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Girl killed during family bike ride struggled with gears and veered into road

Father calls for road’s speed limit to be reduced and a grass verge created between road and cycleway

A seven year-old girl was killed after struggling with her gears and swerving into the path of a car while cycling alongside a busy A road near Weston-super-Mare. April Reeves’ parents have called for the 60mph speed limit to be dropped to 40mph and a grass verge to be created between the road and cycleway to prevent future incidents.

The Western Morning News reports how April was riding a small mountain bike along a shared footpath and cyclepath next to the A371 near RAF Locking on Thursday May 28 when she lost control of her bike and swerved into the path of a Skoda Yeti driven by Peter Farmer.

April was riding behind her mother, Wendy, and older brother, Tyler. PC Julian Chambers, who attended the scene, told the inquest:

"Mrs Reeves said she was struggling with operating the gears because she was not used to them. She was riding in sixth gear, which is the last and most difficult gear to cycle in. It is possible April was trying to change gear while she was moving. She lost control of the bike and fell off the kerb."

Chambers told the inquest there was nothing Peter Farmer could have done to avoid the schoolgirl crashing into the front side of his car.

Jeremy Spearing, who had been driving on the opposite side of the road, said there had been a gap of up to 30m between the three cyclists. He saw April wobbling on her bike before she fell.

"April started to wobble. I could see her wheel turning left towards the road and noticed she was close to it. Within five metres of passing I heard a noise like an empty cardboard box being hit with a baseball bat. I knew straight away she had been hit."

Peter Farmer said he saw April in his peripheral vision as he drove past, looking unsteady or not in control of her bike.

"I cannot describe the sound. I just knew something had happened and I instinctively veered to the right but there was oncoming traffic."

Another witness, Shirley Hobson said she was travelling behind Farmer and did not register any concerns about his driving.

The inquest recorded a verdict of accidental death.

Since the accident in May there has been a campaign to lower the speed limit on the 60mph road. After the hearing, April’s father, Garry, said:

"I just want the road changed so the speed limit is lower and there is a safe crossing point especially up by the school. I would like there to be a grass verge running along the side of the road like the rest of the cycle paths in Weston. There is no protection between that road and that path at all.

"Like my little son said, on that day if there had been a grass verge his sister would be here today. We think 60mph is way too fast for speed on that road and prevention is much better than cure. Why wait until more and more accidents and deaths are being reported to then change the road? Why can't it be done now? Why wait? Why risk more lives when there is a cure?"

Following the inquest, a spokesman for North Somerset Council told the Bristol Post:

"Our sympathies are with the family at what must continue to be a heart-breaking time for them.

"Although it is clear that the road condition and vehicle speeds played no part in this tragedy, we did say at the time of the accident that there were already improvements being planned as a result of the new residential and employment development taking place at Locking Parklands.

"We had been in discussions with the local school and had moved flashing warning lights nearer to the current crossing point on the A371. We have also completed the work in conjunction with the school and parish council to create an extension to the school car park to encourage parents not to drop off children on the main road.

"We are now progressing the planned widened cycle/pedestrian path from Locking Parklands down to the Laneys Drove junction; funding for this has been identified from the Local Sustainable Transport Fund. The design work has been completed and we are waiting for confirmation of a start date. Where space allows there will be a grass strip between the road and the footway.

"Design work has also begun on the north-south road link across the site which will require a traffic-light junction on the A371 with new pedestrian crossing facilities. This will enable us to review the speed limit here but no decisions have been made yet as to what that limit should be or the extent of a reduced limit.

"We will carefully study any comments we get from the coroner and respond to them appropriately."

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

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49 comments

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tritecommentbot | 7 years ago
1 like

You can be 7 and inexperience, or 40 and an amateur racer. Doesn't matter, one mistake yours or a motorists and it's game over. Also think that it's wrong to have a 60mph road next to a cycle lane. There's no time to react if a cyclist has to swerve out to avoid an obstacle, or loses balance.

 

Not to mention how unnerving it is to ride and have cars fly past at 60mpg within a couple of meters. 

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Carton | 8 years ago
2 likes

If I was out riding my bike and I saw a 3-4 year old ambling by several feet from the bike lane on a raised pavement, sure, I would come to pretty much a full stop. But a 9 year old?  I'd slow down a bit, if I was aware enough to notice. Is that enough? I hope so. It's honestly more than the vast majority of cyclists I've seen. YMMV.

In a car, on a 60mph road (even  at 50 or 40), with far greater braking distances, if someone falls 10 or 20 feet in front of a car going 40mph,  a collision is virtually unavoidable. And the potential harm resulting from a collision is far higher. Yet absolutely no driving standard I've known calls for people slowing down due to the possibility of pedestrians suddenly jutting out into the street or cyclist a falling from the pavement into the streets. And with reason, as it would make our current transportation system pretty much inviable. 

So until the day comes were cars no longer allowed on the roads, these types of accidents (yes, accidents) are going to happen. Lives will tragically be lost. Can we do something about the frequency? Sure, there are measures to be taken. Human drivers being outlawed is probably by far the best of these, in terms of lives saved. And it's not that far away, IMHO. But would any politically viable measure (as of 2015) have contributed to a better outcome this case? That's a far tougher question than most here seem to realize.

My heart goes out to the family. But on the information presented here I find it completely irresponsible to blame the driver, even more so to hint at starting a social media shaming campaign. I honestly believe that attempting something like that would be actively unhelpful to the cause of advancing outside support for cycling (I'm not referring to the comments made here, this being a road cycling site with a specific audience).

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Ush replied to Carton | 8 years ago
2 likes
Carton wrote:

;But would any politically viable measure (as of 2015) have contributed to a better outcome this case? That's a far tougher question than most here seem to realize.

Yes, one politically viable option would be that the drivers of dangerous vehicles are expected to live up to the standard of care implied by the possession of a license to operate said vehicles. It's something everyone can do for themselves. No need for the government or the police... just fucking accept that it's a dangerous machine, stop normalizing it and behave accordingly.

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to Ush | 7 years ago
1 like
Ush wrote:
Carton wrote:

;But would any politically viable measure (as of 2015) have contributed to a better outcome this case? That's a far tougher question than most here seem to realize.

Yes, one politically viable option would be that the drivers of dangerous vehicles are expected to live up to the standard of care implied by the possession of a license to operate said vehicles. It's something everyone can do for themselves. No need for the government or the police... just fucking accept that it's a dangerous machine, stop normalizing it and behave accordingly.

Is it politically viable though? Lots of things are just and moral and sensible, but politically impossible. That's how human beings roll.

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a.jumper replied to Carton | 8 years ago
0 likes
Carton wrote:

... Yet absolutely no driving standard I've known calls for people slowing down due to the possibility of pedestrians suddenly jutting out into the street or cyclist a falling from the pavement into the streets. And with reason, as it would make our current transportation system pretty much inviable. 

The National Standard for Driving Cars and Light Vans (category B) Element 4.1.2 "Cooperate with other road users" and Element 4.2.1 "Identify and respond to hazards" call for that, saying you MUST know and understand "the importance of predicting the likely actions of other road users, especially vulnerable road users such as cyclists, motorcyclists, children and the elderly" and be able to "use visual clues to predict possible hazards and prepare for situations that may arise". The associated syllabus also addresses the only-dangerous-is-viable myth by saying "being patient and considerate generally results in everybody getting where they want to more quickly and safely."

Now, if someone wants to suggest that this isn't explicit enough that someone falling from a footway into the road is just such a likely action and possible hazard, then I'd suggest that they fall below the required standard for driving! I'm sorry if that isn't helpful for "advancing outside support for cycling", but I really care more about this threat to children than that and it's time to tell a few harsh truths and get the bad drivers away from their killer cars.

In this particular case, there does appear to be more than enough blame to share around: not only the substandard driving, but also the substandard cycle facility built by the council and questions about why no responsible adult was riding behind and overseeing a wobbly child rider.

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Carton replied to a.jumper | 8 years ago
0 likes

a.jumper wrote:

I'm sorry if that isn't helpful for "advancing outside support for cycling", but I really care more about this threat to children than that and it's time to tell a few harsh truths and get the bad drivers away from their killer cars.

I appreciate a well-researched reply. And as I said before, I objected to people hinting at going on social media to try to shame the driver, again, I don't think that would raise any outside support (quite the opposite). I welcome objections on this forum.

a.jumper wrote:

being patient and considerate generally results in everybody getting where they want to more quickly and safely.

Note the generally. Not always. Not even almost always. You can't guarantee always. Because accidents do happen.

a.jumper wrote:

The National Standard for Driving Cars and Light Vans (category B) Element 4.1.2 "Cooperate with other road users"

Though I've never cycled there, from all I've read she a road user as she wasn't using the road, she stumbled from the pavement cycle lane into the road. 

a.jumper wrote:

Now, if someone wants to suggest that this isn't explicit enough that someone falling from a footway into the road is just such a likely action and possible hazard, then I'd suggest that they fall below the required standard for driving

Well, then there is just no way you can allow cars on the roads (even self-driving ones) if the driving standard is to slow down enough to allow for anyone on the pavement to cross into your path at any time. What's more, you really couldn't even allow bikes on the roads either. Because even if you have a 10mph limit for cars and bikes, you wouldn't avoid every fatal accident involving any infirm person jutting out into the street.

Again, had he be going 40mph, would it have made a difference? Maybe, if she fell 100 ft away. However, if I take his word for it that he didn't see even see her fall into his path, that means she possibly fell less than 10 ft from his car. There is basically no speed at which you can drive (or ride a bike, even though the potential for harm would be lower fatal accidents would still happen) and account for that.

Maybe she was farther away and he could have done something. Maybe. But you can't know that. And nothing suggests that. You can still campaign for better infrastructure and more care from drivers. You can even campaign for the banning of all human driving, if you want (way too early IMHO, and again, unlikely to drum up outside support, but it's your prerogative). But to assume fault from the driver in this case based on current standards and evidence is, again, from in my opinion completely irresponsible.

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a.jumper replied to Carton | 8 years ago
3 likes
Carton wrote:

a.jumper wrote:

being patient and considerate generally results in everybody getting where they want to more quickly and safely.

Note the generally. Not always. Not even almost always. You can't guarantee always. Because accidents do happen.

Sure, but the odd case where it wouldn't doesn't make the whole system unviable, does it?

Carton wrote:

a.jumper wrote:

The National Standard for Driving Cars and Light Vans (category B) Element 4.1.2 "Cooperate with other road users"

Though I've never cycled there, from all I've read she a road user as she wasn't using the road, she stumbled from the pavement cycle lane into the road. 

A road is more than just a carriageway. A footway is part of a road too.

Trying to dodge the motorist's culpability with that sort of dictionary pedantry is really ugly... and generally accepted by the legal system and most of society, sadly.

Carton wrote:

Well, then there is just no way you can allow cars on the roads (even self-driving ones) if the driving standard is to slow down enough to allow for anyone on the pavement to cross into your path at any time. What's more, you really couldn't even allow bikes on the roads either. Because even if you have a 10mph limit for cars and bikes, you wouldn't avoid every fatal accident involving any infirm person jutting out into the street.

Nice attempt to make this black and white. All I am saying is that he should have at least slowed down and steered wide (the A371 has pretty wide lanes there until it gets into Banwell - it used to serve the old RAF base), rather than apparently kept his foot down and pass within falling distance... I think he's probably to blame but I also think he's just the patsy this time. Why aren't driving standards better known? Why aren't motorists being encouraged to keep up to date, reread the Highway Code and do some self-testing? Why are the police and legal system so relaxed about killer motoring?

That all means this sort of tragedy will probably happen again and again until we as a society bring motoring back under control.

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Carton replied to a.jumper | 8 years ago
0 likes

a.jumper wrote:

A road is more than just a carriageway. A footway is part of a road too.

Trying to dodge the motorist's culpability with that sort of dictionary pedantry is really ugly... and generally accepted by the legal system and most of society, sadly.

No, it's not just a technicality. I've never seen anyone ever veer outside their lane to accommodate me walking by on the footpath. It's never ever happened to me anywhere in the world. And while I'm definitely no jet-setter I've had the fortune of traveling here and there in my few decades on this rock. On a bike on the road,  most drivers will. Some will give me the whole lane even if I'm hugging the shoulder.

a.jumper wrote:

All I am saying is that he should have at least slowed down and steered wide (the A371 has pretty wide lanes there until it gets into Banwell - it used to serve the old RAF base), rather than apparently kept his foot down and pass within falling distance...

If that's all that you were saying I agree. Even more so, it's something I'll try to keep more in mind when driving or riding.

But even though it seems selfish to bring my own issues to an article about the death of a child again, I think self-examination is key to unbiased reasoning. And again, nearly every week I'll see pedestrians jumping out onto my way on the cycle path, and though I try to be really aware and slow down (and ride slowly as a general principle) and so far I've almost always been able to avoid them; I'm still not sure I'm ready to take any blame when the day comes where I can't. Maybe most here are or are unconvinced of the parallels. 

a.jumper wrote:

I think he's probably to blame but I also think he's just the patsy this time.

And then you said a little more. Even though I appreciate you being less categorical, that's where we differ. Could he have gone above and beyond any driving standard I know? Sure. Would it have even helped? Maybe. Is he legally or morally to blame? I really don't think so. Call me facetious again if you must, but an ethical code in which a motorist is to blame for someone falling into the path of their car on a primary road is an ethical code incompatible with any sort of motoring on public roads.

a.jumper wrote:

Why aren't driving standards better known? Why aren't motorists being encouraged to keep up to date, reread the Highway Code and do some self-testing? Why are the police and legal system so relaxed about killer motoring?

Again, I agree.

a.jumper wrote:

this sort of tragedy will probably happen again and again

Unfortunately, yes. But this is very likely the odd case where a tragedy will take place no matter what measures are taken. Avoidable incidents where "bringing back motoring under control" absolutely could've helped are posted to this site daily. But the case of someone falling onto the path of  a car on a primary road is more-than-probably not one of them. 

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mrchrispy | 8 years ago
0 likes

not getting into an interfloppy argument on a thread about a dead little girl ffs, lets agree to disagree before we both start to look like bellends .

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Bikebikebike | 8 years ago
6 likes

"Peter Farmer said he saw April in his peripheral vision as he drove past, looking unsteady or not in control of her bike."

...so he didn't do anything, just carried on driving straight.

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PaulBox replied to Bikebikebike | 8 years ago
0 likes

Bikebikebike wrote:

"Peter Farmer said he saw April in his peripheral vision as he drove past, looking unsteady or not in control of her bike."

...so he didn't do anything, just carried on driving straight.

No he didn't.

"I cannot describe the sound. I just knew something had happened and I instinctively veered to the right but there was oncoming traffic."

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Bikebikebike replied to PaulBox | 8 years ago
5 likes

PaulBox wrote:

Bikebikebike wrote:

"Peter Farmer said he saw April in his peripheral vision as he drove past, looking unsteady or not in control of her bike."

...so he didn't do anything, just carried on driving straight.

No he didn't.

"I cannot describe the sound. I just knew something had happened and I instinctively veered to the right but there was oncoming traffic."

 

OK ... ...so he didn't do anything, just carried on driving straight, until he hit and killed her.  Probably a bit late then.

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StuInNorway replied to Bikebikebike | 7 years ago
0 likes

Bikebikebike wrote:

OK ... ...so he didn't do anything, just carried on driving straight, until he hit and killed her.  Probably a bit late then.

If you read the article properly it's quite clear he was passing the girl when she fell into the side of his car, if he'd say slowed down an extra 3-4mph, then she may have fallen right in front of his wheels leaving him equally little change to do anything but leaving him with the lifelongmemoery of seeing her go under his car.
On the other hand, if he'd been going 4mph faster, she might have fallen behind his car and survived wth cuts and scrapes.  
It's clear there was oncoming traffic, he couldn't pull into the oncoming lane. 
One way or another, none of us were there and witnessed the actual circumstances, and this tragic accident highlights various things.  A safety margin between cycling infrastructure and busy road can help improve safety, but might not stop all accidents.   Taking children out cycling alongside a major road until they are fully competent with all aspects of bike control is probably not the ideal option for a cycle trip.Ifor one am currently teaching my 8 year old (who to make things more interesting has a mild variant of autism) road safety and cycling skills. He's pretty good, keeps a good line, is aware (generally) of what's around, but I'd not take him along the side of a major route yet, and that's despite the fact that over here A road equivalents have an 80km/h limit (50mph) and most shared use paths along them have a divide betweeen the sections.

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alansmurphy | 8 years ago
2 likes

Mr C,

 

Posts like yours boil my piss, were you there?

 

After an accident you can look back on many thousands of contributory factors, maybe if the weather had been different, if the cat hadn't moaned to be fed and on and on and on... To suggest he was driving past hoping for the best suggests negligence which would have incurred charges.

 

Rather than single him out and suggest some Google induced attacks on him, why not equally provide the parents twitter feeds so people can lampoon them about bike maintenance, choice of route, pissing off down the road and abandoning her?

 

Stupid, ill informed and offensive post!

 

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mrchrispy replied to alansmurphy | 8 years ago
5 likes

alansmurphy wrote:

Mr C,

Posts like yours boil my piss, were you there?

<snip>

Stupid, ill informed and offensive post!

I dont really need to be there to get annoyed at the fact the copper said "here was nothing Peter Farmer could have done to avoid the schoolgirl" it just reinforces the feeling of impunity drivers have (yes I drive).  Mr Farmer could have been driving slower when passing a small child on a bike....not saying he saw her and though "f**k it", sadly its more like the idea didn't even enter his mind.  

So yes it  does boil my piss....i deal with people riding past my kids too fast every bloody week as they just cant be arsed to slow down for 30 seconds.  

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PaulBox replied to mrchrispy | 8 years ago
0 likes

mrchrispy wrote:

I dont really need to be there to get annoyed at the fact the copper said "here was nothing Peter Farmer could have done to avoid the schoolgirl" it just reinforces the feeling of impunity drivers have (yes I drive).  Mr Farmer could have been driving slower when passing a small child on a bike....not saying he saw her and though "f**k it", sadly its more like the idea didn't even enter his mind.  

I don't know what you do for a living, but you really should consider contacting the police or CPS. Your ability to do a better job of assessing what happened than a police officer who attended the scene is truly astounding...

Can you tell us how fast Mr Farmer was travelling and what you would advise for the future?

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Bikebikebike | 8 years ago
2 likes

If the driver had been driving past his own family cycling along the pavement like that, I give 100:1 odds they would have given a wider berth.  That should be the test of culpability.

Whatever the safety implications, it's horrible and scary walking next to a road where cars are speeding past at whatever speed they like (it's a 60 limit, so I guess most cars are going 70).  Who would put the pavement right next to the road?  It's madness.

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mrchrispy | 8 years ago
9 likes

truly awful, my heart goes out to the family.

Peter Farmer absolutely could have done something to avoid the 'accident', he appears to have acknowledged the presence of the danger but carried on driving with the usual impunity drivers enjoy.  Peter Farmer could have slowed down, he could have pulled out, he could even have come to a complete stop, Peter Farmer chose to drive past a small child and hope for the best, unfortunately that action was instrumental to her death.  

If Peter Farmer happen across this in googling his name then this message it to him.....you are to blame mate, you could have done better and you quite frankly you should have.  
You drive to the conditions and the surroundings, notice a kids wobbling on a bike next to the road then to slow the F down and give them room.  

the fact that PC Julian Chambers  tries to abolish Farmer  of all blame boils my piss, it just reinforces drivers attitudes that shit happens and its not their fault.

 

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Grubbythumb | 8 years ago
0 likes

I ride that road on a regular basis, and the photo does not give a true impression of just how wide the footway / cycle path is, in places it as wide as a single carriageway road. Also the path is at kerb height above the road.

Cars do not slow down for people on the footway, they don't slow down for the horses that are sometimes seen on the grass verges and they certainly don't slow down for cyclists on the road, but it is a very wide road, so even with traffic moving in both directions there is plenty of room to pass, which most drvers do safely.

This was just a traguc and very sad accident, if the little girl had wobbled a few moment before or after, she would not have struck the car. I feel terribly sorry for the parents, but really, this road is not anything like as dangerouse as it is being percieved.

 

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Arno du Galibier | 8 years ago
0 likes

absolutely dreadful, for everyone involved.

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alansmurphy | 8 years ago
4 likes

Some of the speculation on here is not nice, how do we know he didn't start to slow, or that he wasn't going significantly slower than the limit.

 

As has been said below, I try to ensure that my little ones have the knowledge and proficiency but we often do this from a position of 'ignorance' because we do instinctively know what to do ourselves. On roads where I am concerned i will still cycle behind my 13 year old and a decent distance wider, it makes the cars either wait or pass me very wide and means if he swerves to avoid an object in the road he is still no wider than myself.

 

When riding with my younger ones (and they are on the pavement) I will still often use the road to add even more protection. There is always a balance though, i try and be slightly behind in case of veering but if there's a side road i tend to advance to see how much speed they need to knock off - there is potential in those few seconds for things to happen.

 

There but for the grace of God go I and thoughts are with anyone who loses a young soul in such circumstances...

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mrmo | 8 years ago
4 likes

Drivers saw the issue but did nothing.... Would drivers have behaved the same if it was a horse? This also highlights why so many uk bike paths are not fit for purpose, they should be safe for everyone! 

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PaulBox replied to mrmo | 8 years ago
1 like

Mother didn't see that there was a problem because she was 30m up the road, she did nothing either...

mrmo wrote:

Drivers saw the issue but did nothing.... Would drivers have behaved the same if it was a horse? This also highlights why so many uk bike paths are not fit for purpose, they should be safe for everyone! 

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mrmo replied to PaulBox | 8 years ago
1 like

Did the mother kill her daughter?

 

The driver killed the girl, he may not have meant to. From experience a driver sees a horse and slows, and yes i regularly see horses on 60mph trunk roads before anyone mentions,   regardless of being on the pavement or the road. Driver sees pedestrian, or cyclist and doesn't give a s***.

Bikes wobble, children more so, highway code clearly states to give room. Law is that you can't go through a puddle and splash a pedestrian, how many drivers obey that one?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10590181/Motorist-f...

 

PaulBox wrote:

Mother didn't see that there was a problem because she was 30m up the road, she did nothing either...

mrmo wrote:

Drivers saw the issue but did nothing.... Would drivers have behaved the same if it was a horse? This also highlights why so many uk bike paths are not fit for purpose, they should be safe for everyone! 

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PaulBox replied to mrmo | 8 years ago
0 likes

mrmo wrote:

Did the mother kill her daughter?

In my opinion, yes. 

It is her responsibility to ensure wherever possible that her children are safe. It sounds like the little girl wasn't competent to ride in such an evironment, therefore she should not have been allowed too. Even if she was a great little rider, her mother should have been in a position to monitor what she was doing and take action if necessary. If the mother wasn't that good of a rider either, then she shouldn't have been taking the kids out and riding in such a place.

mrmo wrote:

The driver killed the girl, he may not have meant to. From experience a driver sees a horse and slows, and yes i regularly see horses on 60mph trunk roads before anyone mentions,   regardless of being on the pavement or the road. Driver sees pedestrian, or cyclist and doesn't give a s***.

Bikes wobble, children more so, highway code clearly states to give room. Law is that you can't go through a puddle and splash a pedestrian, how many drivers obey that one?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10590181/Motorist-f...

So basically all motorists should drive around expecting that the worst is going to happen all of the time? 

Obviously I agree that motorists should slow and give room if passing somebody on the road, but this is a very wide cycle path. I really don't think that cyclists or pedestrians should expect cars to slow down for them.

If you're driving in a 30mph zone, do you slow down when you're passing a pedestrian walking along the pavement?

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a.jumper replied to PaulBox | 8 years ago
7 likes
PaulBox wrote:

So basically all motorists should drive around expecting that the worst is going to happen all of the time? 

Actually, preparing for the worst, rather than merely expecting it. It's what driving lessons teach you and what the highway code expects.

PaulBox wrote:

Obviously I agree that motorists should slow and give room if passing somebody on the road, but this is a very wide cycle path. I really don't think that cyclists or pedestrians should expect cars to slow down for them.

That cycle path is a narrow POS, mostly made by slapping paint and signs on a footway. I know it well, including the awful crossings of the service station, the Locking turn and the beloved helicopter show.

PaulBox wrote:

If you're driving in a 30mph zone, do you slow down when you're passing a pedestrian walking along the pavement?

Yes, unless I'm well away from the pavement, so they could fall without risk of me hitting them. All good drivers do that, but bad drivers seem to be in the majority now.

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Ush replied to PaulBox | 8 years ago
4 likes
PaulBox wrote:

So basically all motorists should drive around expecting that the worst is going to happen all of the time? 

See? He does get it.

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PaulBox replied to Ush | 8 years ago
0 likes

Ush wrote:
PaulBox wrote:

So basically all motorists should drive around expecting that the worst is going to happen all of the time? 

See? He does get it.

You're clever, did you think of that all on your own?

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to PaulBox | 7 years ago
1 like
PaulBox wrote:

Ush wrote:
PaulBox wrote:

So basically all motorists should drive around expecting that the worst is going to happen all of the time? 

See? He does get it.

You're clever, did you think of that all on your own?

What's the point of that response? Morally, yes, motorists should drive carefully. It's because they won't that we need far greater efforts to keep them away from vulnerable road users.
Cars are weapons, and need to be regulated accordingly. Our car culture is currently much like US gun culture.

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Yorkshire wallet replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 7 years ago
2 likes

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Cars are weapons, and need to be regulated accordingly. Our car culture is currently much like US gun culture.

Cars, car ownership and the ability to drive a car legally is very regulated in the UK. 

Cars are also cars, not weapons. The industry gets more and more safety regulations piled on it year upon year. Look at the demise of things you don't even think about  like pop-up lights, done for pedestrian safety. All cars look like blobs now because of various safety rules. Cars come with endless electronic safety addons now. Hardly an industry not acting on safety. 

Cyclists have killed pedestrians, are cycles weapons? 

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