The artist Grayson Perry has spoken of why he chooses to ride a traditional Dutch bike – and says that men splashing out on a road bike that is more suited to the Tour de France than a commute are confusing function with status.
The Turner Prize winner, who sometimes dresses as his female alter ego Clare, can regularly be seen riding his green Vogue Elite bike in the streets near his North London studio.
Writing on the website of the auction house Christie’s, he said that he likes the bike, which he ordered online from the Netherlands, “very much.”
“It is a ladies’ bike, so I can wear a dress on it,” he said. “I have a yellow plastic milk crate on the front, which is where I put my shoes and handbag. I really enjoy passing men on racing bikes, particularly when I am wearing a skirt.”
Earlier this week, a poll on our live blog showed that black is Britain’s most popular bike colour, but it certainly wouldn’t have got Perry’s vote.
“I chose the pea-green model because I am a colour campaigner and wanted a bike that was bright. I never buy black — ‘cowards’ black’, I call it. Black clothes on men are an abstention from the conversation.”
On riding his bike, he said: “One of my favourite things is to pedal it about London very slowly on a beautiful balmy summer’s evening, like a kind of two-wheeled flâneur.
“Sometimes I might stop for a pint or two on the way round, just on my own, so I can hear and smell and watch the world go by. I love doing that.”
Dutch-style bikes of the type Perry rides are very much the exception in a city where bike commuters often ride drop-bar road bikes, with some attracting the nickname of MAMIILs – Middle Aged Men in Lycra.
Perry, who when cycling in his guise of Clare is perhaps more of a MAMID – a Middle Aged Man in a Dress – said that men who commute on expensive road bikes are confusing function and status.
“I have done a lot of work around masculinity, and I find that men are very confused about the role of function, which they often think is a way of displaying statusm” he explained. “
So they get a £2,000 bike that weighs five kilograms and would be useful if you were on the Tour de France — but it’s completely impractical for riding to work.”
He added: “A town bike that you leave on a rack needs to be cheap: that’s one of its functions. This bike has a squishy saddle and is very comfortable — but comfort is another function that gets ignored in the man world, because no status is attached to it.”
-1024x680.jpg "“Clear anti-cyclist bias”: Lawsuit filed against Toronto police after cop doored cyclist… before ticketing rider over incident")
47 thoughts on “The artist Grayson Perry talks about his Dutch bike – and says MAMILs confuse function with status”
Grayson Perry of all people,
Grayson Perry of all people, and I have a lot of time for him, should respect people’s right to self expression in how they dress and the image of themselves they are comfortable in projecting.
Race bike, Ferrari, stilleto heels, Goth black or dressing like Ronald McDonald in drag. Do what feels good to you and celebrate in the diversity.
National treasure
National treasure
kil0ran wrote:
Or talentless self promoting poseur whose art leaves me cold. You pays your money and you makes your choice, but the idea that his art and his witterings on masculinity make him an expert on why I buy the bikes I buy is frankly hilarious. He seems to have an opinion for every commission that has a cheque attached.
exilegareth wrote:
He wasn’t necessarily talking about you. But if the cap fits…
This article exists because he’s famous. Famous people get asked lots of questions and the media publish some of the answers. If you want to see someone give an uninformed opinion then just ask a pro cyclist about cycle helmets.
Having an opinion doesn’t make Perry an expert but you don’t have to be an expert to have an opinion, as the comments on this website demonstrate. It’s easy to find spurious reasons to dismiss an opinion one doesn’t agree with but it is instructive to hear different opinions and perspectives and to have one’s views challenged (unless you don’t want to learn anything).
He may have a point – he’s probably thought about it more than most of the people on here and with a different PoV – but I don’t think he’s saying that everyone in lycra on a road bike is doing it purely for status.
And even if he is saying that, does it really matter? Are we cyclists so precious? Lots of people buy £50,000 status symbols to whisk the kids to school etc. Do they get in a lather if someone else who drives a Fiat 500 writes about it?
Great artist…..and Mountain
Great artist…..and Mountain biker!!
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/may/02/cycling-is-the-perfect-sport-for-transvestites
SuperG wrote:
“Cycling is perfect exercise for transvestites as it does not bulk up your upper body and it gives you an excuse to shave your legs”
Well, I beg to differ as I
Well, I beg to differ as I commute on my “race” bike. To me, it’s nothing to do with trying to be a professional cyclist (I’m not really interested in bike racing and don’t follow any races), but I enjoy trying to go fast and I find that my bike works really well for my commuting. It’s got disc brakes and is a lot more aero than non-race bikes, so I finish my commute as quick as I can. The lack of mudguards is probably the biggest drawback, but I tend to not ride when it’s raining, so it just means washing my bike more often.
I don’t get why he’s harping on about masculinity – I’ve been passed by a woman on a “race” bike whilst on my way home and there’s plenty of women riding around on road/race bikes. Just ride whatever’s most fun.
Actually, I’m going to call *bluff* on his comfy/squishy seats – they’re not more comfortable for longer distances.
How does he know? Did he try
How does he know? Did he try it?
I find my roadbike very comfortable as it is set up properly and the more you ride it the more comfortable it feels as you become more flexible which is surely a good thing.
I would have a sore bum on one of those dutch bikes as all the weight falls on your backside rather than distributed evenly between your legs and arms.
As for the lycra, I cycled the first year in normal clothes but I found them bulky and annoying, lycra feels great and I could not give a toss what others think.
did anyone actually ask him
did anyone actually ask him for his opinion
A 5kg bike for £2,000? Where
A 5kg bike for £2,000? Where from?!
I used to commute on my race bike all the time mainly because it was bloomin’ great to ride!
Grayson Perry is a) brilliant
Grayson Perry is a) brilliant and b) probably right, but if you see the amount of motorist commuters in sports cars then impractical and potentially fast can increase fun at the expense of practicality. So what? Get whatever bike you’ll want to ride more than any other.
MonkeyPuzzle wrote:
I would argue the opposite. Most people riding a drop bar road bike in to work do so because they ride a reasonable distance. I know that is the way it is where I work. The people that live in Oxford ride mostly hybrid bikes with “normal” clothes on (not heavy Dutch sit up and beg bikes, or risk getting work clothes muddy) and those who go further want something fast and light ish. Generally that is £500-£1k aluminium road bikes, not ££££ carbon bikes with expensive drive trains that are going to get trashed by commuter use.
As for cars, I would say most people buy 5 seat 4 door cars they don’t need and would be better off with a smaller, lighter 2 seat car. Most people only need one “big” car in the family. That’s what we do. I have 2 children and one big family car and a 2 seat sports car between me and my wife, but we don’t fall in to the “my car” trap, just use whichever we need. We have never felt it was an issue, and we don’t have a boring hatch back with a tiny engine and two seats that are only used to store rubbish. People who know nothing about cars reasonable regularly comment on the sports car being posh or impractical, when they have a newer, more expensive hatch back they don’t need.
I’m going to let this one go
I’m going to let this one go as i like him too much. I guess he has half a point though, but seeing how fast you can go (even if your not that fast) is a big part of the fun with road bikes and sometimes its nice to commute to work on your number 1 bike.
A Dutch bike might be good
A Dutch bike might be good for the flat comute from the outskirts of a town or city, but I will stick with my CX bike for the 40km commute through the South Lakes. If it’s all the same to you GP.
Very much on Kendal’s back
Very much on Kendal’s back wheel here. It appears that Grayson likes a bit of recreational cycling when it suits him.
I do not drive so have to commute come rain or shine. Mt cx bike is practical as it demolishes potholes, grips, has all the right gears and can shift when it needs to.
The best bike for anyone is the one that gets you riding it, so function and style are both imortant to the individual!
It’s good to hear a voice for
It’s good to hear a voice for a more sedate style of cycling, even though i suspect most (incl. myself) of those on road bikes are either (consciously) trading function for fun or have longer distance commutes.
I found cycling in London is a very different experience to cycling in Oxford in all the ways you would expect. London cyclists are not messing about, and when you first start cycling here, it can be intimidating.
BS….I ride my Cervelo S2 (a
BS….I ride my Cervelo S2 (a carbon race bike by his standards) to work every day in summer dressed like Mark Cavendish. I’m an average rider, I’m not pretending to be a pro rider, I just like the kit colours and it matches the bike….I go fast when I feel I want to, I dawdle along when I feel it.
On a nice summers day you cant beat the ride to work in comfortable clothing on a nice bike…..that really is it. I dont judge other people, ride what you want, wear what you want….just enjoy the freedom.
Excuse me one ffing moment!
Excuse me one ffing moment!
What use is a pair of shoes in which you cannot ride a bike with flat pedals? A case of the pot calling the kettle black methinks.
My commuter bike is mental green, with a rack, pannier and drop bars, as befits the distance travelled. What a nice thought, though, to stop periodically along the way for a pint – but I’d end up in a ditch
GP is indeed a national
GP is indeed a national treasure but on this I think he’s falling into the common trap of saying ‘my way of cycling is better than your way of cycling’.
<blockquote>It appears that Grayson likes a bit of recreational cycling when it suits him.</blockquote>
Having seen GP racing at the old Beastway MTB circuit on a Wednesday night I’ll have to disagree with you there. He’s one serious quick rider.
one_bad_mofo wrote:
“I made a few ceramic trophies such as … Slowest Rider With Most Expensive Bike”
He’s basically repeating what
He’s basically repeating what mainstream (‘utility bike’) cycle campaigners have been saying for years.
They don’t have the empathy to realise that not everyone can afford to live within a few miles of work in central london – they are nether millionaires, young with no family who can live in a rabbit hutch, or in a council house.
Therefore people ride for many miles on the most practical form of bicycle to them – a road bike…in the most practical attire – lycra or other cycling specific clothing.
Up to around 7.5 miles give or take 2 miles either way to work then ‘normal’ clothes on a ‘normal’ bike is perfectly practical…more than that and it’s uncomfortable. I know because I’ve tried as have I’m sure many others.
99% of the people I know who do the lycra road bike commute are doing from between 20 – 60 miles PER DAY – a dutch bike couldn’t be more impractical. People need to understand this and move the funk on.
What Grayson misses here is
What Grayson misses here is that “expensive” racing bikes are actually the plebs’ choice. Nice areas that are within Dutch-bike distance of central London are so expensive to live in that they are out of reach of people who can afford to splash a few grand on a nice race bike, to cover that 15-25km commute in a reasonable time.
I love Grayson Perry’s work,
I love Grayson Perry’s work, one of his vases is (Behind armoured glass) in the corridor outside the dept of the place where I used to work. He’s a true visionary and completely barking. The guys a genius. But authough I agree with him about riding a sleek carbon road bike into town with the added option of having it nicked. (I would’nt). Most guys and girls wont be leaving a carbon bike in harms way anyway. I like the way most cycle couriers ride super machines that look crap because they are on them all day and it would be tough to ride a Belgium clunker all day around town.(I cant see many couriers skulking around town in a dress, but who knows, could start a new trend). People will always ride what they want too because the ego gets in the way. Ride Free.
If there’s one thing that’s
If there’s one thing that’s worse than the ‘I hate cyclists’ mob, it’s the ‘I hate anyone who doesn’t cycle in exactly the same way as me’ lot.
HarrogateSpa wrote:
indeed it’s rather what I feel about Sustrans and such, that they feel it’s the wrong sort of cyclist!
Grayson Perry publicly
Grayson Perry publicly pronouncing upon how people minding their own business dress… Oh the irony!
Who gives a monkey’s what
Who gives a monkey’s what Grayson bloody Perry thinks about anything cycling-related? What’s next? Tracey Emin on whether Geraint Thomas should ride the Tour or the Giro? Kazuo Ishiguro on whether helmets should be compulsory or not? FFS.
deanj wrote:
She knows.
I do. He can ride faster and
I do. He can ride faster and with more technique and dedication than I have (not a very high bar, but anyway), so he’s got my attention there.
He has valid and interesting points about identity and cycling, so I’ll read that.
I’d happily hear views on here that offer a different perspective. If Tracey Emin has a view on GT’s season choices she is one Turner Prize up on everyone else on here who has a view.
Drinfinity wrote:
how can you be sure?
like so many others here, I like Grayson Perry. But nobody has to justify their choice of bike to anyone, or their reasoning. If GP wants to ride a Dutch bike, fine; if I want to ride a solid gold Raleigh Chopper, fine. Neither of us is obliged to explain our choice, or has the right to denigrate the other’s.
Drinfinity wrote:
I’m going to make the assumption that very many other people can do that as well (no offence!). That’s not a qualification for getting their views published in a dedicated article on a cycling website though, is it?
You’ve illustrated the point exactly. The fact that she is a Turner prizewinner does not mean that her views on anything unrelated to art are more or less noteworthy than any other member of the general population. Otherwise you’re succumbing to a cognitive bias called the “Halo Effect”.
deanj wrote:
Thankyou.
My point was I’m prepared to listen to someone who is a handy cyclist, whose artistic oeuvre is about challenging ideas of masculinity (amongst other things) , when they comment on cyclists and their image.
Plenty of comments from people pointing out to us all they race, or ride a long way to work, but wouldn’t judge anyone else’s ride. But try suggesting on here you have an 11-36 cassette with 52-36 up front, and you’ll be told to man up to get up the hills, or you can’t possibly deserve to go that fast downhill.
So yes, I’ll read something I’ve not read before, as well as a variety of forumites agreeing that van drivers are shit.
Whatever comment Tracey Emin
Whatever comment Tracey Emin had about cycling, it would be a far greater contribution to humanity than anything she has created artistically.
Here in Hamburg people
Here in Hamburg people commute mosty on city bikes or Holland bikes in non-cycling clothes. I guess it works for them, but they usually have pretty short commutes. With 33km each way, every second counts for me and I suspect it would take GP considerably longer on a holland bike. And then there is the issue of sitting around all day in the sweaty clothes you’ve just been cycling in!
Of course GP probably doesn’t have a very busy schedule anyway by the sounds of it. Bit of prancing, spashing a bit of paint around. Home for tea.
Christopher TR1 wrote:
Much the same in many european cities, notably Amsterdam and Copenhagen where, amongst the high numbers of cycling commuters, very few are wearing anything but normal daywear. It does seem to be less of a race. In Copenhagen you also have Green Waves (set at a pace for relaxed cycle commuting) and a properly integrated transport network (e.g. proper provision for bikes on trains) for those with longer commutes.
Imagine the Enbankment set up for rush hour Green Waves. You wouldn’t have to go that fast to match the current head-down-plus-red-lights average speed.
Hmm, I commute on my battered
Hmm, I commute on my battered old MTB. It has a chromo frame (remember those?) with more miles on it than I can recall – I lost track when it topped 30,000 and that was some years ago now. Underneath the dirt it has some nice bits but thieves won’t wipe off the crud to check. I can leave it at the rail station, safe in the knowledge that any bike thieves will target a shinier, newer bike instead.
Yep it’s heavier than a new MTB (let alone a road bike) but it works ok and is comfortable. If people on lightweight road bikes want to overtake me on my commute, I’m not bothered. It’s practical as it has some crappy looking mudguards and a rack.
OldRidgeback wrote:
Something sounds familiar… is it an old Ridgeback?
Duncann wrote:
Hmm, I commute on my battered old MTB. It has a chromo frame (remember those?) with more miles on it than I can recall – I lost track when it topped 30,000 and that was some years ago now. Underneath the dirt it has some nice bits but thieves won’t wipe off the crud to check. I can leave it at the rail station, safe in the knowledge that any bike thieves will target a shinier, newer bike instead.
Yep it’s heavier than a new MTB (let alone a road bike) but it works ok and is comfortable. If people on lightweight road bikes want to overtake me on my commute, I’m not bothered. It’s practical as it has some crappy looking mudguards and a rack.
— Duncann Something sounds familiar… is it an old Ridgeback?— OldRidgeback
Wow, you must be psychic!
🙂
We have several newer bikes in the family fleet and the Specialized roadbike and the Cannondale MTB are ones we all use but what’s nice about the old MTB is that I don’t have to worry about leaving it. A decent lock is sufficient. There are always other bikes that will appeal more to a thief next to it.
C’mon guys, proof read.
C’mon guys, proof read.
“
displaying statusm” he explained. “
“
He has a fair point, one of
He has a fair point, one of the reasons people dont like to ride bikes in the UK is the assumption that it requires all of the ‘kit’.
It obviously doesnt, and seeing waves of lycra clad sports nuts cycling into work puts people off having a go, even though they are no doubt perfectly capable of doing so themselves.
This is less good for us because it remphsises the myth that cycling is a cleeky middle class white man sport.
The number of newbies riding into work trying desprately to clip in and out of clipless road pedals every 50 yards in London does make me cringe sometimes.
I’m not really a fan of his
I’m not really a fan of his public utterances, I just think they get treated as cleverer than they are (I have no opinion on his art, and he doesn’t seem like a bad guy).
I think he’s neglecting the white van/black cab/chelsea-tractor in the living room. The type of cyclist you get is a reflection of the conditions and is in good part a selection-effect (the wanna-be-sporty type is probably more motivated to get out there and risk it, plus the conditions seem to demand at least the occasional capacity for speed, e.g. drifting across lanes of fast-moving traffic to negotiate a gyratory).
I don’t care two figs what type of bike people use or what they wear, as long as the thing doesn’t have an engine (I haven’t yet formed an opinion on e-bikes).
And as for the last bit – the idea that if your bike is ‘cheap’ you don’t care if it’s stolen or vandalised, is clearly the view of someone with a few bob. Even having a ‘cheap’ bike stolen can be a disaster if you are genuinely on a low-income.
He assumes people are just
He assumes people are just getting from A to B. If that were the case, he’d be (kinda) right. I however don’t just commute to and fro, I’m going out for a ride that gets me to and from work.
I’m not riveting it all the time, but I never dawdle. I don’t go in a straight line either, in the morning I may do so but going home I usually take a long detour to get some distance and switch off. My commute is 10km with at least 170m elevation at least and can get as long as 50 (not sure calling it a commute is appropriate then), so lycra and an aero position make a difference between feeling great or hating every second of it. I have a dedicated commuter bike with dropbars, discs, fenders and spike tyres in winter, but I’ll switch to the MTB if I want to detour via the offroad route, or to the carbon race bike if I want to floor it.
In no scenario would a heavy Dutch bike with unsuitable gearing, a position that’s aero like a brick and puts all the weight on your bum, or street clothes be suitable for my commute. If it were 5km and flat to work it might be possible, but I’d STILL prefer having an efficient and quick machine that I like using.
Nobody should ever judge
Nobody should ever judge anyone else for the style of bike they choose to ride or the clothes they choose to wear while riding it.
As for his “cheap bike” comments; it’s £375. Cheap to him. My “cheap” bike cost me £60 off eBay, my kids more expensive Trek Hybrids were £150 each in a sale. A friend recently asked my advice on buying a new bike and when I pointed here in the direction of £200 bikes (a little less if you can find a sale bargain) she quickly gained an interest in secondhand bikes.
Meanwhile others think nothing of spending several thousand pounds on something they use every day and for hundreds of hours over its lifetime. And why should they?
(UPDATE: I recently gave away my £60 eBay bike and set out to buy something better with a budget of £500. £1200 later I’ve got a new bike – it’s not perfect because the components I really wanted were more than 2.5 times my budget, but it’s pretty good for a “cheap” bike. £375 is starting to look cheap.)
inicholson wrote:
Yeah, exactly. The cost is relative to your income. When I bought a bike it was because I was broke and felt I was being priced-off of public transport. It was definitely cheap by his standards, but I was scared it would get nicked because it would have been a real blow to have to replace it.
Equally, if you are a banker on a huge salary it might be perfectly rational for you decide it’s not worth the time-cost of figuring out what’s the most cost-effective bike, or hunting for a bargain, when you could just ask forThe Most Expensive Bike In The Shop and barely notice the cost.
Heck, if the wealthy must blow cash on status-goods, it might actually be that in buying high-profit-margin top-of-the-range road-bikes they are indirectly bringing down the costs of bikes for the rest of us (I haven’t really worked out the economics of that, but high-end things tend to have higher retail markups).
In general I just find Perry’s “so much more secure in my gender than thou” act mildy irritating sometimes. It can come across as a kind of one-upmanship, and, dare I say , a status thing.
Man who wears dresses
Man who wears dresses criticises people for confusing function with status.
Surely, as an artist, GP would understand that sometimes the look of something is more important than how it works.
Zigster wrote:
The irony is that an lightweight aero bike looks like that because it does follow function. I can’t imagine doing 10, 000km a year on a ‘Dutch’ bike. Unfortuntely GP abuses his ‘I have one foot in each camp’ status; the subtext is more demonization of cyclists this time through the ‘toxic masculinity’ angle. He should know better than most that he is an exception. You don’t popularize bike riding by saying we should ride bikes suitable for wearing a dress.