Strava in spotlight again as Preston's Guild Wheel creator says "poser" cyclists endanger others using shared path

jarredscycling wrote:

Maybe I'm the first to think it but if the Strava record is just a tad over an hour for 21 miles than cyclists aren't exactly just flying. I mean if it was truly a "raceway" then shouldn't you see the leader with average speeds around 25-27mph?

Trust me they are flying if they can do the wheel in that time. There is 25%, 15%, and a 10% climb. There are also some places where you have to come to a stand still to get through barriers. Not to mention, there are plenty of blind corners, if you were to hit someone coming the other way there would be a serious injury. I Imagine the cyclist will be averaging over 25mph on the open sections easily.

The wheel is a excellent ride, for those that have not tried it.

" There are also some places where you have to come to a stand still to get through barriers."

which blocks me with my cargo bike... and others with cargo trailers or kiddie trailers or disabled using recumbents with hand cranked pedals.

They should stop trying to block motorcyclists from going on them as it blocks some categories of cyclists as well. They should be policing them instead and prosecuting offenders.

mrmo wrote:

Quote:

Same as when you are driving a car. Appropriate speed. In Advanced Driving courses you learn the accronym TTR. Time to React. If you can see a long way ahead and it's all clear then you can speed up. If you're going round corners where you can't see a long way ahead or there are pedestrians, dogs other riders then slow right down to a safe speed. The trouble with racing of any kind is that it can easily override common sense "red mist" such that other users of that mixed use public path become mere obstacles to a faster time and chances are taken.

WE may know what is appropriate but as is clear from the way cars are driven huge numbers don't. As for skill isn't that exactly the same argument put forward by so many "good" drivers, I can handle the speed, my brakes are good, a have good tyres, etc etc etc.

If your going to design shared use paths then I am afraid you actually have to DESIGN them, laying a couple of inches of tarmac on a old track bed and call it a shared use path simply won't cut it.

Absolutely right on some of those points. Cars are driven very badly and I'm not going to be mealy mouthed about caveats with a a "few" either. There is a poor attitude/culture to road use amongst a large majority of motorists. Too close, too fast, too aggressive and mostly not even realising that they are doing it because well...doesn't everyone drive like that?

It's wrong. I oppose it. It's right that there are speedlimits on roads. I would lament that there had to be speed limits on a shared use cycle paths because some cyclists were using it as a race track because you know what? It would be easier for the powers that be to just make it a footpath and be done with it.

It can't be right to complain that some drivers are inconsiderate and dangerous when I am cycling on the road and then defend the same sort of behavious from some cyclists on a shared use path when they are being the inconsiderate and dangerous ones.

Philosophically I also don't buy the idea of turning up your nose at the quality of the provision in all cases. If you hold out for 5 star gold plated provision you'll get hardly any of it and we won't progress. We need more of it to make cycling to work and school etc a viable proposition for newbie cyclists that are scared of traffic and put off it. Once more people are cycling then they become a bigger constituency able to demand improvements and bigger budgets for infrastructure. Either way building a nice shared path route that benefits cyclists in commuting only to find that it's being used as a race track doesn't help next time a piece of infrastructure is being decided upon.

I'm a roadie so I'd love nicely laid smooth tarmac. But that's not necessary for most cyclists commuting to work. Nor for me on my hack bike. They need a reasonable surface and separation from traffic. So yes in a lot of cases a tarmac path over an old railway track bed will cut it and would be most welcome if we could get even that.

twinklydave wrote:

As several people have said above, it's the attitude of everyone on shared use paths that's the problem, whether that be the speed you ride at, how under control your dog is, how politely you allow people to pass while out walking with your family or how appropriately you dress when using the unlit sections at night...

Absolutely right. Common sense is worthwhile. For example, I don't know why peds on the B&B path insist on using the path as a park, with their dogs off the lead running about everywhere (especially when it's dark) - irresponsible and dangerous!!

johndonnelly wrote:

Would seem pretty easy for someone from Sustrans to join strava and just start marking their segments as hazardous.

Why all the fuss?

My thoughts as well.

Nothing puts you off hunting a strava than the segment being flagged.

However I guess doing that means you don't get to further publicise cyclists as moronic petrol heads.

johndonnelly wrote:

Would seem pretty easy for someone from Sustrans to join strava and just start marking their segments as hazardous.

Why all the fuss?

Totally agree. Strava is pretty good about taking down flagged segments - I've flagged a few myself (including one on the shared use path that my kid goes to school along) and they've been removed only days later. I never felt the need to write to the local rag.

Matt eaton wrote:

'self-regulate' and 'common sense' - these few words define the problem with Strava.

I ride paths a 6am, nobody in sight, slow/inexperienced cyclist can be as much a hazard, I know one hit me head on!

I'm sad to say that my opinion is that these define the problem with cyclists. There is always a group who are not prepared to do this and then the rest get tarred with their brush...

oozaveared wrote:

And if we want more infrastructure for cyclists then it shouldn't be used for racing.

If you want a good time trial time, do a proper time trial.

However what is fast? Is 20mph fast on a wide empty shared path? is 15 fast or maybe 10?

Not trying to be argumentative, as I do agree and I suspect in this case doing the whole route as a lap at speed does go against what it purpose is, but if you are trying to get from a to b and riding a section?

I am actually going to say the problem is the track designers as much as the cyclists. Human nature is human nature, design a track that can be ridden fast and some will ride it fast.

mrmo wrote:

oozaveared wrote:

And if we want more infrastructure for cyclists then it shouldn't be used for racing.

If you want a good time trial time, do a proper time trial.

However what is fast? Is 20mph fast on a wide empty shared path? is 15 fast or maybe 10?

Not trying to be argumentative, as I do agree and I suspect in this case doing the whole route as a lap at speed does go against what it purpose is, but if you are trying to get from a to b and riding a section?

I am actually going to say the problem is the track designers as much as the cyclists. Human nature is human nature, design a track that can be ridden fast and some will ride it fast.

Same as when you are driving a car. Appropriate speed. In Advanced Driving courses you learn the accronym TTR. Time to React. If you can see a long way ahead and it's all clear then you can speed up. If you're going round corners where you can't see a long way ahead or there are pedestrians, dogs other riders then slow right down to a safe speed. The trouble with racing of any kind is that it can easily override common sense "red mist" such that other users of that mixed use public path become mere obstacles to a faster time and chances are taken.

I would be reluctant to see speed limits imposed because sometimes on some stretches even 30mph (if you can do it) might be fine and perfectly safe. At other tiimes and places in amongst pedestrians dogs etc 10mph may be way too fast. However if people can't self regulate then it invites the imposition of regulation. And that's when some numpty in the council decides that 10mph is the limit always and everywhere and then start to enforce it. Then the Strava warriors depart and the ordinary rider trying to get to work has to pootle along at walking pace while PCSOs hide in the bushes to catch them doing 15mph on an empty path.

I wouldn't be so keen to put a number on what constitues "too fast". some riders are better, more aware. It's about riding within yourself and your capabilities. Years ago whan I used to drive all over Europe for a a living, the Germans had a large poster on the side of motoways. The left side of the poster had a driver looking calm and relaxed and happy. The right side of the poster had the same driver red in the face, dripping sweat, leaning forward and gripping the wheel with white knuckles. The caption was: "Reisen nicht rasen." Travel don't race.

oozaveared wrote:

To be fair he has a point. If a mixed use path is being used as a race track then that creates a danger.

And if we want more infrastructure for cyclists then it shouldn't be used for racing.

If you want a good time trial time, do a proper time trial.

That goes for motorists too. If you want to drive like the Stig do it on a track day at a racing circuit.

I agree some roads are suitable for driving cars fast, some are not, and the only place for driving a car to its full limits is on a track. But unless Sustrans are planning on building some cycle paths that are not shared use, getting rid of those pesky pedestrians, where else would I ride? Or perhaps they'd like to see a 10mph speed limit enforced... Mustn't scare the horses after all. As for "do a proper time trial"... yes, OK, but training is generally accepted as beneficial?

And
“On the open road you never know when a pedestrian or a car is going to come out in front of you. I dread to think what could happen if there was a collision. Someone could be killed.”
No, what, really? Hold on... Rapha said cycling would make me immortal?