Issues with Evans Cycles and my Pinnacle bike

I've got very little to add as Canyon48 has just solved this thread- just the kind of genuinely informed answer you hope for when scrolling through half baked opinions (see my previous post).

You'll get some kind of goodwill gesture from Evans by being friendly and reasonable, or by maybe ambushing a store manager with threats of legal action and irrelevant guidelines but (a plea from someone who works in customer service) the former is much more satisfying all round.

Haven't read the whole of the above thread but who's to say that the mech hanger wasn't damaged by you through daily wear and tear (as they do even when bikes are treated well - it doesn't take that much to break a mech hanger). Would it be Evans problem still? 

(FWIW I also have an Arkose and experienced issues with the original hanger - the rear wheel would slide forward in the dropout slightly under load. Nothing was mentioned about a sudden failure of the hanger though I guess one issue could lead to the other. I got the email and a letter I think as well and as I wasn't happy to take the bike in they sent a replacement and a tool to do the job - a chainring bolt wrench).

I've just noticed that the product recall was for wheel slip issues. Your mech hanger failed mechanically but your wheel stayed in place. Unfortunately, this seems to make the recall irrelevant to your situation.

As others have said, it's a difficult one!

This gets into the legal side of engineering, which takes a bit to get your head around.

First off, I would say that you certainly can't compare it to a car service (you would think you should be able to, but in reality, you cant'). The reason for this is the different quality standards the items are made to. Cars are made to ISO 16949 and (usually) ISO 9001, bicycles are made to ISO 4210. The difference in these Quality Management Systems is massive, i.e. your local bike builder can build to ISO 4210, but it's very difficult to get ISO 9001 as you have to implement a fully audited QMS.

Cars (just like planes) are made to a standard which encompasses recalls etc and they have to be taken far more seriously (I assume due to liability etc). This information is distributed in formal engineering documents as safety bulletins; because car garages are compliant with certain testing standards, they receive this bulletins. Car garages use digital systems to record info on your car and these will show various bulletins etc.

Your local bike shop has none of this, they see a bike in, service it and see it out again. Just because it was a "safety" recall doesn't mean it would be checked in a "safety check" (it probably would, however, if the manufacturer and shop were accredited to the same QMS). A prime example would be a frame failure would be considered a safety issue, but I wouldn't expect a bike shop to, for example, x-ray a carbon bike to look for carbon failures.

The recall wouldn't have been issued by Evans (merely communicated), it's not up to Evans to ensure every bike has the recall carried out - they won't even have the liability. It is the manufacturer who must issue a recall (to comply with their accreditation), but, again, it isn't up to them to ensure every part is replaced.

I really struggle to see any way that Evans have any legal liability to check for recalled parts, granted, they would if they were accredited to a standard which encompasses this, but they aren't. I also find it highly implausible that Evans will have a database of every bike with recalls that they are able to refer to when servicing bikes.

Despite this, a really good mechanic/bike shop would be aware of issues with products they sell/sold and I would expect them to be able to advise on such issues. In my experience, Evans isn't even a particularly good bike shop...

Oh, and by the way, quality engineering isn't the most exciting topic!

I'd say it's an extremely tricky one to be honest, especially to prove. 

There is a strong chance although it was a safety recall on the product they may ask you to prove that you were not at fault for breaking the hanger. Normally the fault is for a certain percentage so they have to recall all the products.

Under normal circumstances I would have expected the hanger to have broken a lot quicker than 2 and a half years if it wasn't substantially strong.

It also looks like your hanger may have been bent before it broke but it is hard to tell from the image

Yep - I reckon you've got a strong position there. Print that out, highlight the relevant sections and wave it under an Evans' manager's nose and hopefully they'll recompense you straight away. Otherwise it's lawyering time.

Its a safety issue, and as they've had your bike in for a service they should have done the replacement then. Once a recall is issued they tend not to have a time limit (Kinesis are still replacing forks for example). 

Pretty much any part failing on a bike is a safety issue, and a rear mech going through the wheel certainly is. They could argue that it was your own fault for not following up the recall or even that it was damaged by a previous crash but the fact they've touched your bike since the recall and not replaced it is the important thing here. Question is, is it worth Small Claims? A Pinnacle rear wheel is going to be £60 plus your train fares, that's about the limit of liability.

It's a tricky one.

If it's a safety issue then you could try to sue either/both of the retailer (Evans) and the producer (Pinnacle). Also, you would expect that your service would cover safety issues.

If it's not a safety issue, then you could try pursuing the retailer for the bike not being fit for purpose. I don't know whether the time taken for it to fail would be significant or not (personally, I'd expect a hanger to not break unless hit by something).

I'd probably argue that it is a safety issue as a sudden breaking of the hanger could easily cause you to lose control.

I don't know if this link will help at all: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/product-liability-and-safety-law

You've got a point!

I also reckon that Evans haven't got any liability for your  problems other than the hanger which I would hope they would replace free of charge. Apart from anything else there is no way we can know at this point what has caused the derailleur to break after 2.5  years.

Evans have taken reasonable steps to sort out this potencially faulty product  through the recall, and you haven't (by ignoring it), so don't think you can expect them to take responsibility here. Sometimes things break and it isn't anyones fault!

I think the silver service is a bit of a red herring as checking each component's part number isn't what you paid for. Presumerably the bike was adequately serviced, and its hard to see that someone could have spotted by eye that the hanger would break two years later.

It is well worth giving your sob story to Evans and hopefully their customer service will pull through with something. If you go in telling them they owe you though you may well get the response of what you are legally entitled to (pretty much nada).

Given that you'd received the email about the recall and for whatever reason not acted on it. I'm of the mind that they acted in the right manner by informing you.

However I'm on your side about the service, just in the same manner a car is dealt with, as the supplier here should have been an asterix against your model/serial number of your bike with any recalls to watch out for. They supplied a faulty product upon sale, the onus should be on them to be aware of this if the product ever came back to them for servicing, upgrading or amendment. 

However I am slightly torn on this, I do not beleive that it is reasonable for anyone to check a hanger 'type' under most circumstances, check for alignment maybe, but it's a pretty innocuous part, like a bolt or a screw in the most part. 

Do I think it's worthy of compensation.. no, becuase you had recieved the email and not acted upon it, and you've had two and a half years of happy cycling since. However on the flip side, Evans would have been 'compensated' for the recall by Pinnicale at the time of the recall, ergo, they should really 'morally' do what it takes to make you happy and push that cost on to their supplier. If I were them I'd give you a top of the range service FOC as a goodwill gesture. 

I'm sure some would be more militant in this situation. But this is my rather confused opinion.