A woman whose horse had to be put down after it was frightened by a group of sportive riders in Sussex said that cyclists had no respect for other vulnerable road users.
Jo Flew and her daughter Joanna were out for a horseback ride on June 23 when they happened upon the route of the Etape de Sussex along Daleham Lane.
When they came across about 20 cyclists, Jo's horse kicked Joanna's in fear and broke its leg.
Jo told the Sussex Express: “We knew a cycle event was taking place but we had no idea what time. On our way home it became apparent that it was happening.
“A few bikes raced past which was OK as our horses were used to them. But then looking behind us there was suddenly a large number in groups of about 20, but only seconds apart.
“As they came past our horses became very frightened. We felt like we were being swallowed. This caused my horse to kick out at the bikes but instead it kicked my daughter’s horse, Willow, in the leg.”
She said that although the riders were screaming and the horse was clearly injured, none of the riders slowed down.
“I could not believe the bikes were still pushing through," she said.
"Two very kind ones stopped, dismounted and came to help. I was in so much shock I couldn’t work out even how to use my phone.”
When a friend from a nearby stables was summoned to come and help, Jo said she was subject to abuse from the riders.
She said: “The girl had huge difficulties getting to us as she was coming head on into the path of the cyclists who, again, had no respect for other users. She asked them to let her through as she was going to an accident but was verbally abused.”
The horse was eventually put down at the side of the road.
Jo said the cyclists “should have more respect – they are in racing mode, nothing else seems to matter.”
Rupert Rivett, from SRS events which staged the Etape de Sussex event, said: “We always tell our cyclists to slow down if they see horses, and they nearly all do.
“The last thing I want to do is add fuel to the flames, and I desperately want to say that horseriders and cyclists should work together to ensure safety on the roads. Everyone is entitled to use these roads; cyclists, motorists, walkers and riders. I would not like to say either way who was to blame.
“One of our riders was a policeman and he gave us a clear-eyed view of what happened. What we do not want to do is get on the bandwagon accusing cyclists or vice versa.”
He also insisted that none of the riders would have verbally abused anyone, and instead would have been calling out to warn the others of their presence.
63 thoughts on “Horse put down after it was scared by sportive riders”
The horse rider seems
The horse rider seems understandably confused, saying bike riders didn’t slow down but also that they stopped. Sounds like it was probably pretty confusing and a genuine accident. If only it was easier to close roads for mass rides.
Fucking idiots. If you come
Fucking idiots. If you come up behind horses you slow right down and pass wide, you call back and signal for others behind you to slow. When people start riding road bikes they should learn how to act on the roads.
Its skill thats going to the
Its skill thats going to the wall mate
:”( http://road.cc/sites/all/modules/smileys/packs/Yahoo!/crying.gif
I don’t think that too many
I don’t think that too many people treat Sportives as races is helping anyone.
And any cyclist who passes horses at speed is an idiot, saw this ten years ago at a charity bike ride and the cyclist who didn’t slow down when approaching a group of horses got a LOT of abuse from the other cyclists.
If we as a group want to be
If we as a group want to be given space on the roads we have to show that to others as well.
A genuinely shocking story. I would like to think this is a minority who would behave like this.
Stedmonkey wrote:If we as a
Want to be given space? by law we have to be given space, funny how “cyclists” are lumped together but generalisations don’t exist with other road users…
I was on a sportive put on by
I was on a sportive put on by Rupert Rivett/SRS events in March. My first sportive on the trike.
I saw a couple of riders flying past horses and although the horses or riders didn’t seem to bothered. Its not nice to see. The majority did slow down though.
My experience was to slow right down after I met in with the first horse and it was rather spooked by me, the rider said the horse was alright, it had just never seen anything like it and was spooked by something strange.
After this I stopped for every horse that I met, which was another 4 coming towards me. The riders were very thankful. I also came across a pair of horses while I was on a downhill. I pulled right out and made the riders aware I was there by dabbing my brakes, which made a little squeak. They waved me past.
The final horse I came across was while I was struggling up a climb, the rider came barrelling past me and asked if I had a tow rope. Then turned the horse to face me so it knew I was a person and not some random car. She was very nice and told me how far from the top I was and that it was downhill after that.
Its all about respect and I feel for the owners of the horse.
As for the abuse that the driver got from the cyclists. I do not condone it, but if it was anything like the lanes I was on, it would not have been nice to come across, most likely a 4×4 and horse box. But to abuse the driver is uncalled for. As long as they had room to pass.
Agree with many others above.
Agree with many others above. Our club seems to have a good relationship with local horse riders and ride leaders know what to do. Sportives, well you get all sorts.
I do worry that the sportive culture is not doing the public image of cyclists very much good. When I’ve done the Dragon Ride, the spectacle of discarded gel wrappers, people riding 5 abreast up the climbs etc. saddens me.
There’s certainly an argument
There’s certainly an argument that says if you can’t control your mount then you shouldn’t be on the road. We’ve sent riders home from a club ride when they failed to demonstrate reasonable bike handling skills.
jonathing, a horse is a
jonathing, a horse is a living thing, sometimes they get spooked for no apparent reason.
Like most cyclists want space and respect from cars, cyclists can not fail to do the same for other user groups.
Could pull the roads aren’t there for cars thing to say that most roads we use exist for pedestrians and horses, they were the original users after all.
I came across a woman on a
I came across a woman on a horse yesterday and she was about 200m ahead of me.I stopped pedalling , pulled over completely onto the other side of the road as it was quiet,and slowly freewheeled past.The horse raised it head,looked at me,then carried on.
I then got a load of abuse from the rider about my overtaking.I turned the bike around,rode back and said that if she was not capable of controlling the horse she should not be on the road.She said not to come any closer as her horse would ” give you a good kicking “.
To put it mildly,i pedalled off rather annoyed.
joeegg wrote:I came across a
For what it’s worth, I was taught to go wide and KEEP PEDALING so the freehub/wheel doesn’t buzz as you pass.
Having ridden for a long time
Having ridden for a long time (even when it was unfashionable!), road raced, time trialed, toured, ridden sportives etc, I can honestly say that in my opinion that the average sportive is made up of the very drivers who cause cyclists the most hassle.
Does no-one these days have any road sense at all?
Bigfoz wrote:Having ridden
I agree. I see so many riders on these sportives that don’t have any basic road awareness. It makes a me wonder how more people are not killed out on them. I hate seeing the discarded wrappers too. From what I can tell most of these clueless types are not with cycling clubs, seem to have picked up the sport recently, and generally wouldn’t worry anyone with a hematocrit of 14. I get annoyed seeing these guys clog up the roads with no sense of others – whether that be cyclists, motorists or horse riders.
However, it seems that all is not what it seems with this one – the statement about the policeman suggests that for legal purposes both sides are not being put forth for the general public to eschew.
Sounds like the cyclists
Sounds like the cyclists behaved like morons.
And Sportives are not races. If you want to race, enter a race,and pin a number on your back.
Roastie wrote:Sounds like the
I’ve seen sportives with numbers recently. I did a charity ride with numbers recently. I’m not sure it’s helping break the misconception.
The charity ride had a pretty good briefing and marshals patrolling the course, which was good.
a.jumper wrote:Roastie
I’ve seen sportives with numbers recently. I did a charity ride with numbers recently. I’m not sure it’s helping break the misconception.
The charity ride had a pretty good briefing and marshals patrolling the course, which was good.— Roastie
Most large sportives now, you wear numbers on your handlebars, the simple reason. When it comes to the official photographer publishing photo’s. It makes it easy for the rider to search their race number
I only took part in one
I only took part in one sportive ride, the number of total f888ing idiots taking part was amazing, no respect for anything or anybody, as a cyclist I would vote to ban them.
She does say that it was her
She does say that it was her own horse that coursed the injury,maybe the horses we’re to close together.just glad nobody got hurt.If her horse had kicked a rider someone could of been killed.not sure what the point of a cyclist stoping would have been unless they were a vet.seems like it was the volume of bikes not the speed/closeness.you cant put limits on the number of road users.if your on the road you have to expect traffic
She knew an event was
She knew an event was happening but not when. Seems like it would have been a good idea to find out.
Sad as this is isn’t true to
Sad as this is isn’t true to say that with the temperament of horses that this could have happened at any time on any road?
The quote from the organiser “One of our riders was a policeman and he gave us a clear-eyed view of what happened. What we do not want to do is get on the bandwagon accusing cyclists or vice versa.” is interesting for what it doesn’t say rather than what it does
Aside from the main issue
Aside from the main issue here…a horse gets *killed* because *it broke its leg*??
ffs. And we aren’t allowed to euthanise people in extreme pain who *want* to die.
andyp wrote:Aside from the
Horses are large, heavy creatures – you can sometimes splint a clean break, but if it’s a complex fracture putting the horse down is often the only real option. Keeping a horse in a sling to keep the weight off the leg for several months often leads to them going downhill quickly. Just FWIW.
Horses have to be able to
Horses have to be able to stand on all four legs. They have poor circulation in their legs and need all four feet on the ground to keep their blood flowing properly. If they don’t, tissue starts to die off.
This is why they’re destroyed.
Took part in my first
Took part in my first sportive today and all I can say is that it was pretty clear to me that for the vast bulk of participants it was a race by any other name. Most participants I saw encountering horses were sensible but there were a few who were not going to be put off their stride and hammered on regardless.Horses are unpredictable and dangerous animals when spooked and not showing them respect is very stupid as well as dangerous.
Sigh, i like the idea of
Sigh, i like the idea of sportives but this is just more evidence for me not to take part in them. Small groups, challenging rides for me i think.
Idiots are idiots no matter
Idiots are idiots no matter on two wheels, four wheels or two legs.
As a keen cyclist, all I can say is someone who doesn’t slow down for a horse or pass with due care – as the highway code states – can have no complaints if a car does the same to them.
Thanks again to the idiots giving cyclists a bad name – I’ll think of you next time a driver or pedestrian gives me abuse.
If you can’t ride a sportive properly, don’t ride one.
SirruslyFast wrote:Idiots are
Head. Nail.
Lock the thread.
Two things strike me here –
Two things strike me here – one, it seems sportives cater for riders who maybe ride in the countryside less than others so are not as aware of the correct, safe and sensible way to rode when horse riders are in the road…
Two – drivers kill cyclists in ever increasing numbers and no one (Road CC included) lumps them all in together as dangerous and failing to protect vulnerable road users…
nicstevenson wrote:, it seems
I reckon most people I see cycling in big groups are the middle class, 30-45yo white males who drive executive cars like idiots during the week and spend a few grand on a racing bike but only ride at weekends…
at the end of the day it is cyclists like this that give us a bad reputation.
LegalFun wrote:nicstevenson
And you know this how? And how many cyclists will only have time to ride at weekends?
I am a commuting cyclist by
I am a commuting cyclist by and large, and when I am on the converted railways/cycle paths near my home, I regularly see some club rides. They can all to often be seemingly inconsiderate of the other cyclists on the path, to the extent that when they are coming towards me spread across the path I have to call out to them to make room. Which they then do but not by much, they usually then shout a greeting as they pass. It seems to me they are using wherever they are as a velodrome not a right of way, this needs to change. My sympathies to the horse owner and the little girl.
Presumably as this is an
Presumably as this is an organised ride, carried out with insurance cover, and the riders caused the outcome – the destroying of a horse, there is a civil case likely to come from this, and consideration of whether a traffic offence of some kind has been committed, although it would be difficult to bring to courts as the individual riders cannot be identified.
Road racing requires a licence, but sportives and charity rides – can Road CC enlighten us? Most club rides are covered by club insurance, and CTC’s cover was up to £5m last I checked, how much cover are sportive organisers required to carry?
A V Lowe wrote:Road racing
sportives and charity rides don’t currently need a licence. personally i think that will change in the next few years, and the better for it in my opinion.
insurance? i’d be surprised if public liability cover for a sportive was less than £10m, but i’m not sure what the legal requirements are. whether it would cover an incident such as this? hard to say. I doubt they’d want to pay out, I’ll say that. They never do. And it’s far from cut and dried by the sounds of things.
I do think that sportives are
I do think that sportives are races for the average rider, which is why I am quite happy to pay to enter closed road events and get ideal conditions. The idea of riding competitively; overtaking or taking turns and racing lines on open roads is crazy and asking for trouble. If it is on open roads I might as well just go for a Sunday morning ride on my own wherever I want to go and give horses a wide berth.
It does seem that a minority
It does seem that a minority of participants in sportives are actually wanabee racers but simply don’t have it. So they pay a lot of money to ride a sportive and then pretend they are “racing”. A few years back I stopped to help out a lady cyclist who had simply run out of road in a small lane and was a bit shaken, only to have all kinds of grief from a group hammering round a blind bend. They had to brake and change course – oh dear! – morons. Luckily I knew the local roads and they were taking a roundabout signed route, guess what, we met about 40 minutes later at a “food stop”, and had a little public chat about manners. Which I suspect did no good at all because they probably just thought “another old fart who knows nothing”. They were all from a large and well known London (I think) based club, and did nothing to enhance the reputation.
as far as I can tell, we seem
as far as I can tell, we seem to have heard only one side of this sad story so far.
Put a timing chip on anybody
Put a timing chip on anybody and they will try to go as fast as their little legs will take them. The worst part is, most new cyclists are keen to try this racing lark out if they have ever watched a professional race.
To echo earlier comments, I don’t think this is what sportives should be about at all. They should be about meeting up with other cyclists, socialising, participating in a fun group ride over a challenging distance at your own pace, with the added benefits of signposting, support and sustenance provided by the host organisation.
Leave the timing chips to those who wish to obtain racing licences and enter certified events, and these sorts of unfortunate road rage stories will hopefully be a thing of the past.
Cyclist dies on road.
Cyclist dies on road. Everyone shrugs shoulders and says RIP.
Horse breaks leg and is put down by vet. ALL HELL IS LET LOOSE.
If only there was the same reaction when a cyclist is injured or killed.
Mountain goat wrote:Cyclist
PS If it was a motorist who
PS If it was a motorist who had caused this, it would never have reached the papers.
Mountain goat wrote:PS If it
These lycra-clad thugs are a
These lycra-clad thugs are a menace to all… It’s the same story on main roads… They have no respect for anyone or anything… Not even the law..
#MENACE
This is more of a general
This is more of a general comment on sportives/group riding than relating to this incident. As others have said there is not enough verifiable fact to give an opinion either way.
Club cycling, weekly leagues etc. are pretty much the only way to prepare folk and teach them how to act properly in groups riding on this scale (not that I’m saying it definitely will in all cases – as others have pointed out an idiot is an idiot, and some clubs are better than others) but this sportive culture seems to bypass that whole learning curve completely, shunting inexperienced “heads down” commuters, many of whom are decent individual riders with good awareness and bike control – after all you often need those skills not to become a statistic in rush hour traffic – straight into big group organised rides where they become a danger to themselves and others because they don’t even know that they don’t have a clue. IMHO “open admission” events like these – where you are [b]guaranteed[/b] a high proportion of riders inexperienced in groups – should be either closed-course or off the public highway.
Aww, did you get lost on your way to the Daily Mail? Or did they dispatch a wee troll for our entertainment?
The problem is, like in all
The problem is, like in all walks of life, you get some right numpties taking part who care little for anything else. You just have to look at this forum to see some of the comments directed at other users and cyclists to see that.
Mind the title is a little bit confusing, i had a picture in my mind of a rider slamming into a horse and giving it a heart attack.
In the end we all have a responsibility when using the roads and whilst vehicle drivers will say otherwise (the usual crap about excise licence, insurance etc etc) the more we, as cyclists, behave correctly the less people can complain.
Well, if I wanted to
Well, if I wanted to something to provide confirmation bias for my prejudiced ideas as to the sort of person who does a sportive and the sort of riding that sportives encourage, this would probably be it.
How would cyclists feel if cars or motorbikes undertook an unlicensed race (yeah, yeah, ok, it’s not a race, it’s just timed and with awards for being faster, so it’s definitely not a race, just so we’re clear, not a race) on public roads of a weekend?
Bez wrote:How would cyclists
You mean like all the car-based “treasure hunts” that still go on? 😀
I’ve not noticed sportives with awards for being faster, but then I’m unlikely to be in danger of winning any such things, so it wouldn’t form part of my interest in events!
Gkam84 – I think the numbers were mainly for ticking off who’s finished so that no-one was left out on the course (at least on the charity ride I did). Most people fixed them to their seat posts like fins, so they were easy for marshals to spot as we passed checkpoints and the finish, but aren’t seen in photographs.
a.jumper wrote:
Gkam84 – I
Nah, Rupert’s were for handlebars for photographs as we were all given a lanyard with a timing stamp thing, you had to scan it at certain timing stations and then at the end, its scanned into the computer and gives you an instant finishing time and your name goes up onto the timing screens at the finish event
Quote:If you can’t ride a
Thing is that they don’t actually *know* they’re doing anything wrong.
They’ve followed everyone else – taken their brains out – and there’s a pack mentality that develops. Add to that the general lack of thinking required (everything signed, junctions marshalled, food provided) and you end up with head down hammer mode.
Try this little experiment – ask a Sportive rider where they’ve just ridden. Names of villages, landmarks etc. Bet you anything that they won’t have a clue. Head down and hammer – no idea of where they’ve been, the scenery or anything. That’s quite sad really.
More rider education is what’s needed. Not necessarily the extra complications and costs of licences.
How about some clear,
How about some clear, mutually agreed guidelines for both horse riders and cyclists about how to share the road? As a cyclist in a rural area with no experience of horses except as other road users, I’d find this useful. Personally I take the approach of slowing down and making my presence known before passing slowly, but I’ve no idea if that’s the best approach.
I also think that all organisers should issue sportive-specific guidelines on road use covering, for example, passing horses (in both directions), riding in large groups, etc. I know that will be teaching experienced riders to suck eggs (don’t use that expression if speaking to a German, by the way), but many sportive riders don’t have much experience of his sort of stuff and I bet we could all do with a bit of a reminder about good practice.
lukea-d wrote:How about some
There is clear guidance in the Highway code which all road users are supposed to adhere to. The problem is that it is is largely forgotten.
I find it funny how people
I find it funny how people elitism comes out with stories like this.
Everyone here wants people to cycle to reduce congestion and motorised road traffic but as interest in cycling increases (especially with sports cycling), all people here seem to do is moan about them.
The amount of bollocks being posted in this thread with elitist accusations backed with anecdotal evidence is astounding.
No-one here can comment on this story because the evidence is conflicting and even the woman whose horse was destroyed has contradicted herself. Until a more fuller report is posted (Im awaiting the organiser publishing the side given by the policeman that was taking part), all everyone is doing is spewing their prejudices.
zanf wrote:I find it funny
Agreed. Many people just don’t have the time to join clubs and enter licensed road races regularly. If you are a weekend cyclist the sportive scene is a way of testing yourself a couple of times a year. It is a bit disingenuous of some posters here to say that people ‘shouldn’t be going fast’ in these events as this is the first thing you would do and your definition of fast is probably faster then theirs. Experience is a wonderful thing, but it must be gained; snobbery won’t help.
zanf wrote:Everyone here
What have sportives got to do with reducing congestion or motorised traffic? They add to both.
There’re a fair few elitist
There’re a fair few elitist comments in this thread. Fact is, arrogant idiots will rise to the top in any situation. Just because you have a ‘number pinned to your back’ and are in a road race doesn’t give you any more right to be a dickhead, and certainly I’ve seen some total dickheads in races (exactly the same comments levelled against these sportive riders applies to many freshly minted cat4s). Go to the time-trial forum and you can find similar discussions about ‘nutters’ cutting blind corners to save a few meters and a fraction of a second. The red-mist descends…
Sportives are not races, but they are timed, and often have time limits or threshold times/standards. Although many riders will be aiming just to finish, I can see why some entrants would be pushing themselves to their limit just like any other road race/TT, and good luck to them, so long as they aren’t a danger to others and show some consideration to those around them. Same applies to strava-junkies. Same applies to club chain-gangs. Same applies to you and your mates going for a thrash around local lanes. Same applies to everyone really
quite disgusting for any
quite disgusting for any riders, in a sportive or otherwise, to totally disregard other road users’ in this manner. Gives us all an even worse name than we already have …
As a fairly reasonable
As a fairly reasonable standard rider I find horses probably the hardest things to go around on the roads.
I take the approach that speed isn’t necessarily the issue, as long as I’m freewheeling past (no sudden stamping on the pedals) and give a very wide berth then I’m doing my duty of care to the rider as well as getting out of the way of anything coming the other way.
Slowing to a stop and then having to suddenly ‘power up’ if something comes the other way is surely far worse than a responsible, clean, ease off freewheel through.
British Horse Society
British Horse Society guidance for Horse riders and cyclists is fairly readily available on the interwebs
http://www.bhs.org.uk/~/media/BHS/Files/PDF%20Documents/Safety%20leaflets/Cycling%20Guidance%20leaflet.ashx
Largely common sense, don’t creep up in silence, call out, ask permission to pass, if in a large group split up, et cetera. All common sense around large animals that are highly strung and hard to control. Sadly a rare commodity for town dwellers who usually only otherwise encounter horses from within the safety of their tin box on wheels.
And far too many sportive riders/weekend warriors ride with the same mindset they use when they drive.
It seems to me that everyone
It seems to me that everyone is in the wrong here.
Sportives are basically BS. If you want to race, then race. Race entry is about half the price of sportive entry and although you need a race licence the cost all evens out over the course of a season. If you don’t want to race and just want to ride for fun or to challenge yourself just get your bike out and go for a spin. Want to know how fast you are? Get a stopwatch. I just don’t see the point of sportives apart from to make money for the organisers.
Horses are another issue. I encounter horses a lot whilst on the road in the area that I live. I’m always very considerate and 9 out of 10 times have no problems when I meet them on the road but sometimes they seem to get spooked very easily, moreso by bikes than cars. Too many times the rider seems to have less than full control of the animal and things start to feel dangerous. We all need to be considerate but when we start debating details such as whether to pedal or coast when we go past them we have to consider if the balance of responsibilty is really what it should be.
So what’s the answer? Ban Sportives? You may as well, they’re junk anyway and do nothing for the sport of cycling or the promotion of utility cycling. Ban horses from the road? This seems a bit heavy but maybe it would be good to see some standards established before horses and riders take to the road (maybe the same could be said of cyclists).
Sorry, I’ve gone a little off-topic here….
Matt eaton wrote:Sportives
I can see the point of them. You can do a much longer ride, not in the wind all day, on a route you don’t know, with marshals and mechanics to back you up. The few using them as pseudo-races should be stopped , but how?
a.jumper wrote:I can see the
A multitool, a puncture kit and a map or a phone, job done. Do people really need marshals and mechanics?
Bez wrote:a.jumper wrote:I
Need? No, but they’re nice to have sometimes and can make for a much more relaxed ride, knowing you’ll get round it somehow.
If you carry tools to cover all eventualities, it soon gets heavy, and phoning for recovery can mean quite a long wait… and I’m sure most of us have experienced inaccurate/out-of-date maps taking us off-course into some pretty hostile roads. Organised group rides can help avoid both of those problems, so I can see the attraction. Riding socially sometimes is much nicer than always riding alone, too.
I’m disappointed to read that some sportives are publishing results in time order with awards. When is a sportive not a sportive?
Having only ever ridden 1
Having only ever ridden 1 sportive, my preference would be to just go out and ride. In their defence, I would say that they are a good way to discover new rides and regions but the timing business is nonsense as it turns it into a pseudo race and for some, they leave their brains in the car park when they set off. If you want to time it, use a stopwatch/garmin/strava.
When I punctured on the sportive, countless riders whizzed by asking if I had everything I need. Kind but not very genuine -imagine if I had said no ?! I had a similar experience later when I stopped to help someone with a broken chain…. all it tells me is that the culture of the sportive is not quite right.
On horses we should remember that they are vulnerable road users like ourselves. There are plenty of people who want the roads clear of cycles and and horses (something I do not endorse). The horse racing industry also employs quite a few people and sometimes horses have to be taken on roads -eg Epsom. All I can say is that extra special care should be taken around young stallions and kicks can be fatal.