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Of course drivers need to be responsible and take care but we are in danger of getting a bit high and mighty when police raise issues like this. Since the clocks went back last weekend, I have been commuting home this week in the dark for the first time this year. I am gobsmacked by the number of cyclists I see who have no lights and no reflective gear, often with no helmets either. It's common sense to take precautions and we've got our head in the sand if we pretend all cyclists are taking appropriate steps to protect themselves and others.

@mdavidford was about to ask them if they thought the law should also been changed to ban the LAs from doing that, so as to save money...

@Rendel Harris sentencing is Monday. 15 yrs minimum (not premeditated) but multiple aggravating factors. 20+ feels appropriate

@kinderje Murder attracts a mandatory life sentence, so that can't be changed, although it will be interesting to see what the judge sets as the mandatory minimum term before parole can be considered.

@Gd29 All of those are factors that could be influential however you do not address the fact that the dependent variable has shown a fall against the control variable. If the control variable had fallen at the same rate as the dependent variable certainly that would require investigation, but it hasn't. If we regard 20 mph limits in Wales as an experiment, we can say that the conditions of the experiment were such that only one change was made that didn't affect all of the roads in the experiment and a significant result has ensued from that change. That is evidence. I see nothing to indicate that you want to kill all cyclists, however.

@kingleo yup - nary a bar or local business to be seen I tell you!

@Rendel Harris "Justice is properly done" - maybe! Unfortunately we are yet to hear the sentence and I hope this isn't another 'it was only a cyclist' type.

@Rendel Harris horrific case. Yet only the 6th item on the BBC news website, after an article on the Traitors TV show.

@mdavidford Good point, I meant and should have said conclusive, or proof as you suggest. :)

@Rendel Harris If there are no other variables. Be mindful of those that present such simple arguments as evidence. If there is no consideration for frequency of car usage, frequency of bicycle usage etc. then the stats can only be said "appear to suggest", as correctly stated by the road.cc author. These stats include the era of the post Iran fuel price spike of 40%, where car usage has fallen. Which could skew the numbers unless the stats are adjust by number of journeys, road users etc. For what it's worth I just want to point out potential abuse of stats. Not an opinion on 20mph zones or a desire to kill cyclists as some might contort it to be.