British Cycling policy advisor Chris Boardman says it’s time for the cycling community to put the debate about mandatory cycle helmets to bed and get across the message that helmet use is one of the least important cycling safety measures.
Even talking about making helmets mandatory “massively puts people off” cycling, Boardman said, and likened the culture of helmet use among keen cyclists to people wearing body armour because they have got used to being shot at.
Talking to road.cc at the London Bike Show, Boardman said, “I think the helmet issue is a massive red herring. It’s not even in the top 10 of things you need to do to keep cycling safe or more widely, save the most lives.”
You’re being shot at, put on body armour
Boardman returned to an analogy he has made before, and which even he admits is a bit melodramatic, though it gets the point across
“It’s a bit like saying ‘people are sniping at you going down this street, so put some body armour on,’” he said.
Government encouragement to wear helmets was therefore “a big campaign to get people to wear body armour, by the people who should be stopping the shooting.”
Widespread use of helmets, he said, sends the wrong message.
“Once you see somebody wearing body armour, even if there’s no shooting, you think ‘Christ I’m not going down there if they’re wearing body armour to go down that street.’ It scares people off.”
There’s a better solution to the problem of cycle safety, Boardman said. In the Netherlands, just 0.8 percent of cyclists wear helmets yet the Dutch have the lowest rate of cycling head injury, thanks to segregated cycling infrastructure. Thirty percent of journeys in the Netherlands are made by bike, he said, and 50 percent of children’s journey to school.
”The best way to deal with [the head injury issue] is what the Dutch have done,” he said. “Where you have the Highest rate of helmet use, you also have the highest rate of head injury: us and the US.”
Yet there’s also an almost-fanatical, knee-jerk devotion to helmet use among enthusiast and sporting cyclists.
Boardman said: “People who are wearing body armour get used to being shot at, when it’s the getting shot at that’s the problem.”
A distraction
Talking about helmets had become a time-consuming distraction, he said. “We’ve got to tackle the helmet debate head on because it’s so annoying,” he said. “It gets a disproportionate amount of coverage. When you have three minutes and someone asks ‘Do you wear a helmet’ you know the vast majority of your time when you could be talking about stuff that will make a difference, is gone.”
He said the focus on helmets had made cycling seem more dangerous than it really is.
“We’ve gone away from the facts,” he said. “We’ve gone to anecdotes. It’s like shark attacks – more people are killed building sandcastles than are killed by sharks. It’s just ludicrous that the facts aren’t matching up with the actions because the press focus, naturally, on the news stories, and [the notion that cycling is dangerous] becomes the norm, and it isn’t the norm.
“You can ride a thousand times round the planet for each cycling death. You are safer than gardening.”
Cycling’s image
Like many cycling advocates, Boardman wants to see cycling presented as a normal, everyday activity.
“I saw two people riding down the hill to my village. One person coming down the hill to go for the train in high-viz, helmet on.
“A few moments later another guy came down, in shirt sleeves, with a leather bag on his back, just riding his bike to the station.
“Which one of those makes me want to [ride]?”





















198 thoughts on “Chris Boardman: “Helmets not even in top 10 of things that keep cycling safe””
Well said Chris
Well said Chris
totally the correct approach.
totally the correct approach. Helmets are a reaction to the problem not the solution to the problem
Why o why can’t we have more
Why o why can’t we have more people in power in this country with this sort of pragmatic outlook ?
The more comment I hear from
The more comment I hear from Boardman the more I believe he needs to be our cycling Tsar, good lad
I really agree with that.
I really agree with that. Helmet most strongly advocated by people who don’t ride bikes that often. I think it is time that calm common sense prevails.
Hes certainly on the money,
Hes certainly on the money, he needs an official government position with lots of clout.
Good points. I think back to
Good points. I think back to when I cycled to school in the 80s; didn’t know what helmets or high viz was. What’s changed? Some parallels to the ski helmet debate here. Everyone’s wearing them but the overall skiing injury statistics say they haven’t made a difference.
I cycled to school in the 80s
I cycled to school in the 80s too, cranially naked. Must be said though, there’s a fuckload of extra traffic, with more distracted drivers too, and a different culture and attitude to risk.
I agree with CB though.
Shades wrote:Good points. I
[quote=Shades]Good points. I think back to when I cycled to school in the 80s; didn’t know what helmets or high viz was. What’s changed?quote]
1) Mobile phones
2) More cars and more school-run mums
3) Bigger bendier buses
4) More complicated road junctions
5) More stressy commuters
6) etc etc etc
N.B. I’m pro helmet but not pro-forcing their use.
Boardman for Prime Minister
Boardman for Prime Minister =D>
To be clear, he is anti
To be clear, he is anti mandatory helmet wearing, not anti helmet wearing per se. (would be hypocritical of him if he was, given the fact that he sells them!)
He is also rightly pointing out that the helmet focus should not be used as an excuse for our road safety.
So I wholeheartedly agree, just don’t spin this to support a different agenda!
I agree that the debate needs
I agree that the debate needs to be on the back burner. But we all need to keep pointing out that helmets are somewhat useful when you fall off your bike say when mountainbiking or when in a competitive race. They are only rated for 50 joules of impact so provide more of a protection agaist scrapes and cuts than impact. The best ones brand new get you about 75 joules.
They are completely useless in providing impact protection for your head if you are hit by a car. In that case the force being applied is 40,000 joules and upwards. (that’s a smart with a small passenger car doing 22mph)
Make it a range Rover with family in it doing 40mph and that 500,000 joules against your 50 joules of protection.
Like I said if you come off in a sprint finish it will save you a nasty cut and a graze. That’s what it is for.
Let’s all keep pointing that out to people shall we?
oozaveared wrote:I agree that
I don’t think anyone would say otherwise. The issue is with those who perceive cycling as a uniformly dangerous activity, and overestimate the ability of helmets to reduce this misperceived risk.
Well…I’d have died 3 days
Well…I’d have died 3 days before Christmas if I didn’t have a helmet on…try telling me they’re a bad idea.
KGoslan wrote:Well…I’d have
That is what is known within scientific circles as “anecdotal evidence” and is of very little value.
You may as well have said, “Helmets are a good idea because a bloke down the pub said!”.
KGoslan wrote:Well…I’d have
Prove the helmet saved your life.
you crashed, you were wearing a helmet, those are definites.
Now did the helmet hinder, help, make a difference no one knows, it may have prevented a few scrapes but that is about all you can say.
I crashed a few weeks back whilst wearing a helmet landed on my face, glasses cut into my cheek. S*** happens.
If you want to prove the helmet saved your life i suggest you repeat the experiment this time without a helmet on, remember you must not adjust your riding style or speed, you must arrange for all parties to be exactly the same, same time of day, location of clouds etc.
In science you repeat experiments before you draw a conclusion.
* note the bit where he says countries with higher helmet wearing levels also have higher levels of head trauma. Causation or coincidence? Does making a helmet mean you are more likely to get a head injury than not wearing a helmet…..
And this is the same nonsense
And this is the same nonsense abuse of “science” that Boardman uses to make his case. The road designs, cultures, laws etc are all different. Therefore comparing helmet use to other countries is meaningless. It is like saying that speaking german makes you immune to head injuries because german-speaking cyclists have less accidents.
If you want to compare similar samples try pro-riders over time. Same conditions, same roads, same speeds, same weather. Many less head injuries in the last decade.
kevinmorice wrote:
If you
Do you have a reference for this? I have heard the reverse.
kevinmorice wrote:
If you
I thought so.
“The Union Cycliste Internationale, the governing body for international cycle sport, made cycle helmets mandatory on May 5 2003 although helmet use had been increasing voluntarily since the 1990s. However, there have been more fatalities to cyclists in races since implementation of the helmet rule than in any recent decade (Wiki, 1).
Decade 1920s 1930s 1940s 1950s 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s 2010-11
Deaths 6 9 2 8 4 4 5 3 10 2”
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1213.html
kevinmorice wrote:And this is
Here’s a report http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-headlines/no-evidence-cycle-helmet-laws-reduce-head-injuries-study-finds-1.1281887 of a study done in Canada by an academic who clearly expected to find evidence of an effect of compulsion, but failed and now admits it is complexer than that. Sorry it’s not a direct link to the paper, but I’m off out on the cross bike (with hat, because I’m going offroad, where they probably are useful).
kevinmorice wrote:If you want
Really?
Where is your evidence of this “fact”?
I’m glad you were wearing a
I’m glad you were wearing a helmet and it saved you from injury. I wear a helmet and always will, and I make my kids wear them as well. If others chose not to though, that’s their business as far as i am concerned.
However, Chris doesn’t say they are a bad idea, which is what you suggest. He just says that they aren’t as important as more fundamental improvements to cycling infrastructure and that they have assumed an entirely disproportionate significance to the cycling safety debate.
Actually in many of his
Actually in many of his debates he does say they are a bad idea. He quotes statistics from other road systems and cultures where they have less accidents and no helmets as being proof that helmets ’cause’ accidents. He claims that drivers treat helmeted riders differently and consequently take less care.
And on the subject of not caring about whether other cyclists wear helmets. What if you are the driver that he rides in front of, or the first person on the scene that has to give first aid? Would you rather deal with a mild concussion and some broken bones, a crushed skull or a corpse?
KGoslan wrote:Well…I’d have
My colleague is off work long-term sick because she slipped and bumped her head at the office party. If only she’d been wearing a helmet…
Seriously though, you and I have made the choice to wear helmets. However, I reserve the right to NOT be criminalised should I choose not to one day for whatever reason.
KGoslan wrote:Well…I’d have
The same probably goes for me last year, but that’s not the debate and not what Boardman seems to be saying – like a few other people round here it seems I wear a helmet but am against making it mandatory.
KGoslan wrote:Well…I’d have
Well… you don’t actually know that. And he isn’t trying to stop you, or anyone else, wearing a helmet. He’s simply pointing out the rather obvious facts that; first, there are vastly more important safety gains to be had than can be made by compelling helmet use; and second, focusing on the danger of cycling does nothing to get people out of cars and on to bikes.
KGoslan wrote:Well…I’d have
were you a nine-year-old girl cycling to school at that point? or a granny on her way to the shops?
probably not, i’m going to take a punt and guess that you’re a fairly fit adult male and you were on a road bike of some description. apologies if i’ve missed the mark there.
the voices that cry, ‘look at me i could have died’ are predominantly from that demographic. and this really isn’t about them. at all. those people will cycle anyway, and are used to taking the precautions they deem necessary. the people who are missing from bikes in the UK are kids, and grannies, and ‘normal’ people who’d like to cycle but can’t because they feel the conditions are too dangerous, which is completely understandable. no amount of helmet complusion is going to get them cycling. It’ll cut their numbers even further.
it is, like chris says, a massive red herring. it won’t make for safe cycling for normal people. because those people won’t cycle if cycling is deemed sufficiently dangerous for a helmet to be mandated. isn’t that obvious? it is to me.
KGoslan wrote:Well…I’d have
A few years ago I had a bad crash and broke my back. I spent 6 weeks in motionless bed rest waiting for the bones in my back to heal. Without fail, everyone who visited me said “it’s a good job you had your helmet on”.
KGoslan wrote:Well…I’d have
No you wouldn’t. I expect like a lot of people that claim this, you had a crash of some sort, your helmet took an impact and split or cracked and you put two and two together and decided the answer was five. ie you concluded that the helmet split so with that would have been your head that had split.
That’s voodoo science.
The British, EU and American standard for impact protection is 50 joules. The very best and brand new and perfectly fitted reach 75 – 100 joules. They are supposed to work by using the styrofoam shell to compress and absorb impact. Only frontal impact though not oblique or rotational.
So my friend if your helmet cracked as mine did when I whacked my head mountainbiking in North Wales, then your helmet did not actually work. The impact was too great. When the forces are that large the helmet will compress and break in around 1/1000th of a second. The absorption of the initial force during this very short period is therefore less than the rating of 50 joules. It didn’t even provide the minimum protection from impact though it may have saved you having a cut or a graze.
The formula for energy in an impact is Mass times Velocity squared over two. M x V2 /2
Do the maths yourself or look up my other posts.
can we see the video of your
can we see the video of your interview with CB?
As usual, Chris Boardman is
As usual, Chris Boardman is absolutely correct in trying to get debate back to what it should be about, and correct at pointing out what a massive red herring helmets are.
Unfortunately, as some comments above indicate, being sensible is not what helmet advocacy is about. There needs to be a more forceful reference to the evidence to show what the problems of helmet advocacy, let alone compulsion, can be. I have a stab here: http://rdrf.org.uk/2013/12/27/the-effects-of-new-zealands-cycle-helmet-law-the-evidence-and-what-it-means/
Your use of capitals and
Your use of capitals and american terms to signal the end of a sentence convinces me.
UNTIL WE HAVE SEGREGATED
UNTIL WE HAVE SEGREGATED ROADS LIKE HOLLAND (ie never!) THEN HELMETS MUST BE WORN
I have fallen & broken 3-4 helmets in recent years, but NOT BROKEN MY SKULL YET
Cav has fallen & broken several helmets BUT NOT BROKEN HIS SKULL YET!
IF YOU WANT TO SMASH your skull instead of a cheap replacement plastic ‘head thing’ go ahead, be foolish, and don’t wear one – but on the current dangerous UK roads (Cars and appaling ‘third world’ pot holes etc) it makes sense to wear one…..PERIOD
Clive
septic77 wrote:UNTIL WE HAVE
Fine, wear a helmet, no one is stopping you. But the shouting isn’t useful, really.
By the way, I’ve also fallen of a few times in 40 years of cycling – 0 broken skulls and 0 broken helmets. Not convinced this proves anything at all, but my anecdote is surely as good as yours.
septic77 wrote: to wear
“Period”? Are you an American? I see you call yourself “septic”.
septic77 wrote:I have fallen
Yes, isn’t it amazing how even when helmets clearly fail, people still credit them with saving their life? Skulls are rather tougher than helmets. I have had three bike crashes that left me unconscious. Have a guess how many of these happened while I was wearing a helmet? Clue: greater than zero, less than three.
When you crash while wearing one, the A&E doctor tells you it saved your life. When you crash while not wearing one, the A&E doctor tells you that you’re lucky to be alive and should wear a helmet in future.
And that, as far as I can tell, is the sum total of the difference in outcomes between helmeted and unhelmeted crashes!
septic77 wrote:UNTIL WE HAVE
Is Dutch tarmac softer than ours?
Are their segregated roads made of some magical substance?
By your logic :-
Fall off in on a segregated road in Holland without a helmet you’ll be alright.
Fall off on a British road without a helmet you will definitely die.
I am on the list of “helmet
I am on the list of “helmet saved my life” people, so I agree that there should be no further discussion about helmet use. It should be the law. No debate from me on that much.
Car insurance increases driver carelessness, but it is still the law to have it. Drunk driving isn’t in the top-10 causes of car accidents, but again, it is illegal.
And to stick with the drunk driving example as a much better example than his shooting analogy. It is easy to measure, easy to enforce, and it can be fixed relatively simply by peer pressure.
The rest of his top-10 are all multi-million pound fixes in road or vehicle design, or practically impossible like changing driver culture.
PS Anyone put off riding a bike by being told to wear a helmet was actively looking for an excuse not to ride.
kevinmorice wrote:I am on the
Yes, demanding that cyclists wear helmets is indeed easier than fixing our roads, or building cycle routes, or persuading people to drive less and more carefully. Just a shame there’s bugger all evidence that it works.
kevinmorice wrote:I am on the
{{citation needed}}.
There are vastly more people, proportionally, who claim that helmets saved their lives, than people who are seriously injured while riding unhelmeted.
So either the helmets make you very very much more likely to crash, or people are engaging in perfectly normal human behaviour, congratulating themselves on how smart they are and reinforcing their own belief.
After all, it’s not that long since people genuinely credited St. Christopher for a safe journey.
One thing is certain: the actual figure from real cyclist populations steadfastly refuses to show any correlation between helmet wearing rates and head injury rates. It’s almost as if they are only specified for the equivalent of a simple fall from a stationary or slow moving bike, i.e. roughly equivalent to falling over (i.e. the very case for which our skulls evolved).
Oh, wait, they are.
kevinmorice wrote:
No such list exists. HTH.
Not wearing a helmet saved my
Not wearing a helmet saved my life today. I wasn’t wearing one, and I’m alive.
Not shagging your mum today
Not shagging your mum today saved my life. Won’t stop me trying it tomorrow.
Same logic.
The easiest way for the
The easiest way for the authorities to ensure nothing gets done is to give Mr Boardman an official position.
How brilliant; he says stop
How brilliant; he says stop debating the issue … and you all use this as an excuse to …
Make your own choice about whether you want to wear one and do that. Then keep your mouth shut and stop trying to convince others that you have made the correct decision and them the wrong one.
And yes, I am aware of the irony of deriding the debates on forums by using a forum.
“We’ve gone away from the
“We’ve gone away from the facts,” he said. “We’ve gone to anecdotes.
But all of the counter arguments are themselves anecdotes.
“Where you have the Highest rate of helmet use, you also have the highest rate of head injury: us and the US.”
That is a logical fallacy (deductive or logical)
e.g.
1. All birds have beaks
2. all beaked animals are birds (which is wrongly deduced (think octopus)).
The implication is because we have a higher rate of helmet use in the UK & US is that we have more accidents, that is a massive logical faux pas.
Going back, if you were to take up the body armour gambit, do you see UN peacekeepers strolling around without body armour as the politicians try to thrash out a lasting peace in a war torn area – nope they increase their protection towards themselves with body armour until it is safe not to….
I would love to feel i did not need to go out without a crash helmet on, but i do not with the complete disrespect motorists show to cyclists in the UK. Cycling in France was a pleasure by comparison to metropolitan London and but for the fact i was in an organised sponsored ride whose insurance required the wearing of helmets, i would have felt safe enough not to need one.
DaveHemm wrote:
“Where you
If you read the posts you will find noone made that deduction. The claim has never been that the high rate of helmet wearing or compulsion causes dangerous road conditions for cyclists.
The obvious deduction is that helmets have not made cycling in NZ, Oz or USA as safe as N or Dk. By a long long way.
A more tenuous conclusion is that helmet laws and wearing are a reaction to dangerous road conditions, and a reaction which does not work as well as whatever it is that makes some countries much safer.
I suspect (not a deduction) that helmets are a diversion or decoy which helps distract from measures which would work, As Boardman said.
DaveHemm wrote:
“Where you
Is more a counterpoint to this asserted premise above that all birds have beaks: “in fact in these countries you see a large number of beakless birds”.
Describe a typical cyclist. A
Describe a typical cyclist. A racer, head down and piling on the pressure? An audaxer? A city gent on a Brompton? Mrs. Miggins on the way to the pie shop? A young and trendy Kensington mum on a Dutch bike? Someone taking a five minute trip on a Boris bike? A mountain biker on singletrack?
Why on earth would anyone assume that all these cases have similar risk profiles and should use similar protective equipment? Does anyone other than The Stig use a full face helmet, fireproof suit and five-point harness when driving to the shops?
I freakin love Chris Boardman
I freakin love Chris Boardman
:X
Helmets do help in some
Helmets do help in some situations, as I’ve come to experience. If they would not look so dorky, people would use them more often.
Won’t help much when you get run over by a lorry, though, no matter how the helmet looks… and poor planning will make even small cities unsafe. I live in a place with about 60 000 people. Right now a roundabout is being built for a cool 40 to 50 million euros or so… but the roundabout only goes around a nearby suburban area and does not extend around the main town, all heavy traffic still will go right through it. The whole thing seems like a useless exercise in politics.
This from Finland, so a bit off-topic. Still, the problems are pretty much universal.
I was pissed and cycling down
I was pissed and cycling down Oxford Street pretty fast. Hit a pothole, flew very hard over the handlebars, off the road onto the pavement, missing a railing by centimetres. If I had been wearing a helmet, it would have caught the railing and viciously whipped my head back and round, causing untold injury. Does this form a reasonable argument for making it illegal to wear a helmet?
All these arguments on
All these arguments on helmets just show what CB is getting on about! Hours spent obsessing on this subject when we need to debate the real reasons why cycling is still a minority transport mode in this country. Let’s discuss negative media coverage, crap cycle ways, lack of government funding, cultural attachment to tin boxes etc etc.
As CB says, a huge smelly red herring.
PS I always wear a helmet but can’t say it make me feel safe
for the pro helmet brigade,
for the pro helmet brigade, question would you rather get hit by a car or not hit by a car.
Now once we sort the car problem we can start discussing whether there is any point to helmets, BUT NOT BEFORE!!!!
mrmo wrote:for the pro helmet
Equally, would I prefer to fall of my motorcycle in full leathers, body armour, spine protector and high-end Arai lid, or fall off my motorbike in t shirt and shorts? The answer, obviously is that I’d prefer to NOT fall off, but while I acknowledge that regardless of what I wear I may still end up as a long red streak with a meaty blob at the end of it, at least the PPE may improve my chances a bit if I fuck up, hit a patch of diesel, have some form of mechancal failure, or any other random occurrence that may happen.
I can and do apply the same rationale to my bicycle helmets.
Shall we scrap speed limits until we sort out bad drivers?
allez neg wrote:
Equally,
You are free to wear whatever you wish, on bike or motorbike. Just don’t try to force or scare me into doing what you do.
By the way, would you ride your motorbike differently in t shirt and shorts, rather than in full gear?
I suspect you would be more careful.
PPE is always the last step
PPE is always the last step of the risk assessment process.
The risk is not falling off the bike. the risk is being hit by a car or a truck. Deal with the problem, helmets aren’t much good against a 40T truck anyway!!!
If your racing then helmets might reduce the risk and make some sense( not a great deal as design spec is crap) but riding to the shops, treating bikes as urban transport!
Do we demand pedestrians wear helmets? Do we demand drivers wear overalls and helmets? both would save lives!
How about helmets in the bath, dangerous places, lots of slips, lots of A&E admissions!
What if you are the parent of
What if you are the parent of a child that has fallen over , or the first person on the scene that has to give first aid? Would you rather deal with a mild concussion and some broken bones, a crushed skull or a corpse?
Equal justification for making the Thudguard infant helmet compulsory
Equal justification for the compulsory use of pedestrian helmets
I assume that all those using emotive bullying will be supporting both the Thudguard and pedestrian helmets
After all the following applies to both children and pedestrians
Or are we back to the “only cyclists suffer head injuries…… pedestrian and child head injuries are somehow less painful, less traumatic and not worth preventing
Oh and look how much time
Oh and look how much time everyone is wasting discussing helmets again, how many letters to papers, tv, MPs, MEPs, ASMs etc etc etc could have been written demanding improved cycle provision, proper cycle routes, a change in the law demanding presumed liability etc etc.
But no lets blame cyclists for being stupid, for not wearing full body armour and helmets. It is not the poor drivers fault that the stupid cyclist happened to be riding in the road, it is not the drivers fault he had to overtake on a blind bend, It is not the drivers fault he had an important phone call to take, it is not the drivers fault he had had a couple of pints…..
No it is the stupid cyclists fault that he had the stupidity to ride on the road and get hit!!!!!!
mrmo wrote:Oh and look how
I’m not disagreeing but would a non-cyclist politician type look at this list of costly demands and think “well, these cyclists want all this from us, but can’t even be arsed to spend £30 on a helmet? Naah, fuck ’em”
allez neg wrote:
I’m not
What happens is that the politician is faced with demands to make cycling safer, looks at the need to spend money and to do something about drivers’ tendency to kill and realises that a helmet law would be much cheaper.
“Something must be done.
This is something.
Lets do it.”
Does not matter that laws have never worked, except to reduce cycling.
Anyhow, I reckon it’s obesity
Anyhow, I reckon it’s obesity and shit weather that puts people off cycling, not the dangers, real or perceived.
Lets look at compulsory salads and banning gay marriage (which incurs God’s wrath resulting in the floods as punishment, UKIP told me so) before we get bogged-down in polystyrene pisspots.
I’m playing devils advocate
I’m playing devils advocate here so bear with me….
In the past people have quoted surgeons dr’s saying they are good to wear because of xyz….its shot down by forum users as they are not engineers, brain / trauma experts etc etc.
Now,
You have CB hear who has virtually no knowledge of brain trauma etc etc (as far as i’m aware) saying the exact opposite and suddenly we have a multitude of forum users saying “well done, exactly right”.
Either you dont want to believe that helmets are any good or some people are sheep and want to follow the leader ????
As a complete coincidence today an incident came in whereby a council worker, without looking, grabbed a spade and hoisted it over his shoulder and turned around from the side of the wagon. The blade of the spade caught a cyclist across his forehead as he passed by and would have done quite a nasty injury had he not had a helmet on. Lucky lad
stumps wrote:
As a complete
A superb example of what CB is saying…..
What action was taken about the Council worker?
Was he reprimanded for his stupidity, failure to “exercise a duty of care” what steps are being taken to prevent him doing the same again?
.. and of course lets look at a different scenario….
As a complete coincidence today an incident came in whereby a council worker, without looking, grabbed a spade and hoisted it over his shoulder and turned around from the side of the wagon. The blade of the spade caught a pedestrian across his forehead as he passed by and caused a nasty injury….. silly pedestrian should have known better and worn a helmet
Stumps,
Some things are
Stumps,
Some things are facts. They are true regardless of who says them, they are true regardless of who argues against them. We don’t always have time to evaluate what is and what is not fact from first principles and ground truth, in all cases. So, very often we take the authority of people making a claim into consideration when evaluating something. Normal thing to do.
Doctors and surgeons are authority figures, not without good reason. They’re relatively well educated in a certain field, and they have an appreciation of science – though, many don’t have a full appreciation. That authority however comes from having studied knowledge acquired from, largely, scientifically evaluated results.
So when doctors and surgeons say “I’ve seen many cyclists in my hospital, and I am sure helmets save lives” or – worse – someone on a forum says “I went to the hospital and my doctor said my helmet saved me”, other people may be inclined to believe this is meaningful. However, it isn’t. It fails some obvious scientific and statistical criteria. It’s an anecdote. It’s not been systematically analysed to control for biases, in the environment, the people, etc.. Doctors are subject to biases like any other humans – including scientists, hence why you need to control for these things! We need rigorous, scientific analysis precisely because long experience has taught us how often we can be led badly astray by our feelings.
A doctor reporting their anecdotal view is far from a scientific fact. When a doctor reports these things and claims certainty, they are straying far from science. They really should know better, but they’re also human. Just because they’re an authority figure, it doesn’t make their anecdotal views any more true.
On the other hand, when someone reports an easily verifiable fact, you don’t need to care who they are. You can just verify that fact for yourself. It doesn’t matter who Chris Boardman is, or what his education is, because you can look up the official statistics for yourself. You can verify his claim about helmet use in the NL just by visiting the country, hell, or just by looking on Youtube.
That the Netherlands has very low helmet use, with very high rates of cycling (particularly ordinary, non-sport cycling), while the US and UK have the opposite; and that the Netherlands has much lower rates of death and injury are uncontroversial facts. You don’t need to take it on trust from Boardman.
Indeed, it’s precisely *when* someone claims something and expects you to take it on trust because of the position/status/education of the person making the claim, that you should be suspicious!
I can’t resist piling in, so
I can’t resist piling in, so I apologise in advance.
I wish there were a central source of the research into the efficacy of bike helmets in …. oh hold on. What do we think they do for us?
If we dont want to get damaged when out cycling, just like any other risk analysis there are two components :
1) likelihood of the event happening, and
2) seriousness when it does.
So looking at 1) does a helmet mean it is more or less likely we’ll have an accident? There’s a bit of partial research i’m aware of (feel free to cite more) that suggests you’re very slightly more likely. But I would be happy to claim without citing anything that the majority of influences on our likelihood of having an accident are more highly influenced by factors out of our control – such as : drivers, infrastructure, oil on the road, etc etc.
and 2) well, if you bash your head on a kerb/rock in particular ways, then yes there can be benefits to be had wearing a helmet. However, do the majority of incidents involve this? That is something for which I have no data, and if you don’t have a serious accident, it certainly isn’t recorded anywhere. Of that proportion of accidents where you hit your helmet (in my experience of crashing in various ways, 0%, but that is anecdotal) what proportion would be affected by wearing a helmet in such a way as to significantly change the outcome? I’m not aware that there is any strong data to draw on to answer that question either.
Added to that, as has been mentioned lots of times, helmets are not meant to protect you against everything head related. If you hit a wall, you could break your neck wearing a helmet or not. Likewise, above a certain speed, it wont help (i.e. an 80kph dismount into a wall).
So it seems to me that we are basically speculating on the efficacy of helmets at a population level, because we don’t have any strong data to go on.
What we can be clear about is that if you don’t have an accident in the first place you don’t need to tie yourself in mental knots about the effectiveness of helmets. And, for most commuters, that is out of their control and comes back to all the other things Mr Boardman is referring to.
I’ve never thought in terms of wearing helmets scaring people off, but I can sort of imagine it. In which case, better infrastructure rather than helmet legislation surely moves up the list as a solution to the question of how we get more people on bikes and out of cars, and how less of them (especially the new, uncertain and unskilled ones) end up experiencing some form of painful and unpleasant incident. Wearing a helmet and being knocked off by a car will still put people off cycling. Cycling and not being knocked off will not.
(For the avoidance of doubt, I do wear a helmet most of the time. I know it wont make any positive or negative difference 99.99% of the time. )
I’m 100% against compulsion : the idea that ‘if it saves one life its worth it’ doesn’t, to me, work at a population level. I see it as a question of the best use of resources – to improve infrastructure / driving standards / etc etc to stop accidents happening, or to spend that money on enforcing prosecutions against cyclists for not wearing a helmet, thereby making it more likely that they are involved in an accident in the first place. In fact, both of those approaches can save lives – which is the most efficient? The first one requires a bigger spend, so it needs to produce much bigger results. And how do we even measure these things? I bet its relatively simple to calculate the average miles per fatality per car journey because you can tell from fuel sales roughly how many miles are driven. How do you tell how many miles are cycled?
But to tie it in to the bigger picture – which one will encourage more people to cycle, and make us all a healthier, happier nation?
Thank you for your attention. Please flame away.
Edster, you do a lot of
Edster, you do a lot of speculation. If you want to inform yourself about what evidence there is, take a look at http://www.cyclehelmets.org/
This site looks at all the studies they can find, and discusses them. Though their conclusion is clear, it does list pro and anti evidence.
Figures for miles cycled are typically taken from government statistics as are deaths. The method of collection is given. The method does not change so any errors will be consistent.
For fairness I would refer you to http://www.bhit.org/ but perhaps the comparison is unfair.
felixcat wrote:Edster, you do
thanks for that… I will 🙂
Edit : I just did. fascinating. That particular site seems to have also been interested in exactly the questions I was asking myself.
edster99 wrote:
thanks for
Thank you for looking. I sometimes feel that I am banging my head on a brick wall asking people to look at the evidence: few are open minded enough, most want to confirm their prior conclusion. But occasionally someone does follow the science, and changes their mind.
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/
Excellent website.
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1261.html
Interesting that Dutch cyclists with head injuries are more likely to be wearing helmets.
I’ll carry on wearing a helmet when racing (no choice anyway) and when training, but maybe I’ll be less obsessive about wearing a helmet when using my bike for transport.
I’d echo the comments that a mandatory helmet law would save more lives if mandatory for motorists and pedestrians and people drinking heavily.
edster99 wrote:I can’t resist
Great post. Especially separating the two involved probabilities both of which might be affected by the population treatment.
I forgot to add, i’m totally
I forgot to add, i’m totally against mandatory helmet use for no other reason than it wouldn’t work.
stumps wrote:I forgot to add,
You are dead right. In countries where helmets have been mandated the wearing rate has typically increased from thirty odd percent to well over ninety per cent. In none of them has there been any reduction in cyclist head injury rate.
Here is a graph of the effects of the law in NZ.
http://rdrf.org.uk/2013/12/17/the-effects-of-new-zealands-cycle-helmet-law/
Off-road, especially stuff
Off-road, especially stuff like forest runs etc I wear a skid-lid – figure I might whack my head off an overhang or a slow fall onto rocks or stumps. Makes sense.
On-road the biggest hazard if one is a competent cyclist is ing hit by motorised traffic. A skid-lid will do little at the speeds/energies imparted in a bad collision. Yet research shows drivers are more careful around non-helmet wearing cyclists.
On that basis I don’t wear a helmet that often on road. That’s my choice and I’d prefer it to continue to be my choice – mandatory helmet-wearing is just an easy fix for politicians who don’t want to pay for making the roads safer/separating traffic and instead wish to shift the blame for safety onto the cyclist . Rather unfair imo.
I’ve just re read the
I’ve just re read the article. Perhaps he’s not as sensible as I first thought. Is he seriously suggesting that people in the UK would be safer if they didn’t wear helmets? More people would cycle if they didn’t wear helmets and highly visible clothing?
He sells the bloody things!
I understand what he’s getting at but this is the UK and not Holland
He seems to be making dangerous leap of logic and confusing cause and effect.
Or perhaps he’s been quoted out of context. There is a strong anti helmet spin to this article and I am aware that the author is not a helmet supporter, based on previous articles
700c wrote:
I understand what
WHY?
a very very simple question, why can’t the UK follow the Dutch? the Danes? and actually improve the environment for cyclists.
mrmo wrote:700c wrote:
I
WHY?
a very very simple question, why can’t the UK follow the Dutch? the Danes? and actually improve the environment for cyclists.— 700c
I’m not saying we can’t aspire to something ‘Dutch’, just that it would be foolish to stop wearing PPE until we have the infrastructure. Currently the UK’s roads, particularly at rush hour, are very busy and not always safe.
Saying that more people should ditch the PPE to encourage cycling as a hassle free, accessible way to travel, BEFORE we’ve sorted out the infrastructure and culture is bonkers.
Like I say, I really think this has been taken out of context. Why would a helmet manufacturer, such as Boardman, be saying ‘ditch the helmet’? Can I sue him once I’ve come off my bike having shelved my Boardman helmet?! Or should I sue now for selling me an ‘unsafe’ product?!
Answer – he’s not saying that, but so many here have an anti helmet agenda that they’re prepared to believe that this backs up their choice.
700c wrote:
Can I sue him
Cognitive bias. There are plenty of cases where helmets have not saved cyclists from death or head injury. Should they (the survivors) sue because they were told that helmets work? In fact you will find that helmet manufacturers are very careful not to claim that helmets will save you.
In the case where you decided on advice to not wear a foam hat you would have to prove a helmet would have saved you, which is impossible, of course.
The most convincing studies are whole population studies, as in a country where the law has produced a large increase in wearing. As I have repeatedly written, there is no state where a law has produced a change in cyclist head injury rates.
I respect Boardman for his truth telling. I am not so keen on his selling helmets. Perhaps he thinks that as helmets are mandatory in competition he is justified in selling them, whether or not they work.
Compare him with Cracknell, who endorses helmets on the back of his accident (wearing a helmet) and gets money from a manufacturer.
700c wrote:mrmo wrote:700c
WHY?
a very very simple question, why can’t the UK follow the Dutch? the Danes? and actually improve the environment for cyclists.— mrmo
I’m not saying we can’t aspire to something ‘Dutch’, just that it would be foolish to stop wearing PPE until we have the infrastructure. Currently the UK’s roads, particularly at rush hour, are very busy and not always safe.
Saying that more people should ditch the PPE to encourage cycling as a hassle free, accessible way to travel, BEFORE we’ve sorted out the infrastructure and culture is bonkers.
Like I say, I really think this has been taken out of context. Why would a helmet manufacturer, such as Boardman, be saying ‘ditch the helmet’? Can I sue him once I’ve come off my bike having shelved my Boardman helmet?! Or should I sue now for selling me an ‘unsafe’ product?!
Answer – he’s not saying that, but so many here have an anti helmet agenda that they’re prepared to believe that this backs up their choice.— 700c
Nobody here has an anti-helmet agenda. I have never heard anyone say helmets should be banned. There are many people with an anti-choice agenda however who think that because they do something the law should require everyone else to do the same. This is what irritates people; the HHH (helmet/high viz/holier than thou) brigade who frequently boast about how many accidents they have had with their ‘helmet saved my life’ stories and therefore rather undermine their claimed authority to lecture on safe cycling, seeking to impose their choices on others. There is not no helmet debate, there is a helmet compulsion debate; People are pro compulsion or pro choice , not pro or anti helmet.
Read it one more time, he is
Read it one more time, he is not saying that we would be safer if we all wore helmets, he is saying that even in countries where helmet use is very low there is less head injury than in the UK because motorists do not go around hitting us.
He is not confusing cause and effect, maybe you are just putting your bias on the article.
I’m against mandatory helmet
I’m against mandatory helmet wear but I wear one whenever I’m on the bike because it keeps my wife happy, and anything that adds to the brownie points bank ultimately means more road miles for me.
The reality is I have two young children so I think making myself visible (reflectives and lights at night and bright colours (not necessarily fluro) by day) and protecting my head for the 0.0001% likely event is the least I can do, along with being as proactively safe as I can by “good riding”, even if the helmet is effectively a placebo for my family.
If you do decide to wear one, a lightweight, well-ventilated helmet is hardly a major discomfort.
Each to their own.
Boardman is totally right as
Boardman is totally right as usual. Neither he nor anyone else is disputing that a helmet might offer some degree of additional protection. However the range as shown on this forum is that it goes from “it saved my life” to as “much use as a chocolate teacup”. Ooozavered’s statistics say it all 75 joules of protection vs 200,000 to dissipate in a small car collision.
CB is right because lot’s of people already choose to wear them, so what is the benefit of compulsion ? Evidence from Oz is that it’s detrimental. As has been pointed out above, it’s mums, children, potterers etc that we need out there and I’d go as far as saying that the helmet argument is like that political strategist’s dead cat thrown on a table; a total distraction.
We have to move on and shine the spotlight on badly driven vehicles and lack of safe infrastructure which cause far more accidents than anything else on our highways and address this with far greater urgency.
I’ve posted elsewhere about acting as a witness in a hit & run but what was shocking that here was an open and shut case where a driver was prepared to lie all the way and didn’t see he’d done anything wrong. What does that say about the primacy of our car culture and our justice system ?
More power to your elbow Mr Boardman.
Given that more drivers die
Given that more drivers die of head injuries than cyclists, maybe we should be calling for drivers to be forced to wear them first. It’s only fair, after all B-)
Rather than really muddy the
Rather than really muddy the waters here i’ve started another forum topic entitled
Why there is no money for safer road infrastructure….
Its an eye opener and would lead on quite well from CB’s comments.
stumps wrote:Rather than
Each road fatality costs about £500,000 to the UK’s economy overall. Investing in road safety intelligently would save losses to the UK’s GDP. When you start explaining that to politicians they start taking note. A lot of the time, the safety measures are really cheap.
Chris Boardman is my hero, if
Chris Boardman is my hero, if only he was given the column inches Clarkson has.
GREGJONES wrote:Chris
Clarkson certainly has a lot more inches around his waist. And his mouth is bigger too. But in terms of common sense and intelligence, Boardman wins out. It’s just a pity so many hang on Clarkson’s words. He’s an ignorant oaf.
Some stats from the NHS from
Some stats from the NHS from those that like that sort of thing. In the majority of head injuries they deal with (65%) alcohol is a factor. I don’t hear anyone baying for mandatory helmets for drinkers…
http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/head-injury
And the helmet debate in
And the helmet debate in Road.CC rolls on into it’s 6th year. Zzzzzzzz.
In other news: Chris is right. If only he was bigger than Clarkson we would live in a better country.
I’m sure the we have more tubbies – in terms if entire populations over 20 – than the Danes and Dutch put together.
So he said the truth, how
So he said the truth, how many didn’t like that?
As usual, the truth of the
As usual, the truth of the matter is probably more complex and simpler.
In Holland, no one who uses his bike for simple day to day short distance transport wears a helmet, even the most foul weather. Equally, almost no one who rides a bike for sport goes without a helmet, even in the brightest sunshine. The difference? Speed.
Now try to legislate (and implement) that. The answer? Common sense and education and… an infrastructure, both physical and mental, geared to bike mobility.
Cheers.
noether wrote:As usual, the
Although the Netherlands is probably the safest country in the world for cycling, helmet wearing among Dutch cyclists is rare. It has been estimated that only about 0.5 percent of cyclists in the Netherlands are helmeted.
However, according to Dutch Government data (Rijkswaterstaat, 2008), 13.3 percent of cyclists admitted to hospital were wearing helmets when they were injured. Why does wearing a helmet appear to increase the risk of being injured so substantially?
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1261.html
So helmets do not seem to make the sports cyclists as safe as the utility cyclists. It is their right to choose.
Although the Netherlands is
[/quote]
Although the Netherlands is probably the safest country in the world for cycling, helmet wearing among Dutch cyclists is rare. It has been estimated that only about 0.5 percent of cyclists in the Netherlands are helmeted.
However, according to Dutch Government data (Rijkswaterstaat, 2008), 13.3 percent of cyclists admitted to hospital were wearing helmets when they were injured. Why does wearing a helmet appear to increase the risk of being injured so substantially?.[/quote]
The actual helmet has no bearing on this at all. In the Netherlands like here cycle racing requires the use of a helmet. People who race or who are racers ie those travelling fast have more chance of being in an accident. The real statistic is the speed of travel (type of cycling) versus injury. Helmet use is just a proxy for type of cycling being done.
noether wrote:
In Holland, no
Speed has nothing to do with it. Road cyclists traditionally like to imitate what the pros are riding/wearing. The helmet is just part of the uniform, it makes them look “right”.
Lolo wrote:noether wrote:
In
No, it is the event rules that determine if competitors wear helmets for an event. Wheelrunners (I’m using the Dutch term here) are the ones who like to go fast and in Holland, they’re the only helmet riders at all except very young children just starting to learn.
Fietsters (ordinary cyclists to you an me) should not ever need to where a helmet.
Just what exactly is a “road cyclist” anyway? I cycle on roads to work on my MTB, does that make me a “road cyclist”? No, I consider myself to belong to the Dutch class of “Fietster”, not “Wheelrunner”.
noether wrote:As usual, the
If that’s true then it is a stark illustration of the complete failure of logic that pervades this debate. Helmets are tested up to about 12mph, no more. If you are going to go faster than that then you are operating outside of its design parameters and cannot rely on it.
My view is that keen sports cyclists wear helmets ‘cos the pros do. Pros wear them because they’re paid to. Read Sean Kelly’s account of his last win in Milan San-Remo – going back to the team car to get his helmet for the last 50k because he would get a bonus from the manufacturer for wearing it if he won.
@felixcat I was being
@felixcat I was being facetious about suing him! Just pointing out the apparent contradictions between Boardman the helmet decrier and Boardman the helmet purveyor!
I suspect his valid points about mandatory helmet law and using helmets as an excuse to be lax about safety had been spun to meet anti helmet views of the author
700c wrote:@felixcat I was
I did take your suing remark as a rhetorical device, not a threat.
I cannot believe that the reporter has spun his report as much as would be necessary to produce such a distortion.
Perhaps he will enlighten us.
Well done Chris, by telling
Well done Chris, by telling people not to debate helmets you have created road.cc’s longest helmet debate thread since…. the last one.
Everything Chris says is
Everything Chris says is true.But have an accident (not your fault) get a head injury and when the case makes court and you win your case you will still lose one third of your claim because you ( failed) to wear a helmet.Trust me right now that’s the way it is.Put a lid on then join the debate.Driver ed is the way forward but don’t hold your breath.Great Britain is still living in the past when it comes to cycle safety and I don’t see change coming anytime soon. 8|
big mick wrote:Everything
Just not true. The case that had people worried was Reynolds v Strutt and Parker in 2011 in the High Court. This though was a case about a cycle race organised as an away day event by an employer. The case is more akin to the liabilities on a motor racing circuit than a road. in those circumstances the organiser may be liable if they put a novice in a fast car and let them go as fast as they like. Because the organiser knows the risks and the novice doesn’t. If your are talking about racing drivers though that doesn’t really apply. They would be deemed to be fully aware of the risk on a motor racing circuit and to have consented.
In this case the claimant Reynolds who was injured in the bike race and who wasn’t wearing a helmet was also the architect of the crash through aggressive riding and blocking another competitor in a sprint. He did compensation awarded because the employer did not make enough effort to encourage or insist on wearing a helmet. It doesn’t have any bearing on cyclists using the road in the normal way.
Logically how could it? If you run over a pedestrian you can’t claim they should have been wearing a helmet and have the compensation reduced.
Just to highlight the one
Just to highlight the one area which nobody really wants to talk about: risk compensation.
Nobody accepts that actually wearing a lid may increase your chances of getting into a crash in the first place. This may be partly because of the less careful behaviour of other road users, but mostly because of a slight, subtle, but nevertheless definite reduction in your own level of care.
This would apply to those who swear blind that they will never cycle without one, possibly the gentleman who thinks that WRITING IN BLOCK CAPITALS will make us believe his case and happens to have smashed 3 -4 (which is it? 3 or 4?) helmets in recent years. Could this rather high rate of head (or what’s on it) collisions have something to do with his level of care?
To take one example, if as the wonderful Chris Boardman points out, 0.8% of Dutch cyclists wear helmets, and 13% of hospitalised cyclists were wearing lids – even allowing for more mileage done by these (presumably racing) cyclists , doesn’t it suggest that wearing helmets is associated with a higher rate of collisions?
Not that (IMO) you shouldn’t be allowed to wear a helmet and crash about as much as you want.
But please do think of the red herring role the helmet plays. it gets in the way of dealing with motorists do to cyclists (and other road users) and makes it more difficult to reduce danger on the road.
If I may take the liberty of referring you to my explanation of why the helmets law in New Zealand had the effect it had: http://rdrf.org.uk/2013/12/27/the-effects-of-new-zealands-cycle-helmet-law-the-evidence-and-what-it-means/
This is how we (in NZ) ended
This is how we (in NZ) ended up with mandatory helmets.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4031829/Aarons-tragedy-spurred-Helmet-Ladys-crusade
She went round the country in an Andrew Wakefield-style fervour and pushed for helmets.
RPK wrote:This is how we (in
I’d love to ask her why she didn’t do the more obvious thing and go round the country campaigning to ban cars? After all, a car could still have killed her son, even had he been wearing a helmet.
Ok, I can guess why, but the utter failure of logic still irritates me.
(No subject)
(|:
Article: There’s more to
Article: There’s more to safety than debates about helmets.
Comments: helmet-helmet-helmet-helmet-helmet-helmet-helmet-helmet-helmet-helmet-helmet-helmet-helmet.
I’ve never preferred riding
I’ve never preferred riding without a helmet unless it’s to the shops. On a dedicated ride, I’ll take anything that could actually save my life if ahit hits the fan, especially as it weighs so little I barely know it’s there so what’s the harm?
Now with statistics stating drivers are more cautious around non helmeted cyclists, that could be a valid point toward non mandatory helmets. Otherwise it should be up to the individual
Miles253 wrote:I’ll take
Do you also carry a lucky rabbit’s foot – after all, what’s the harm?
Once we have segregated cycle
Once we have segregated cycle lanes I will remove my helmet and hi-viz clothing. Until then, they stay on if I intend on cycling on either a main road that is not in a 30mph limit area, or where there is heavy traffic and risk of SMIDSY accidents.
The one time I did fall off and bash the back of my head on the tar, I was glad of my helmet. But maybe that’s just me?
So, some of my mates asked
So, some of my mates asked what are the Top Ten Things which affect cycling safety which will have a greater effect on safety than polystyrene bananas strapped loosely to your cranium?
Here’s my list:
1) Speed limits for cars based on risks to others, starting with 40mph outside towns on minor A and B roads, 20mph in town with speeds up to 70mph only on dual carriageways/motorways where there is a cycling alternative.
2) Anti entanglement barriers built into lorries to prevent human bodies from being mangled horribly
3) Effective legal means to curb drivers who show little consideration to other road users
4) All junctions to have greater visibility of pedestrians built in by design
5) All major roads to have segregated pedestrian path/cycleways built in
6) Large vehicles to have reduced blind spots by design
7) Vehicles to have injury reducing sides rather than skull splitting edges
8) Fill those potholes and grit roads/cyclepaths/pavements
9) Allow cycles to turn left on a red in a square junction when no oncoming traffic
10) Ban the Daily Fail and Jeremy Clarkson for the bad attitudes they espouse.
I sometimes feel that I am
=D>
kcr wrote:
I sometimes feel
You wanna be careful doing that
Last night a DJ saved my
Last night a DJ saved my life.
This is about as true as your helmet story.
In all (almost) seriousness,
In all (almost) seriousness, I think that bicycling is still percieved as a bit odd here in the UK, a perception that is diminishing slightly now perhaps, but that wet weather, a lack of fitness in the general population, and insecure bike parking in general and transport hubs in particular stop people riding far more than percieved dangers.
When I was doing an 8 mile each way cycle commute I did deliberately choose a less traffic-heavy route and lit myself up like Blackpool to aid my safety, but it was the rain and cold that sapped my enthusiasm for it, not fear.
This is great… CB says
This is great… CB says “Stop talking about helmets, you idiots”. Cue massive idiotic discussion of helmets.
I wear a helmet because I
I wear a helmet because I know I’m capable of idiocy…I’d rather wear one and give myself a bit of a chance!
I don’t wear all that hi-vi gear though, there’s rarely any real need for that if you’re a confident cyclist and can read the road.
mtm_01 wrote:I wear a helmet
So you’re a confident idiot who claims he can read the road. I think that comes under the risk compensation umbrella.
Fuck me, how many more times
Fuck me, how many more times will it take before people grasp the basics of this? I despair of the repetition of the countless ‘helmet saved my life’ stories every time the H word enters this forum.
CB is right. Move on.
Here’s an idea, lets stop
Here’s an idea, lets stop perpetuating this argument, because it’s clearly irritating the majority of people.
How about :
No more stories on it from road cc and an agreement from readers not to post comment on this subject?
I choose to wear a helmet.
I choose to wear a helmet. Wife fell off and hit her head on icy road a few weeks ago, helmet saved her – hit to side of head.
I dont think helmets should be mandatory. Why should i impose my choice on others? It is not clear that helmet wearers are achieving a public good in the way seatbelt wearers do.
If you think people should be protected from themselves you are wrong and possibly an evil dictator.
birzzles wrote:Wife fell off
Case for the defence rests, m’lud. ~X(
It’s all very simple.
If you
It’s all very simple.
If you wanna wear a lid and think it makes you feel safer, fine wear one. If you dont, then don’t. Personal choice.
the problem is the people arguing that helmets are the magic bullet to cycling safety, which they are not. CB is right they are a distraction.
Compulsion is WRONG. simple.
Insisting that cyclists in publicity shots & media wear helmets, like BBC do & ASA tried to enforce is WRONG. Simple.
Boardman bikes is a business and I have no issue with them floggin lids. I would have an issue with hard-selling them at bike sale time, or “don’t ride without a helmet” stickers on the bikes.
More nonsense…
More nonsense…
Don,t say you weren’t
Don,t say you weren’t warned.It cost me £300,000 but hay I talk nonsense right?Lawyers love people not wearing helmets.They can save there clients big money.The real world (court rooms) are a harsh cold place and FAILED to wear a helmet makes you look iresponsible and in a world where car drivers wear seat belts motorcyclist wear helmets in the eyes of a judge you look foolish not protecting yourself.In court I was asked” why don’t you cyclist wear motorcycle helmets” that’s what you are up against.Nonsense for sure but for non cyclists it seems to make sense.Real world hard place and we all need to get real.I know cycle helmets are shite and when flattened by a lorry no helmet would save you but like I say Don’t say you weren’t warned.I can take a horse to water but can’t make it drink right.Oh just more nonsense for sure right? Sorry but it’s all true sorry to say.
Big Mick, was your case
Big Mick, was your case reported? Can you give us a link? I’ve never come across any case remotely like yours. This needs investigating.
big mick wrote:Don,t say you
Huh? How exactly did not wearing a helmet cost you £300K? I’ve never worn a helmet and it has cost me absolutely nothing. On the contrary I’ve saved the cost of said helmet … and enjoyed the wind in my hair too … which is half the point of cycling anyway IMHO.
Joeinpoole wrote:big mick
The damages award was reduced by £300,000 because not wearing the helmet was deemed to be contributory negligence…
Big Mick. Big Mick, are you
Big Mick. Big Mick, are you there? This question of contributory negligence is important.
Can you give uis any details which might help us to find out more about your case?
‘So when doctors and surgeons
‘So when doctors and surgeons say “I’ve seen many cyclists in my hospital, and I am sure helmets save lives”‘
This is ok, because they are expressing *their opinion*. Not a fact. Take out the ‘I am sure’ and you’re into ‘old quack who needs striking off’ territory. I’d imagine very few doctors actually do go down that route, because they understand how the whole ‘fact’ thing works, unlike Mr and Mrs Numpty on the Daily Mail comments page.
Unfortunately people hear the ‘I am sure…’ bit and jump straight to ‘my doctor said…’
A Cunning Plan
For those who
A Cunning Plan
For those who feel the need to tell us they find helmet discussions boring.
Do not click on topics which are clearly about helmets.
“Everyone should be banned
“Everyone should be banned from wearing helmets!”
…Said nobody. So can we please arguing against it?
Helmet saved your life? Great, keep it up. But we can create towns in which lives aren’t threatened at all. This is a better depiction of a cycling Utopia than one in which we force cyclists to try and ‘take the battering’.
It is in realising this – entirely achievable – vision that the narrative should be heading. The helmet debate lacks scope. The ‘compulsory helmet law’ has also reduced uptake in both the countries that have passed it, which is completely counterproductive. Discussing it will not further this vision one jot. It is a distraction from making a real difference. It is simply a complete ‘red herring’.
And on the topic of anecdotes; it’s worth noting that those who’s lives a helmet didn’t save are generally less vocal about their experiences.
Chris Boardman is a sporting
Chris Boardman is a sporting icon whose opinions deserve respect and I realize he’s had a fairly consistent view on helmets over the years.
However, I can’t help thinking that his opinions would carry more weight here if he wasn’t also profiting from selling bicycles. Any move to increase helmet use certainly has potential to hurt his business.
Wynyard wrote:Chris Boardman
Especially his helmet business. That’d take a battering.
I am wary of Boardman’s roles as both a businessman and an activist; but despite this, I have never seen a public figure make more grounded, sensible and insightful comments about cycling in Britain; on both its present and its future.
I have trust in his judgement, and respect for his ability to deliver it in such an open, honest and inviting manner. You raise valid point about potential ulterior motivations given his two roles, but as neither is a detriment to the other, I don’t think it’s a problem; they’re not conflicting interests.
Also, unlike most businessmen, Boardman at least produces something worthwhile. I don’t like the idea that you’re only allowed to make something decent so long as you don’t get payed for it.
If Boardman was promoting magical Boardman bits that everyone should buy, I’d be suspicious, but he’s not. He’s shooting down compulsory helmet laws as a distraction from a greater issue, despite his business selling helmets. I think it’s quite clear from his comments that his views on this matter have little to do with business.
If he does profit from this, it’ll only be because more bicycles are being sold overall, and that is something that I assume everyone here is in favour of, business interests or not.
With regards to his overall judgement, I think his transition from athlete to designer to champion of simple everyday cycling only serves to round him more as a voice of reason; and I think few people have quite as much depth OR breadth in the field of cycling as Chris Boardman. ‘Wisdom’ is not a word that’s thrown around a lot in relation to bicycles, but I think Boardman’s combination of experience and level-headedness afford him the quality in bucket-loads.
But that’s enough idolatry from me. I’ll stop when he says something stupid, although I don’t expect that to come soon.
My helmet saved my life…
My helmet saved my life… yes it did, but I was on a motorcycle and the motorbike landed on top of my head in the crash and split the helmet in two… It was a Bell Tourstar and it cost me some £120 back in 1982.
Now a cycle helmet? They’re next to useless in any form of cyling impact unless you are hitting your head at right angles to the ground with absolutely NO translational velocity at all… If you are sliding when you hit the ground, then the helmet WILL grab the road and spin your brain inside your skull. Cycle helmets are designed for one thing only, to pass the certification test to gain the kitemark or whtecer it is they are claiming. And the certification test does NOT relate to the kind of impact that they usually encounter.
Personally the old skool cycle helmets that consisted of leather tubes filled with kapok were far more effective than modern cycle helmets… at least they slid along and you didn’t have to throw them away after an impact…
Still got mine from 1972… 😉
Hi, interesting
Hi, interesting comments…..do you have the evidence, research or qualifications to back them up? I’m genuinely not trying to be contentious about this, but bold statements need backing up.
Big Mick, presumably you were
Big Mick, presumably you were found against for “contributory negligence” ? I am aware of plenty of cases for reduction in damages on this basis for failure to wear a seatbelt but not cycling helmets. Could you give us a case name to research further ? Thanks.
As a youngster, I never wore
As a youngster, I never wore a helmet but, returning to cycling as an old git, I got used to wearing a helmet before I knew anything of this argument. I’d hate to think I was putting people off by wearing a helmet but my wife would go spare with me if I left the house without it. Genuinely confused.
paulfg42 wrote: Genuinely
Try http://www.cyclehelmets.org/ and, for balance http://www.bhit.org/
Am I missing something here?
Am I missing something here? Should I stop wearing a helmet, and give up on the hi vis jacket?
I have to to be honest, I just don’t get CB’s comments…should I fall from my bike with/without a helmet would the result be the same, should I hit my head? Are we being fooled about the value of cycle helmets, are they in fact all but useless? Would this explain why every time I read a review, of a helmet, it’s about the look, number of vents, fit…as opposed to security/impact protection? Is there a rating for the safety of helmets, if so I’ve missed it.
If I wear a head cam whilst gardening will it show as many near misses as when I’m cycling in traffic? As for sand castles and sharks….is this something from the Eric Cantona philosophy about seagulls and trawlers???
I emailed the article to my brother in Afghanistan, suggested he take off the body armour, as perhaps this gave him a false sense of security.
Sarcasm apart….I just don’t get CB’s comments…..simple as this to me….any point in buying/wearing a helmet? Will wearing one, in any event, help prevent serious injury? Is there any research/evidence proving the safety of a helmet?
Should I worry about my 12 year old daughter wearing a helmet when we ride? Seriously.
El Tel wrote:Am I missing
Erm…. Only the bit that says there are at least 10 things more important than wearing a helmet… i.e. the whole point of the story. 😐
El Tel wrote:I just don’t get
Depends if a motor vehicle is involved – in most cases where one is, then yes, the outcome is unlikely to be much different.
But you’re ignoring the most important question: will wearing a helmet make it more likely that you have the crash in the first place? The answer tot his is very likely to be yes, there’s a lot of evidence pointing to this being exactly what happens.
El Tel wrote:Am I missing
He’s not talking about whether, on an individual basis, it’s better to be wearing a helmet when your head hits the ground or not. I don’t think that’s generally something that people dispute (as long as you’re talking about an MTB-style crash, not being hit by a car).
He’s talking about cycling safety in general, in the context of getting more people out on their bikes and normalising it, and IMO he’s right to suggest that the focus needs to be on issues way upstream of the point at which an individual’s head is a couple of inches away from hitting the ground.
These two things are not contradictory. And when evidence suggests that helmet compulsion does nothing to affect the rates of injury for cyclists at a population level, that’s a completely different question from whether a helmet is a good thing or not once an individual incident is underway.
It’s not a fall from your
It’s not a fall from your bike that’s going to kill you, that’s more likely to happen if you’re hit by a motor vehicle and motor vehicles pass helmeted cyclist more closely than bare headed cyclists.
http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/archive/overtaking110906.html
https://www.eta.co.uk/2011/04/01/safest-bicycle-helmet-has-built-in-wig/
Not so long ago, popular opinion was that the earth was flat.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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What are the top ten things
What are the top ten things that are more important to cycle safety than a helmet?
laterrehaute wrote:What are
To start with proper paths, and proper control of drivers, then cyclist education, education of drivers, design of road junctions and roundabouts, control of hate speak in the media, health benefits, perception that cycling Is dangerous.
Any risk assessment tells you PPE is the last line of defence, as far as cycling is concerned in the UK it seems to be the first and only topic!
mrmo wrote:
Any risk
+1
laterrehaute wrote:What are
Pretty much all the things that prevent an accident in the first place rather than just trying to limit the damage when it happens, so:
1. Driver attitude
2. Driver education
3. Driver awareness
4. Cyclist attitude
5. Cyclist education
6. Cyclist awareness
7. Roadworthiness of car
8. Roadworthiness of bike
9. Safe road design
10. Cyclist visibility
You could argue about the order of importance of those, but there’s ten things I’d put above wearing a helmet right away.
Helmets grabbing the road?
Helmets grabbing the road? Wow never realised these things are alive :))
Oh – and it’s not just
Oh – and it’s not just helmets that lawyers defending motorists are interested in. Not wearing hi-vis clothing in a collision is used against cyclists too.
As for those who think that cycling isn’t a dangerous occupation – kindly allow me to bash your head into a wall at 20mph and see if that changes your mind 😀 (even the most ardent evolutionist would see that our built environment is more dangerous than ever)
The Golden Rule Here is
The Golden Rule Here is ‘Whatever’s Comfortable’.
If you feel safer wearing a helmet – wear a helmet.
If you feel safer wearing hi-vis – wear hi-vis.
It’s YOUR choice. Although wearing a helmet does save you from having to nail your helmet cam to your head. =))
levermonkey wrote:The Golden
I know it’s bad form to quote yourself. But…
It is not a matter of being anti-helmet BUT of being pro-choice.
When I’m off road on a MTB then I wear a helmet. When I’m commuting I don’t. When I’m riding for fun I don’t. When I’m riding in a sportive or similar I do, because the organisers ask me to (I still have the choice; I can choose whether I enter or not).
I’m over 21 (Ok! With interest, VAT and then some 😉 ), I don’t need my mothers permission. The information is out there, read it and come to your own decision!
Having said all that I do think children under 10 should wear a helmet. Please note I said should NOT must. I won’t think any less of you as a parent if you decide your child doesn’t need a helmet.
Remember cyclists are goats not sheep. 😀
I agree with levermonkey.
I agree with levermonkey. Wear a helmet & hi-viz if you want to; don’t if you don’t.
Personally, I wear both. I’d be very reluctant to cycle without a helmet: you never know in advance when you’ll need it.
I certainly didn’t find my helmet a ‘distraction’ when I fell heavily going round a corner on my bike and hit my head on the edge of the kerbstone. I got a big dent in my helmet, not in my skull.
Nor was it a ‘distraction’ when another cyclist came out of a side road just as I was passing at 18mph, causing me to somersault over my handlebars and hit the back of my head on the Tarmac as I landed. The helmet took the force of the blow, not my head.
Personally, I was very glad to have been wearing a helmet on both occasions. But if other cyclists would prefer their unprotected head to take the full force in such full force of the blow, at’s up to them.
I certainly agree, though, that the bigger issue is careless, reckless and cycle-hating drivers.
Excellent to see Chris
Excellent to see Chris speaking sense as per usual.
I wear a helmet most days that I’m out training and never when I’m just pottering about to the shops. In fact, I only wear a helmet because it hedges my bets; if I have a spill and hit the road with my head I think I’d rather have my helmet take some of the edge off the impact.
How many times have I had a spill in the last 30 years? Once on wet road and though I went down quite hard I wasn’t travelling anywhere near fast enough to hit my head.
I do think the inherent risks of any given activity determine the need to wear protection but as Chris rightly points out wearing protection is indeed the worst way of controlling a particular hazard or likelihood of an accident. Accident Prevention, and in particular, the reducing the severity of the outcome, are the key objectives. As Chris says segregation of cyclists from motor vehicles is the obvious solution.
I still believe that as cyclists are more like pedestrians than motor vehicles they ought to be sharing footpaths more than they do. Obviously you can’t go racing around footpaths as pedestrians have to be duly considered but it is better to use a footpath than a busy road. The changes to local bye-laws and road/path designations is down to Local Authorities, as much as anyone, and until our local town councillors and police get on board with supporting rather than persecuting cyclists we won’t get anywhere.
Keep it up Chris and when you get the chance brow beat Boris and as many Pro Cyclists as you can to sing the same song (Wiggo, Hoy, Trotty, Froomey & Cav, spring to mind).
Mr Boardman may be correct if
Mr Boardman may be correct if we all live in the Netherlands. But until UK cities have all the recommended safety measures in place, perhaps helmets should be considered a higher priority; despite their limited effectiveness.
Boardman your an idiot!
You
Boardman your an idiot!
You can argue all you like but helmets regardless of their minimum protection might be the difference that saves a life!
I also ride offroad were I don’t have to worry about drivers attitudes, drivers education, drivers awareness, safer road layouts etc… If I get it wrong it’s my mistake ( no one else’s) and whatever precautions I take can only help but to rule out as not important due to fashion and putting people of cycling is crazy!
xcstu wrote:Boardman your an
would you ride off road without a helmet? I wouldn’t, risk compensation at work.
Helmets are pretty much only good at deflecting branches, oh and giving you whiplash when your helmet light gets caught by a branch you didn’t see!
Big Mick, it seems that you
Big Mick, it seems that you were given very poor advice by your legal adviser.
“CTC members have forced a multi-national insurer to take full responsibility for a crash in which a cyclist was hit by a car.
NIG (the National Insurance and Guarantee Corporation) has withdrawn its contributory negligence claim against Walsall cyclist Alan Millett, brought about because Millett was not wearing a helmet when the collision took place.
The insurer admitted liability for the crash but reduced its damages offer by 15 per cent. Now, the pressure cyclists brought to bear has forced NIG to pay the full offer of £130,000 with no deduction.
Millett, 66, suffered serious head injuries, a broken collar bone and severe bruising when he was hit by the car as he cycled around a roundabout on the A41 in Walsall. An appeal for action from CTC prompted members to send hundreds of angry emails and letters to NIG calling for payment of the full award.
Outraged cyclists also forced Provident Insurance to retract a similar claim against young Darren Coombs last year.
Millett’s Solicitor Joseph Rahm said: “This is another significant victory for cyclists. The considerable discontent CTC members showed led NIG to back down very quickly. When it comes to protective head gear, insurers know they are on a poor wicket and that there is no proof that the head injury would have been lessened by the wearing of a helmet.”
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1053.html
You will also find on this site a legal opinion from Martin Porter QC, “the cycling silk.”
Big Mick, here is another
Big Mick, here is another case. I think that you may have a case for negligence by your solicitor.
“This is a copy of a press release issued when a cyclist from Liverpool, England won his claim for full damages despite a counter-claim that he was negligent for not wearing a cycle helmet. The defendant’s insurers abandoned its counter-claim immediately before the trial, but it is interesting to note that the judge subsequently remarked that “it was not surprising that those allegations should be abandoned”, suggesting that had that not been the case, the judge may well have ruled in the cyclist’s favour.
“In personal injury cases where the victim is a cyclist, the question of whether a protective helmet was worn at the time of the accident often becomes a critical issue when considering liability. In one recent case Bill Braithwaite QC stood firm in pursuing a claim for a brain-injured cyclist, despite pressure ,to accept liability on behalf of his client. The outcome was that the claimant will recover 100% of his damages, despite a detailed report from the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, submitted by the defendant.
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1049.html
This is the opinion of Brian
This is the opinion of Brian Walker, one of the leading experts on the mechanics of helmets, and whose company Head Protection Evaluations is the principal UK test laboratory for helmets and head protection systems of all kinds
If you think Boardman is an idiot take a look at this.
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1081.html
“I have read so many opinions over the past few years on this subject, which in the main have been technically adrift of reality or based on misinformation. I felt that it was time to respond.
“In other legal cases with which I have been involved, where a cyclist has been in collision with a motorised vehicle, the impact energy potentials generated were of a level which outstripped those we use to certify Grand Prix drivers helmets. In some accidents at even moderate motor vehicle speeds, energy potential levels in hundreds of joules were present.
“Referring back to the Court case mentioned early, the very eminent QC under whose instruction I was privileged to work, tried repeatedly to persuade the equally eminent neurosurgeons acting for either side, and the technical expert, to state that one must be safer wearing a helmet than without. All three refused to so do, stating that they had seen severe brain damage and fatal injury both with and without cycle helmets being worn. In their view, the performance of cycle helmets is much too complex a subject for such a sweeping claim to be made.
These opinions are given by experts whose professional reputations depend on their statements being justifiable. Hence their reluctance to make claims for cycle helmets being as efficacious as many of the cyclists posting above assume to be obvious.
Halle-bloody-lulia. At last
Halle-bloody-lulia. At last someone in a position of influence says something sensible about cycle helmets. The whole debate tends, to put it politely, to put the cart before the horse. Helmets do nothing to prevent you having a collision. By all means wear one if you want to, but the emphasis should be on preventing collisions through driver education, cyclist training, and infrastructure design. Chris Boardman has gone up quite a few notches in my estimation. Even if he does have a commercial relationship with a well-known high street cycle retailer 😉
I find CB’s comments
I find CB’s comments unhelpful. Being put off cycling because of helmets is like being put off driving because of seat belts. Silly. I wear a helmet in case I fall off not in case someone hits me. I’ve had three bad falls. One resulted in a helmet split front to back. Better that than my head. Another caused a front somersault and broken collarbone. The most recent, a split chin, chipped tooth and bruises. My brother in law is 2 years into recovery after a majorr cycling injury but he’s alive. I don’t think helmets should be compulsory but you won’t find me or my cycling friends out without one.
thehairs1970 wrote:I find
would you wear a helmet to walk to the shop. This is not about sport cycling, it is about utility cycling. For which helmets are not really an issue, certainly not as important as the space devoted to discussing them.
mrmo wrote:This is not about
This is the key distinction. I’d be classified as a ‘sport cyclist’ (or, if you prefer, the recreational cycling I do would be called ‘sport cycling’, even when it’s not competitive). I wear a helmet when I train and when I race. I also wear one when I’m cycling to barracks of a morning, trundling into town for the shopping, or out for a gentle jaunt with Mrs F. Why? Because I’m so used to doing so that I feel more comfortable with my trusty Giro Savant on my bonce, and because whether or not it is in the least effective, the opportunity cost to wearing it is zero. I also don’t need to use my SPDs, nor do I need to be riding a lightweight CX racer, but still I do.
There shouldn’t be in people’s minds a binary pro- or anti- stance to helmet-wearing; we shouldn’t, as Chris Boardman says, be talking about them at all. I – like the majority here – am against compulsory helmet legislation, and accept the evidence-based arguments that for most cyclists, a helmet is unnecessary. However, for the kinds of cycling some of us here do, wearing one is a worthwhile investment; doing so has certainly saved me a few times from what would otherwise have been a nasty knock on the head.
thehairs1970 wrote: Being put
Whatever you think, every compulsion law has been followed by a drop in cycling.
“Edmonton – 59% reduction in children’s cycling by 2004
Cyclists were counted in Edmonton (a city in Alberta), in 2000 (pre-law) and 2004 (post-law). The percentage of cyclists under 18 fell from 26% in the pre-law survey, to 15% post-law (Hagel et al, 2006), suggesting that the law discouraged substantial numbers of youngsters from cycling. Compared to adults who were not required to wear helmets, children’s cycling (<13 years) fell by 59%, with a 41% reduction for teenagers aged 13-17 (Hagel et al, 2006).
At the time, great concerns were also expressed that injuries per cyclist had increased after the introduction of Alberta’s helmet law (BHRF, 1055).
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1250.html
“Only two states – Victoria and NSW – attempted to measure the effect of the laws on cycling activity by pre- and post-law surveys at the same sites, observation periods, time of year and, where possible, the same observers. In NSW, data from identical pre- and post-law surveys were available only for children. Both surveys were conducted in excellent weather. Table 1 shows that the increase in numbers wearing helmets was only about half the decrease in cyclists counted, with similar outcomes for cycling in recreational areas, through road intersections, or to school. Reductions in rural NSW (35%) and in the Sydney Metropolitan area (37%) were almost identical. Another survey was carried out a year later, under fine and generally sunny conditions. Even fewer cyclists were counted.
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1242.html
“February 2012: The New Zealand Medical Journal published Evaluation of New Zealand’s bicycle helmet law (PDF 209kb) by former British Cycling Federation coach and road safety instructor Colin F Clarke, showing a massive plunge in cycling levels and a 20% higher accident rate since helmet law enforcement.
Public on-road cycling participation in New Zealand fell by 26% between 1989 and 1998, according to the Land Transport Safety Authority Cyclist Travel Survey (PDF 108kb page 42). New Zealand’s population increased by 406,390 – or 11% – during that time. In the five years prior to 1994, average annual cyclist injury totals were 991. In the five years after 1994, average annual injury totals were 707 – a reduction of 29%.
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1022.html
It seems likely to me that helmet promotion necessarly entails
claiming that cycling is exceptionally dangerous. Perhaps you remember BHit, the British pro helmet charity promoting helmets to schoolchildren with an X-ray of a skull.
Why are people so anti
Why are people so anti helmet? I’m not talking about making them mandatory, that’s daft and unenforceable. Helmets are there to absorb the initial impact even if they may not prevent extreme damage in some cases.
I know of one person who hit their head on the kerb, the helmet cracked, their head was OK.
Last week in the Olympics a female snowboarder went down heavy which resulted in a split helmet, she was OK.
So what? I hear people say.
I’ll just throw this in. In 1977 when the only helmets were those leather things that did nothing I had the misfortune to have my chain come off which resulted in a nasty kerb to bike interface.
I lost control as I was going full chat standing up accelerating so had little chance to stop. The last thing I remember is “Oh, shit, I’m going to get my hands dirty putting the chain back on”
I hit a concrete bus stop sign with by head and shoulder. I fractured my skull, ripped my ear off and broke my collarbone. I lost a pint of blood, 30 stitches and was in and out of consciousness for a couple of days. I cannot hear properly out of my ear either.
Had I been wearing a modern helmet I don’t think the first two injuries would have occurred.
That’s my two-pennorth, go ahead and mock me and tell me of all the people who have come off and never had a head injury and tell me why the construction is similar to motorcycle helmets, which as we all know are useless too.
I will happily show you my scars and ignore you with my deaf ear.
fret wrote:Why are people so
I think you’re missing the point. There exists a truly *massive* misconception that cycling is a ‘more dangerous activity’ than other perfectly ‘normal’ activities like having a drink, walking down some stairs, being a pedestrian or driving a car.
Statistics prove that that simply isn’t the case.
Fine if you *want* to wear head-protection when cycling … but, if your objective is to be as safe as possible, then you really *should* wear your helmet when drinking, driving or descending stairs. All of those activities are, statistically speaking, far more likely to result in a head injury than cycling.
I think you’d look a bit of a dork wearing a helmet as PPE whilst having a pint in your local … but that *is* the activity that is most likely (by a fucking country-mile) to result in a serious head injury.
The helmet was never designed
The helmet was never designed to prevent accidents. It is designed to mitigate damage if one occurs.
It’s like saying – better than giving body armor to the troops and cops, let’s just tell them to just not get shot. Then they won’t get shot and all that stupid heavy, expensive body armor is no longer necessary.
Everybody wins!
No, the reality is that of all the parts of your body that can get hurt, the head is the most likely to make an injury into a ‘serious injury’. If you get a body part hit with enough force to break bone, but it hits you in the leg, you’re probably going to be a lot better off than if that same impact hit your head.
Hence the helmet is actually a useful item.
That wasn’t complicated now was it?
Dear Road.cc. As people
Dear Road.cc. As people don’t seem to get this, please do an article headed up something like:
‘Helmets are not even in the top 10 of the most important things that improve cycling safety’
then maybe, just maybe, people might understand the thrust of what CB is saying.
Oh, hang on… ~X(
Hooray!! I completely agree
Hooray!! I completely agree with Mr Boardman – I ride MTB and Road and will evaluate my ride as to what protection I wear, (not just the panacea that is the magic helmet but also pads and type of clothing) but what I find interesting is that when I ride Road in me cap/beanie, some other cyclists start preaching about my irresponsibility of not wearing a helmet, but strangely enough one thing that all these guys have in common is that they all seem to crash a lot – why is that do you think?
Don’t miss the point:
Don’t miss the point: Boardman is not saying “Don’t wear a helmet” he is saying that the government making helmets compulsory distracts from the real issue which is that the road system is feckin dangerous.
Anyone who has ever crashed and hit their head will attest to the fact that a helmet can save your life. Obviously its great to feel the wind in your hair but I’d rather have a helmet in between. In the last crash I had, when I came round my helmet had actually cracked in half. I’d rather that than my skull.
unclebadger wrote:
Anyone who
The only time I have hit my head I was lucky enough to be wearing a Festina cap.
I was hardly bruised. I urge all riders to wear a cotton cap, though I’m not sure the Festina design was important.
There are many things in life
There are many things in life people try to focus on when they don’t want to solve a problem. It’s like debating the children that throw stones at tanks in Palestine, but not wanting to debate why the tanks are there in the first place.
Cycling is not considered as a serious form of transport. It’s more an inconvenience to cars, and that’s why many drivers act accordingly.
It never ceases to amaze me
It never ceases to amaze me how many of the helmet advocates manage to keep falling off their bikes! It’s easy; learn not to fall and if you are to fall learn how to fall!! Don’t overcook descending or corners. Don’t cycle through standing water as you don’t know if there’s a crater under there. In the last 5 years I have accumulated well over 40,000 miles and have had two offs. Once when a ped stepped out in front of me and I twisted my shoulder as a result and the other at a set of lights when I didn’t un clip in time.
Boardman is correct in what he says. Note, he is not anti helmet. He is only saying that the helmet is not at the top of the agenda. And yet we have a torrent of anecdotes of helmets saving peoples lives. The wearing of a helmet will not make cycling on the UK roads any safer. As will the wearing of HI Viz. Many motorists out there treat vulnerable road users with total and utter contempt.
The only way of making the roads safer to use is more indepth driving tuition and difficult, better infrastructure for cyclists, better sentencing for driving offenses.
There is so much more that can be done rather the vague slap a bit of plastic on your head and everything will be all right.
Chris Boardman is right, talk
Chris Boardman is right, talk of cycle helmets has stymied the campaign to improve road conditions for cyclists.
There are only two irrefutable facts we should be concerned about concerning the wearing of helmets.
They are: 1. Their introduction changed for ever the long held and correct perception that cycling was/is a low risk activity into one that is now considered, incorrectly, to be dangerous.
2. Cycle helmet wearing has done nothing to improve
road safety for cyclists.
As an example of how twisted the safety debate has become,
I recall hearing one nutter of an MP – at a hearing of the House of Commons Select Committee on Transport some years ago – come out with the following line: he said, “…if cyclists were made to wear helmets surely there would be no need to slow traffic.”
[quote=Condor flyer
I recall
[quote=Condor flyer
I recall hearing one nutter of an MP – at a hearing of the House of Commons Select Committee on Transport some years ago – come out with the following line: he said, “…if cyclists were made to wear helmets surely there would be no need to slow traffic.”[/quote]
Dead right. I suspect that is why so many non cyclists are prominent in the campaign to make us wear foam. Fatties Angie Lee and Eric Martlew are good examples.
Once again, the point has
Once again, the point has been wildly missed by everyone trotting out the same old anecdotes of how they “know” their helmet saved them.
Bear in mind you’re talking about different types of riding – we’re trying to get more people on bikes for normal everyday things – going to the shops, commuting etc – and portraying that as some kind of reckless, dangerous activity that requires lycra, helmets, hi-vis and an ability to mix it with buses and trucks doing 30+mph doesn’t help. Yes, if I’m riding like that I wear a helmet. Getting a hire bike to potter round London, I’d never consider it – it’s a normal everyday activity of me going to the shops in normal clothes and a completely different way of riding. I suspect some people on here (who are by definition keen road cyclists with racing bikes and all the kit) have forgotten this whole other world of cycling which exists outside of it being a hobby/sport for the relatively well-off rather than a valid mode of transport for all.
You remember after that 2-week period in London where 6 cyclists were killed? Rather than it being taken as an opportunity to really push the #space4cycling campaign and The Times’ “Cities Fit for Cycling” campaign it became an angry argument with the three H’s brought to the fore – Helmets, Hi vis and Headphones. The road safety campaign that followed involved the Police standing there pulling cyclists for not wearing hi-vis while largely ignoring the massive elephant in the room of all the big dangerous badly driven cars & lorries. Basically moved everything onto victim blaming, arguments and diverted the attention of the media away from the main issue. 🙁
As CB so rightly says – stop talking about helmets and move the whole debate forwards.
From an article in the New
From an article in the New York Times.
“A Bicycling Mystery”
“Millions of parents take it as an article of faith that putting a bicycle helmet on their children, or themselves, will help keep them out of harm’s way.
“But new data on bicycle accidents raises questions about that. The number of head injuries has increased 10 percent since 1991, even as bicycle helmet use has risen sharply, according to figures compiled by the Consumer Product Safety Commission. But given that ridership has declined over the same period, the rate of head injuries per active cyclist has increased 51 percent just as bicycle helmets have become widespread.
“Still, with fewer people riding bicycles, experts are mystified as to why injuries are on the rise. ”It’s puzzling to me that we can’t find the benefit of bike helmets here,” said Ronald L. Medford, the assistant executive director of the safety commission’s hazard identification office.
More interesting stuff in the article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/29/business/a-bicycling-mystery-head-injuries-piling-up.html
Number 1 in my book has to be
Number 1 in my book has to be –
You can permanently lose your licence if you prove yourself to be unfit, rather than this obsession with keeping everyone in a car at all cost, especially when that cost is continually payed by innocents.
Until that becomes a reality I know I can go out right now and ‘accidentally’ kill and be back behind the wheel within two years tops.
He is plain wrong, would you
He is plain wrong, would you drive a new car without airbags – no, I just a month ago would have died from a serious head injury if it were not for my helmet. Helmets are a not brainer.. excuse the pun. Martin McGrevy
nitram wrote:He is plain
Jesus H Christ. How difficult is it to understand?
CB is not saying ‘do not wear a helmet’. Have you read and understood the article? Have you read and understood the other comments, particularly those pertaining to assertions that ‘my helmet saved my life’?
May I respectfully suggest that you have a(nother) look and come back with details of those bits you don’t understand?
nitram wrote:He is plain
My car is very old and has no air bags or any of the features that many vehicles have now days. I am of the opinion that driving skills have deteriated massively as a result of these new features. People rely hugely on the computer to control traction, braking etc. and also have a misguided perception that the air bags, crumple zones and roll cages are going to protect them. That’s why we see idiots bombing up the motorway in torrential rain and zero visibility at 100mph. It’s why we see the same idiots braking at the last minute.
The issue of safety on our roads is poor skills and behaviour towards other road users. NOT wearing Hi Viz and helmets – of which there is nothing wrong with. It’s just that non-cyclists seem to think that this is the answer to road safety and is the easiest option rather than deal with the real issues which means upsetting the motoring lobby.
Boardman is correct in saying that the helmet debate is a red herring. Oh, and if you watch the TdF when Chris is talking about stages you see him wearing a helmet when on the road. So he is not anti-helmet
nitram wrote:He is plain
Neither of my motorbikes have airbags. My current car does but the last one didn’t. As for ABS, it doesn’t work on ice or snow or diesel spills, which is when you need it most. A lot of this new car control technology encourages people to drive to the limits of their vehicle and not use key driving skills such as cadence braking or braking in a straight line. Increased vehicle performance and that fat twerp Jeremy Clarkson also encourage people to drive too fast for their ability or road conditions.
I wear a helmet when I’m racing my bicycle because I’m pushing the limits. But I don’t bother when I’m on the road.
would you drive a new car
But How carefully would you drive that car if that air bag was replaced by a big spike?
To those advocating helmet
To those advocating helmet use – do you also wear body armour? What about elbow and knee pads? Or motorbike leathers and a full-face helmet? After all, if you get hit by a car you’ll be better off wearing it than not.
Boardman is absolutely correct – in every situation PPE is the last line in injury prevention after everything else has been done to remove the danger and reduce the impact of any potential injury. With cycling the danger comes from motor vehicles. Remove these by segregation by mode. Reduce the risk of injury by lowering motor vehicle speed where segregation is not possible or desirable.
It really isn’t difficult to understand.
Honestly, i get what Boardman
Honestly, i get what Boardman is saying here (I get irritated myself by the constant call for hi viz clothing), but I myself feel much more confident on a bike with a helmet on, even when riding on empty streets, or off road. the point that bad driving is a menace is well made though and for me is a real issue. In my view the benefit of doubt in road crashes involving a bicycle should always rest with the motorised vehicle.
Yep; the man is completely
Yep; the man is completely right.
Next step is to ban the term “cycle helmet” as a mis trade description and instead allow them to be called; hats for the neurotically paranoid.
Ban them from cycle shops. Sack the risk assessors at cycling events that insist on them, as not able to make evidence based risk assesments, and are therefore incompetent.
Ban them from road use as they endanger both the user and others by giving a fraudulent impression.
Just about the only thing that kills cyclists are motor vehicles.
I wear a helmet not because
I wear a helmet not because it makes cycling safer but because (I believe) it makes crashing safer. My Giro Atmos definitely saved my skull (possibly my life) when I was hit by a van at speed.
Wouldn’t drive without my seatbelt….
:B
People in cars suffer head
People in cars suffer head injuries too. It’s never (to my knowledge) been suggested that people in cars should have to wear “driving helmets”. What a furore that would cause if it were seriously suggested!
Ironic that a piece saying
Ironic that a piece saying that the helmet debate distracts from the real issues then we go on to have a massive helmet debate…
BrianL51 wrote:People in cars
Don’t be too sure about that! There are driving helmets for normal motoring, and campaigns for them.
http://www.drivingwithoutdying.com/
http://drivetoworkday.org/2012/10/26/better-safe-than-sorry/
And, whilst I’m typing.
http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/08/walking-helmet-is-good-helmet.html
Somehow driving and walking helmets don’t seem to have caught on, though head injury rates are pretty similar to cyclists’.
I congratulate CB for trying
I congratulate CB for trying to move the debate from helmets to other safety issues. Too much of the bicycle safety message in the USA and UK has been “wear a helmet” and not much else.
You’d think that helmets were magic amulets that could protect cyclists from the evil of accidents and injuries.
It’s refreshing to hear someone suggest that maybe the focus should shift from reducing the injuries that result from accidents to preventing those accidents in the first place.
Let’s hope this signals the start of a broad approach to improved safety through a variety of measures from infrastructure changes to rider and driver education.
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How many racers died in the
How many racers died in the Tour de France, etc. in all the helmet-less years of racing – millions of kilometers? Not many if any. I’ll keep mine on, even though it does mean it creates more inertia for my neck muscles to resist in a fall.
Choices. The only time I’ve
Choices. The only time I’ve ever bashed my noodle was by hitting a heras panel fence at the bottom of a hill. I put a dent in it a good few inches deep, leading with my head. Other things hurt more, but the lack of a helmet resulted in a really interesting cross-hatched pattern in my scalp. No recommended and now, like most Iwear a helmet when I’m furious and don’t when I’m not.
Absolutely spot on, Chris.
Absolutely spot on, Chris. Before the age of the helmet cycling was never considered to be a dangerous activity.
Chris Boardman visibly
Chris Boardman visibly/certainly has not had himself a bike accident where he hit his head, I have had such an experience when I was young, and I am sure that i want always to wear a helmet when I go cycling! Of course there are many things that can be done also besides wearing a good helmet to improve security for cycling, but when your head hits the cement there is only 1 thing that can still protect then: a good helmet. 🙂 and although such accidents are rare, they need to happen only once to have very grave consequences, so we must encourage cyclists to wear helmets definitely, and of course work on improving all the other aspects of the cycling environment to make cycling as safe as possible also as much as we can. Best regards.
robgt wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/07/98/tour_de_france/131943.stm
robgt wrote:
Might be better teaching folk how to balance on their bikes if you ask me, as so many seem to be prone to falling off.