Welcome to Wednesday’s live blog, with Jack Sexty, Simon MacMichael and the rest of the team.
Passers-by lift car off injured Wirral cyclist; Ethan Hayter signs for Team Ineos; Argon 18 and Astana part ways; Velolife wins Cycling Café award; Goldsmith on Hammersmith Bridge closure; Stevenage cycling crackdown + more on the live blog
All today’s news from the site and beyond…
Wed, Nov 27, 2019 22:22
SUMMARY
27 November 2019, 22:22
Dutch cycling stats
A striking 80% of Dutch youth (age 12-17) cycle to places (school, park, shop, friend’s) at least three days per week.
This does not differ between males and females; each of whom spend an average of 150 minutes cycling per week.
More facts and figures: https://t.co/TarohVLN1e pic.twitter.com/hHCLNYNSV9
— Dutch Cycling Embassy (@Cycling_Embassy) November 26, 2019
27 November 2019, 22:22
Another for the 'bloody cyclists jumping red lights' file
Edinburgh cyclists need to stop cycling on the pavement. pic.twitter.com/IrH5rVZuaS
— Dan Weatherly (@danweatherly) November 23, 2019
27 November 2019, 22:22
Police crackdown on dangerous cycling in Stevenage
Officers from the #Stevenage Safer Neighbourhood Team joined forces with the Stevenage Borough Council Town Centre Warden to tackle anti-social cycling in the Town Centre.https://t.co/TnNIeqNtjL#StevenagePolice pic.twitter.com/dFAUmp45it
— Stevenage Police (@StevenagePolice) November 25, 2019
Stevenage is the latest town to launch a ‘crackdown’ on dangerous cycling, stopping anyone “riding a bike where they shouldn’t be” between the hours of 9am and 3pm. Officers from the Stevenage Safer Neighbourhood Team joined forces with the Stevenage Borough Council Town Centre Warden to tackle what they said was ‘anti-social cycling’ in Stevenage town centre, and insisted that Stevenage is still “cycle friendly”. Neighbourhood Inspector Simon Tabert said: “Stevenage is a very cycle friendly town and a vast number of residents use the cycle ways to get around in an environmentally friendly way. However a small percentage of cyclists insist on riding through the pedestrian areas of the town centre where cycling is banned.
“This understandably results in a large number of complaints to us. Cycling in pedestrian only areas is extremely dangerous and we are committed to tackling the issue. We will continue to monitor the town centre in this way.”
Meanwhile in Oxford, the Oxford Mail report that the city council still say cycling is banned on Cornmarket Street and Queen Street, but a public space protection order which would have allowed them to fine rule breakers expired in January.
Nigel Chapman said: “Oxfordshire County Council’s Traffic Management Order governing cycling is still in place in Queen Street and Cornmarket Street.
“The County Council remains responsible for enforcement.”
Are dangerous cycling crackdowns a sensible use of police resources? Let us know your thoughts…
27 November 2019, 22:22
One Pro Nutrition launch vegan protein bars
One Pro was launched in 2018 by former England cricketer Matt Prior and the now defunct One Pro Cycling team, and their latest creation is a vegan protein bar. Each one contains 17g of pea protein isolate and pea protein crispies with 14g of fibre to help you feel full. The vegan chocolate used is also said to have a lower GI than standard chocolate meaning there’s a slower rise in blood glucose.
The bars are £2.59 each or £29.99 for a box of 12, and come in raspberry and chocolate or peanut and cacao flavours. The website is here.
27 November 2019, 22:22
GT Bicycles Partners with Gary and Craig Turner on Limited Edition ’79 BMX Cruiser
GT Bicycles recently released a modern version of the iconic 1979 26” BMX Cruiser frameset to celebrate the brand’s new partnership with original GT Bicycles founder Gary Turner and his son Craig. There will only be 100 of the limited edition bikes on sale, off-road.cc have all the details here.
27 November 2019, 22:22
Brooks launch new Cambium colourways
More product news in the run up to crimbo, and you can now get Brooks’ classic Cambium saddle in Octane or Bronze Orange colourways to match up with the bar tape, grips and backpacks in the Natural Reflections range.
All are available to buy on the Brooks website now, with the Cambium C17 priced at £110.
27 November 2019, 22:22
Farming business capture tailgating cyclist on camera
@CyclingScotland @CyclingEdin @SpokesLothian @Cyclesouthedin 1/2 today I witnessed a cyclist tailgating one of our tractors and trailers through Winchburgh to increase his speed. Tractor travelling quickly and completely unaware of the cyclist. This is extremely dangerous. pic.twitter.com/Wiiaj4a033
— RM & JF Seed (@RM_JFSeed) November 27, 2019
Whoever is behind the RM & JF Seed twitter account said the tailgating was “extremely dangerous”, and continued in another post: “This must be highlighted and discouraged, very irresponsible. As farmers, we are often blamed by cyclists for large machinery on roads, etc. This is probably the most reckless road use I have ever seen.”
We can think of more reckless road use examples, but even so the rider’s actions are definitely on the daft side.
27 November 2019, 22:22
Zac Goldsmith talks about proposals for temporary bridge and impact of its 'closure'... as plenty of people cycle past
Transport Minister @Nus_Ghani came to Hammersmith Bridge yesterday to discuss my proposals for a temporary bridge. I am delighted that 3 Transport ministers are now backing the campaign. If re-elected I will continue to work within government to get this done. pic.twitter.com/QcW2jRx4aF
— Zac Goldsmith (@ZacGoldsmith) November 27, 2019
We think what Goldsmith means is that the bridge is closed to motor traffic, which many residents have welcomed as it’s currently much quieter and safer for cyclists and pedestrians.
Goldsmith, the Conservative candidate for Richmond and North Kingston, has been campaigning for a temporary bridge while the main one is repaired; however many have argued this would be a waste of cash, and there have been counter-campaigns to turn Hammersmith Bridge into a permanent cycling and walking bridge.
The irony of Goldsmith and fellow Conservative Nusrat Ghani discussing the bridge’s ‘three year closure’ as people happily cycled past appeared to be lost on them…
27 November 2019, 22:22
Velolife wins People's Choice in Cycling UK's Cyclist Café of the Year awards
Your good news for the day comes from Cycling UK HQ, who have just announced that Velolife has won the People’s Choice category in their Cycling Café of the Year Awards.
It’s fair to say it’s been a rough year for the Berkshire establishment, who have spent months fighting against an injunction brought by the Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead that would have stopped Velolife from using their café as a ‘meeting place’ for cyclists, following alleged complaint(s) from residents.
Finally RBWM withdrew its application two weeks ago, which was hailed as a “victory for common sense” by Chris Bordman and an “insane waste of public money” in the first place by British Cycling.
The Cycling UK Cyclist Café awards are now in their second year, and invited cyclists throughout the UK to choose their favourite coffee and cake haunts. Other categories were chosen by an expert panel including Celebrity Masterchef winner and cycling enthusiast Angellica Bell, with the new People’s Choice category being won convincingly by Velolife – receiving 20% of all votes.
It’s the icing on the cake for Velolife after a tough few months as owner Lee Goodwin explained: “We have been through a lot this year and to be a part of such an amazing community, that is so much bigger than us, is amazing! It’s an honour to serve such an incredible community and we are very proud to be chosen for the People’s Choice Award! Thank you.”
Other winning cafés included The Feed Station in Somerset, The Auction Room in Derry, Lanterne Rouge in East Lothian and Pedal Power in Wales, with South Yorkshire’s Bank View Café winning the Lifetime Achievement award.
27 November 2019, 22:22
Velolife say thanks for award nominations
So incredibly proud! Thank you to all who have supported us. From me, a very special thank you to the Guys and Girls that work at Velolife. They have created a very special Cafe and it would not be possible without them….Thank you. https://t.co/SebzyxV15O
— Velolife Cafe (@thevelolife) November 27, 2019
The staff have “created a very special cafe and it would not be possible without them”, tweeted Velolife.
27 November 2019, 22:22
Sofie De Vuyst suspended after positive doping test for banned steroid
The 32-year-old Belgian, who rides for Team Parkhotel Valkenburg, has been suspended by the team after testing positive for exogenous steroids during an out-of-competition test back in September. De Vuyst has strongly denied any wrongdoing, and according to Nieuwsblad she posted on her Facebook page: “Ethical and responsible ‘clean’ exercise has always been paramount. I am therefore completely in the dark as to how this could have happened. I am completely devastated, the worst possible nightmare has happened to me. People who know me well know how I feel about doping and cheating. I now scream my innocence. I’m going to do everything in my power to clear my name.”
The national Belgian cycling coach Ludwig Willems also expressed his surprise: “Sofie is the last person I would expect this from”, he commented.
27 November 2019, 22:22
Round-the-world cyclist Josh Quigley finally heads back to Australia to finish his ride
GLASGOW AIRPORT
TRAVELLING IN STYLE
I’m coming up in the world!
Chauffeur driven car to the airport today thanks to John Ross and Fidra Travel.
Such a nice touch from them and hugely appreciated.
On my way to Australia!
I have a wee cycle to finish…
— Josh Quigley (@JoshQuigley92) November 27, 2019
The tireless 25-year-old will continue with his mission to finally complete the final three legs of his round-the-world cycle – which will see him ride from Adelaide to Brisbane, then LA to New York and finally Paris to Edinburgh.
Quigley has suffered a catalogue of misfortune in his previous six attempts to cycle the world, such as rendering his passport void in Australia due to back sweat smudging out his photo, and getting his bike stolen in London. Quigley – who aims to raise mental health awareness after surviving a suicide attempt in 2015 – had to fly back to Scotland to get his passport renewed because he wasn’t allowed to fly to the US on a temporary passport. He’s promised to finish his journey before Christmas…
27 November 2019, 22:22
Astana and Argon 18 part ways
The Canadian brand Argon 18 will no longer be the bike sponsor for Kazakh team Astana, with the partnership ending by ‘mutual agreement’. Astana general manager Alexandr Vinokurov said: “It was a great pleasure and honour for us to work with Argon 18. We have spent three fantastic years, full of success and high sports achievements. I would like to thank Argon 18 for the sponsorship, support and contribution to the development of Astana Pro Team. After these three years of close collaboration we part as good friends. I wish Argon 18 all the best in the future and I am sure that the company with see more beautiful successes in their current new projects.”
27 November 2019, 22:22
Why don't cyclists use the cycle lane, part 5,374
Dismount sign now gone, keep right sign in its place. Once again, the ONLY thing obstructing the cycle lane is the sign telling you to get out of it…@OneTrafford pic.twitter.com/gcnyYSFZm3
— P O S I T I V E (@MCRCycleSam) November 26, 2019
To be fair, One Traffford have now responded to say the sign has now been moved to allow access to the cycle lane.
27 November 2019, 22:22
Wout van Aert: "Justice has been done"
Gerechtigheid is geschied. Wat een opluchting! Het geeft me een enorme boost om verder te werken aan mijn comeback en me hier 100% op te kunnen concentreren. Ik wil graag iedereen bedanken die me heeft gesteund, in het bijzonder @VanSteenbruggeP & @iseasportm.
— Wout van Aert (@WoutvanAert) November 26, 2019
Van Aert took to Twitter to speak of his relief at winning a court battle over alleged breach of contract from his former team. Van Aert left Verandas Willems-Crelan for Jumbo-Visma, but the former’s team manager Nick Nuyens said van Aert was contracted to them until the end of 2019; however, van Aert maintained he made the move while the team were negotiating a merger with Dutch team Rompoot.
The tweet translates to: “Justice has been done. What a relief! It gives me a huge boost to continue working on my comeback and to be able to concentrate 100% on this. I would like to thank everyone who has supported me.”
Van Aert will avoid having to pay the 1.1 million euros demanded by Nuyens, and the Nuyens camp will now have to foot the legaal bill.
27 November 2019, 22:22
Express delivery, Deceuninc-Quick Step style ...
Time for episode 2 of "There's never too much @alafpolak1": The Deceuninck – Quick-Step Express – Delivering an @alafpolak1 the same day you ordered one. pic.twitter.com/ojqGy1Rk1O
— Deceuninck-QuickStep (@deceuninck_qst) November 27, 2019
27 November 2019, 22:22
GB prospect Ethan Hayter signs for Team Ineos
One of Great Britain’s top up-and-coming prospects in cycling, Ethan Hayter, has signed for Team Ineos on a three-year contract.
The 21-year-old was previously a stagiaire at Team Sky at the end of the 2018 season and this year, riding for Great Britain, won stages of the Tour de l’Avenir and the Baby Giro.
His greatest successes to date have come on the track. He has won numerous titles at national level and above, and last year helped Great Britain win the team oursuit at the world championships, and also won the omnium at the European championships.
“It’s the best place for me to begin my career as a professional road rider and the best place for me to be with the Olympics coming up next year too,” he said. “This team has lots of riders for me to take inspiration from and there’s so much young talent in the team as this season has shown.”
He added: “The Baby Giro and Tour de l’Avenir are the biggest races at Under 23 level and I won stages in both of them so that was a massive confidence boost heading into the new season.
“At the Baby Giro I was sixth on one of the mountain stages so I was right up there on the climbs and the sprints, so I will have to discover which type of race suits me best. It means I can look at most race profiles and still have a go.”
Team principal Sir Dave Brailsford said: “Ethan is an exciting, young rider who has already had significant success at a more junior level. His signing is a further commitment to our long term-future as Team INEOS.
“We now have a really exciting group of young riders who all have the chance to compete and train with more senior and experienced teammates – and who can learn from them what it takes to win. Ethan is at a key stage of his professional development and we are all excited about what lies ahead for him as part of the Team.”
27 November 2019, 22:22
Passers-by lift bike off injured Wirral cyclist
Passers-by today lifted a car off an injured Wirral cyclist after he became trapped under the vehicle following a road traffic collision in Hoylake.
The male cyclist, whom the Liverpool Echo said was given CPR at the scene, was taken to Aintree Hospital where he is said to be in a “critical condition.”
One local resident said: “I looked out of my window and saw that somebody had been knocked down at the roundabout and trapped under a car.
“I saw about six people lift the car up and put it on its side to free the man. The air ambulance came and landed on the golf course.
“The paramedics put screens up while they treated him. It looked really serious.”
Merseyside Fire & Rescue said: “Firefighters were called to Station Road in Hoylake on Wednesday 27th November following reports that a car had been in a collision with a cyclist.
“Crews were alerted at 1.58pm and on scene at 2.05pm. Two fire engines attended as well as the search and rescue appliance.
“Firefighters made the scene safe and provided first aid alongside members of the public until North West Ambulance Service arrived. The air ambulance was also in attendance.
“The person was taken to hospital for further treatment. Fire crews left the scene at 3.35pm.”
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Jack is group editor across road.cc, off.road.cc and ebiketips, overseeing all three sites in the F-At Digital group to make sure everything’s up to scratch. He’s been writing about cycling and multisport for over a decade, arriving at road.cc via 220 Triathlon Magazine in 2017. He worked across all areas of road.cc including tech, news and video, and also contributed to eBikeTips before being named editor of road.cc in 2021 (much to his surprise). Jack has been hooked on cycling since his student days, and currently has a Trek 1.2 for winter riding, a beloved Bickerton folding bike for getting around town, and an extra beloved custom Ridley Helium SLX for fantasising about going fast in his stable. Jack has never won a bike race, but does have a master’s degree in print journalism, and two Guinness World Records for pogo sticking (it’s a long story).
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Latest Comments
chrisonabike 7 hours ago
"All that's required is an to roads policing" - that's a big all... Although no doubt the "idiots just keep coming" aspect does apply: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9lel2wz93o "Man charged after car crashes through bowling alley" - luckily they only skittled over skittles.
chrisonabike 7 hours ago
Almost any change to roads and streets is accompanied by a period of heightened danger, and in the UK "look out for cyclists" will need to be learned... practically. And over the time it takes for cyclists to become a regular feature. OTOH once (if...) good designs are in and frequent enough such that drivers encounter them AND the cyclists on them regularly (another big if) I don't think they should be much more difficult than a footway to deal with. These things are all over NL - don't have the collision stats but they should. (NL isn't perfect but collecting info on the safety of designs to feed back into better designs as required is part of the "sustainable safety" philosophy - if they're really a killer I think they'd be altering these.)
wtjs 8 hours ago
I'm in the happy position of agreeing with everybody here! I've never considered a bike with a stand, yet I'm impressed by the ingenuity and adaptability of this axle. I tow a Yak Bob with a Robert Axle, employing my El Cheapo Vitus gravel bike and I just have to be very careful where I stop. Hedges are generally a dead loss, and I seek walls, telegraph poles and signposts and generally lean the widest part of the Bob against it. One very awkward task is removing the two steel pins which lock the trailer arms onto the special mounting slots on the Robert axle, and when you have one out, the sodding weight in the trailer can twist the whole caboodle and bend the Bob fitting before you can get the other out and unhitch. I doubt if a stand would help with that. You can imagine that this combo is a real pain when you have to get it over the bridge at railway stations, and it nearly resulted in Merseyrail nearly parting me and the trailer on the platform from the bike on the train. It's a long story for another time. Another axle example recently featured on here, with a 12mm front axle bearing the Herculean weight limit of a monster American front rack.
HoarseMann 10 hours ago
This has nothing to do with the type of bike - it's the type of behaviour that's the problem. Banning the sale of such bikes will not curtail the behaviour. They'll just find another type of vehicle and continue to drive dangerously as there's such a lack of enforcement. I'd sooner see them ban the bally. But really, all that's required is an improvement to roads policing.
AidanR 10 hours ago
The EAPC Bill is welcome, but full of holes. What's to stop an overpowered but temporarily limited e-bike being sold and subsequently delimited? This is often a trivial process.
Sredlums 11 hours ago
@KiwiMike Yeah, in my over four decades of riding all over Europe I've never 'been for a ride in the countryside'. That must be it. Or, and I know this is a wild concept, you just accept that I just voiced my personal experiences and never missed a kickstand, like I wrote. Anyway, what's the big horror of laying your bike on its side for the very few occasions where there is nothing to lean your bike against?
mdavidford 11 hours ago
They may have looked, but did they see?
jackcycles 12 hours ago
Ds2025: where they are going wrong is that they are crushing the motorbike rather than the person sat on top of it. If they did the latter this issue would be solved in less than 24 hours.
Rod Marton 12 hours ago
I came this way today with the car boot sale in operation. There was a marshal at the entrance, who stopped a car turning right across the cycleway as I was approaching. So that certainly works. I think it necessary for the marshal to be there, I couldn't say if the driver would have turned if he hadn't been there but you always have to suspect the worst. Unfortunately there is no marshal at the exit, and there was certainly a car stopped across the cycleway as I was approaching it. But he pulled onto the road before I reached it, and the following car stayed off the cycleway as I went through. Ideally there should have been a marshal there too. On the whole, though, it's a really high standard piece of infrastructure. Just a pity it doesn't extend a bit further.
eburtthebike 12 hours ago
“absolute carnage” So right! Just look at the bodies piled up, blood running in the gutters and injured people limping away. It's a bit of a problem with a road, delaying some people for minutes at a time: it isn't carnage, let alone 'absolute carnage'. Anyone who exaggerates so ridiculously really shouldn't be allowed to comment in public, unless they want to demonstrate their idiocy to all and sundry.
37 thoughts on “Passers-by lift car off injured Wirral cyclist; Ethan Hayter signs for Team Ineos; Argon 18 and Astana part ways; Velolife wins Cycling Café award; Goldsmith on Hammersmith Bridge closure; Stevenage cycling crackdown + more on the live blog”
“A striking 80% of Dutch
“A striking 80% of Dutch youth (age 12-17) cycle to places (school, park, shop, friend’s) at least three days per week.”
Anyone know the figure for the UK? I imagine it’s slightly less, like maybe 2%. A testament to our fantastic transport, health, climate change and community policies.
burtthebike wrote:
And probably a damned sight lower, if you exclude the kids cycling on the pavement. And that’s NOT criticising the kids!
Not a day goes past when I DON’T see a kid cycling to/from school “treated” to terrifyingly aggressive driving … FFS, no way should kids be expected to have the confidence and competence of a long-time, 50+ years, cyclist .
burtthebike wrote:
Firstly the Dutch figures are from at the least 5 years ago and as far back as 9 years as the survey data is from 2010-2014. I take the stats re cycling from DCE with a pinch of salt, the Dutch government released data that tells us that cycling has increased in km by circa 11% (but not journeys) over the last 9 years, at the same time motoring km have increased by a similar number (NL population increased by approx 5%). Modal share of cycling has not increased in over a decade despite the huge numbers of e-bikes in the last few years and many added thousands of km of cycle lanes. Strange how these numbers never seem to add up to more cycling yet the picture is portrayed completely differently!
Also according to that PDF and in the paragraph next to the cherry picked data is this.
“Data from TNO show that the percentage of children and youth meeting the Dutch Physical Activity Guideline (NNGB; to be at least moderately active for at least 60 minutes every day4) show a declining trend for the period between 2006 and 2014.5 For the 4-11 year olds the number of children who are meeting the NNGB has decreased by approximately 10 percent during this period. Furthermore, it seems that the Dutch adolescents are getting more inactive. For example, there was an increasing trend in the percentage of inactive (when a child is at most moderately physically active for 60 minutes in the span of only 2 days5) 12-17 year olds from 2010 (11%) to 2014 (15%).5 These numbers show the increment of the inactivity crisis among Dutch youth. This is a worrying development because of the negative health effects of being physically inactive.
And:
“Although Dutch children accumulate a lot of daily physical activity through cycling, it is not enough to meet the current national physical activity guidelines of 60 minutes of moderate-to-vigorous physical activity per day. Even though cycling is an important component to the amount of daily physical activity, Dutch youth are not cycling to health.”
Less than a third of Dutch kids are meeting the daily physical threshold of 60 mins of moderate activity, children living in urban areas perform worse because the distance they travel by cycle is insufficient to get anywhere near the 60mins of physical activity.
To compare, the % of UK kids getting 60 mins moderate active exercise is 23%boys/20%girls so roughly 21.5% which is 6.5% less than the Dutch despite all these Dutch kids cycling loads, they much all be sitting playing playstations even more than out kids given how much cycling they do
Would we benefit more from allowing kids to cycle places without fear of getting smashed, yup, would the nation be healthier, absolutely, but let’s not start cherry picking stats put up for the Dutch every time as a comparison when their underlying issues are the same as ours and aren’t actually getting better despite their attempts to get more people cycling and the billions € which has failed massively.
“This understandably results
“This understandably results in a large number of complaints to us. Cycling in pedestrian only areas is extremely dangerous….”
Great, so he’ll be able to tell us how many complaints and how many people have been killed or seriously injured.
Edit:
Just read this fb post which sums the situation up brilliantly:
“Jeff Wagstaff Yeah, just think of all the lives that will be saved. Or is it the life. No, hang on, just think of all the minor annoyances that will be saved. I’m sure if it prevents one person from tutting, it’ll be worth it.”
burtthebike wrote:
If it’s similar to the Velolife Cafe debacle, it will be one complaint, no record of numbers or a definition of what “extremely dangerous” is. Followed by a a group of NIMBY councillors who once got held up behind a club run taking vengence as only people with nothing else in their sorry lives can do.
“Extremely dangerous”. My
“Extremely dangerous”. My arse. I’m not in favour of adults riding on narrow pavements or in busy pedestrianised areas, but this type of not-backed-up-by-reality, over-the-top rhetoric just helps drive a wedge between those who use bicycles and those who do not. How would I describe it? “A bit inconsiderate”.
Sorry, but pedestrians have
Sorry, but pedestrians have been seriously injured or killed after collisions with cyclists riding on footpaths. Not many, but they have.
Fining every cyclist cycling on any footpath would be out of balance in my view, but I don’t have a problem with enforcement of dangerous cycling. I don’t want cyclists to be pigeonholed as a bunch of hypoctites.
danhopgood wrote:
Then you enforce that dangerous cycling, not ALL cycling, don’t you?
(I haven’t noticed any instances of “Dangerous motorists are a problem, therefore we will ban all motorists from this area” recently…)
brooksby wrote:
Hmm. I struggle a bit with this. Ok, maybe it shouldn’t be a police priority, but in principle I don’t have a problem with enforcing a pedestrianised zone, even for considerate cyclists. Otherwise where do you draw the line? Can careful, considerate motorists use it too as long as they don’t hit anyone?
quiff wrote:
I’m with you on this one quiff, should it be a police priority? Probably not. But should it be enforced? Yes, otherwise people will start taking liberties with it. Well if cyclists can cycle in a pedestrian zone where they are prohibited from cycling, then someone can ride their motorbike in a safe and curteous manner through the zone, because if they ride at 5mph through it I could easily avoid virtually any incident. No?
I am a firm believer that where the law says something it should apply without favour or fear to all that it is designed to apply. Just because we are classed as vulnerable road users doesn’t mean we are exempt from laws.
brooksby wrote:
Interesting opinion brooksby…..
But am I not right in thinking the reason so many areas in towns are pedestrianised are largely to do with removing the risks posed by motor vehicles?
So unless you live somewhere that there are absolutely no pedestrian only zones then I think you might be telling porky pies……
craigstitt wrote:
I had always presumed that the pedestrianised areas were to make the shopping areas more amenable (not sure if that’s the right word, but you know what I mean) rather than to remove the Dangerous Motor Vehicles.
I’d actually meant more that you don’t see roads being closed to all motor traffic for ever and ever, after there’s been a RTC there.
danhopgood wrote:
Where I live – a town of 26,000 – there’s an online blog run by a local bloke. He markets it as a local news site. He’s very anti-bicycle and often runs alarmist ‘articles’ about people in the town being menaced by them. He really, really hates bicycles. His experience doesn’t match mine ( I walk a lot and see a lot) so I challenged him to come up with hard facts and data to support his views. I gave him a lot of leeway – anything involving a bicycle, death, serious injury or injury and reports of dangerous or even mildly annoying riding – going back as long as he liked. He came up with one report from a newspaper. The article was over 100 years old (you can see how desperate he was to find something). And yet he maintains bicycles are a constant and serious threat to the well-being of the local population. Bonkers. Trouble is, too many people believe his rubbish.
“Trouble is, too many people believe his rubbish.”
Dobbo996,
How pedestrians think of those cycling irresponsibly in pedestrianised areas is a bit like being close passed by traffic when on a bike. I haven’t been hit by a close passing car (yet) but feel threatened regularly….. how things are perceived matters.
danhopgood wrote:
Exactly. You can argue that the risk of serious injury is lower when hit by a bike than car, but I’m not sure that’s adequate justification for running the risk of incidence.
danhopgood wrote:
Read my piece again. I was making a point about rhetoric being used to convince people into believing a danger that doesn’t really exist. He does it because there’s something about bicycles that riles up his fanboys. He likes causing conflict. Think Clarkson.
Wow, amazed they found anyone
Wow, amazed they found anyone cycling in Stevenage to cause annoyance!
On my numerous visits over the years to my home town to see the family I have literally seen a handful of people cycling on the fantastic cycling infrastructure.
‘If you build it, they will still stay in their cars’.
And yes, when I lived there I did cycle to school, on a Raleigh RSW16, which you would think would put me off cycling for life.
Wiltsrider wrote:
Likewise, an avid cross Stevenage commuter in the 90s and 00s. No one else on the network allowing me to race across the town only emerging to road level to look at the signs (the cycle routes have minimal wayfinding). Currently teaching a mate to cycle and using the Stevenage inf as a resource. Evidence of commuters using the cycle parking at the stn but otherwise – minimal use.
On the matter of tailgating – to help with my speed training I used to tailgate the Pizza Hut moped riding delivery guys who use the Stevenage cycle routes. 30mph in the dark is thrilling – not all of the delivery guys were too happy but some say it as fun.
Samtheeagle wrote:
Likewise, an avid cross Stevenage commuter in the 90s and 00s. No one else on the network allowing me to race across the town only emerging to road level to look at the signs (the cycle routes have minimal wayfinding). Currently teaching a mate to cycle and using the Stevenage inf as a resource. Evidence of commuters using the cycle parking at the stn but otherwise – minimal use.
On the matter of tailgating – to help with my speed training I used to tailgate the Pizza Hut moped riding delivery guys who use the Stevenage cycle routes. 30mph in the dark is thrilling – not all of the delivery guys were too happy but some say it as fun.— Wiltsrider
Presumably your response was ‘well get off the f**king cycle routes then’?
Kendalred wrote:
Unbelievably the Council changed the bye law and allowed mopeds to use the cycle ways, and put up signs to that effect too.
Oh come on, live a little…
Oh come on, live a little… who’s not drafted a trailer…
And I hope the Seed twitterer wasn’t using a hand held mobile to film the cyclist whilst driving another tractor…
The post seems to have been deleted, so I’m guessing the response didn’t go well.
Mmmm, tractor drafting. It is
Mmmm, tractor drafting. It is dangerous, but it’s also a lot of fun. The farm machinery drivers around here have wised up to it though, now they give you a massive berth when overtaking which doesn’t give you the opertunity to tuck in behind them.
On a more serious note, the cyclist is taking all the risk by doing the drafting, they are the only ones that are going to be injured if something goes wrong. If the driver of the tractor behaves in reckless manor, it’s everyone else that is put at risk and not themselves.
carlosdsanchez wrote:
Except when it does all go horribly wrong, you have a road closed for several hours, a tractor driver who is most likely deeply traumatised as are any witnesses and the family of the victim. Front line emergency services personnel taken away from other incidents, cost to the NHS and society as a whole etc etc.
Really, isn’t it one of those things that you so obviously shouldn’t do? Even while wearing a helmet like the rider in the clip.
True story: I was a passenger in a car, the truck in front came to an emergency stop and we did likewise, stopping with inches to spare. The truck then reversed and my friend was too slow to react, the trailer scraped it’s way up the bonnet, compressing the front suspension, one of which exploded before coming to a stop almost level with the windscreen. We weren’t wearing cycle helmets so were lucky to escape unhurt. Truck driver at fault, but I’m pretty sure that only helps with an insurance claim, it doesn’t stop injuries from maiming you or death from killing you.
Mungecrundle wrote:
Mmmm, tractor drafting. It is dangerous, but it’s also a lot of fun. The farm machinery drivers around here have wised up to it though, now they give you a massive berth when overtaking which doesn’t give you the opertunity to tuck in behind them.
On a more serious note, the cyclist is taking all the risk by doing the drafting, they are the only ones that are going to be injured if something goes wrong. If the driver of the tractor behaves in reckless manor, it’s everyone else that is put at risk and not themselves.
— Mungecrundle Except when it does all go horribly wrong, you have a road closed for several hours, a tractor driver who is most likely deeply traumatised as are any witnesses and the family of the victim. Front line emergency services personnel taken away from other incidents, cost to the NHS and society as a whole etc etc. Really, isn’t it one of those things that you so obviously shouldn’t do? Even while wearing a helmet like the rider in the clip. True story: I was a passenger in a car, the truck in front came to an emergency stop and we did likewise, stopping with inches to spare. The truck then reversed and my friend was too slow to react, the trailer scraped it’s way up the bonnet, compressing the front suspension, one of which exploded before coming to a stop almost level with the windscreen. We weren’t wearing cycle helmets so were lucky to escape unhurt. Truck driver at fault, but I’m pretty sure that only helps with an insurance claim, it doesn’t stop injuries from maiming you or death from killing you.— carlosdsanchez
Did you find out why the truck driver stopped and reversed?
carlosdsanchez wrote:
That’s a rather narrow view which doesn’t take account of the effect on the tractor driver who even though they would be blameless in any accident may nevertheless be pretty traumatized by the experience as well might any following traffic. There might even be knock on effects from the initial crash caused by the cyclist endangering other road users although I can’t imagine what at the moment.
It’s not always just about risk to the individual.
That GT…..TAKE MY MONEY!
That GT…..TAKE MY MONEY!
Rick_Rude wrote:
GT needs to offer a 24 version.
I’m taking a wild guess that
I’m taking a wild guess that the VeloLife win is down to weight of cyclists, many of which have probably never even been there, taking a golden opportunity to rub it in the face of RBWM in general and the lone complainant in particular, rather than based on those that have actually been there this year, given the situation and injunctions. My club was one of those threatened and certainly avoided it for a while.
I personally still think it’s over-hyped and over-priced for what it is.
Well done VeloLife, their
Well done VeloLife, their ridiculous chocolate cake is fantastic.
But the danger does exist.
But the danger does exist. One or two people have been killed and seriously injured. If you’re an old lady and a close passing cyclist makes you think you’re at risk of falling – which sometimes results in hip fractures – the complications of which are often fatal – that’s real.
danhopgood wrote:
One or two, well precisely FOUR in seven years, pedestrians are more at fault for their own deaths when colliding into a cyclist.(see the exceprt from the 2018 report into dangerous cycling) The danger comes more from at fault pedestrians AND indeed at fault mobility scooter operators than people on bikes.
Please can you quote the at fault injury numbers for the whole country, I think the last I saw there were 47 serious injuries in the year, how many of them were at fault cyclists the paper didn’t reflect.
On the basis of actual harm done we should ban people on foot from town centres, ban people on foot attending soccer matches, or ban soccer fullstop would be better quite honestly.
Banning cycling and indeed heavy handed police actions is misplaced if we go on basic facts of where the harm in our society is coming from.
” pedestrians are more at
” pedestrians are more at fault for their own deaths when colliding into a cyclist”
That sounds like victim blaming to me and I don’t think is a fair statement regarding the report you refer to.
There are good reasons why cycling is not allowed in some areas. One example :
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2014/jun/11/police-hunt-pavement-cyclist-who-killed-81-year-old-woman-in-oldham
I don’t get your point about banning people on foot from town centres. There are numerous sources of harm to pedestrians – one of which is being hit by a cyclist. In managing risk it makes sense to ban cycling in the highest risk areas and carry out enforcement. That includes areas of some town centres.
I think I know the tractor
I think I know the tractor drafter, I notice he set a KOM through that village this morning!
Great news for Lee and his
Great news for Lee and his staff at Velolife: well deserved recognition!
“It doesn’t make much sense
“It doesn’t make much sense to allow perception of risk to guide decision making as people are notoriously bad at assessing different levels of risk. “
People are indeed bad at assessing risk, but perception does affect decision making . Metormophosing again into a struggling shopkeeper in the centre of Hull, if my old lady customers say they’re scared of coming into town because of cyclists on the pavement, sure as hell I’m going to tell the authorities to do something about it. The authorities may just about still have enough resources left to action that request.
Being scared of young people , regardless of whether they’re “foreign types” (which should be irrelevant) can be an issue, especially when they congregate in numbers. Resources to deal with anti-social behaviour that is what people are presumably concerned about are woefully inadequate and there have been deaths as a result – an incident with a chap trying to look after his car springs to mind. Solutions to that I suggest are bigger than a cycling specific discussion like this should try and handle.
danhopgood wrote:
Again, the answer is to answer the perceived risk with actual statistics.
e.g the little old lady who’s scared of “foreign types ” (“They’re trying to steal my handbag!”) should be either educated or ignored – banning sub-groups from an area due to made up reasons is jsut a ridiculous way of proceding. If there is a large incidence of mugging in that area, then more policing/CCTV is the logical way to deal with it – it’s almost like we pay the police so that people can feel safer going about their business.
It’s also short-sighted to think that cyclists (or indeed “foreign types”) are never customers, so unless the scared old lady spends a LOT of money, it’d be better for the shop-keeper to put up some bike racks and start selling coffee.
If it’s only about perception
If it’s only about perception, then “foreign types” is probably incredibly relevant.