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There are overrides, you can quickly override the automatic sensor to dark/dim/light and also toggle all outputs on/off from the main screen. Some of your situations are handled automatically, like fog - we specifically chose a rear sensor that is IR filtered so it's not skewed by the suns IR power over artifical lighting.

Riding in the dark is either dangerous and/or illegal (on maintained roads) so we can't comment on it.

We don't want to encourage using the App for overrides and may have a bluetooth handlebar control for doing it. To date every C1 user has found the automatic control to be excellent so ongoing feedback around this will impact whether we invest into it.

Technically speaking the App for iOS is already ready, but we're waiting for Apple's next iOS release where they are being forced by EU legislation (by March) to allow for side loading. The majority of Apple users don't know that the costs of distributing a 'free' App on Apple are prohibitive in terms of requiring Apple hardware and a yearly enterprise fee. The closed eco-system is bad for everyone but Apple - and companies need to take a stand against such behaviour.

It is good to be concerned about longevity. We're commited to open-source both the App and Firmware if at any point we can't maintain it.

Appreciate that you'd prefer manual switches, but you can't do 1/10th of what the Igaro C1 does in that case. You may wish to look at all the functionality exposed by the App (see the manual page) and ask how switches would do it.

igarocom wrote:

Technically speaking the App for iOS is already ready, but we're waiting for Apple's next iOS release where they are being forced by EU legislation (by March) to allow for side loading. The majority of Apple users don't know that the costs of distributing a 'free' App on Apple are prohibitive in terms of requiring Apple hardware and a yearly enterprise fee. The closed eco-system is bad for everyone but Apple - and companies need to take a stand against such behaviour.

Apple are only going to enable sideloading in regions affected by the EU DMA, so basically the EU27 and EEA. Sideloading will still be blocked everywhere else, so realistically you're going to have to go in the App Store to reach iOS users in US, Canada, Aus/NZ, UK, etc. 

I wouldn't have considered the distribution costs to be prohibitive IMO, isn't it $299 a year and 30% of revenue (30% of 0.00 for a free app)? Regarding hardware, I've done cross-platform iOS/Android stuff using Xamarin before (other frameworks are available) and although I use Macs myself, colleagues used Windows on the same project. Worst case you'd need a Mac mini and an iOS device for debug testing and to handle the App Store, not hugely expensive. 

> Appreciate that you'd prefer manual switches, but you can't do 1/10th of what the Igaro C1 does in that case

that's exactly what I'm talking about. I appreaciate the abundance of options in the product, I really do. My point is that having a mechanical switch to override electronic "buttons" wins in a long term.

Also.. "The closed eco-system is bad for everyone but Apple" but at the same moment your product is a proprietary product with closed source code, am I right? Why not to opensource the code right now so anyone with enough knowledge would be able to use the device?

Meanwhile, I have to wait till March and see if users in the UK (like myself) will be able to use the app.

It may be a great product but I can't even test it!

We found in real-world riding on test in Africa we didn't yearn for manual switches. The Igaro C1 isn't simply on/off, it solves the conundrum once and for all over how much power goes into lights and/or USB to prevent them fighting for power, and adds huge super-capacitors so users don't need a power-bank to get optimal extraction from the dynamo hub. This automation is new and switches are the old!

Running through your example of an on/off switch, what is "on", is it 10%, 50% or 100%? Is it flashing mode? Should USB shutdown completely or go into a lower current mode? Do you want the same behaviour when its daytime as you do for dusk and night? Is "On"; low, main, combined, low with main combined or main with low combined? How about when the bicycle is stationary, should the switch do something different? There are simply too many permutations for switches to handle.

We do have the option of connecting to multiple Bluetooth devices, specifically 'remote camera shutter' type devices where the buttons act as notifications, but it doesn't resolve the configuration issue unless we introduce 'configuration saved as profiles'. It's food for thought, we'll be adding features if we can be convinced there's a need for them.

Regarding the closed-source query, the Igaro C1 hardware is complex and driven by software which has to carefully controlled and tested. It would otherwise be easy to brick and/or destroy the device. We're also not going to allow our competitors to leap a decade into our knowledge space by analysing the software to work out how the hardware works. No apologies on that one!

Cost is not the issue for an iOS app and prohibitive was the wrong word to use. We just don't want to aid a monopolist. Apart from the rear light this is currently a high priority to resolve as many are asking for it and there is a good chance we'll be going ahead with it earlier than March.

You may not have missed the switches in Africa and I'm all for letting it optimise charging on it's own but what about dip/main beam? If it's automatic how do you flash the car coming towards you with it's main beam on? I currently use B and M lights and charging, I realise the charging isn't the most efficient nowadays but love the beam pattern if only it had a main beam for occasional use...

Again, I want to apologise in advance if my comments are not very clear.
I'm certain the Igaro C1 is a great product and I'd love to try one (and, probably, have it in a future).

My comments is nothing but my point of view at this moment, without even trying the product.

> Running through your example of an on/off switch, what is "on", is it 10%, 50% or 100%? Is it flashing mode? Should USB shutdown completely or go into a lower current mode? Do you want the same behaviour when its daytime as you do for dusk and night?

Personally I'd love to have a manual override mode. "Disable smart stuff and do dumb stuff" mode will satisfy a lot of users, especially if that means the final price is reduced by 50-70-100 gbp. There are people who like electronic shifting and people who like manual shifting.

> users don't need a power-bank to get optimal extraction from the dynamo hub.

I personally always carry a power bank - because with it I can charge my phone in a tent or inside my tailfin.

> This automation is new and switches are the old!

The old solution has been tested for decades by tens of thousands of people, the new automation has not. I'm not saying your solution is worse, absolutely not. Just this argument is invalid.

I'm sorry, I just noticed that the manual mentions "The Igaro R1 a companion rear light will arrive in the near future."

Is it possible to connect the existing rear lights to the unit?

How easy is to disconnect the rear light from the main unit? (unfortunately the picture on the website is very bright and not so many details of the connector is visible) Is it possible to do without any tools or with a simple cycling multitool?

Is there a video showing the automation of front light in different scenarios?
- a lightened city
- less lightened city
- pitch black
- under canopy, day time
- under canopy, dusk
- under canopy, heavy clouds
- forest trails
- full beam reaction time to an oncoming traffic
- full beam pattern in a road descend with corners

after all, 400 gbp is a huge investment for a new light, considering I already have Edelux and sinewave convertor.

You'll find answers to the rear light question on the C1 FAQ page. The manual page also shows the leads better - they are standard JST connectors which plug in easy, no tools required. The rear light will be cheap, it's just an LED with housing (all the electronics are inside the C1).

We don't have much footage at the moment, every time we've arranged a night over the past month it's been raining with mist - no good for the camera!

"the app is not available for iOS users and "they hope to release it" in March.. or April. Or will it be in July?"

We released it on March 26th.

Not April. Not July.

The LLUM has the same issue as the Beacon 2, rain goes into the USB port and ruins it. Electrolysis is unavoidable between charged metals and liquid. For the Igaro C1 we've considered long term usage, which is why the rain cover is extensive and the USB rear board is replaceable should it ever get to that point.

While some may advertise 1300 lumens this is impossible from dynamo power. We use CREE XD16 emitters which at maximum brightness offer 6W of light, 8W of power draw (so 75% efficiency) and ~700 lumens. A SON28 at maximum saturation point (extremely fast, most riders will never hit it) yields 9.5W of power. If any light could use the full 9.5W it would be about 750 lumens.

Only the Igaro C1 and Supernova M99 use reactance tuning and MPPT (you can read about these on our website). Without this a light can't get above about 6W of draw and the real output doesn't make 500 lumens. In reality due to other factors like the transmission index of the glass and rectification losses (another two areas where the Igaro C1 excels) it's less.

Twowheelsaregreat wrote:

but that has low speed flicker which is very poor

just out of curiousity -- at what speed the flickering occurs? I've been considering to get M99

I don't know the speed range precisely, but I noticed it on another audaxers' bike as he was slowing down prior to pulling up next to us, as we were standing outside a Mcdonalds one evening. I though ooh haven't seen one of those lights in the flesh yet (after previously yearning for one) but also thought...it flickered. The Beacon put me of flickering dyno lights and to use one of those on an mtb where speeds are generally slower than road then it's definately a no-go for me. At least with the Beacon you can add an external battery to overcome this oversight. Not so with the M99. It might be tolerable for most road cyclists but if the Exposure Revo can avoid it then why can't these more expensive alternatives?

It also mentions it here https://bikepacking.com/gear/supernova-m99-dy-pro-review/

It probably doesn't need saying but we will add it to the FAQ, the Igaro C1 is flicker-free at any speed. Also worth a mention is internally the hardware uses voltage (rather than PWM) control for the LEDs (front and rear) and therefore there's no flickering when recording video footage.

You have a range of options...Igaro charger, B&M charger, Sinewave Charger....the list goes on....then add light only, e.g. Exposre Revo, numerous B&M lights, Son lights, etc. Igaro's C1 is unique; sounds like it's not for you but you do have alternatives. B&M is probably more within your budget.

You're not a connoisseur of high end dynamo lights for backpacking and ultra distance rides then?  This is in the ballpark with KLite and Sine Wave, and in the same range as most Exposures as well.

If it does what it is promised to do it's probably a reasonable price.  As a Klite owner Im intrigued 

Don't judge by your narrow worldview.

It was investigated and decided against, doing so would have added at least 5mm depth to the rear of the unit and would run a risk of the thread stripping at that depth (the shell is aluminium).

The App is for configuration and control overrides, the Igaro C1 controls itself. Once 'dialed in' to the users riding style and requirements then by and large the App isn't needed.

Any setup requiring an app with Bluetooth is a dealbreaker. You could give it away for free and I won't go near it. A pointless hassle and a dependency on the company. I am sure you would not be wanting to maintain said app in 10 years time nor will the customer.

There is no other means to do what the Igaro C1 offers as the configurability is in excess of what switches could provide. Nothing like the Igaro C1 has ever been done before and it requires a different train of thought. Whereas on other lights you may have -

"a simple mechanical override switch to change it to just lights"

The Igaro C1 will do this automatically. It'll also put your lights on lower during dusk and reduce the power going to the USB, in a perfect power balancing operation. You decide through configuration and leave the control side of it to the Igaro C1.

The Igaro C1 will be around for a lot longer than 10 years simply because (at least with current technology) we can't improve it, and we'll be maintaining the App with it. At the point at which the App can't be maintained by us for whatever reason we'd release both the source-code for the App and the firmware for the Igaro C1.

I appreciate manufacturers who come on to comment.

Not in my universe (that's half the cost of my carbon-fork cycle with all its accessories which I bought in 2015), but I wish you success in your niche. 

Muddy Ford wrote:

£350!

Sits nicely on the "good value" £745 aero bars…

Not as ridiculous as it seems from the title as the charger with supercapacitors is a large part of the cost. The stvzo regulations are great for not dazzling others but limit the dynamo output (and dim steady rear light) so balancing charging and lights is challenging. If this does a good job of it and has a decent beam pattern it could be a worthwhile investment.