perfect opportunity. It was a good parcours for me. I gave it all today, and it’s more than a dream come true. I can’t wait to start the next races in this jersey. I hope it’s going to be cool and I hope I can have fun in this jersey at races.”
(Chris Auld/SWpix.com)
Pogačar may have been feeling a rollercoaster of emotions at the finish, but his morning before the race was remarkably relaxed (and quite typical for a 26-year-old), as he slept through three alarms, with Žigart forced to wake him up in time for his date with destiny.
That’s when it hits home, for all his accolades and successes over the years, Pog is still a young fella, prone to doing “stupid” things, like any 26-year-old.
Okay, maybe not any 26-year-old. But imagine if he starts racing smart…
“Not normal”, “absolutely mind blowing”, “the beginning of the Pogačar era”: World champion’s rivals react to Zurich demolition
Tadej Pogačar may have fired a few warning shots in the past when it comes to his capacity for long-range attacks – Strade Bianche, anyone? – but his audacious rainbow jersey-winning move still caught everyone on the hop, judging by his rivals’ post-worlds comments.
“I’m pretty sure if you ask him, this wasn’t his plan either but he was really strong and he proved us all wrong,” Mathieu van der Poel, who staged a spirited defence of his world title to finish third, said.
(Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
“I thought that he was throwing away his chances for a world championship jersey because the situation was not ideal and his team was not able to take control, so it was more of a panic attack. But he was just so strong he could make it work until the end.”
Meanwhile, fifth-placed Remco Evenepoel, a touch below his very best despite winning the world time trial championships the weekend before and being expected to challenge the Slovenian on the hilly Zurich course, was even more forthright in his assessment of Pogačar’s 100km move, describing it as a “suicide attack”.
“Tadej was on a special day. In some races you would say this was easily controlled, but the moment he went I was saying to Mathieu that it was a suicide move and that everything was going to come back together.
(Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
“In the end, he rode as fast as we did at the back,” the Belgian said, before evoking the kind of language historically used during the Lance Armstrong era to describe extraterrestrial performances – Pas Normal.
“It was a very long way to go,” Evenepoel added. “Every normal guy would say 100km to go is way too far, but I think Tadej this year is not normal.”
“I think it was a pretty tough moment in the race with 100km left to go, everyone was thinking it’s too much to do,” said Ben Healy, who along with Toms Skujiņš arguably deserved a medal for an attacking, determined ride, but was forced to settle for seventh.
“He went, and I don’t think anyone expected it. Then it was the whole Belgian team chasing them down, so I think with 100km left everyone thought it was a bit much, even for Tadej. He proved us wrong again.”
(Chris Auld/SWpix.com)
However, ninth-placed Quinn Simmons wasn’t buying into the whole surprise element of Pogačar’s attack.
“If anyone is surprised that Pogačar won this race then I don’t think they follow cycling,” the moustachioed Simmons told reporters.
“I did 7,000 kilojoules today, so you tell me if the race was difficult. My teammate Matteo [Jorgenson] told me before the race that he tried to follow Pogačar once and said that ‘when you go too close to the sun you get burnt, and today I got burnt.’”
“Every single time you turn up to the race there’s someone better than everyone else, that is part and parcel of the sport. It’s the same in tennis as well. You do your best,” added surprise silver medallist Ben O’Connor, who’s enjoyed a very successful end to 2024 after finishing second at the Vuelta.
Away from the race, other pros took to social media to express their astonishment at the Slovenian’s possibly era-defining ride.
While Matteo Trentin described Pog’s solo destruction as “absolutely mind blowing”, his compatriot Elia Viviani resorted to emojis:
Tadej 🤯
— Elia Viviani (@eliaviviani) September 29, 2024
And finally, Van der Poel reckons, even after all we’ve experienced this year at the hands of the 26-year-old, that this could be just the beginning.
“I have no idea how long the ‘Pogačar era’ will last, he’s stronger than ever, this is just the beginning,” the Dutchman said.
“He is a deserved world champion. If you see his season, he’s the one who deserves to wear it. It’s going to be good to watch. After the race, I told him he was crazy. But everyone is happy with him as a world champion and for me, it’s nice for the best rider in the world to wear the jersey.”
POLL: Is Tadej Pogačar the greatest male cyclist of all time?
Alright, let’s settle this extremely subjective, era-bending question once and for all, in the only way the live blog knows how – a poll:
The Triple Crown Club
That looks like Roche, it’s Stephen Roche!
The second man to complete the Triple Crown – and until Pogačar’s exploits yesterday, the last – Roche was on hand in Zurich to welcome the Slovenian into one of cycling’s most exclusive clubs:
Greatness recognising greatness 🐐👏
Tadej Pogačar embraces Stephen Roche – the last male rider to complete the ‘Triple Crown’ back in 1987 👑 pic.twitter.com/v0MnwixBYD
— Eurosport (@eurosport) September 29, 2024
Oh, the stories you’d hear on that particular club ride…
So we meet again, Mr Amos
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1,500 cyclists take part in memorial ride on world championships course for Muriel Furrer
The men’s and women’s elite races at the world championships this weekend, for all their intrigue and drama, were played out against a backdrop of tragedy and mourning, following the death of Muriel Furrer due to injuries sustained in a crash during the junior women’s race on Thursday.
More impressions from the Memorial Ride for Muriel Furrer.
Even the fire fighter stood there in honour.#Zurich2024 pic.twitter.com/oQUIJWRxNX— Gruppetto-Magazin (@GruppettoMag) September 29, 2024
A memorial ride for the 18-year-old Swiss rider, who lived just down the road from Zurich, was held on Sunday morning before the men’s race, as 1,500 cyclists covered a sombre lap of the race circuit, including past the spot where Muriel crashed.
Along with the memorial ride, which was staged in place of a planned amateur race on the circuit, a place of mourning was set up near the finish line, with flowers, flags, and candles laid beside a photo of the 18-year-old, while flags flew at half mast in Zurich for the remainder of the championships.
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If it’s not on Strava, it doesn’t count
267km, six hours and eighteen minutes (including an early computer stop within sight of the line), 4,369m in elevation, an average speed of 42.4kph, a max speed of 91.4kph, and a bucketload of KOMs, including one for the entire 26.7km finishing circuit, which he covered in 34.44 (with poor old Pavel Sivakov a distant second with 35.16).
Oh, and a rainbow jersey. All in a day’s work for Tadej Pogačar.
Swansea Council calls abrupt halt to controversial cycle lane after local business owners complained about potential disruption
A proposed cycle lane expansion in Swansea has been brought to a screeching halt, after the local authority claimed policy and priority changes announced by the new administrations at Westminster and in Cardiff would need to be considered before work commenced on the scheme, which has proved controversial with local business owners alarmed about the potential “disruption” it would cause.
The proposed active travel network expansion aimed to link the bottom of Swansea’s Walter Road with the suburb of Sketty via a 1.5 mile-long segregated cycle lane, along with improved pedestrian facilities and upgrades to public areas.
However, despite securing active travel funding from the Welsh government, local business owners have complained that the latest phase of the project, which will run through some commercial areas, will cause disruption during the cycle lane’s construction, while questioning whether the scheme would really encourage more people to cycle.
And last week, Swansea Council said it will put an immediate pause to the project following feedback from residents and businesses, while also enabling the local authority time to consider the recent policy changes announced by the Labour governments in both London and Cardiff concerning economic growth and transport.
However, the council have insisted that the scheme has not been scrapped, but that a new report on the issue will be considered in due course.
“Our transport and highways teams have done an amazing job in creating an extensive walking and cycling network that offers residents and visitors over 120km of safe, enjoyable off-road walking and cycling routes that connect communities, links for children to their local schools and are used and enjoyed by residents and visitors daily,” Andrew Stevens, the council’s Cabinet Member Environment and Infrastructure, said in a statement.
“However, it’s clear that some remaining part of the proposed network, especially those that run through local commercial areas, are much more challenging technically to deliver without sustained disruption. The active travel route for Walter Road and Sketty Road has identified some important local and broader impacts that need to be considered further before deciding whether it is right to continue.
“We are aware of misleading comments on social media claiming that decisions were made before people have had a chance to give their views. This is completely untrue.
“However, there are some broader considerations. Cabinet will need to take into account before making a decision on whether to proceed with the scheme.”
Eddy Merckx could be on to something, you know: Majority of road.cc readers agree with the Cannibal and reckon Pogačar is already the GOAT
Well, it’s official. Tadej Pogačar is officially the greatest male cyclist who’s ever lived, 59 per cent of road.cc readers say so:
I’m sure David Lappartient will be on the phone any minute now to confirm the live blog’s GOAT-granting status. I’ll make sure to organise a lavish ceremony for Tadej at the road.cc office this winter, we could go for pizza afterwards and everything…
When you’re good enough to be a WorldTour team on your own
Not only is he now officially recognised (by the road.cc live blog) as the greatest male bike racer of all time, it turns out Tadej Pogačar is good enough to quite literally be a one-man team.
Yes, that’s right – Pog’s UCI points over the past two seasons would be enough to secure the Slovenian, if he were his own cycling team (that would be one way to cut down costs) a place in the WorldTour, just below Biniam Girmay’s Intermarché-Wanty and their 30 riders:
Fun fact: Pogacar has had around 19000 UCI points in the 2023-2024 period, so if he alone was a cycling team he could get a WT license for 2026. pic.twitter.com/ufDfRz19a6
— Cycling out of context (@OutOfCycling) September 30, 2024
I’m sure DSM-Firmenich and Cofidis will be delighted by that particular stat.
Michael Woods breaks the cycling internet after eating bicarbonate gel with spoon during world championships
Yes, Tadej Pogačar’s 100km winning attack was all well and good, but the big story that broke the cycling internet during yesterday’s world road race championships involved Michael Woods, a Tupperware box, and a wooden spoon.
The sight of the Canadian tucking away into what at first appeared to be a late breakfast, or maybe even a nice hipster brunch, during the early stages of the 273km race, like an office worker dashing off the train, was a new one for many cycling fans, and conjured images of former world champion Paulo Bettini working his way through a tray sandwiches just like mama used to make, while taking it easy at the back the peloton.
“I’ve never seen this before!” 😂
An unconventional mid-race snack option for Michael Woods! 🍚 #Zurich2024 pic.twitter.com/hkBgISR1X9
— Eurosport (@eurosport) September 29, 2024
However, you may be disappointed to learn that despite his rather quaint, old-school method of eating on the go, Woods was actually eating Maurten Bicarb, a bicarbonate gel which apparently helps counteract the negative effects of lactic acid accumulation – but only works for around five hours, hence the Canadian’s late breakfast.
“It was just some Maurten bicarb, it’s really effective,” Woods told Flobikes after the race, where he finished 54th, over 12 minutes down on Pogačar.
“I like using it, but the problem is it only lasts five hours, so I had to have it about an hour into the race.”
Reflecting on his performance, the 37-year-old said: “It was a super hard day. No words really, it was just a hard day. I made some attacks but then got on the back foot when things were moving around. I missed the opportunity to play for the medals. It is what it is.”
Perhaps next time a nice Meal Deal would do the trick?
“Hmmm, don’t think my bike will be locked to these ever”: I wonder why the shiny new cycle parking isn’t being used? And why the old bike stands are still full?
And now for something completely different…
Moving away from all things Pog for the time being, and across to London, where a set of shiny new cycle parking stands have gone down just as well as you’d might expect for some flimsy, inaccessible metal.
The cycle parking facilities have been installed at Clissold Leisure Centre in Stoke Newington, Hackney, and – by the look of the photos shared on social media by the Hackney Bike Fit account – appear to have been completely ignored by the leisure centre’s bike parking customers, who seem to favour the old Sheffield stands still in use:
Yes, even those left out in the rain:
“Loads of new cycle parking at Clissold Leisure Centre. Even in today’s pouring rain, the old cycle stands are nearly full, and this isn’t a particularly busy time,” wrote Hackney Bike Fit. “Not one person has been using the new racks in the four times I’ve been past today.”
Hmmm, I wonder why that is…
“Absolutely perfect for able bodied cyclists using hybrid or road type bikes, absolute rubbish for those who use adapted cycles or have medical impairment that stops them lifting their bike or anyone with a current mountain bike with fat tyres,” wrote Steve on social media, in response to the leisure centre’s new cycle parking facilities.
“Also takes about 20 seconds to cut.”
To ascertain the new stand’s security credentials, Hackney Bike Fit went back to carry out a little strength test:
Had a little strength test of the new cycle stands
Hmmm. Don’t think my bike will be locked to these ever https://t.co/gf8vHkNbJl pic.twitter.com/xHyKqzbkV9
— Hackney Bike Fit (@HackneyBikeFit) September 27, 2024
Crikey.
“Don’t think my bike will be locked to these ever,” she said.
“I take back what I said earlier about using an angle grinder,” replied Andy. “Looks like a butter knife would work on those!”
See, this is what happens when cycle facilities aren’t designed by cyclists. Though I suppose, judging by recent incidents involving bike stands in Hackney, it could be worse…
“I just had the first truck driver actually try and kill me”
Snakes and extremely close passing, belligerent lorry drivers… The latest leg of Lachlan Morton’s lap of Australia sounds, ahem, fun:
> “The truck driver actually tried to kill me”: Lachlan Morton forced to “bail off the side of the road” as lorry driver “kept going directly at me” and “didn’t move his truck one inch” during monster ‘Lap of Australia’ effort
“It’s obvious that he is now above me”: Eddy Merckx casts his vote in the GOAT debate… and he reckons Pogačar has now nipped ahead with “unimaginable” world championships victory
Well there you have it, stop the count – Eddy Merckx has already admitted defeat in cycling’s never-ending Greatest of All Time debate (though I’ll keep our live blog poll running anyway).
Speaking to L’Équipe on Sunday night, after Tadej Pogačar’s barnstorming rainbow jersey-winning ride in Zurich, the Cannibal reckons the Slovenian has already surpassed his historic, race-destroying exploits.
“It’s obvious that he is now above me,” Merckx said of his now fellow Triple Crown winner in an interview with the French newspaper.
“Deep down, I already thought as much when I saw what he did on the last Tour de France, but tonight there’s no more doubt about it.
“Obviously, you can never compare eras, but this is an incredible rider. I didn’t attack with 100 kilometres to go in a world championship, but what he has done is unimaginable. It’s something we’ll remember for a very long time.
“He took a lot of risks against [Mathieu] van der Poel and [Remco] Evenepoel, but that didn’t scare him. That’s when you realise that Pogačar is an immense champion. He’s out of the ordinary.”
(Chris Auld/SWpix.com)
It would certainly have been unimaginable back in 2019, when Pogačar burst onto the scene as a 20-year-old neo-pro with victory at the Tour of California and three stages and a podium at the Vuelta, but as cycling writer Daniel Friebe noted this morning, the Slovenian’s palmares at the age of 26 is already broadly similar to the man long renowned as the greatest of all time:
Of course, as Merckx himself noted, comparisons can be tricky across eras, with different approaches to racing and attitudes towards certain races shifting, but the fact that Pogačar’s record – three Tours de France, a Giro d’Italia, three Tours of Lombardy, two editions of Liège-Bastogne-Liège, a Tour of Flanders, two Strade Bianches, and a world championships (and many more besides) – can even be compared to the Belgian legend at the same age is staggering in itself.
Pogačar may well have a decent way to go to eclipse Merckx’s mark of 11 grand tours, three rainbow jerseys, and 19 monuments (with a complete set of grand tours and monuments to boot). But at this rate, would you really bet against him?
Fine Young Cannibal: Is it time to finally admit that Tadej Pogačar is the greatest male cyclist of the last 50 years? Or maybe, just maybe, of all time?
Halfway through the final lap of Sunday’s men’s world road race championships in Zurich, Eurosport commentator Rob Hatch summed up the Pogačar paradox with one pithy remark: “He may be dominant, but he’s never boring”.
Hatch uttered those comments just as thousands of race reports that had been crafted over the previous two hours, in a desperate bid to capture and distil the hitherto unimaginable, suddenly looked in danger of being torn up, replaced by an Icarian fable of excess and overindulgence.
On the final ascents of Zurich’s jagged, punchy course, Tadej Pogačar – after 100km of suggesting otherwise – suddenly looked human.
(Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
The time gap, which had remained remarkably steady throughout his outrageous, audacious century, suddenly began to wilt, a combination of Pogačar’s own fading prowess (possibly the result of a missed bottle or, you know, the creeping physical effects of a 100km attack at a world championships) and the chase bursting into life behind, spearheaded by the brilliant Toms Skujiņš and Ben Healy.
But, as has been the case throughout 2024, all of a sudden, things tipped back into Pogačar’s favour – the road tipped downwards, the chase stalled, and the Slovenian, his face distorted from its usual boyish nonchalance to one twisted in agony, was the world champion.
Dominant, but never boring. Inevitable, but thrilling.
(Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
With a crack at a fourth Lombardy win still to come, Pogačar’s rainbow jersey triumph capped one of the most remarkable and dominant seasons cycling has ever seen.
23 wins (in just 55 race days). Strade Bianche. Four wins and the overall at the Volta a Catalunya. Liège-Bastogne-Liège. Six stage wins and the pink jersey at the Giro d’Italia. Six stages and a third GC win at the Tour de France. The GP de Montréal. And now the world championships.
But, as has always been the case with Tadej Pogačar, and even more so yesterday, the stats page doesn’t do his superiority justice – it’s the manner in which he wins, or more to the point, annihilates his opponents.
And… away (Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
We saw it at Strade Bianche (arguably the prototype for his Zurich zenith), we saw it at the Giro and the Tour, and we saw it again, with over 100km still remaining on Sunday – at first a speculative, exploratory acceleration that soon morphed, as Remco Evenepoel and Mathieu van der Poel were caught napping, into a daring all-out, do or die assault.
Even the man he sought to emulate by winning the Giro-Tour-Worlds ‘Triple Crown’, Eddy Merckx, would have blushed at the thought of launching with 100km to go, bridging across to the break, and going solo with 51km left, as the finest bike racers of his generation (and in the case of Van der Poel and Evenepoel, possibly any generation) scurry behind.
(Ed Sykes/SWpix.com)
Which is why, on a late September Sunday in Switzerland, Tadej Pogačar confirmed what we have all suspected for years.
The half-century long search for the Next Merckx is over. Now, at the age of 26 and with plenty of objectives still left to conquer, a new question has emerged: Can Pogačar become the greatest male cyclist of all time?
Or, with pink, yellow, and rainbow jerseys safely tucked away in his wardrobe, is he already there?
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Jetmans Dad "Food delivery riders in particular are riding overpowered 'eBikes' that are basically mopeds … powered only via the throttle without pedalling at significantly more than 15mph. Problem is they look like normal bikes/ebikes and not like mopeds so that is what people describe them as." Indeed, mistaken identification of e-motorcycles as bicycles is a significant problem because different regulations and training apply, so different enforcement. Even worse are the illegaly modified e-motorcycles that are not operated as such, without training, insurance and compliance generally. Zero hour employment contracts and employers taking no practical responsibility make it worse yet. Then there's the health impacts on customers that fall on taxpayers through the NHS.
I might be cynical about Police re-organisations but how many new senior officer posts will be created in this re-organisation.
I have to put it back into mode eight so rarely that I will have to open up the manual. Normally when I stick it on the bars when I had to send my r4 back to Hope. Or if it seemed to go a bit weird. Can't remember the last time.
I have nothing but praise for my helmet mounted Exposure Axis, running eight years now. Battery only does two and a bit commutes now, so I'm going to either upgrade to the Diablo or see if they will upgrade the battery. If they'd released their STVZo road/4k lumens when your giving it some going downhill off road light I would have bought it first day. Mode 8 for me, low low, good mid and top high, decided after a couple of weeks of use and I've never changed. I use the button or the tap function (Tap 2 for me) to cycle through the power levels. Exceptional helmet light. The button is it's weak point, but very livable, I am glad of the tap function. It can sometimes take a few presses to get the flashing bit with its press and hold, but not for too long because that's off.
Hard to see who replies on any thread. I only visit the site a couple of times a week as it is not usable.
People who want to travel safely in a 20 mph area, so that no motor vehicle tries to overtake them, need to be capable of 20 mph so get no assistance at all from a legal e-bike that provides 15.5 mph. So the e-bike regulations are broken because they encourage unsafe overtaking by impatient drivers (5 mph). In 30 mph roads, the 10 mph difference would still allow safe overtaking to be completed in short distances. So the low speed 15.5 is less safe in practice not safer.
I have been doing some cross-checking between my records and the police dataset How do you do that? The spreadsheet has been designed to ensure that you can't. There's no unique code for each incident, so why haven't they included that? There are many incidents dated from the same location on the same day by the same despised reporter category (cyclist) for the same offender category (such as 'car'). The great majority of intended (as usual in these misleading 'databases', it's not the real outcome) outcomes is the entirely useless 'warning letter'. Is there anybody out there who believes that the average police officer could rouse either the wit or the willingness to determine whether the offender has received a warning letter previously?! Some people will be receiving numerous such letters to throw in the bin, which encourages them to repeat the offence. As for the claimed 'positive outcome'!- only the most deluded could believe that
I pretty much have stopped bothering. I also find when I come to the site it loads the previous days page and I have to refresh to see today’s front page.
I regularly submit reports to A&S Police, and keep detailed records of what I have submitted, and the responses. I have been doing some cross-checking between my records and the police dataset. I'm afraid correlation is patchy at best. So, I am not confident in the dataset's accuracy. Further, where I can be fairly certain of a correlation, it's been largely warning letters issued for very clear video evidence of hand-held mobile phone use whilst driving. No wonder I see so many doing so. They have nothing much to fear. :o( Should I keep bothering?
That was a reply to Hirsute by the way, which I naïvely assumed would appear on the thread underneath his comment given that I clicked the reply button on his comment. The Admins really need to sort this, and various other problems, out before people stop bothering.
52 thoughts on “Fine Young Cannibal: Is Tadej Pogačar the greatest cyclist of all time? Eddy Merckx thinks so; “Not normal” world champion’s 100km “stupid attack”; Flimsy new bike racks ignored; Michael Woods eats gel from a box with a spoon + more on the live blog”
Pogacar has every chance of
Pogacar has every chance of ending his career as the greatest ever but I really don’t think we can say he’s “already there” when you look at Merckx’s incredible palmares: 5 Tours, 5 Giros, a Vuelta, three rainbow jerseys, 64 GT stages, nine other jerseys from GTs (points and mountains, not counting the combination as that doesn’t exist any more), 7 Milan-San Remo, 3 Roubaix, 2 Flanders, 5 L-B-L and 2 Lombardia. Four (!) times winner of three monuments in a year. Still a bit of catching up to do for Pog, though of course if anyone can, he can.
The thing is Merckx started
The thing is Merckx started hard winning a little later in his career. Pogi is only 26 and is equivalently ahead in terms of major victories. If he carries on his current trajectory and stays free of injuries, he will emulate more of Merckx’s records in the next five years, if not most of them. Even if he starts to fade after that, you would imagine he would still be capable of adding to his palmares well into his thirties.
Matthew Acton-Varian wrote:
I don’t think that’s correct, before he turned 27 (in 1972) Merckx had already captured three Tours and three Giros, two WC road race titles, five Milan-San Remos, two Roubaix, a Flanders, two LBL and a Lombardia. He’d also won pretty much every major stage race available then (Paris-Nice, Catalunya, Dauphine, Paris-Lux, Romandie etc) before he turned 27 apart from the Tour de Suisse, which he waited until 1974 to capture, the slacker. He’d taken most of the classics by then too.
So the score for Merckx by the time he turned 27 was six GTs, two WCs and eleven monuments, compared to Pogacar’s current score of four GTs, one WC and six monuments. Of course Pog doesn’t turn 27 until September 21, 2025, so theoretically he could draw level with Eddy at the same age (apart from in worlds, because that’s a week after he turns 27) but he would have to win two out of the three of next year’s GTs and all five monuments, which is asking rather a lot even for a man of his undoubted genius.
I wonder if he’ll have go at
I wonder if he’ll have go at the hour as well one day?
Cyclo1964 wrote:
You wouldn’t bet against him but one would suspect probably not, the road riders who go for the hour are usually more the puncheur, heavier types (even Eddy was a hefty 74kg in his racing days). I can’t think offhand of any recent holder of the record who was under 70 kg. There is no doubt that with his w/kg ratio and sustained power he could have a good crack at it but I think maybe he would have to put on extra muscle weight which would then handicap him in other races. Also, track riding is quite a skill and as far as I’m aware he has never raced on the boards – again, nearly every record holder I can think of has had a successful track background as well, Indurain’s the only one who springs to mind who didn’t. Still, the lad has a bit of history in terms of tearing up the record books, so…
Rendel Harris wrote:
He had, previously, talked about putting on some weight at some point to go for Paris Roubaix, so…
I hadn’t heard that, maybe
I hadn’t heard that, maybe both things he might think about towards the end of his career then. I know he said recently he’s not interested in the Tour de France record but I take that with a very hefty pinch of salt, I think he’d love to be the first man to get six, so he might want that out of the way first. However, the way he’s going at the moment he’ll have that in his pocket before he’s 30!
“First I want to win the
Source: https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-24-september-2024-310485
Yes, I knew he had said he
Yes, I knew he had said he wanted to have a crack at Roubaix, but I hadn’t heard that he said he would look to gain weight to do so.
Shouldn’t read too much into
Shouldn’t read too much into a short quote (and I haven’t listened to the full interview), but it does also make it sound like a full set of monuments might be a priority. And (it’s all relative!) is arguably more controllable than completing or adding to his GTs.
Definitely one of his aims,
Definitely one of his aims, although I can’t see that they would really cut into his GT plans too much anyway, as he’s showing this year he’s more than capable of winning monuments and one or more GTs in the same year. Roubaix is the only one that could present a serious problem if he does decide he has to gain weight for it…though if he skipped the Giro and put on 5kgs for Roubaix at the beginning of April he’d have nearly 3 months to lose it again before the Tour.
Thing is, Merckx was on the
Merckx was on the juice wasn’t he, like most/all were then?
I’m not talking about Pogacar specifically here but in pro road racing, what looks out of the ordinarly or incredible is either a good day and luck or it’s the juice. When a rider looks out of the ordinary for some time .. well, history sort of hints at something. Cynicism isn’t cool but the general murkiness of the sport isn’t either (though perhaps it’s clearing generally).
Pogacer has not broken the
Pogacer has not broken the world track hour record as Merckx did.
kingleo wrote:
Perhaps that comment should include the word “yet” but yes, I know, and if you actually look at what I wrote on this thread I said I didn’t think he would necessarily attempt it as it’s nearly always taken by heavier, more muscular riders than he. It’s hardly regarded as an important benchmark for greatness in road racing though, if Pogacar ends his career with more monuments and GTs than Merckx I don’t think people will be saying “ah, but he never took the hour record.”
I would like Pogacar’s rivals
I would like Pogacar’s rivals to be planning how to beat him, and straining every sinew to do it.
Instead we get MDVP saying ‘isn’t it nice that he won’.
Attitudes have changed. Yes,
Attitudes have changed. Yes, once upon a time rivalries were ugly, and so were the tactics used. You were isolated within your team bubble and didn’t focus on anything else. Your ideology was to be inwards because that’s all that mattered. You weren’t allowed a personality. Nowadays with how different team operations are, and the presence of social media and everything else, even the strongest of rivals not only have a sense of respect, but comradeship. There is still a burning desire to win, but not at the expense of the mind.
A number of sport physchologists believe that the negativity of mental games could easily stunt a rider’s performance, especially if thing’s were not going exactly to plan. A more positive and relaxed environment collectively pushes the athletes further to the limits of performance, even in the event of something going wrong.
Anecdotally I noticed that a
Anecdotally I noticed that a number of Team GB Olympic athletes across various disciplines seemed to be perfectly happy in post-event interviews with their bronze medal or lower placing. It may be that those particular athletes had outperformed or were simply realistic about their form, but I did wonder if it also pointed to a shift in psychological preparation. Not expressing a view on whether it’s good or bad; just noticeable.
What was different before? I
What was different before? I don’t recall cyclists in general behaving that differently in the past from the way they behave now, or not having personalities.
The praise for Pogacar is
The praise for Pogacar is thoroughly deserved but only a few days ago a young woman lost her life. As a parent of somone of a simillar age the fact that Muriel Furrer’s palmares ended with diffinative full-stop before she had the chance to begin puts everything else into perspective. Yes I know what her family said but I can find little joy in this particular show having gone on.
If there’s one thing I
If there’s one thing I thought we’d learnt in the last decade, it was that having a vote of something doesn’t settle it “once and for all”.
Steve K wrote:
I think we need to call a plebiscite on that!
You’re only saying that
You’re only saying that because you lost.
Remember, pro cycling isn’t
Remember, pro cycling isn’t just road, there are other disciplines – and Tadej even admitted MvdP would probably lap him in a CX race……
If he can win a World Cup/ World Championship off-road, then he’s in contention for GOAT status; currently, he’s the best all round ROAD cyclist.
By the way, can’t let this
By the way, can’t let this live blog go by without a “chapeau” for the “Fine young cannibal” headline, very good!
UK woman, 96, gets suspended
UK woman, 96, gets suspended sentence for causing deadly crash
June Mills lost control of her Vauxhall Corsa, killing 76-year-old Brenda Joyce and injuring Jennifer Ensor, 80
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/sep/30/uk-woman-96-gets-suspended-sentence-for-causing-deadly-crash
brooksby wrote:
I was just reading that. She immediately surrendered her license and she did plead guilty, so at least she recognises the folly of her continuing to drive.
However, the 5 year ban on driving is ridiculous – are they expecting a 101 year-old who hasn’t driven for 5 years to be at all safe?
hawkinspeter wrote:
I agree.
But it is unfortunate that she didn’t recognise the folly of her continuing to drive a little sooner. It might appear that she hadn’t been up to the job for a while…
brooksby wrote:
Maybe some kind of driver re-testing is required so that at least drivers can get some kind of feedback.
I still think that having insurance companies fit black-boxes that measure some driving metrics such as smoothness of driving would be able to detect and report big changes in driving ability. It could be valuable in detecing early onset of certain diseases as drivers would brake later and harder when their vision/concentration/anticipation/reactions start to decline.
hawkinspeter wrote:
My simple suggestion to eliminate “pedal confusion” in automatic cars. Place a vertical divider between the two pedals, and require the driver to press each pedal in turn when prompted before starting the car. Or at least the brake. Yes, they now have to drive with both feet, but I don’t think that’s a big problem.
andystow wrote:
I’m not convinced about that – the issue isn’t really the controls in cars, but declining abilities in humans. I’d also imagine that someone used to driving a manual car may suddenly get into trouble when they have to brake and find that their usual method of moving their foot from one pedal to the other no longer works.
Also, I can attest after my
Also, I can attest after my teenage attempt at left foot braking (thankfully on an empty road) that if you’re used to driving a manual (but don’t hold a racing licence) your left foot probably isn’t subtle enough for the brake pedal.
hawkinspeter wrote:
I assume the Judge, understandably IMHO, was satisfied that Mrs Mills has no intention of ever driving again regardless of whatever disqualification was imposed (or indeed even if none was).
Whilst Judges are afforded some discretion, they are also required to sentence in line with the Sentencing Guidelines. A (minimum) five year disqualification is mandatory. So the Judge had to include that, whether or not he actually felt it was necessary. Imposing a longer disqualification, when not obviously indicated by the sentencing guidelines, may therefore have been of dubious legality, and have served no real benefit. (And, in the unlikely even Mrs Mills is around to reapply for her licence after the disqualification ends, she would be required to pass an extended retest).
OnYerBike wrote:
I was more criticising the sentencing guidelines than the judge. As you say, it’s moot as Mrs Mills isn’t likely to want to drive again.
The guidelines should allow lifetime disqualifications for people that have caused the death of others due to their poor driving. I fail to see why drivers should be given a second chance when they’ve denied that to their victim(s).
I certainly agree that
I certainly agree that lifetime disqualifications should be an option.
But I don’t mind giving people second chances. What I don’t like is giving people third chances, fourth chances, fifth chances etc. But the current justice system seems perfectly happy to do that too. Things like the “exceptional hardship” loophole seem completely unjust to me (https://www.cyclinguk.org/press-release/human-cost-exceptional-hardship-loophole-needs-close-says-cycling-uk).
OnYerBike wrote:
There’s plenty of scenarios where people are not given second chances due to the seriousness of their failing. Doctors can be struck off, lawyers disbarred, pilots permanently grounded etc if they are at fault for a serious incident. Why should drivers be exempt from the consequences of fatally poor driving?
I think that being found at fault for causing someone’s death through careless/dangerous driving means that you are not suitable to hold a driving licence ever again.
City of York Council with
City of York Council with some typical victim blaming nonsense about ‘being seen’. Thankfully we have Kidical Mass on Sunday; something which might actually make a difference to safety on the roads.
https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/24614998.children-urged-stay-safe-cycle-school-week/
The obligatory ‘also drivers
The obligatory ‘also, drivers should…’ after putting all the onus on the cyclists
The key part of being seen is
The key part of being seen is that there is somebody looking.
And the issue isn’t even that
And the issue isn’t even that drivers aren’t seeing people on bikes. It’s that they see them then drive dangerously around them. I share my commute with a load of kids going to millthorpe school and the way parents in cars drive around them is unreal. I’ll stop telling my children to ride on the pavement (which one of them is legally allowed to do) when drivers give them room.
Sure, I just think that in
Sure, I just think that in general changing the behaviour of drivers is the most significant way that cyclist safety can be improved. Instead of focusing on what cyclists should be doing to keep themselves safe, the focus should be on what drivers should be doing to keep others safe.
I’ve seen it a number of
I’ve seen it a number of times where drivers expect groups of kids on bikes to hop up on to the kerb as they (the driver) come down the road on the opposite side due to parked cars on their side. They really do seem to think they have priority over the kids on bikes.
Hey road.cc, who won the
Hey road.cc, who won the women’s elite and u23 titles?
Or, as has been pretty obvious, you don’t give a flying duck about women’s cycling unless it involves an english rider or some tragedy?
“………local business
“………local business owners have complained that the latest phase of the project, which will run through some commercial areas, will cause disruption during the cycle lane’s construction, while questioning whether the scheme would really encourage more people to cycle.”
Commercial areas, like shops? Which seemingly always do much better after a cycle lane has been installed?
All projects cause disruption during construction, but I bet they don’t complain about new roads.
The evidence that properly designed cycle facitlities result in more people cycling is overwhelming, and only a fool would argue against it.
So, 100% completely confected, artificial, invented reasons for opposing it, but Swansea council fold instantly. We have to do better.
Meanwhile: two young men who
Meanwhile: two young men who deliberately drove into a cyclist and on another occasion a pedestrian (both on the pavement…) get 6 and 8.5 years – GBH. Recorded themselves laughing and one fled the country to avoid prosecution. So doesn’t seem like they’ve got contrition on their minds… no mention of driving bans?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr54r1y3qq5o
Still nothing about the women
Still nothing about the women’s races, 5 hours on from my original post.
Why the silence? I guess road.cc is run by misogynists. Pretty pathetic.
dubwise wrote:
Given that those 5 hours were basically ‘after hours’, I’m not sure it’s surprising there was no change in that time – it’s not a 24 hour live blog.
A magnificent display. A fine
A magnificent display. A fine and exciting women’s too, in atrocious conditions.
The next ones in Rwanda, I understand it will be very safe…
Petition to ban ‘dangerous
Petition to ban ‘dangerous toys’
https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/petition-to-ban-dangerous-toys/
Just the other day my
Just the other day my daughter used one of those same e-scooters to get to work (she doesn’t drive). In broad daylight. She made it safely & on time. The horror.
Cars also facilitate antisocial activity & crime and are dangerous toys etc etc…… And speeding fines are a stealth tax apparently – you know, a way of “The Man” making money. Looking forward to the petition….
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e81qv784go
brooksby wrote:
I think someone should educate him about Capitalism and how almost anything can be “a way of making money”. Also, he’s complaining about how he and three other pedestrians were hit by a scooter rider who didn’t have a helmet – it’s the victims that are supposed to be wearing a helmet.
Well, I’m sure there are some
Well, I’m sure there are some who are not emotionally or mentally equipped for scooter use.
However while I’m ambivalent about the latest “new toys” myself – just wait ’till the petitioner finds out about the other dangerous toys you can find cruising the pavements: lorries, vans, buses, LOTS of cars, electric motorbikes … even the humble mobility scooter is apparently a major source of casualties to others.
Pogacar is not as good as
Pogacar is not as good as Fausto Coppi – look at his achievements; he lost several years of his cycling career because of World War 11.