[unalteu]

Hey guys .

few weeks ago i was on a little cycle when i passed through a small square that i always go on and every other cyclist going on that square does not dismount ( going on google maps using street view can see it was a street there ; and recently made it pedestrian)
my point is everyone is cycling ,and while “the nothing better to do douche” officer was writing the fine there where about 5 cyclists going past us on their bikes which i pointed out, theres only a very small inconspicuous sign with the cycle in a red square thing .

Now the fine came with my last name misspelled CAZARCIUL instead of LAZARCIUC and DOB april instead of september

needeless to say i dont want to pay 75 £ for this nonsense ; as in UC also ..and its utterly ridiculous
what would you guys suggest ? fight it ; ignore it ..or .. its a “fixed penalty” notice
 

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5448316,-0.1038554,127a,35y,32.45h,45t/data=!3m1!1e3

the pedestrian area from macdonalds toward the tavern

Topic

[GMBasix]

By the way, the answer to the

By the way, the answer to the subject line:

ridiculous cycling fine

is,

No, it’s not.

[GMBasix]

Referring to my earlier post

Referring to my earlier post and IANAL, I would suggest that it is reasonable to:

• make a copy of the letter in case of subsequent legal action and you need to refer to it
• tape the envelope shut with the letter inside
• mark the envelope, “opened in error; addressee not known” and the sender’s address
• DON’T sign it or put your correct name on it
• put it in a post box

The practical outcome is that the issuing authority will then either correct the details and resend (hopefully with the discount option available) or cancel the whole thing as not worth it.

Don’t ignore it, because:

• by opening it and then doing nothing, it could be argued that you are acting to somebody’s detriment;
• the issuing authority will assume, in the absence of further information, that the notice has been served and will escalate accordingly; and
• a court may take a firmer view of de minimis interpretation than a beleagured council admin team might.

[jh2727]

I don’t know if it is

I don’t know if it is anything like PCN you get for (motor vehicle) parking offences – but I would have though that you’d have the opportunity to challenge the the notice within 14 days of receipt, without incurring any further penalty.

I would have thought that as lonpfrb says, having the wrong details would make the notice invalid and they would almost certainly cancel it – they might perhaps then simply issue a new one with the correct details (then again, if it is 14 days past the date of the offence, they may not be able to – or if they did you could challenge it again, on this basis).

Slight issue is that you’d have to admit to opening mail that was addressed to someone other than you… but I think it would be considered a reasonable error if you opened mail that came through your letterbox, without looking at the address (or sometimes, with windowlopes, the letter moves and the first line is not visible).

[Crippledbiker]

This is a bloody excellent
This is a bloody excellent post, 10/10.

[Crippledbiker]

Just for future reference –
Just for future reference – If a CEO attempts to stop you, ask them to produce a designation card.

They may well have one; If so, see what their designated powers are.

If they do not explicitly include the power to detain?

Simply walk away. There isn’t anything they can do about it.

(IANAL, this is not legal advice)

[matthewn5]

Lots of Islington people

Lots of Islington people complained when the design was first put out to comment that cyclists had to go the long way round the junction instead of taking the short and now traffic-free way. But to no avail. As it is, this big area of vomit stained paving has become a problem exactly as we foresaw, with drunks spilling out of the two pubs, a clutter of delivery mopeds and poor drainage. It’s also the most commented on place in Islington’s Commonplace consultation on low traffic neighbourhoods, with dozens (if not hundreds) of complaints about people cycling through… so you’ve been unlucky to come across the policing in response to that.
https://islingtonpeoplefriendlystreets.commonplace.is/comments

[AlsoSomniloquism]

f you came from the cycle

f you came from the cycle lane onto the crossing and if that is a toucan, you’d be expected to cross the road on your bike and then onwards

Although in theory, the cycle lane / crossing for it is one way with the road indicating all traffic coming the other way takes a left turn. 

[wtjs]

Lancs Police really ought to

Lancs Police really ought to have the responsibility for the prosecution of these sort of FPN traffic offences taken away from them

They should have parts of their anatomy taken away from them!

[HoarseMann]

wtjs wrote:

Lancashire Constabulary officers must be doing a roaring trade because road traffic offences usually do go away

You are proving that Lancs Police really ought to have the responsibility for the prosecution of these sort of FPN traffic offences taken away from them.

I think a council enforcement officer type setup would work much better for these sort of misdemeanours. Doesn’t need to be police.

[wtjs]

If the council have your

If the council have your details at that address somewhere else, like council tax, or electoral roll, I suspect ignoring it will trigger them to issue it again in the correct name. It’s unlikely to go away

It all rather depends on whether you would have to pay more in bribes than the proposed penalty, to make the offence go away. When the proper penalty is serious, people are prepared to pay more. Lancashire Constabulary officers must be doing a roaring trade because road traffic offences usually do go away: usually they just ignore red light offences by motorists, but if you follow-up cases they sometimes have to come up with some other dodge- generally, of course, they just ignore the ‘following-up’. I was informed by email that nothing could be done about the driver of Holdex Plywood heavy lorry SP12 CWY, of Bennington St, Audley Range, Blackburn BB1 1RR “because the NIP had been sent to the wrong address”- they don’t have to try too hard with excuses because of the laughable Lancashire Police Professional Standards department. 

[GMBasix]

I’m not going to suggest

I’m not going to suggest whether you should pay the penalty or not: get some proper legal advice.

In passing, opening post is not illegal unless it is with the intention of acting to a person’s detriment without reasonable cause:

“A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him.” Postal Services Act 2000, s84(3).
– it is dependent on both intention to act to somebody’s detriment and without reasonable cause.  On the face of it, both of these have to be proved by the prosecution. Opening misdirected or misaddressed post in error is common enough to be unintentional. In the unlikely event that you were charged with this, the penalty is severe enough that you would seek legal advice:  I’m just somebody on the internet, however wise and knowledgeable I undoubtedly am.

As for the original penalty, the sequence of questioning is likely to be:

• Did you do this thing?
  you haven’t explicitly said that you did not dismount when you ought, but we can infer from this that you did commit the offence.  You have a decision between accepting a specifed, limited penalty on the chin for an offence you committed, and fighting against some technicalities (some of which may be appropriate, others may be administrative).
• Does doing that thing amount to an offence?
  regardless of the signage, it is only an offence if an applicable Traffic Regulation Order, bylaw, PSPO, or other regulation is correctly in place at the time of the alleged offence for the location of the alleged offence. On its own, the signage is not itself an enforceable regulation. Good luck with that, you probably do not have time to investigate this without the discount expiring, although you might negotiate an extension. It appears to be a recent implementation, in which case you might find details of the notice of the TRO via local newspapers, the LHA’s solicitor (the Borough Solicitor’s office at the town hall), or minutes of relevant local authority meetings. Since it must have been out for consultation, you might also track it down via the local authority’s public consultation records. That might be a source of finding fault with the TRO if it has not been properly consulted.  If you find that there is a failure in the TRO/etc, then an offence has not been committed.
• Is that offence enforceable?
  If the TRO/etc is in place, then it can only be enforced of there is reasonable signage in place.  From the Google Maps link, there is a big sign at the Brexit Arms Wetherspoons end, that could be argued to be to one side, away from the dropped kerb, with the inference that cyclists are invited to use one side of the pedestrianised zone by virtue of a lack of signage to the right hand side.  At the other end, the sign on the side of the Piers Morgan Arms Famous Cock is not angled well to apply to the closed off road section.  The trouble is, cyclists are not invited to use the right hand side from the Wetherspoons end (there’s no blue cycling sign to that effect, and there is a large No Cycling sign close by in plain sight); and the similar sign at the other end clearly applies to the site before it, and there is no delineation which might reasonably suggest that the sign is limited.  The signage is there, and you would be expecting knot-tying flexibility in interpretation to suggest otherwise.
  However, approaching from Highbury Station Road, it is difficult to see from Street View whether No Cycling signage is present.  It may appear as you enter form there onto the pedestiranised area. There are several Sheffield stands, which implies a desire to encourage cycling, and a lack of signage from there onto the pedestrian section would probably make that route unenforceable.  Did you approach from that direction?
• Have they correctly enforced it?
  Doesn’t seem like it, but then some errors may be interpreted as de minimis. You need a solicitor to say whether this letter would be applied to you even with the errors. If you want your legal representative to stand in court and profess your innocence on the basis of more than just the typos, you will need to avoid the question of whether tou actually rode through the section. You will need to start with the question, “this is my name and DoB; this is the letter that has popped on my mat; should I be worried?”

If the answers to the above are: Ye, Yes, Yes and, for the sake of de minimis acceptance, Yes, you will need to pay up.

On the morality of it.  It may be a bit of a nuisance – clearly the desire lines were not well thought-out for cycling – but there is a cycle lane that loops round the Highbury island.  Get some exercise and take the long way round, or get off and avoid the hassle as you take the short cut.

 

[Mungecrundle]

Unfortunately the law and
Unfortunately the law and fairness are different things. Encouraged by internet lawyers you could easily convince yourself of your watertight case, only to be completely out of your depth in a Magistrates Court. If you enjoy a good argument, can afford to possibly have costs as well as a fine awarded against you, have plenty of spare time to waste and don’t suffer any sort of anxiety about being in conflict with authority then go for it. Otherwise, chalk it up to experience and cut out non essential High Street purchases to the balance of the fine.

Maybe write to the local paper so that local businesses are aware of the negative effect of overzealous enforcement Officers and the local Gammons can rage about almost being killed by a crazed cyclist on the pavement and they once heard about one going through a red light without insurance or a helmet.

[HoarseMann]

Yep, you could argue that.

Yep, you could argue that. But I think if it does go to court, the fact they’d had a conversation with an enforcement officer would probably sway the magistrate against you. Might be worth a go, but the costs/fine would be a lot more if you lost.

I know when the police didn’t get a response from the first NIP they sent out in my case, they then talked about the DVLA record perhaps having the wrong address, so they would perform a ‘trace request’. Whatever that is! But I got the impression it was a trawl of records associated with the name/address of the registered owner. They came back that utility bills, electrol roll etc all pointed to the same address, so they sent an officer around.

[IanMSpencer]

I’d put a post on pepipoo.com
I’d put a post on pepipoo.com

They have very knowledgeable people who give excellent advice.

The main difference between councils and private parking ticketers is that councils are under an obligation to act reasonably, so people who know how councils work may well have clever ideas as to how to argue this which may not be obvious to us mere mortals.

[Moist von Lipwig]

If you’re going to contest it

If you’re going to contest it, it may depend on where you were arriving from. If its this link.

https://goo.gl/maps/KZJQNQpBNRNuzZn4A

if you’ve come straight at it and can see the sign – dubious.

If you;ve come from the other side from the segregated cycle lane – is that crossing a toucan or a ped crossing?  theres a secondary head next to the ped symbol but I can’t tell whats on it.  If you came from the cycle lane onto the crossing and if that is a toucan, you’d be expected to cross the road on your bike and then onwards there doesn’t seem to be anyhting to indicate the cycle lane has ended (warning paving) and the no cycling sign is not immediately apparent from the direction you;re encountering it.  if thats not a toucan there should be something between the grey and red tactiles to indicate cycle facilities end.

If you adopt the same principle as a no entry sign, where both sides are signed. that area is too wide to have a single sign plonked on a convenient pole at a random location to act as full signage.

[Author]

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