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Live blog: Coach driver convicted of killing cyclist Karla Roman, Porte to Trek-Segafredo, Twitter debate as Kim Briggs’ widow asks cabbies to support dangerous cycling consultation +more
All today’s news from the site and beyond
Thu, Aug 23, 2018 14:20
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Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
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Latest Comments
Tradescant 1 hour ago
@jackcycles I'm not sure my grandchildren got that memo. Cycling should not be just for hardened road warriors.
DS2025 2 hours ago
Chrisonabike There are a number of police forces in England and Wales that are using portable testing equipment already... How effective it is another matter, I haven't looked into the results of failing (I would hope they just seize and crush the motorbike without any faff but I am sure there are appeal processes, promises not to use them on public roads etc).
KiwiMike 2 hours ago
Woah there - a precision-engineered European-made product, with unparalleled adaptability, is somehow a ‘rip off’? Compared to what - Temu? As per the article, most quality through-axles go for £50-60+, but aren’t adaptable and don’t provide any stand or trailer capability. If you want to balance your £3-4-5k suspension or carbon bike, or bikepacking setup on a budget product subject to highly focused stresses, fair play. Cycling’s a broad church.
Dnnnnnn 2 hours ago
@eburtthebike I've found Spanish drivers to be almost entirely excellent around cyclists.
neilmck 3 hours ago
I agree, the study was made after cycle paths that had been introduced in Berlin during the 70’s and 80’s caused a big increase in cycling deaths. It is an interesting study for cyclists to read in order to know what dangers exist at badly designed junctions. Here in Paris we have very few bi-directional paths. The ones I have cycled on have no building entrances or courtyards (so no cars crossing the path) and every junction is traffic lights to prevent accidents.
thrawed 3 hours ago
We have enough regulation. They're running a motorbike without insurance/registration and possibly without a licence, and the punishment for being caught with all that is pretty severe already. The problem is lack of enforcement.
chrisonabike 4 hours ago
In my experience with anything less than one of those serious mid-bike two-foot kickstands, a wall / tree / hedge is the better option, or the bike will sometimes show you the alternative and lie down by itself. Maybe I've got panniers that are just too large and the wrong balance of (too much) cargo though? And of course Edinburgh streets are great at funneling gusts of wind...
chrisonabike 4 hours ago
I agree there's a clear legal line * but I do see something here. Like much tech it's entirely opaque from the outside (without even invoking things like the VW emissions cheating).** I know in NL they have trialled semi-portable "test stations" to check max motor speeds. However with the latest "but there's no money" crisis I can't see that over here. Indeed it's hard to see the police being motivated to do any more roads policing, with this even further down the priority list. Hope I'm wrong... While I guess many of us *would* be fine with EAPCs as a means to attract "non-cyclists" ... perhaps there's an "attractive nuisance" element to this? We're ushering people into an apparently effortless, easy and minimal consequence mobility mode without the "learning experience" of managing a lighter, unpowered machine on roads. And it's still (busy) *roads* where the new power-assisted riders will often find themselves. Not like in more advanced countries where people usually cycle in much safer and more controlled environments. OTOH we should always balance such concerns against "but cars and full-power ICE motorbikes now" though! Number plates, licences and insurance aren't necessarily mitigating that well... * As soon as there are laws games will be played. How long can you be above the "continuous rate power" for? Can we have *multiple* legal motors on one machine? ** Is the power / speed actually regulated by software, and how long will that keep a child armed with the internet from unlocking it?
Zazz53 4 hours ago
And maybe a planning obligation to have traffic Marshalls controlling access out of the site not obstructing the path and restricting it if cyclists are likely to be obstructed …one can hope
Bob Sprocket 4 hours ago
I'll stick to my low rider with Karrimor Kalahari dry bag panniers and Karrimor Kalahari barbag thanks.
63 thoughts on “Live blog: Coach driver convicted of killing cyclist Karla Roman, Porte to Trek-Segafredo, Twitter debate as Kim Briggs’ widow asks cabbies to support dangerous cycling consultation +more”
Only a little thing…Harry
Only a little thing…Harry won Stage 1 of Tour de Yorkshire… 😉 #AllezHarry
climbdg5 wrote:
Yeah I was going to ask how he won a stage in a race that hasn’t happened yet. Fantastic news though – and means my club can now claim to be one that has produced a WorldTour rider which is fun.
It’s a shame Tony Martin is going to Lotto N-L Jumbo next year; Katusha would have had a pretty good basis for a TTT team with Harry, Alex Dowsett and him.
Hmmmmm asking the LTDA their
Hmmmmm asking the LTDA their opinion of cyclists (or anyone not a black cabbie) is almost like asking the KKK their opinion of Barack Obama.
They don’t represent cabbies at all, they are a bunch of hypocritical nutters given too much power. I don’t wanna have a go at this Briggs guy, he’s a had a terrble loss but at some point yeah, his actions *could* end up killing far more people than Charlie Alliston did, although of course he doesn’t mean it that way.
StoopidUserName wrote:
One of these days, we’re going to see an approach to road safety that involves evidence and doesn’t go looking for polarised opinions.
Today is not that day.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Well, we knew as much, didn’t we…
This is basically the Briggs Campaign admitting that they’re not about road safety. They’re just out to get cyclists.
davel wrote:
Yep.
I hope Mr Briggs appreciates that all the mentions of his campaign feature his departed wife and now some of us have come to associate her face with the injustice that cyclists face on the public roads. Did he really intend that or is “his” campaign really being masterminded by the anti-cycling brigade?
What the hell do taxi drivers
What the hell do taxi drivers know about safe cycling? They apparently don’t know shit about safe driving, so why would anyone care about what they think about cycling?
vonhelmet wrote:
My abiding memory of a black cab is in High Holborn.
Fare sticks arm out, driver pulls over into cycle lane to get fare, cyclist in the cycle lane almost runs into the back of the rapidly decelerating cab.
Sorry, Mr Briggs, but this is just a demonisation of cyclists based on one freakish incident involving poor choices by both parties.
Easy way to gain support. Ask
Easy way to gain support. Ask a group who already have a given bias. Similar tactics to Cameron’s last General Election campaign. Promise an EU referendum so the Tory waverers who may have gone UKIP vote Tory and keep him as PM. Don’t give a stuff to the consequences.
Maybe they should run a campaign in the Mail to drum up support, another guaranteed winner. Though to be fair there aren’t many media outlets that don’t promote the anti-cyclist hate campaign.
“Would be nice if EVERYONE
“Would be nice if EVERYONE else did the same. We all have to share these imperfect roads!”
The road (with a glass- and shit-strewn bit of white paint for a cyclelane) to hell is paved with good intentions, courtesy of single-issue campaigns with an agenda and media asshats giving them platforms.
Imagine if Mrs Briggs was
Imagine if Mrs Briggs was instead killed by a dangerous driver, imagine further that she was cycling at the time she was killed. Do we think that he would be calling for new driving laws and getting as much traction?
Mr Briggs is stirring it… and he damn well knows it!
Just to point out that the
Just to point out that the consulation that the Briggs campaign is open to all to respond to. I know I have.
gonedownhill wrote:
This.
It goes beyond cycling and gaps in law. Share it with anyone who would be concerned by an outlier, a statistical anomaly, being used to drive campaigns, parliamentary time and possible law changes.
It’s not going to cut any ice with Mr Briggs, but using his wife’s case in this respect, when there was so much wrong with the CPS approach and police evidence anyway, is terrible knee-jerking. It’s got ‘unintended consequences’ written all over it, and those who’ve jumped on it, who should fucking know better, like Jesse Norman, Heidi Alexander and various rags, are behaving shamefully.
I wonder what Kim Briggs
I wonder what Kim Briggs husband expects taxis to say as he signs off his request to the taxi drivers with “And thank you for the continued support & kindness you show me”. I doubt he thinks they will respond by saying that current laws are perfectly adequate.
How many peds and cyclists do taxis kill and injure each year?
Dear Mr Briggs,
Dear Mr Briggs,
You are asking a group of people who have a much higher propensity than cyclists to kill people, to bring about a law that will make no difference in essence.
Your efforts would be much better focussed on getting the roads policed adequately, ensuring more sustainable transport was accessible, teaching people the green cross code or to use crossings that are available and that things such as mobile phones distract and cause deaths.
Maybe even spend some time with your kids.
Even if you undertook these steps, there would still be at least one bloke with an unsuitable bike and/or an uninsured, speeding, drunk driver likely to kill.
I look forward to seeing you on The Celebrity Love Broter Bake Jungle in the coming years!
From,
Me
And with a single ill-judged
And with a single ill-judged tweet, the Briggs campaign shows itself not to be concerned with the general safety of all road users, but merely yet another sad anti-cycling movement.
I notice he’s taken a leave of absence from Twitter, due to the “toxicity of relations between different groups of road users”. A toxicity which he himself has now contributed to.
Up next, we canvass turkey farmers for their opinion on what constitutes a good Christmas dinner.
Wouldn’t his time and effort
Wouldn’t his time and effort be better spent on campaigns for pedestrians to stop and look before crossing the road ? I know the cyclist was a nob in that case but the whole incident didn’t have to happen.
Pursuing a law change that will get used maybe once a decade and saves nobody doesn’t make sense to me.
I’d rather not have the loss of a loved one in the first place.
I wonder what Mrs Briggs
I wonder what Mrs Briggs would make of her legacy.
Maybe Mr Briggs could bring
Maybe Mr Briggs could bring up the following fatalities, what with the victims having being killed by taxi drivers and the LTA being a taxi driver representative body.
29.12.17 Robert Smith, 67; killed by a taxi driver in Victoria
25.11.16 Unknown, 95; killed by a taxi driver in Ilford
26.01.15 – Hubert Mallet, 25; killed by a taxi driver, Great Eastern Street, Shoreditch.
Source: London.wordpress.com
Or indeed the 354 pedestrians involved in recorded injury accidents with taxis. For reference 237 pedestrians were in recorded injury incidents with pedal cyclists for the same period.
Source: TfL factsheet. Casualities in Greater London for 2015.
Whatever sympathy I had for
Whatever sympathy I had for Briggs is gone, he’s an attention seeker.
As he’s said numerous times, he has no interest in road safety or pedestrians safety, he’s just interested in nailing the 1 cyclist a year that’s involved in a death and to hell with everybody else.
Most amazing thing about the
Most amazing thing about the new Shimano rear mech is the contra-rotating gears. How do they do that?
burtthebike wrote:
That’d be the new clutch mechanism.
I’m pretty convinced Matthew
I’m pretty convinced Matthew Briggs knew exactly what he was doing there.
Glad to see that coach driver
Glad to see that coach driver was found guilty. He sounded like a nasty piece of work.
vonhelmet wrote:
Canlt help but wonder, what if the police had prosecuted him for stopping in ASL boxes just once. Wouldn’t have been that difficult surely.
Grahamd wrote:
Can’t help but think that we’re moving in the right direction here. Should make other twatty drivers think before starting on the route of entering ASL boxes with an attitude like that.
Plod probably could have done more and yes we’ve lost a sister, but more prosecutions we get, the better.
don simon wrote:
I’ve asked Traffic Police, sat in a queue going the opposite way alongside a car stopped in the ASL box, if they were going to do anything about it. They looked at me as if I was asking them to serve me coffee and said it’s not a priority (while they are sat going nowhere, doing absolutely nothing else). They got really arsey with me (as if i’d shat on their laps or something) when I said “So, you’re not going to do anything”. So many drivers, and practically all motorbikers, stop in the ASL in London. I really needs to be socially unacceptable as the people that do it are more likely to break other rules that are dangerous to others.
At least he’s been found guilty of something, will be interesting to see the sentence that might serve as a deterrent to others.
ChrisB200SX wrote:
Its not just in London. I think most motorcyclists genuinely believe that ASLs are for their protection too (and in all fairness I think an argument could be made for that). But I think it’s like one in three cars I see will roll over into an ASL as the lights change, or creep forward into it in anticipation of the lights changing to green. Might be even higher than that. Pretty much every time I’ve used an ASL I’ve been sharing it with a motor vehicle of one kind or another (is that what they mean by sharing the road?).
vonhelmet wrote:
I’m sure Mr Briggs will be petitioning the Coach Union National Transporters Society to crack down on cyclists using the ASL boxes.
vonhelmet wrote:
It’s good to read the outcome, but what happened to the promised follow up to the original court report?
“He is due to be sentenced on
“He is due to be sentenced on 21 September.”
lets guess, lots of the judge ring his hands any saying “no sentences I can pass will bring back the cycling,” followed by a suspended sentence.
How on Earth can Matthew
How on Earth can Matthew Briggs say that he “doesn’t get drawn on emotive issues “? His entire campaign has been based on it!
brooksby wrote:
Precisley this and all previous comments. What sort of utopia is he looking for in his spouse’s memory? The hypocrisy of the campaign is outstanding.
Pushing50 wrote:
It’s not Utopia he’s looking for, if he’s honest with himself. Nobody appeals for LTDA support in even the most twisted of black cabbie’s Utopia. It’s revenge. And who can blame him, really?
What shouldn’t happen is that his vendetta be legitimised, via a campaign, with funding, platforms and parliamentary time.
It’s not Briggs who should be apologising. He should be tucking his kids up in a world where their mother doesn’t exist anymore.
It’s Norman, and Alexander, and those who would waste parliamentary time on this shit and disregard road safety evidence, who need to explain themselves.
davel wrote:
Precisley this and all previous comments. What sort of utopia is he looking for in his spouse’s memory? The hypocrisy of the campaign is outstanding.
— Pushing50 It’s not Utopia he’s looking for, if he’s honest with himself. Nobody appeals for LTDA support in even the most twisted of black cabbie’s Utopia. It’s revenge. And who can blame him, really? What shouldn’t happen is that his vendetta be legitimised, via a campaign, with funding, platforms and parliamentary time. It’s not Briggs who should be apologising. He should be tucking his kids up in a world where their mother doesn’t exist anymore. It’s Norman, and Alexander, and those who would waste parliamentary time on this shit and disregard road safety evidence, who need to explain themselves.— brooksby
Probably the best way to think about it, now you mention it.
I’m not entirely sure how
I’m not entirely sure how this popped up on my front page
https://road.cc/content/news/212194-cyclists-defence-fund-urges-police-review-case-boy-12-killed-while-cycling
The latest I could find is the same page and a crowd funding page seemingly abandoned.
Perhaps Mr Briggs could petition for teenagers not to be on the road.
@davel…
@davel…
I agree with you on that. I just cannot understand how this shit comes to the forefront of peoples concerns when there are so many more dangerous acts being committed on the public highway.
The world has gone politically incorrectly mad.
Pushing50 wrote:
Crusade. His wife was killed by an errant cyclist (how errant is up for debate, and, apparently, for manipulation by shitty Met ‘tests’).
He’s not looking to make the world a better place – he’s looking to make sense of his wife’s death. Perfectly understandable. But MPs and the like need to make sure he isn’t allowed to dribble his vendetta all over parliament and law. At the moment, some are abdicating that responsibility, just so they avoid telling a bereaved husband to sit the fuck down because he doesn’t know what he’s doing.
I’m also looking forward to the highly publicised review into the effects of drivers abusing the ASL in case they’re ‘swamped with cyclists’. Norman, you bellend.
davel wrote:
@davel…
I agree with you on that. I just cannot understand how this shit comes to the forefront of peoples concerns when there are so many more dangerous acts being committed on the public highway.
The world has gone politically incorrectly mad.
— davel Crusade. His wife was killed by an errant cyclist (how errant is up for debate, and, apparently, for manipulation by shitty Met ‘tests’). He’s not looking to make the world a better place – he’s looking to make sense of his wife’s death. Perfectly understandable. But MPs and the like need to make sure he isn’t allowed to dribble his vendetta all over parliament and law. At the moment, some are abdicating that responsibility, just so they avoid telling a bereaved husband to sit the fuck down because he doesn’t know what he’s doing.— Pushing50
Crusades are never really a good idea. The fourth one springs to mind.
Pushing50 wrote:
It’s because cyclists are an out group and can be attacked with impunity by members of bigger gangs and gain kudos for doing so. Most drivers think that they are above average, and find it difficult to admit making a mistake, and it is always the easy way out to blame someone else, and cyclists fit the bill perfectly, as the msm is blatantly anti-cyclist, so their views are reinforced.
Is there any msm which has actually taken Mr Briggs to task, difficult as it might be? I don’t think so, but they all crucified Alliston at length, and were far from accurate in their reporting.
Probably the biggest problem cyclists have is the rabid anti-cyclism in the msm, especially the BBC, which apparently has a ban on mentioning anything positive about cycling, despite the overwhelming evidence and dozens, if not hundreds, of reports detailing the benefits.
burtthebike wrote:
Really? All that live coverage of track cycling, Ride London etc etc is not positive?
Try this: go to the BBC website and in the search field type ‘cycling’. Dozens and dozens of articles, footage, radio talk etc on cycling – very little of it negative. I remember recently a very good coverage of the results of research on cycling into old age – many stories on this over a few days. Biased? I don’t think so.
kevvjj wrote:
Still constitutes bias though – you shouldn’t balance facts with lies (which, to be fair, is the Beeb’s idea of ‘balance’ across a lot of topics, not just cycling).
kevvjj wrote:
My BBC experience is mainly R4, and I have never heard a single article about the overwhelming benefits of cycling in thirty years, but they always find time to attack cyclists or find a negative slant on a cycling story. That would be the same BBC website which has endless articles promoting cycle helmets and maybe one which presents the facts would it?
burtthebike wrote:
Love Radio 4 – can’t say I recall anything anti bike on there.
There’s been a couple of pro cycling plays over the years.
BBC tv shows all of the ride london events – that’s got to be positive as well as a lot of Triathlon coverage.
Anyone remember John Noakes riding (some of) the Milk Race ?
I saw the Lambs on the One Show just the other day plugging their cycling round Britain prog – nobody slagged them off.
I really think you’re misremembering.
A quick google on their site found this : https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=Right%20of%20Way%3A%20Cycling%20and%20the%20City&suggid=urn%3Abbc%3Aprogrammes%3Ab03pjfj3
Will listen to that later.
fenix wrote:
Likewise, a regular R4 listener, I can’t say I’ve noticed much about cycling – positive or negative.
fenix wrote:
I gave up listening to Radio Four. For many reasons (one of them begins with ‘John’ and ends with ‘Humphrys’, but there are a lot of others). But I remember things on both sides of this.
‘You and Yours’ (I think it was) discussing at inordinate length the ridiculous idea of licencing cyclists, just because one hit-and-run cyclist had knocked over a child somewhere, leaving her with bruising. (I note the Beeb paid nothing like as much attention to this:
)
On the other hand, there was More Or Less discussing the health benefits of cycling and concluding (very weirdly) that an hour of cycling adds an hour to your life expectancy. Thus implying you could achieve imortality as long as you never stopped pedalling.
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:
Probably a reference to this study:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/10/12/cycling-add-years-to-life-expectancy_n_8279048.html
Which I think is probably this one:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4504332/
fenix wrote:
doesnt that rather prove the point though, one of the best pro cycling examples you can find from the Beeb is something they made 40plus years ago…
and Id actually argue all the coverage of ride london/track cycling they do is a false positive, because it firmly treats and conveys the idea that cycling is just a sport that only incredibly fit people or professional athletes do.
certainly as a whole of their output when you dig down into their local broadcasting on tv or radio, you find presenters doing phone ins,that wouldnt sound out of place on LBC, that are very anti cycling/pro motorist in tone.
BBC R4 still think it
BBC R4 still think it appropriate to employ and give airtime to one Matthew Parris, who called for cyclists to be randomly decapitated…repeat: RANDOMLY DECAPITATED.. for Christmas entertainment!
They’ll have to put out a lot of pro cycling shows to make up for his continued license- payer funded presence on the airwaves .
Here’s the Grauniad’s take on
Here’s the Grauniad’s take on the BBC’s anti-cycling bias: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2017/nov/17/why-are-cyclists-the-one-minority-group-the-bbc-feels-its-ok-to-demonise
hawkinspeter wrote:
Thank you for the link. An interesting read and so true. I think that I still fancy Naga Munchetty over Peter Waker though!
hawkinspeter wrote:
That does sound like a crappy program but there are a lot of people who think the same – just look at the comments on any bike story in the papers.
I think the DOT needs to do a driver education program. They don’t see a person on a bike as one less car in their traffic jam.
Content on the bbc website
Content on the bbc website might be vastly different to that on the radio or the tv. Same as how the daily mail is a borderline readable newspaper, but the website is a cesspit.
vonhelmet wrote:
Now you’ve gone way too far…
I read a column in the
I read a column in the Guardian about ASLs and how the law on it is pretty vague. It concluded that while it is illegal, it’s definitely not a priority to police it.
I have some sympathy for the
I have some sympathy for the police with not enforcing ASLs as it wouldn’t be clear-cut for them to have an easy time enforcing it. AFAIK it’s only illegal to enter an ASL (i.e. cross the solid white line) when the lights are red, so the police would have to have video or be watching the driver as otherwise the driver could just claim that the lights had turned red before they got a chance to cross the junction.
It’d be nice if they did (e.g. traffic cameras set up to auto-record and auto-fine motorists as they do with speeding cameras), but even to me as a cyclist it’s low priority. I’d prefer they spent more time stopping drivers not paying attention (e.g. on phones) or performing close passes as that’s more dangerous to me.
hawkinspeter wrote:
If the law is unenforceable, then it’s a bad law. They may as well not have them, save the paint.
vonhelmet wrote:
I’d rather keep ASLs and an unenforced (it could be enforced if there was enough demand) law and hope that maybe they’ll do some public education about them.
That’s the other end of it,
That’s the other end of it, of course. I bet the majority of drivers don’t even know what an ASL is or what they’re supposed to do there.
I think most drivers don’t
I think most drivers don’t pay too much attention to the actual roads much.
Many years ago, before ASLs
Many years ago, before ASLs were a thing, I observed a Police motorcyclist in London filter between 2 lines of traffic and when he got to the front he sort of made his own ASL by pulling his bike at an angle in the front of the car of the lane he wanted. When the lights changed he was of course off and away up the road, plenty of space and smooth as you like.
I was really impressed with this manoeuvre; taking a dominant road position, making himself highly visible, maximising his own view into the junction, avoiding creation of a third lane of traffic or having to get into some sort of race off the line to make clear roadspace. I often do this myself when filtering on a motorcycle and even though my bike does not have Police markings no-one has ever shown any anger about it, though I dread the day I stall the bike while pulling away. It undoubtedly is not strictly legal but it certainly feels safer from the motorcyclist point of view.
I don’t ride or drive roads with ASLs. Actual experience might teach me otherwise, but in principal sharing them with other motorised 2 wheelers would not worry me.
The one thing people forget
The one thing people forget is that Briggs was looking at her mobile phone whilst stepping into traffic it wad a 50/50 accident that led to loss of life this happens everyday but because the traffic had defective/No brakes he blames the traffic a warning was shouted she didn’t hear (because she was engrossed in her phone
How many taxis fail their passenger vehicle check and he’s asking their opinion on road safety and cyclists. What a cock.
ciderman_100 wrote:
Not correct.
Alliston did claim this at one point but there was no evidence to support it.
A mobile phone was found on the scene though.