Live blog: Coach driver convicted of killing cyclist Karla Roman, Porte to Trek-Segafredo, Twitter debate as Kim Briggs' widow asks cabbies to support dangerous cycling consultation +more

ciderman_100 wrote:

The one thing people forget is that Briggs was looking at her mobile phone whilst stepping into traffic

Not correct.

Alliston did claim this at one point but there was no evidence to support it.

A mobile phone was found on the scene though.

hawkinspeter wrote:

I have some sympathy for the police with not enforcing ASLs as it wouldn't be clear-cut for them to have an easy time enforcing it. AFAIK it's only illegal to enter an ASL (i.e. cross the solid white line) when the lights are red, so the police would have to have video or be watching the driver as otherwise the driver could just claim that the lights had turned red before they got a chance to cross the junction.

It'd be nice if they did (e.g. traffic cameras set up to auto-record and auto-fine motorists as they do with speeding cameras), but even to me as a cyclist it's low priority. I'd prefer they spent more time stopping drivers not paying attention (e.g. on phones) or performing close passes as that's more dangerous to me.

If the law is unenforceable, then it’s a bad law. They may as well not have them, save the paint.

vonhelmet wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

I have some sympathy for the police with not enforcing ASLs as it wouldn't be clear-cut for them to have an easy time enforcing it. AFAIK it's only illegal to enter an ASL (i.e. cross the solid white line) when the lights are red, so the police would have to have video or be watching the driver as otherwise the driver could just claim that the lights had turned red before they got a chance to cross the junction.

It'd be nice if they did (e.g. traffic cameras set up to auto-record and auto-fine motorists as they do with speeding cameras), but even to me as a cyclist it's low priority. I'd prefer they spent more time stopping drivers not paying attention (e.g. on phones) or performing close passes as that's more dangerous to me.

If the law is unenforceable, then it’s a bad law. They may as well not have them, save the paint.

I'd rather keep ASLs and an unenforced (it could be enforced if there was enough demand) law and hope that maybe they'll do some public education about them.

vonhelmet wrote:

the daily mail is a borderline readable newspaper, 

Now you’ve gone way too far...

hawkinspeter wrote:

Here's the Grauniad's take on the BBC's anti-cycling bias: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2017/nov/17/why-are-cy...

Thank you for the link. An interesting read and so true. I think that I still fancy Naga Munchetty over Peter Waker though!

hawkinspeter wrote:

Here's the Grauniad's take on the BBC's anti-cycling bias: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2017/nov/17/why-are-cy...

That does sound like a crappy program but there are a lot of people who think the same - just look at the comments on any bike story in the papers. 

I think the DOT needs to do a driver education program. They don't see a person on a bike as one less car in their traffic jam. 

Pushing50 wrote:

@davel...

I agree with you on that. I just cannot understand how this shit comes to the forefront of peoples concerns when there are so many more dangerous acts being committed on the public highway. 

The world has gone politically incorrectly mad.

Crusade. His wife was killed by an errant cyclist (how errant is up for debate, and, apparently, for manipulation by shitty Met 'tests').

He's not looking to make the world a better place - he's looking to make sense of his wife's death. Perfectly understandable. But MPs and the like need to make sure he isn't allowed to dribble his vendetta all over parliament and law. At the moment, some are abdicating that responsibility, just so they avoid telling a bereaved husband to sit the fuck down because he doesn't know what he's doing.

I'm also looking forward to the highly publicised review into the effects of drivers abusing the ASL in case they're 'swamped with cyclists'. Norman, you bellend. 

davel wrote:

Pushing50 wrote:

@davel...

I agree with you on that. I just cannot understand how this shit comes to the forefront of peoples concerns when there are so many more dangerous acts being committed on the public highway. 

The world has gone politically incorrectly mad.

Crusade. His wife was killed by an errant cyclist (how errant is up for debate, and, apparently, for manipulation by shitty Met 'tests'). He's not looking to make the world a better place - he's looking to make sense of his wife's death. Perfectly understandable. But MPs and the like need to make sure he isn't allowed to dribble his vendetta all over parliament and law. At the moment, some are abdicating that responsibility, just so they avoid telling a bereaved husband to sit the fuck down because he doesn't know what he's doing.

Crusades are never really a good idea. The fourth one springs to mind.

Pushing50 wrote:

I agree with you on that. I just cannot understand how this shit comes to the forefront of peoples concerns when there are so many more dangerous acts being committed on the public highway. 

The world has gone politically incorrectly mad.

It's because cyclists are an out group and can be attacked with impunity by members of bigger gangs and gain kudos for doing so.  Most drivers think that they are above average, and find it difficult to admit making a mistake, and it is always the easy way out to blame someone else, and cyclists fit the bill perfectly, as the msm is blatantly anti-cyclist, so their views are reinforced.

Is there any msm which has actually taken Mr Briggs to task, difficult as it might be?  I don't think so, but they all crucified Alliston at length, and were far from accurate in their reporting.

Probably the biggest problem cyclists have is the rabid anti-cyclism in the msm, especially the BBC, which apparently has a ban on mentioning anything positive about cycling, despite the overwhelming evidence and dozens, if not hundreds, of reports detailing the benefits.

burtthebike wrote:

Pushing50 wrote:

I agree with you on that. I just cannot understand how this shit comes to the forefront of peoples concerns when there are so many more dangerous acts being committed on the public highway. 

The world has gone politically incorrectly mad.

 

Probably the biggest problem cyclists have is the rabid anti-cyclism in the msm, especially the BBC, which apparently has a ban on mentioning anything positive about cycling, despite the overwhelming evidence and dozens, if not hundreds, of reports detailing the benefits.

Really? All that live coverage of track cycling, Ride London etc etc is not positive?

Try this: go to the BBC website and in the search field type 'cycling'. Dozens and dozens of articles, footage, radio talk etc on cycling - very little of it negative. I remember recently a very good coverage of the results of research on cycling into old age - many stories on this over a few days. Biased? I don't think so.

kevvjj wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

Pushing50 wrote:

I agree with you on that. I just cannot understand how this shit comes to the forefront of peoples concerns when there are so many more dangerous acts being committed on the public highway. 

The world has gone politically incorrectly mad.

 

Probably the biggest problem cyclists have is the rabid anti-cyclism in the msm, especially the BBC, which apparently has a ban on mentioning anything positive about cycling, despite the overwhelming evidence and dozens, if not hundreds, of reports detailing the benefits.

Really? All that live coverage of track cycling, Ride London etc etc is not positive?

Try this: go to the BBC website and in the search field type 'cycling'. Dozens and dozens of articles, footage, radio talk etc on cycling - very little of it negative. I remember recently a very good coverage of the results of research on cycling into old age - many stories on this over a few days. Biased? I don't think so.

Still constitutes bias though - you shouldn't balance facts with lies (which, to be fair, is the Beeb's idea of 'balance' across a lot of topics, not just cycling).

kevvjj wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

Pushing50 wrote:

I agree with you on that. I just cannot understand how this shit comes to the forefront of peoples concerns when there are so many more dangerous acts being committed on the public highway. 

The world has gone politically incorrectly mad.

 

Probably the biggest problem cyclists have is the rabid anti-cyclism in the msm, especially the BBC, which apparently has a ban on mentioning anything positive about cycling, despite the overwhelming evidence and dozens, if not hundreds, of reports detailing the benefits.

Really? All that live coverage of track cycling, Ride London etc etc is not positive?

Try this: go to the BBC website and in the search field type 'cycling'. Dozens and dozens of articles, footage, radio talk etc on cycling - very little of it negative. I remember recently a very good coverage of the results of research on cycling into old age - many stories on this over a few days. Biased? I don't think so.

My BBC experience is mainly R4, and I have never heard a single article about the overwhelming benefits of cycling in thirty years, but they always find time to attack cyclists or find a negative slant on a cycling story.  That would be the same BBC website which has endless articles promoting cycle helmets and maybe one which presents the facts would it?

burtthebike wrote:

 

My BBC experience is mainly R4, and I have never heard a single article about the overwhelming benefits of cycling in thirty years, but they always find time to attack cyclists or find a negative slant on a cycling story.  That would be the same BBC website which has endless articles promoting cycle helmets and maybe one which presents the facts would it?

Love Radio 4 - can't say I recall anything anti bike on there. 

There's been a couple of pro cycling plays over the years. 

BBC tv shows all of the ride london events - that's got to be positive as well as a lot of Triathlon coverage. 

Anyone remember John Noakes riding (some of) the Milk Race ?

I saw the Lambs on the One Show just the other day plugging their cycling round Britain prog - nobody slagged them off. 

I really think you're misremembering. 

A quick google on their site found this : https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=Right%20of%20Way%3A%20Cycling%20and%20the...

Will listen to that later. 

fenix wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

My BBC experience is mainly R4, and I have never heard a single article about the overwhelming benefits of cycling in thirty years, but they always find time to attack cyclists or find a negative slant on a cycling story.  That would be the same BBC website which has endless articles promoting cycle helmets and maybe one which presents the facts would it?

Love Radio 4 - can't say I recall anything anti bike on there. 

There's been a couple of pro cycling plays over the years. 

BBC tv shows all of the ride london events - that's got to be positive as well as a lot of Triathlon coverage. 

Anyone remember John Noakes riding (some of) the Milk Race ?

I saw the Lambs on the One Show just the other day plugging their cycling round Britain prog - nobody slagged them off. 

I really think you're misremembering. 

A quick google on their site found this : https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=Right%20of%20Way%3A%20Cycling%20and%20the...

Will listen to that later. 

Likewise, a regular R4 listener, I can't say I've noticed much about cycling - positive or negative.

fenix wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

 

My BBC experience is mainly R4, and I have never heard a single article about the overwhelming benefits of cycling in thirty years, but they always find time to attack cyclists or find a negative slant on a cycling story.  That would be the same BBC website which has endless articles promoting cycle helmets and maybe one which presents the facts would it?

Love Radio 4 - can't say I recall anything anti bike on there. 

There's been a couple of pro cycling plays over the years. 

BBC tv shows all of the ride london events - that's got to be positive as well as a lot of Triathlon coverage. 

Anyone remember John Noakes riding (some of) the Milk Race ?

I saw the Lambs on the One Show just the other day plugging their cycling round Britain prog - nobody slagged them off. 

I really think you're misremembering. 

 

A quick google on their site found this : https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=Right%20of%20Way%3A%20Cycling%20and%20the...

Will listen to that later. 

I gave up listening to Radio Four.  For many reasons (one of them begins with 'John' and ends with 'Humphrys', but there are a lot of others).  But I remember things on both sides of this. 

'You and Yours' (I think it was) discussing at inordinate length the ridiculous idea of licencing cyclists, just because one hit-and-run cyclist had knocked over a child somewhere, leaving her with bruising.  (I note the Beeb paid nothing like as much attention to this:

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/21/girl-12-seriously-injured-in-hit-and-run-...

)

On the other hand, there was More Or Less discussing the health benefits of cycling and concluding (very weirdly) that an hour of cycling adds an hour to your life expectancy.  Thus implying you could achieve imortality as long as you never stopped pedalling.

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

On the other hand, there was More Or Less discussing the health benefits of cycling and concluding (very weirdly) that an hour of cycling adds an hour to your life expectancy.  Thus implying you could achieve imortality as long as you never stopped pedalling.

Probably a reference to this study:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/10/12/cycling-add-years-to-life-ex...

Which I think is probably this one:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4504332/

fenix wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

 

My BBC experience is mainly R4, and I have never heard a single article about the overwhelming benefits of cycling in thirty years, but they always find time to attack cyclists or find a negative slant on a cycling story.  That would be the same BBC website which has endless articles promoting cycle helmets and maybe one which presents the facts would it?

Love Radio 4 - can't say I recall anything anti bike on there. 

There's been a couple of pro cycling plays over the years. 

BBC tv shows all of the ride london events - that's got to be positive as well as a lot of Triathlon coverage. 

Anyone remember John Noakes riding (some of) the Milk Race ?

doesnt that rather prove the point though, one of the best pro cycling examples you can find from the Beeb is something they made 40plus years ago...

and Id actually argue all the coverage of ride london/track cycling they do is a false positive, because it firmly treats and conveys the idea that cycling is just a sport that only incredibly fit people or professional athletes do.

certainly as a whole of their output when you dig down into their local broadcasting on tv or radio, you find presenters doing phone ins,that wouldnt sound out of place on LBC, that are very anti cycling/pro motorist in tone.

brooksby wrote:

How on Earth can Matthew Briggs say that he "doesn't get drawn on emotive issues "? His entire campaign has been based on it! 

Precisley this and all previous comments. What sort of utopia is he looking for in his spouse's memory? The hypocrisy of the campaign is outstanding.