A woman who was the victim of cruel heckling from other cyclists on Box Hill at the weekend has said the incident has made her think twice about riding alone again.
Elz Lloyd was cycling alone in the Surrey Hills on Sunday when two separate riders commented aggressively on her weight, one of them telling her to get "off the fucking road, you fat bitch". Reduced to tears she ended up cutting short her ride and returning home early.
After writing about the incident on her blog, Elz was "astounded" when almost 300 people responded with encouraging words, expressing disgust and solidarity, and invitations to ride.
Elz writes she was climbing Punchbowl Lane when two riders in Castelli kit cycled past her shouting: "…off the fucking road you fat bitch…"
Shortly afterwards another, this time solo rider, in black kit cycled past her on Box Hill, saying: "Can you get that fat ass up here?"
Elz told road.cc: "The first two that came by I was really angry, then I went to pieces in my head. I don't expect that out in the middle of nowhere.
"It hurt. it hurt quite a lot; I didn't expect it to."
She said the insults made her feel "wretched".
"I struggled to hold back the tears the first time, It is sad that people can be like that," she said.
She tried to ride harder to take her mind off it, until the Box Hill ascent when a lone rider, in plain black kit, snapped the second insult.
She writes: "I know I’m not skinny. I know I’ve got big boobs and am curvy (I’m paraphrasing a nice male mate of mine here). I know I smoked for 10 years. I know I’m riding alone because I really haven’t found any clubs around here that I’d be happy to join. Or any local friends."
"I didn't feel like going any further when I got to the bottom of Box Hill," she said. "I'm not that big but I felt mortified that someone could say that as they were going past.
"All I wanted to do was disappear. I didn't want to stop because I didn't want people asking [about it]. It was busy up there [at Box Hill]."
She said: "I didn't want to be there, I just wanted to come back, talk to a couple of mates".
As soon as she got home she wrote the blog post.
"I didn't expect that many people to read my blog," she said.
"I logged out of Facebook and Twitter and it was only when a friend called from America…I realised there were a lot of people talking about it."
Most comments, from both men and women, offer support, or recall similar comments about their weight made while running, cycling or even sitting in the park.
Many tell her not to be put off but for the time being Elz says she's reluctant to return to the area on weekends which, she says, are much busier than even a couple of years ago when she rode there regularly.
"I don't particularly want to ride out in the Surrey hills on my own now. it's very intimidating," she said.
Elz said: "There's plenty of sweary drivers that I just ignore or ride away from, but it hurts coming from other cyclists.
However, she says "for every bad one you get 100 good ones."
"I'm glad they are in the minority, but it's also good to get the support I received, that was astounding."
In one typically encouraging response, Chris NTR wrote: "Reading this has really made me angry for your experience. I started cycling when I was 21 stone and thankfully I did not encounter any of this negativity from fellow cyclists. I also did not have anyone to cycle with so started a group on Facebook which 7 years later has 800+ members and we have formed a British Cycling affiliated cycling club in the North East which now has over 160 members.
"Please keep cycling and don’t let idiots like this put you off. There is room for everyone in our sport no matter what sex, age or size they are but unfortunately that means there is room for the d*ckheads too."
One woman, posting as Cyclemouse, said she would have chased the abusive cyclists had she been there.
"Please don’t take any notice of those idiots. Cycling is for everyone regardless of shape or size. I’m a fast female roadie cyclist. If I’d been with you I would have chased their skinny backsides down and called them a few choice words in return," she said.
One or two comments suggested some sort of vigilante naming and shaming via Strava, which Lloyd quickly shut down as she knew them and they were not the culprits.

132 thoughts on “Woman’s blog about Box Hill heckling attracts hundreds of supportive comments”
Morons. What sort of idiot
Morons. What sort of idiot would say that?
They are generaly dressed all
They are generaly dressed all in black riding super lightweight bikes, but for some reason always seem to be riding with just one other rather than being out on club runs!
In short such types ride alone or with a sidekick because
A: No one that likes cycling wants to be seen anywhere near them.
B: They are actualy not that good, sure they have all the gear but ride with those that can really get a lick on? Not on your nelly!!
WashoutWheeler wrote:They are
But you are aware that not everybody rides with their club on every single ride they go on, right?
I just echo everybody saying that the comments made are totally unacceptable. No need for it at all.
Unbelievable. What the hell
Unbelievable. What the hell is wrong with these people?
You were out there, doing
You were out there, doing more than 95% of the population as far as excercise is concerned. Whether you are happy the way you are or cycling for fitness and weight loss is immaterial, you are a cyclist and it takes all shapes and sizes. Go girl!
I can’t believe there are
I can’t believe there are riders out there so narrow minded. Would they prefer that all fat bitches stayed fat, or would they prefer that they try and do something about it? I much prefer the latter.
I nod/wave to all other
I nod/wave to all other cyclists, no matter what, because they are out there doing it, the ones that don’t return the courtesy are the faux pro dickheads, who are going to be dickheads whatever they are doing.
Sorry, this is going to sound
Sorry, this is going to sound really mean spirited but are we believing this?
HalfWheeler wrote:Sorry, this
Why shouldn’t we? What has she to gain by lieing?
There are some very very narrow minded people out there.
Oh believe me, I saw Elz’s
Oh believe me, I saw Elz’s tweets soon after it happened. She was really upset. I follow her on Twitter. She’s a really keen cyclist, rides miles and travels widely supporting the TdF and competitions here. The abuse she clearly received was completely out of order.
By going out there and
By going out there and riding, the lady blogging above, is lapping everyone sat on the couch. I cannot believe that some cyclists are like that. Total and utter morons.
I also acknowledge other cyclists and most acknowledge my saying hi/nodding etc. We are part of a community as soon as we step across a top tube, regardless of age, sex, body shape and everything else.
Some folk would do well to remember that.
SlowSPDRider wrote:By going
People on bikes are not the same thing as cyclists!
Cyclists are in my experience enthusastic encouraging friendly and delighted that someone else fell in love with cycling!
I agree wholeheartedly with
I agree wholeheartedly with that comment. Sloppy use of language on my part.
I don’t see how they are enjoying themselves at all behaving in that way.
Two Morons out of a Million,
Two Morons out of a Million, get back out just stick 2 finger up to these Bellends next time you see them.
When I’m out on my bike
When I’m out on my bike locally I get smiles or waves from about 75% of the other riders. There are a few who I reckon feel their segment times will be ruined if they even lift a finger off their bars to acknowledge anyone else on the road. However I also see Ali and Jonny Brownlee quite often and they will always smile. I’m fat and in my 50s and it means a lot to get that from an Olympian! As a result I’m not too bothered about the others . . . .
Maybe there is more to the
Maybe there is more to the story that enraged those two cyclists (IE-She accidentally chopped their wheel or something)?
I could understand one @&$ wanker, but a couple of them at different times? Is the new generation of cyclists really this bad? 😕
It would be fun to get an
It would be fun to get an elite female cyclist to dressed in fat suit soft pedalling until passed with disparaging comments (you can probably guess the rest) then up the pace blasting pass said idiots. Even better if their humiliation could be posted on youtube.
But maybe that is just playing their game. The idiots and block heads in what is a sport that is for all to enjoy should simply be ignored. Recognised for what they are a regrettable fringe.
Disgraceful, but then you get
Disgraceful, but then you get dickheads like this everywhere. Thankfully most people are fine.
Why are some people here saying there must be something more to this story?
ragtag wrote:Disgraceful, but
Because it’s a story of misogynistic arseholes abusing a woman. You don’t have to look far on the internet to find large numbers of men who live in their own world, ignorant of the reality that women face on a daily basis.
olic wrote:ragtag
Because it’s a story of misogynistic arseholes abusing a woman. You don’t have to look far on the internet to find large numbers of men who live in their own world, ignorant of the reality that women face on a daily basis.— ragtag
I have to say that question (Was there more to it?) came into my head as well when I read it. There are plenty of people who make stuff like this up, and worse.
My reluctance comes just from simple disbelief that there are really people like these abusive cyclists out there. I’m skinny and reasonably fast and have expensive bikes but I wouldn’t dream of doing that.
However as other people seem willing to vouch for her then I’m willing to accept it.
I’m not sure it’s a sexist thing though – they would probably be just as dismissive of an overweight male as well.
abudhabiChris wrote:I’m not
Also dismissive of a male possibly – but probably less likely to comment. Partly as they’d fear a punch in the gob should their paths cross again, and partly because women’s weight is perhaps more often used as a basis for insult.
Sadly there are a few particularly unpleasant cyclists out there.
Scumbags, just Frigging
Scumbags, just Frigging Scumbags. Just because you can afford Castelli does not give you the right to be rude.
Having come across a lot of
Having come across a lot of lycra louts, I have no doubt this happened. Quite believable. There are some arrogant tw@ts out there. Kudos for this lady getting on her bike and I hope she is not deterred from doing so in future.
I’m disgusted that a fellow
I’m disgusted that a fellow cyclist would do this. I think it’s great seeing ‘larger’ people out on their bikes because it shows that they are doing something about their size.
I try to say a friendly hello to every cyclist I see, whether it’s a guy in a skin suit riding 30mph on his TT bike, or little old lady cycling her shopping home in a wicker basket.
Its bad enough being abused
Its bad enough being abused by motorists without having your “own side” doing it too. The world doesn’t need those people in it.
peterben wrote:Its bad enough
They are not really on our “own side” though are they? If they were they would be out on club runs with proper cyclists! Instead of abusing women. I bet they have a nice big car in the garage at home as well!
Not that surprised. Plenty of
Not that surprised. Plenty of twits out there who think a full Castelli kit, a 28″ waist and a 3 grand bike makes them kings of the road. See them all the time.
An appropriate response might
An appropriate response might be:
“I can lose weight but it appears that you will always be an a$$hole!”
Or whatever expletive you feel like. Pretty dissappointing that someone (or two!) would choose to make such direct and derogatory comments to someone they don’t know.
Hello Elz, We’re sorry to
Hello Elz, We’re sorry to hear about your ordeal.
If you are reading this and you want a free ride in the Brighton to Brighton Cyclosportive on the 27th September 2015 Get in touch with SRS Events.
There are 5 routes to choose from from 20 miles to 107 miles.
Look forward to hearing form you.
If you can’t make the 27th September do still get in touch and we can organise another entry for you in another event.
We are looking for female role models for our 2016 season of cycling events and we’d like to speak to you more about this.
Keep cycling, be a role model to others.
http://www.srs-events.cc
Some people are just total
Some people are just total Audi drivers. Putting them on a bike doesn’t change that sadly
I dare this pair of cowardly
I dare this pair of cowardly pricks to come on here and justify these comments.
The best way to stop events
The best way to stop events like this? Public shaming. My recommendation would be get a camera so the next time it happens, you have their picture/video and it can spread like wildfire over social media. That way everyone those cyclist(s) know, or associate with, can see their true colors. They will be too embarrassed to show their faces again once they’ve been identified.
Wrong. The comments were derogatory in nature with regards to her weight, not her sex. People like you love associating ANY negativity as outright sexism. The only one making this a sexist issue is yourself, to fuel some arbitrary agenda in your mind, not anyone else.
Jamminatrix wrote:
olic
If you think a woman being called a ‘fat bitch’ has nothing to do with her sex and everything to do with her weight then you’re really not getting it.
Do you ever stop to think why women are so poorly represented on the roads?
Quote:The comments were
‘Bitch’ is not really a gender neutral insult is it?
Unlike ‘dimwit’…
This story brings me back to
This story brings me back to an idea I have had for some time and one that I am often reminded of when reading news articles on road.cc.
Essentially it boils down to a there being a large proportion of idiotic cyclist in the South East compared to other areas of the country, though perhaps I could refine this a little more by refining it to ‘idiotic male cyclists’.
A high proportion of R.CC stories of confrontation where I am left feeling the cyclist was being a bit of a d**k appear to feature riders based in London and surrounds.. even given the large number of cyclists in this area compared to others, it seems statistically significant.
Also, of the idiotic comments on road.cc articles where I am able to ascertain the location of the person who made the comment it seems they often are from the SE too.
However, my biggest insight was a London to Paris ride a couple of years ago. I’ve had years of riding in and around Edinburgh (which can be pretty manic too) commuting, club runs, club comps as well as track racing. The vast majority of the people I’ve met along the way have been respectful and accommodating.
I couldn’t believe what I saw and heard on a that L2P trip from riders based in London (and I know they were as they were from the head office of the company I work for). The levels of tension, anger and disregard for any other road user (including other cyclists) displayed by a fair proportion of riders seemed at odds with the nature of the event we were taking part in.
Having also ridden extensively in Shropshire, Yorkshire, the Borders and North Wales, in know that I have not seen the same behaviours/attitudes in these other areas.
Maybe I have been unlucky a few times and I am now looking for patterns to support my theory? I’m not sure, but I am very glad I don’t have to cycle in the South East.
“One or two comments
“One or two comments suggested some sort of vigilante naming and shaming via Strava…”
Really?
I recently discovered the Flyby function on Strava and thought it may help. If the rider could pinpoint ‘exactly’ where these clowns passed her, then Flyby ‘may’ be a useful tool in the identification process. I see no harm in suggesting that to her in a name/shame scenario.
Clearly, it is the rider, and only the rider herself, who could identify potential culprits, so I don’t see what ‘vigilante’ has to do with it (although I accept that there may be a few who think they know better that Elz).
As my girlfriend has said on
As my girlfriend has said on more than one occasion because of comments or the way she has been treated purely because of the colour of her skin: “It’s their problem, not mine!” Sums these idiots up nicely. Still, these type of people need educating.
I’d like to say
I’d like to say “unbelievable” but sadly it’s all too believable. I’m 65 & arthritis means I can’t get down on the drops so my ‘road’ bike is a cyclocross frame with straight bars. When riding it I’m regularly shouted at to “get out of the way” (or words to that effect) by riders who seem to imagine I should automatically pull off the road to allow them through. In such cases I take great pleasure in sticking to my guns – if they’re fast enough to pass me, fine, they can, but it’s not as easy as it might appear at first glance, my seeming-hybrid bike weighs 9kg all up & on the Conti GP 4000s accelerates like a startled cat with a rocket up its backside. As I’ll happily demonstrate…
It is disappointing though that riders on regular road bikes often appear to believe I have no right to share the road with them.
Contrary to what a lot of posters here have suggested, this behaviour is neither rare nor confined to loners – typically the “get out of the way” remarks come from people in large groups.
Interestingly I rarely encounter this sort behaviour on MTB rides. I’ve come to the conclusion that many roadies are simply not particularly nice people. ‘S tough, kid, but ‘s life.
Quote:When riding it I’m
I’m struggling to believe that this happens, seriously I am. They’d be getting a gob full of what they’ve given right back at them.
Nothing says I’m a crap rider better than someone gobbing off on the roads in order to get their Strava segment.
Top cyclists are some of the nicest guys I’ve ever met to the point of an ex-pro asking if I was OK as I was fixing a puncture on the side of the road. Nothing to prove, see?
You must remember that a lot
You must remember that a lot of ‘new’ or even ‘born again’ cyclists are ex golfers who could afford the best but still couldn’t put the ball in the little hole. So some of that mentality will come across. There will always be a minority who will tar the majority with their petty small minds. So go girl take up the offers of ride outs get out there and show them what a cyclist is.
ciderman_100 wrote:You must
+1
…and yes, when commuting on my scrappy old mountain bike, I’ve heard some pretty derogatory comments from riders wearing lycra on carbon framed roadbikes. But since I do race I’ve chased down a few and taken great pleasure in making soft blokes with top kit but none of the skill realise that a heavy steel framed MTB ridden by an old bloke with greying hair can indeed be made to go quicker
Such comments are
Such comments are unacceptable under any circumstances.
I find it encouraging to see anyone want to get on a bike and ride. I have no concerns for gender, race, age, size.
If I am fortunate to be able to ride faster, which is certainly not always the case, and catch up to another rider then a cheery greeting is usually well received. Sometimes we ride together for a distance just chatting. Sometimes not. There is no hint of insult and that’s how it should be.
Unfortunately, not everyone sees it that way. In which case, get on and ride your ride and let others do likewise without the inappropriate insults.
Amazing how much confirmation
Amazing how much confirmation bias is going on in these comments; cyclists in the South-East the rudest around. Seriously?!
Sounds like Elz meet some douches. No one owns the road. Sometimes it is frustrating if you can’t reach your target, but hey! That’s life. It happens. Better luck next time.
I’m guessing they would’ve insulted any other rider getting in the way of their segment.
Fair play to anyone who gets out on a bike, but we are hardly a community, just like motorists are not in a club.
I can’t imagine this sort of
I can’t imagine this sort of thing happening in many countries, what is wrong with these people, why are they so bloody aggressive?…… Thank God she’s getting some support online, restoring my faith in humanity a little.
An article reporting on
An article reporting on people making groundless generalisations followed by a bunch of comments where people make groundless generalisations.
Stay classy people
VeloPeo wrote:An article
What he said.
Elz, where I live in
Elz, where I live in Yorkshire, this is called small d*ck syndrome, this type of person wears all the kit & rides an expensive bike to compensate for what’s missing in their lives. Hurling abuse at anyone who isn’t built like lathe to make themselves feel good.
Just ignore them and do the ride for the sheer pleasure of it, the only person who’s opinion you need you need worry about your own. If your ever in East Yorkshire, PM me, I’d be proud to ride with you if you don’t mind riding with a fat old git.
PS To other commentators, I tend to ride with a friend rather than in a club because of location not because I can’t ride with a club. Remember not all cyclists want to be in clubs.
Gus T wrote:this is called
Big fan of cycling for this reason: Can’t hide your small wanker in a pair of lycra….it’s just out there for everyone to see.
olic wrote:You don’t have to
Sadly it’s true. Some knuckledraggers have yet to evolve 🙁
@ abudhabiChris I’m afraid olic is right, it’s sexist allright. They might think it about a ‘fat lad’ but not as likely to shout it as they pass.
Colin, I don’t think we are suggesting that all southerners are bar stewards or that this can’t happen elsewhere. But it’s reminiscent of the snobbery that is found more readily near the capital. Disappointed to see that oceandweller (in Berkshire) has suffered similar insults.
Wherever they are, it’s a pretty shitty thing to do. What supreme cowards! Thankfully Elz has received many supportive comments and I hope she can find some arsehole-free places to ride her bike.
There was a really big bloke
There was a really big bloke on my commute, I always thought he was pretty hardcore. When other people took rainy days off he was always there. His calf muscles were huge!
Seen as they have not come
Seen as they have not come forward to apologise, all I can see is a yellow streak down their back,
As cycling has become the new
As cycling has become the new golf, with an increase in popularity comes an increase representation of our society. I have noticed less riders respond to a good morning and read on road cc riders complaining and wanting to be left alone. That is there choice. Sadly the camaraderie that existed in cycling for many years is being eroded. It’s a double edged sword I suppose as with greater participation we hopefully will have a louder voice politically but then we get more dickheads out and about.
I don’t think that riding alone is a sign of how u ride, I ride with my club sometimes but love riding alone too, I’m slow regardless!
As for the two people, I think it was sexiest and cowardly! I strongly suspect they would be too intimidated to make such comments to a bug guy for fear of a good beating!
There are still far more nice people than scum riding don’t let them win!
Quote:Seen as they have not
I think I might have found the culprits and have to retract my earlier statement.
Nice try, but they were
=))
Nice try, but they were wearing Castelli, not Rapha.
If Elz is reading this then thanks for the genuinely shocking and touching blog post. There is much support out here for you.
A bet a £1 it never happened.
A bet a £1 it never happened. This fat lady could just have an agenda against cyclists because it is not as if cyclists using Box Hill haven’t already had to deal with the local mafiosi laying down tacks and close passing them in their huge 4x4s and shouting abuse ………….. I mean. It’s a little suspicious, don’t you think? I have never come across any cyclists who would be so rude to other cyclists as she is describing what she claims has happened to her, not even cyclists in replica pro team kit or fake worlds’ jerseys would be so rude and nasty, would they? I don’t think it happened. Pure fantasy on the woman’s part. It’s made up as it is on or in the vicinity of Box Hill which is very popular with many cyclists which some locals hate.
Frankly I’m shocked. Being
Frankly I’m shocked. Being skinny, fairly quick and male perhaps I just haven’t been a target for these kind of people around my way but I’d like to think they don’t exist everywhere. There is no excuse for good manners.
I would like to think that these are the kind of people have all the gear and no idea having only picked up a (ridiculously expensive) bike after the 2012 tour but I wonder whether they are seasoned riders with an elitist mindset and don’t want ‘outsiders’ joining the party.
Either way, jumped up arseholes who should keep their external monologue internal ’cause no one else is really interested in what they’ve got to say.
Sorry but I really don’t
Sorry but I really don’t believe a word of this story. Just because someone reported that ‘something happened to them’ via the internet does not necessarily mean it is actually true. Elz has provided no evidence and without verification there’s not a chance in hell that any noteworthy news organisation would have touched it with a barge-pole.
Knowing the ‘cycling community’ as much as I do, I too would be absolutely astounded if even one such reported abuse incident actually happened. However, for it to apparently happen *again* … just a few minutes later … by a completely separate rider … is quite frankly utterly beyond belief.
Judging by her Twitter feed I think Elz is quite the attention seeker and, with this one, she has really hit the jackpot for her 15 minutes of fame. Well done her.
Even more amazingly, said incident also supposedly happened on Box Hill, undoubtedly the most famous and newsworthy of all cycling venues in the UK. What a lucky co-incidence.
Well done Road.cc for proliferating such nonsense and stoking the ego of an obvious attention-seeker.
In the highly unlikely event that it *did* actually happen then clearly Rule 5 applies absolutely. But it didn’t.
I wonder what the response from commentators would have been if the tables were turned? What if the complainant had been an overweight bloke who was whinging that a couple of hot girls in Lycra had overtaken him whilst calling him a “useless fat c**t”? Would the dear readers here have been as sympathetic as they were to Elz?
Joeinpoole wrote:Sorry but I
This did cross my mind too and definitely needs to be given serious consideration.
I witnessed the second
I witnessed the second incident; was cycling up (slowly) past Elz as the tw*t whizzed down the other side. I remarked “charming”. The said tw*t was head to toe in black, black cap no helmet (that’s an identifier btw) and on a black bike. Have seen him there a few times and clearly he’s a strong rider, shame he’s such an oik. So yes that one did happen.
kangaroocourt wrote:black cap
Go on then, entertain me, an indicator of what exactly?
“identifier” not “indicator”.
“identifier” not “indicator”. Entertain yourself by spotting the difference.
kangaroocourt
I’m still at a loss as to what it is you are inferring about those that wear caps.
Since you don’t know the
Since you don’t know the difference between “inferring” and “implying” I’m not surprised you’re at a loss. But the answer to the question you meant to ask i.e. “what am I implying..?” is “nothing at all”. The cap reference – like the reference to colour of clothing and bike – was simply intended to help “identify” (read back above) the idiot concerned. Any additional grammar lessons will be chargeable. B-)
kangaroocourt
So it was Michael Rasmussen?
He is pretty skinny, to be fair.
kangaroocourt wrote:I
That’s odd, she never mentioned you in her blog nor the fact that the guy was going downhill at the time, in fact she says that the he “passes” her and makes the comment. Odd things to leave out unless, of course, you’re bullshitting.
Bullshitting about bullshit…is that bullshit squared (or cubed)?
Believe what you like, but
Believe what you like, but that’s my clear recollection. I’d not read the blog until after making the initial post but you can believe that (or not).
HalfWheeler
The laws of physics don’t preclude two things passing each other yet going in opposite directions.
JudahLow wrote:The laws of
But this isn’t a physics class, it’s how people realistically describe things using language. When you’re talking about someone passing in the opposite direction you would at least qualify it by saying “he was going downhill as I climbed” or “he was going the other way” or some such. If you’re setting a scene it seems an odd thing to omit that they were going in the opposite direction.
Unless, of course, kangaroocourt is fibbing about being there in the first place. Not to mention that the whole incident (and the ‘details’ of it) are just as incredulous.
HalfWheeler wrote:Unless, of
i’m more prepared to believe that you’d waste your life trying to discredit something you didn’t witness, on an internet forum, based on some spurious semantic argument, than i am that she’d make up the whole thing for a bit of attention. but maybe that’s just me
Barry Fry-up wrote:i’m more
Strawman argument, the semantics were were refuting the supposed 3rd party witness to the ‘incident’, not the ‘incident’ itself.
HalfWheeler wrote:
Strawman
there are only two outcomes to this:
1) the lady in question posts here to say she made it all up, and she’s sorry
2) everyone else gets tired of your pathetic, pedantic assault and goes elsewhere, at which point you slap yourself on the back and decide you’ve won because no-one’s bothering to contradict you any more
either way, congratulations on your ‘victory’.
Barry Fry-up
Calm down lovey.
HalfWheeler wrote:JudahLow
Bollocks.
Maybe if you’re an engineer/science bod (as I am), pedant, or or the sort of character type that exhibits such a characteristic.
But people just aren’t as accurate or precise in their use of language as you may like them to be.
Can’t help wondering if you’d even be persuing the ‘didn’t happen’ line if it had been from a bloke…
You need to get out more..
You need to get out more..
joeinpoole wrote:Sorry but I
This is pretty much the general lines of argumentation that people use when they don’t believe a victim of sexual assault (I appreciate this was not a sexual assault, and to draw such an emotive comparison may be over-egging it a little bit, but actually it’s incredible how similar the logic above is with that of rape-apologists). Blaming the victim, ad hominem AND a straw man in one ‘argument’? Congratulations!
Thankfully, anyone who talks about ‘the rules’ – particularly so-called ‘rule 5’ – is probably an idiot whose opinion we can safely disregard without much second thought anyway.
JudahLow wrote: Blaming the
But making a sweeping generalisation about a group of people based on your view of one is OK?
Not defending Joeinpoole’s comments for a moment, but as someone who is actively involved on the Rules’ site I find your comments just as offensive as the ones being complained about in the original story.
Not least because it’s actually a very supportive, inclusive and helpful community where the people would be the last to condone this sort of behaviour.
It’s quite extraordinary that a story complaining of people being abused because of how they look or what they are doing has so much commentary denigrating other people for how they look or what they’re doing.
If it’s not right to do it to overweight cyclists struggling up hills on crappy bikes it’s also not right to do it to roadie-racing types in nice kit with expensive bikes.
abudhabiChris wrote:JudahLow
But making a sweeping generalisation about a group of people based on your view of one is OK?
Not defending Joeinpoole’s comments for a moment, but as someone who is actively involved on the Rules’ site I find your comments just as offensive as the ones being complained about in the original story.
Not least because it’s actually a very supportive, inclusive and helpful community where the people would be the last to condone this sort of behaviour.
It’s quite extraordinary that a story complaining of people being abused because of how they look or what they are doing has so much commentary denigrating other people for how they look or what they’re doing.
If it’s not right to do it to overweight cyclists struggling up hills on crappy bikes it’s also not right to do it to roadie-racing types in nice kit with expensive bikes.— JudahLow
Yeah fair point, I apologise for those comments generalising people who refer to ‘the rules’. I’ll admit I personally am not a big fan of ‘the rules’ because it creates that classic in-group/out-group kind of mentality which is often so divisive and can alienate potentially new cyclists from the hobby (although I bet most cyclists are unaware of them anyway)…
However, I stand by the idea that someone saying that even if the story were true they should just ‘harden the fuck up’ is the sign of an idiot (albeit just one idiot who also happens to like ‘the rules’), though.
JudahLow wrote:abudhabiChris
But making a sweeping generalisation about a group of people based on your view of one is OK?
Not defending Joeinpoole’s comments for a moment, but as someone who is actively involved on the Rules’ site I find your comments just as offensive as the ones being complained about in the original story.
Not least because it’s actually a very supportive, inclusive and helpful community where the people would be the last to condone this sort of behaviour.
It’s quite extraordinary that a story complaining of people being abused because of how they look or what they are doing has so much commentary denigrating other people for how they look or what they’re doing.
If it’s not right to do it to overweight cyclists struggling up hills on crappy bikes it’s also not right to do it to roadie-racing types in nice kit with expensive bikes.— abudhabiChris
Yeah fair point, I apologise for those comments generalising people who refer to ‘the rules’. I’ll admit I personally am not a big fan of ‘the rules’ because it creates that classic in-group/out-group kind of mentality which is often so divisive and can alienate potentially new cyclists from the hobby (although I bet most cyclists are unaware of them anyway)…
However, I stand by the idea that someone saying that even if the story were true they should just ‘harden the fuck up’ is the sign of an idiot (albeit just one idiot who also happens to like ‘the rules’), though.— JudahLow
Rule no. 5 is about cycling and not to be used to belittle people’s feelings. The Rules are a useful guide but even Frank Streck knows they require judgement in their application. If you read the rules they are by an large pretty inclusive and instructional, but mostly fun.
JudahLow wrote:joeinpoole
This is pretty much the general lines of argumentation that people use when they don’t believe a victim of sexual assault (I appreciate this was not a sexual assault, and to draw such an emotive comparison may be over-egging it a little bit, but actually it’s incredible how similar the logic above is with that of rape-apologists). Blaming the victim, ad hominem AND a straw man in one ‘argument’? Congratulations!
Thankfully, anyone who talks about ‘the rules’ – particularly so-called ‘rule 5’ – is probably an idiot whose opinion we can safely disregard without much second thought anyway.— joeinpoole
How can I be “blaming the victim” if, as in all probability, there wasn’t actually a ‘victim’ in the first place?
How can I actually express my disbelief in Elz’s story, which happens to have more holes than a colander, without that being judged to be ‘victim blaming’ by PC morons like you?
Anyway, here’s the *actual* story. There happens to be a fat lass in Surrey who craves much more attention than her attractiveness naturally generates. So she turns to ‘social media’ to help herself out … Twitter, Facebook, blogging, etc. She picks up on the idea that the ‘cycling community’ are a generally sympathetic bunch to their kind … so then makes up a story (or massively embellishes it, probably changing the language used, the location, etc) and is incredibly successful at gaining the desired attention. Good for her. By an extraordinary co-incidence it all happened on Box Hill too (phew!) … because if it hadn’t, it wouldn’t have been newsworthy enough to generate the media’s interest.
The lesson learned here is that if you want to portray yourself in the media as a ‘cycling victim’ then it definitely helps to be female … overweight … and, probably crucially … on Box Hill in Surrey. Job done.
Joeinpoole wrote:
How can I
“How can I think the Jews had it coming, when I deny the Holocaust in the first place?”
Idiot.
Joeinpoole wrote: There
I’m hoping that this is simply trolling but I can’t let it go. I’m sorry, but this attitude is just the same as the one that is behind the incident that you think is made up. To wit, that women only have value in so far as they are attractive to men.
IMHO it’s outdated and unpleasant.
Personally familiar with the
Personally familiar with the amount of verbal abuse women receive, are you Joe? Utterly confident that nobody would say vile things to a lone woman because it’s never happened when you were there? Sure enough about the conduct of all fellow cyclists that she *must* be lying to get attention?
What about the guy who says his girlfriend gets racially abused? What about the commenter immediately after who writes:
Liars and fantasists, are they? Just making it up to harvest “like”s?
Jesus wept. What a fucking twatbag.
Would anyone be certain that
Would anyone be certain that she was “obviously” making it all up for attention if she said that motorists had shouted abuse?
And if not, why not? Because some motorists are dickheads, but no cyclist is one? Srsly?
As a species, we are very
As a species, we are very judgmental – it’s a horrible trait, I fight to avoid it myself. Here in Bedfordshire, it is not uncommon to have insults thrown at me by other cyclists – a small number, but a number nevertheless – regrading my size. I DO find that Cyclists are amongst the most size-ist of beings – even the skinniest racer calls themselves ‘fat’ – and it tends to play a part in the ego of these folk.
So, this is very sad to hear but not entirely surprising. Might it have even sounded threatening ? I hope not but as a woman out on a bike on her own that is possible. Personally, I greet insults with ‘have a nice day’ – they do not bother me. I suppose the only thing that can be done to stop this is – if you see/hear anything like this – tell the perpetrators in the strongest terms that it is not acceptable at all.
The individuals involved ? I hope their mothers are proud of them.
I guess according to some I
I guess according to some I am too fat for my bike but cowards would not pick on me I suppose.
This is about human nature and what an awful species we can be to each other.
to give an anecdote, when on a recent sportive up a 20% hill this woman (who some may say was fat) rode past me and I had to walk. I said to a rider walking with me, wow, what a person for managing that and I was envious !
Horrible people to say that.
Horrible people to say that. She’s not in any way fat judging by her twitter photos.
Sorry, I just don’t believe a
Sorry, I just don’t believe a word of this.
If it happened then it’s disgraceful behaviour. But that’s the rub; ‘if it happened’.
What’s weird is that so many people on here (and on Twitter) have blindly accepted her word as fact with not a scintilla of proof other than ‘she blogged it therefor it must be’.
Try it yourself. If you have twitter or write a blog concoct a story about being verbally abused (make it simple and believable though) and then see how many supportive responses you get.
I’m not sure about this story
I’m not sure about this story either; dreadful if true, but unlikely in my experience.
crikey wrote:I’m not sure
Are you a woman?
No, I’m not a woman.
I’m not
No, I’m not a woman.
I’m not a zoo keeper either, but I know a giraffe when I see one.
I’m a grown up and as such I am able to compare reported incidents with my own experience and in this case the strength of the language, the level of misogynist weightist abuse from one cyclist to another and the public setting seem unlikely in my experience.
(Please spare me the usual ‘you’re not a woman so you can’t possibly understand’ reply, Mr Outragedonsomeneelsesbehalf.)
crikey wrote:No, I’m not a
I’m not suggesting you can’t understand someone else’s experience if you are a different gender (race/class/sexuality whatever). This isn’t about understanding someone else’s experience, it’s about immediately doubting it just because… well I’m not sure why you would immediately doubt it to be honest. What does Elz stand to gain from lying about this? A bit of publicity, perhaps, but other than that? Seems bizarre that she would just randomly fabricate a story like this on a whim. What happened to giving someone – particularly the victim in an incident where no perpetrators have been officially identified – the benefit of the doubt?
My original point was more that your – and indeed also my – experience is probably not representative of solo female cyclists. How many female cyclists do you know who regularly cycle alone in areas where there are a high number of keen cyclists (and therefore also a higher number, if not necessarily proportion, of arsehole cyclists)? I don’t know many female cyclists, certainly not ones that cycle alone regularly along such routes, and so ‘my experience’ wouldn’t suggest that they face such abuse. In this case ‘my experience’ means jack shit. Perhaps you do know many female solo cyclists (I insist on caveating with solo because I imagine it’s easier to harass a giraffe on their own than when they are in a group) who frequent popular keen cyclist routes – in which case your experience counts for more than mine. Having said that, without robust evidence and numbers as to the occurrence of abuse during cycling alone our experience remains anecdotal and therefore incomplete.
Also bear in mind the ‘public setting’ was an otherwise empty road save for those who abused and she who got abused, so that’s hardly a factor – particularly when women face misogyny in public spaces on a fairly regular basis outside of cycling (cat-calling, anyone?) and this is fairly well evidenced beyond the realms of anecdotal experience.
It’d be interesting to see some research as to abuse whilst cycling broken down by gender, ethnicity etc. actually – anyone know of any?
Oh Lord.
All the victim
Oh Lord.
All the victim blaming and ‘do you believe this’ stuff is making me queasy.
Do I believe Elz?
Yes.
Have I been called fat by other cyclists while out on my bike? Yes.
Not by the people from my club, (Barnesbury) who are fantastic and who keep me turning up to time trials each week to finish last on the timesheet but winning my personal race with the calendar (you have to be quicker than me to race against the clock). Not from the people I ride with socially, (principally Watbike) who’re as nice a crew of people as you could meet while struggling up Winter’s Gibbet in the rain.
But yes, some cyclists, being humans, can be as nasty as humans can be. No-one makes you sit a niceness test before selling you a bike. The bloke who called me a fat roadblock on the Cyclone (I was overtaking on a country lane, but not as fast as he wanted to overtake me) was probably having a bad day, but he didn’t sound like an instructor from the local charm school. My guess is that I wasn’t his first target, and I won’t be his last, unless something is said by cyclists about not being a bully on the bike.
Why do I believe Elz? Because I reckon it could’ve happened, and the world won’t get any better if I assume it didn’t.
It’s difficult to comment on
It’s difficult to comment on this story for the reasons you’ve identified; I’m uncomfortable suggesting that it might not be true even though that’s the feeling I get.
I don’t want to be thought of as dismissing it, I do appreciate the different experiences of women compared to men and I have no direct experience of that.
There is a niggling thought when I look at the reported exchange; the language used just doesn’t ring true for me, it’s too full on, too harsh to allow me to believe it took place like that.
I could be wrong, I often am and as I said it’s a dreadful thing to have occurred.
If I heard someone say that
If I heard someone say that to someone else I would be on their case. Appalling. Probably Cycgolfers in their new gear acting like tossers.
We don’t need these idiots in our sport.
A lot of comments saying
A lot of comments saying ‘unlikely’ or ‘did it actually happen’. Well we don’t know, for once its not some vigilante with a bloody go pro so we’ll have to rely on the fact someone reported it, just like we used to in the good old days.
I have met some arseholes who happen to ride bikes and based on their character of course there are people out there who would do this. thankfully a minority.
I couldn’t give two f@*ks
I couldn’t give two f@*ks about those losers, the only important point here is Elz, if you are reading this, DON’T give up. If you do, they win.
Who are roadies (in their
Who are roadies (in their lingerie like attire) to give anyone abuse??? Road cycling isn’t exactly the most hardcore form of the sport either, pricks.
Thelma Viaduct wrote:Who are
Another fresh, recent sign up showing their distaste for someone being judgemental by being, well, massively judgemental.
Perhaps you could fill us “pricks” in on what is the “most hardcore form of the sport”?
Not some 8 stone rat wearing
Not some 8 stone rat wearing castelli lingerie, that’s for sure.
On a separate note my wife is
On a separate note my wife is Her Imperious Majesty the Queen of Sheeba.
There, I’ve typed it out and published it on the internet so it must be true. No further proof is needed.
It’s possible its made up
It’s possible its made up attention seeking – there are mentally disordered people out in the world who do weird things – there’s plenty of documented cases of people building twitter followings based on made up illnesses etc. Still, i’d say its 99.9% likely that it isn’t. There’s a whole lot more arrogant, selfish twats out there – on a ride the other day someone said to me that there were a lot of new riders bringing exactly the same attitude they had as aggressive-wanker-drivers to riding a bike. I think that’s probably true. The worse the driving environment they are used to , the worse the attitude they will bring. Hence people talking about the worse behaviour in the SE and London.
Anyway, enough hand wringing
Anyway, enough hand wringing and virtual hugs, shall we have a whip round and send her a packet of biscuits?
crikey wrote:Anyway, enough
Jesus Christ. Are you for real?
Would everybody who reckoned that cyclists wouldn’t abuse other cyclists about their weight take a good long look at this POS.
Toro Toro wrote:crikey
It’s a joke, you know like people who have a sense of humour make.
Please yourselves..
crikey wrote:Toro Toro
It’s a joke, you know like people who have a sense of humour make.
Please yourselves..— crikey
It’s a joke, about someone who has been bullied by strangers for being fat, being fat.
You know, like complete arseholes make.
Toro Toro wrote:crikey
I totally agree with this. I thought that crikey’s comment wasn’t just tasteless, it was completely shameful. You should stop embarrassing yourself, mate.
2 points.
1 – You get
2 points.
1 – You get bellends in every walk of life, this really isn’t a big deal.
2 – If a fat guy had been abused, very few people would bat an eyelid.
HalfWheeler wrote:Sorry, this
Because a lot of women I know (other than the elderly ones) seem to have fresh stories of something like this having happened almost every time I meet them.
(True, in those cases neither my friends nor their harrassers are on bikes, but I don’t see any reason to believe obnoxious people magically stop being obnoxious soon as they get on a bicycle)
It seems perfectly plausible to me. There are some aggressive arseholes out there. The only slight news to me is that it wasn’t here in London.
Apparently there are oiks outside the M25 as well! I thought the thing out there in the country was everyone being disturbingly cheery and randomly saying good morning to strangers and other such unnerving behaviour.
The correct retort in these
The correct retort in these in incidents is the time honoured
“I’m only fat because every time I sleep with your wife she gives me a biscuit”.
There’s an awful lot of
There’s an awful lot of generalising here. I’m not getting the bad cyclist/golfer comparisons. Nor how wearing Castelli makes one some kind of wanker. Or how by not being a club rider makes you a tosser of a loner. Or having a carbon bike but not being able to keep up with a grey haired superman on a steel bike makes you a lesser mortal.
I’m a golfer, I have a castelli jacket. I’m not a member of a club (though I was back in ’65), I just prefer doing my own thing. I have a carbon bike. I can’t ride fast anymore. I have rheumatoid arthritis. On a good day I can manage an average 15 mph – 10 mph at other times.
I’ve been a cyclist for over 50 years. Got my first road bike, a Raleigh Blue Streak with a 10-speed Benelux derailleur back in ’62. Jeez, I loved that bike. After 50 odd years of riding barely above entry level bikes I bought my first carbon bike this year. I wanted a quality bike while I was still able to get about. It didn’t cost thousands. I bought what I could afford.
My point is that what people do for a hobby, what they wear, who they ride with or what kind of bike they own does not make them a prat, a twat or an arsehole. I always acknowledge other cyclists with a wave or a nod and most of them return in kind. If I see one having a mechanical I always stop to see if they need help. I’ve learned from experience that most cyclists are, on the whole, courteous and civil. It’s not that long ago my wife and me were shouted at to get out of their way by a group of cyclists half our age. I’ve been sneered at outside a cafe by cycling snobs for riding an ancient bike. A few bad experiences in a cycling lifetime longer than the dickheads have been alive does not bother me.
Elz Lloyd was just unlucky to have met similar arseholes, but I doubt if their hobbies, their attire, the quality of their bikes or that they were not club members had anything to do with their complete feckin ignorance. Put it down to their poor upbringing and lack of social skills, Elz. Every once in a while we meet people who leave a bad taste but the vast majority of cyclists are respectful, polite, well mannered and, most of all, helpful if you’re in trouble.
Jacobi wrote:There’s an awful
QFT. I don’t own a carbon bike, expensive cycling kit, or a set of golf clubs. But I wouldn’t discriminate somebody for doing so. IMHO it’s just as bad as knocking someone for being overweight (a club I am actually currently a member of).
But to balance it out, I do think there’s quite a bit of selection bias going on that people are simply unaware off. I’m likely a roadblock only to faster cyclists, and they tend to own nicer kit. The only real incident I’ve ever had with another cyclist was someone in real pro attire (likely an actual local pro), but I think we both had reasons to be angry and the discussion was curt but civilized. Generalizations in and of themselves are not inherently evil, they are just the way people make sense of the world by cutting through the nuance that all humans fail to completely grasp. It is, however, sadly ironic just how often people tend to complain about stereotypes by stereotyping others.
Elz Lloyd has already said that it’s 1 out of 100 cyclists that are the problem. I’m sure she didn’t mean it literally, but I’ll take it as such; and, to be honest, that’s wouldn’t be a terrible ratio. The coincidence of having two such idiots ride along one after the other would be dismal. Yet (I believe) it happened, and it sucks. But cyclists (particularly racing fans) do tend to be a skeptical bunch, particularly on the validity of improbable events. It’s not unreasonable or bigoted to be a cynic. But it’s not hard for me to believe a woman would be abused by cowards in a way I’ve never encountered, either.
I do hope she goes back over Box Hill soon. Not to be a Rule # 5 true believer (and it can be taken too far) but idiots abound in all walks of life, and IMHO the best way to deal with them is to call them out and carry on with it.
Interesting- have some people
Interesting- have some people now moved into the realms of “If it isn’t captured on a Go Pro then it didn’t happen” ? If someone posts about bad driving, accidents, close misses etc on here no one claims that because there is no video footage then it didn’t happen.
It looks like some contributors are going down the route that they can’t believe other cyclists would do this because they are cyclists- but as has been pointed out above, you get arsewipes in all walks of life. I have seriously thought about leaving my club due to the attitudes of a small number of individuals especially when you hear the stuff they come out with when we pass females, so I can fully believe that the incidents did happen to Elz. There is only so often you can challenge this behaviour which is inevitably met with a response along the “only joking” or “don’t take things so seriously” which I see in a few comments above. However, as in most things in life, it is the idiots who are the most vocal and therefore noticeable and I have to remember the vast majority of my club mates aren’t gabshites.
So yes I do believe this happened- the language used by some posters saying she might have made it up or that she is an attention seeker is never used when fellas on here post about people shouting at them or throwing things from vehicles so, to turn some of the thinking on the head- if we believe them, why don’t you believe her?
Meh.
If this happened to my
Meh.
If this happened to my wife or my daughter or my friend I would sympathise and support them, then say ‘Would you like a biscuit?’.
Why? Because using humour is a way of defusing the situation, a way of saying ‘It’s ok, it’s a shitty thing to experience but in the Grand Scheme of things it doesn’t matter that much, lets have a laugh about it’. This approach seems to be alien to those desperate to be offended, desperate to appear so right on and PC. The more important you make it, the more seriously you take it, the more power you give to those who do it.
Anyone spotted the irony present in calling me a piece of shit on a thread about someone being insulted?
Whatever, carry on frothing.
I think you need a slice of
I think you need a slice of cake.
“PC”, or as normal people
“PC”, or as normal people call it, “not being a f*cking asshole”.
Yes, I called you a piece of shit in response to your conduct. You think that’s the same as shouting “you fat bitch” unprompted at someone as you cycle by?
God help your wife, daughter, and friends.
Dear Elz.
It makes me feel
Dear Elz.
It makes me feel terribly sad and angry to read about the insults you received.
I have been a member to a Surrey based cycling club for 2.5 years in which time a group for ladies has been included in the monthly calendar. I lead this group and it would make me very happy if you came along. Please contact me on club@pearsoncycles.co.uk if you are interested.
Kind regards
Allyson
Would you like a biscuit?
Would you like a biscuit?
Quote:It’s not unreasonable
Exactly.
If Elz wants to come and ride where I live I would be happy to take her riding and show her that cyclists here are friendly.
I reserve the right to have a sense of humour and to apply it how I see fit.
🙂
Whether or not this lady met
Whether or not this lady met them or not, I don’t know, but we all know these pricks exist.
I’m going to have to cut this
I’m going to have to cut this cake in very thin slices to feed all the po-faced folk…
I like how I’ve become public enemy number one for having a laugh, but the evil Castelli duo have got away…
crikey wrote:I’m going to
Yes, sadly there is a weird deflection of anger towards people on this site. If you don’t agree with their exact position you are cowtailed into submission…or they hope you are. Personally I didn’t find your comment very funny (but I did detect an attempt at humour). Not sure it was appropriate, but we’ve all made a bad joke or two.
I think that it is hard to believe this story, the context seems askew. What had she done to deserve the vitriol?! But then some people are odd, and feel they can abuse people. Strange that we have an eye witness who just happened to log in to discuss things, but maybe the event made them want to join a forum to discuss what they heard.
I sort of feel the gaze of the Internet microscope has magnified what seems to be an unusual event. For me the regular RLJ-ing by cyclists appears to be a real issue – I’ve changed my commuting times of late and note that the number of RLJ-ing increases the closer to time that work starts. Otherwise riders seem much more respectful of lights and other road users…..people late for work/appointment flout rules – who knew?!
as a curvier plus size lass
as a curvier plus size lass myself, I can assure the skeptics collective this stuff does happen, its certainly happened to me on more than one occasion, though its fortunately infrequent, and the vast majority of cyclists you meet are generally friendly people. but I certainly know exactly how Elz feels and how upsetting it can be as a situation when it occurs
ultimately cycling as an activity does attract a cross section of all people of all types, and some people are just total aerosols.
Box Hill is nowt – hardly
Box Hill is nowt – hardly deserves the name ‘Hill’. I went up earlier this year on a Sportive.
When I mentioned ‘cycling ethos’ on this site some months ago, (it was comments on a loudspeaker sound system for a bicycle) I was set upon.
Why would you make a derogatory remark like that to a fellow cyclist on the road?
The hard men of road cycling, top professionals, are the nicest people in the world. Where do these others, often on expensive machines and in expensive lycra, come from?
It’s bullying behaviour and sad.
Joeinpoole wrote:Knowing the
Clearly, one might argue, you don’t know this ‘community’ as well as you think. That said, it does seem at least you’ve worked out that you can stop any such reports of poor behaviour – prevalent in most other sizeable groups of sporty humans i’ve ever met – from gaining legitimacy by insisting “it never happened Guv”… but of course, that way madness lies.
I’d have just yelled ” Get
I’d have just yelled ” Get yer fookin socks out of yer pervy lycra panties…” :))
I like cake and biscuits in
I like cake and biscuits in fact on a recent ride i had 8 free cakes in a village hall 2 cups of tea and a banana. 🙂
Good for you, your my kind of
Good for you, your my kind of cyclist and you have a sense of humour
oh look, the usual suspects
oh look, the usual suspects are doubting a woman’s report of sexist abuse…
Joeinpoole- sexist or
Joeinpoole- sexist or mysoginist? Tough call.
paulfg42 wrote:Joeinpoole-
there’s no “or” about it.
Well you sound like every
Well you sound like every mans dream… breasts and curves .. please keep on cycling and show those cavemen that you are above their childish cruel jibes, from another lady with breasts and curves x
Fat-shaming isn’t exclusive
Fat-shaming isn’t exclusive to women, Ernest Gagnon gets a bit of it as well. He’s the very large guy who’s taking to cycling to get it off:
https://www.facebook.com/ernestgagnoncyclist?ref=ts&fref=ts
Bloody inspiration if you ask me, but some people will always hate.