Residents of the Isle of Dogs in London have expressed anger that a local council plans to allow cyclists to ride through the north-south Greenwich foot tunnel.
Despite being a part of National Cycle Route 1, linking Inverness and Dover, cyclists are currently only allowed to walk their bikes through.
Greenwich Council, which is responsible for maintaining the tunnel, says that cyclists should be allowed to ride through at certain times, but Tower Hamlets Council, to whose territory the tunnel links, must agree to this, as it jointly owns the route.
Already, many cyclists choose to ignore the rules and ride through, despite many signs along the route, and locals say this easing of the law will only embolden them.
Some 1.5 million people use the tunnel every year, and at its peak accommodates 250 cyclists an hour.
Without using the tunnel, cyclists face an eight to ten-mile diversion to reach Canary Wharf from south London, although they could also use the Docklands Light Railway, where folded bikes are allowed at all times and non-folded bikes are permitted other than between 0730-0930 and 1600-1900 from Monday-Friday.
“Allowing cycling at certain times would send out a wrong signal to cyclists,” Tower Hamlets campaigning councillor Andrew Wood told the East London Advertiser.
“People tell us they won’t use the tunnel because of dangerous cycling, especially mums with prams.”
A public meeting on the Isle of Dogs agreed to send a deputation to Greenwich Council, complaining that no public consultation or Health and Safety analysis had yet been done.
Cllr Woods, representing Canary Wharf ward, ran a survey on August 1 which found 191 cyclists unlawfully riding through the tunnel in just 50 minutes, while 152 walked and eight ran with their bikes. There were 274 pedestrians in that time, including 31 children, as well as five mums with prams and one wheelchair disabled.
“Cyclists are their own worst enemy,” Cllr Woods added. “A small number of red-light dodgers abuse the system in the streets and we fear they’ll continue cycling in the tunnel.”
Cllr Peter Golds told last month’s Tower Hamlets Council meeting that the tunnel built in 1902 was never designed for cycling.
-1024x680.jpg "“Clear anti-cyclist bias”: Lawsuit filed against Toronto police after cop doored cyclist… before ticketing rider over incident")
32 thoughts on “Isle of Dogs fury that cyclists may be allowed to ride through Greenwich foot tunnel”
Have been through it a
Have been through it a zillion times, with-and-without a bike, and to me it does seem a bit too confined a space for peds and cyclists to share comfortably, to be honest. Can definitely see the case against.
But Cllr Woods really does talk crap. ‘Cyclists are their own worst enemy’…really? How many cyclists are killed by cyclists every year?
This may sound radical, but
This may sound radical, but what about a new river crossing in East london then ? Between Tower bridge and the Dartford crossing there is exist almost no means to cross teh river on foot/by bike. This tunnel (too narrow to cycle anyway), Rotherhithe tunnel (too fume filled for most people to cycle and almost no cars stick to the 20mph limit. Blackwall (no peds or bikes allowed) , and the ferries. London in is dire need of at least one, preferably 2 new crossings between Tower Bridge and the M25. Head west and you can throw stones off one bridge and hit the next.
StuInNorway wrote:
There’s also a tunnel at Woolwich.
A bridge between Rotherhithe and Canary Wharf has been approved.
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/planning-for-the-future/rotherhithe-canary-wharf-crossing
it’s a lot easier and cheaper to build bridges upstream where it’s shallower, and narrower and doesn’t have to cater for large shipping.
ConcordeCX wrote:
Is the Woolwich one fully open now? Last times I was there – ages ago – the entrances were almost hidden behind builders hoardings, and the only reason I even knew it existed at all was due to dimly remembering it from childhood. And the lifts were sealed off so you had to use the stairs. Which were partly in darkness. I cycled through it as it seemed like nobody else even remembered it was there so not much chance of encountering any pedestrians. Kind of unnerving , really.
How come we could once just get on with it and build such things – under the river, no less – whereas now even _thinking about_ a poxy ornamental bridge costs tens of millions with nothing to show for it?
Progress
Progress 🙂
I walked through the
I walked through the Greenwich foot tunnel 6 times this year (3 days during the morning and evening commute). There were plenty of cyclists and pedestrians, and absolutely no conflict.
Ramz wrote:
Were the cyclists cycling? My experience was always that to cycle through it safely (other than at times when there wasn’t anyone much there) you had to go so carerfully that you might as well have walked.
I say, screw it, build another parallel tunnel.
So eventhough “Some 1.5
So eventhough “Some 1.5 million people use the tunnel every year, and at its peak accommodates 250 cyclists an hour” and there has never been an accident they think it is a bad Idea ?
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/cycling_enforcementalleviation_a
Under the FOI:
(a) incidents or accidents (including statistical information and reports)
relating to or occasioned by cycling in the Greenwich foot tunnel;
Whilst there have been reports of thoughtless cyclists, the council does
not have any records of any actual accidents involving mounted cyclists in
the tunnel.
And if you fo get fined it would cost you £1.
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/greenwich/15429724.You_will_soon_be_able_to_legally_cycle_through_Woolwich_Foot_Tunnel/
mum’s with prams are their
mum’s with prams are their own worst enemy – I’m guessing the concept of birth control hasn’t yet reached the Isle of Dogs or south of the Thames
Bad idea both Greenwich and
Bad idea both Greenwich and Woolwich tunnels too narrow. Flattened babies and more bad press for cyclists inevitable. Push your bike through and save energy for carrying it up the stairs at the other end because the lift not working. What both councils should concentrate on is improving the cycle infrastructure at either end of both tunnels, which is abysmal.
What is worst (widest) in a
What is worst (widest) in a confined space? A cyclist cycling considerately or a pedestrian walking alongside a bike? I regularly use a footbridge with ‘No cycling’ signs at either end, yet the equally wide paths leading to the bridge have no such prohibition. I am much less likely to cause inconvenience to pedestrians if I stay on my bike and proceed with care.
I am a regular user of both
I am a regular user of both the Woolwich and the Greenwich tunnels. Although structuraly very similar there is a massive difference in the numbers of people – both pedestrian and cyclist – who use them.
I cycle through the Woolwich tunnel almost every time as the times and the level of traffic mean that it is safe to ride through. This is despite of the twat who decided to side-step and try to shoulder barge me shouting “Your supposed to walk you f*****g c**t! Can’t you read the f*****g signs!” [Language rendered into English for the purpose of clarity]. We were the only people in the tunnel at the time.
As for the Greenwich? Every time that I have used it I have felt that the number of users has rendered it unsafe to cycle through. I walk my bike through. The only problems I have faced are from ‘cyclists’ insisting on trying to ride through the crowds of people. ‘Cyclists’ are easy to spot; they are the stressed, sweaty ones in lycra and wearing road cleats. Road cleats are what probably prevents them from acting like human beings and walking.
levermonkey wrote:
I use the Greenwich tunnel regularly. In over twenty years of using it I’ve never ridden my bike, and I’ve never understood why people want to in that space with so many pedestrians. Today though I followed someone out of the lift and she looked around as if to see what other cyclists were doing. She didn’t look like a regular cyclist. She pushed her bike. At the other end asked me if she would be prosecuted if she rode it. I said no, nothing would happen, and she replied that next time she would ride through because pushing it in there was so difficult – the tunnel descends then rises again, so for half the time you’re pushing up a gentle slope.
Fact Checking for Road.CC
Fact Checking for Road.CC direct from TfL website:
Docklands Light Railway – Non-folded bicycles
Allowed off-peak Monday-Friday until 07:30, between 09:30-16:00, and after 19:00 and all day weekends and on bank holidays. For safety reasons, bicycles aren’t allowed at Bank station
I love my bike wrote:
Cheers, updating.
I came through the tunnel a
I came through the tunnel a few weeks back with a Santander bike and walked in places and rode a short stretch too but dismounted as I got close to Isle of Dogs side as the tunnel narrows a lot. At the time I was in the tunnel there were other cyclists who weren’t wearing out their shoe leather either.
If people were considerate of
If people were considerate of each other and paid attention it wouldn’t be an issue but because they can’t be and don’t it will be a problem.
embattle wrote:
Exactly right. If people can’t stop being so aggressive and impatient, then the country is going to grind to a halt very soon.
So many self-important no marks all jostling for space which doesn’t exist, in order to progress. London = Too many people and not enough space.
Common sense and courtesy are the answers, but that seems to be lacking everywhere you go these days.
Can anyone also tell me whenever there are stories about us social outcast cyclists, the words in the headlines normally include: Fury (this one), horror, shock, digust etc?
Cyclax Maximus wrote:
Yup. One of my routes passes through a busy market area with lots of people on foot. I just gently follow pedestrians through at less than walking pace – on my bike, uncleated, so can stop in a foot if needed. If I walked the bike, I’d take more space and would worry that I’d clip someone’s ankle with the opposite pedal. Giving way to people is nice 🙂
That does look quite narrow.
That does look quite narrow. I suspect that I would be more inclined to cycle than to walk through there as I take up less space cycling than walking alongside my bike. As long as cyclists are careful, then I don’t see a problem and the lack of incidents suggests that it’s not a problem. However, are cyclists being careful because they know that they aren’t supposed to be cycling?
So, I’ve looked into this and
So, I’ve looked into this and it seems the original tunnel only cost £80,000* and was dug out by hand with shovels ‘n stuff in just a couple of years. I say fund a second parallel bike-only one via kickstarter. Additional funding to be raised via the selling of souvenir t-shirts and towels and occasional closure for private corporate events.
Contributors can also bring along a shovel and pickaxe for hands-on involvement. No need for expensive new plans from overpaid ‘consultants’ either, just use the original ones shifted 50 feet downstream (note to self – try to remember to account for river possibly being a tiny bit wider there). All that’s left is to buy a giant metal tube from somewhere and put in a bulk order of white bathroom tiles from B&Q.
Seems perfectly feasible. Might not even need lifts, as cyclists are fitter than pedestrians.
What could possibly go wrong?
*I might not have accounted for a century’s worth of inflation
Edit – could stick a few pot-plants under gro-lamps in it, to get Joanna Lumley on side. Er, I mean potted-plants, not pot-plants. Honest.
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:
Solved. Next…
Pushing a bike through the
Pushing a bike through the tunnel inconveniences other people far more than riding it considerately – not only are you wider, but you’re down there for longer. I can’t see any reason to proscribe cycling at a speed suitable for the conditions – which could be anywhere from walking pace to 20mph. The only rule needed is “don’t be a dick”.
The fact that there are no recorded injuries shows what a non-issue this is. It always amazes me how worked up some people can get when they see someone Breaking A Rule, no matter how pointles the rule is.
I have to say that if the
I have to say that if the behaviour of a small no. of people on bikes matches that experienced on the Bristol end of the Bristol-Bath cyclepath recently in the rush hour, then keeping bikes out of what looks like a narrow tunnel seems about right to me.
@FluffyKitten – I think you
@FluffyKitten – I think you’re on to something there. However, I’d recommend building a third hidden tunnel just for the grow lamps and crops. It’d soon pay for itself.
Having been through the
Having been through the tunnel a number of times I’ve found it to be too wet and slippery for safe cycling. You are better off on foot!
Quote:
351 cyclists
274 pedestrians
5 mums with prams
1 wheelchair
Maybe they should ban walking in the tunnel? Or maybe ban prams?
This is the narrow bit as you
This is the narrow bit as you approach the Isle of Dogs, as youi can see it isn’t wide enough to ride alongside pedestrians so we did the correcet thing and walked to the lift.
Redvee wrote:
If it’s wide enough to push a bike along within, then it’s more than wide enough to cycle within. (Because a person pushing a bike is wider and more of an obstacle than a person riding a bike.)
It really depends on the specific situation as to whether it would be better to unmount or cycle past at a slow speed. Seems no different to a shared use path.
FOGWOFT ( friends of
FOGWOFT ( friends of Greenwich and Woolwich Foot Tunnels ) have been looking at this for some years. I think the proposal is to allow considerate cycling out of peak hours and to use electronic signs to indicate when this will be permitted. The key word here is considerate. It might be worth contacting FOGWOFT directly on this to get their views.
FOGWOFT ( friends of
FOGWOFT ( friends of Greenwich and Woolwich Foot Tunnels ) have been looking at this for some years. I think the proposal is to allow considerate cycling out of peak hours and to use electronic signs to indicate when this will be permitted. The key word here is considerate. It might be worth contacting FOGWOFT directly on this to get their views.
Both those tunnels are wide
Both those tunnels are wide enough to cycle through and in the times I have used them, every so often, I’ve rode through with no issues with pedestrians. I don’t think I’ve seen many cyclists walking , but loads riding with no problems. They should take the no cycling restrictions away and spend more time making sure the lifts work.