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forum
Should retailers accept returns on bibshorts?
So after extensive research I purchased a pair of Castelli Nanoflex bibs from Wiggle, paying strict attention to the size guide. They are rated 4.4/5 on Wiggle's site, and the only 'fit' problems raised are with length.
Tried them on in the privacy of my own home, looked good, felt good, all OK. No bunching anywhere, feel snug whilst not restrictive, etc etc.
Go out on a ride, and within 20 miles, it feels like I'm sitting on a rolled-up sock. After 40 miles, I genuinely had to check I had them on the right way around (correct).
Get home, give them a good wash, all seams/pad seem correct and accounted for.
Return them to Wiggle for a refund, and they say:
"We have received back your Castelli Nanoflex Bibshorts you would like us to refund due to the item not fitting. All customers have the opportunity to try on goods when they first receive them to check the fit and size of the item before using them. We hope you can appreciate that we have to follow our own returns procedure to ensure that we only sell goods in the best possible condition, we don't sell used goods so we cannot accept back used goods. All returned goods must be returned to us unused in there original packaging and labels http://www.wiggle.co.uk/h/option/returnsprocedure. Unfortunately sizing issues are not a manufacturing fault therefore are not covered by warranty, due to this we are only able to return this item back to you"
Now I ride about 5,000 miles a year. I have never had a saddle sore. I have never had any kind of issue in the nether department. Be it wearing normal. knicks or full-length bibs, waistband shorts or MTB baggies with a pad.
Should a retailer have to honour a return where the customer has done everything they could to ensure it was a quality product, the right size, the correct fit, used correctly - and yet the product is simply not fit for purpose?
Aside from Wiggle's stupidity at potentially losing for life a customer who spends about £500 a year on stuff over an item they probably made £10 margin on, can I actually go them in a small claims court under the distance selling regs?
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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70 comments
Let's move beyond the fact this is a bit of kit that's intimately connected to your arse, OK?
A retailer cannot sell you *anything* that's been used, unless they state as such. That would be illegal. I don't expect Wiggle to do so, and quite right I'd be cross if I received a 'new' item that had been used.
The point being if you buy something - a light, shoes, bike computer, toaster, TV, whatever - if once you've unwrapped it, binned the packaging, then find it fundamentally does not do the job you'd reasonably expect it to do, having followed the manufacturer's instructions, the retailer should give your money back.
If that happens often then the retailer or manufacturer goes broke because they sold a patently crap product. On occasion it will happen that something slips through quality control. You, I and all the keyboard warriors hereabouts don't know what the case was - maybe the pad was too firm for some reason, or the fit was out, as does happen between plants or design years. That's not my concern. It's then that the retailer, distributor or manufacturer steps up and accepts that as a cost of business sometimes shit happens. I'm a businessman. I lost €700 the other day sending an engineer to put right something that technically wasn't my fault, but appreciating they have a choice and to keep the customer happy we sucked it up.
In this case as a long-time Castelli / Wiggle customer, I expect them to do some sucking up. I'm surprised so many are jumping to defend a £13Bn private-equity-backed retailer for whom a team manager's time to even look at an issue like this probably cost them more than the reseller purchase price.
Man continues to sulk...
Mike, give it up fella. Sometimes shorts don't really fit that well, but sending them back after you've worn them for a ride was never going to work. I've had 20-30 pairs of shorts over the years and some of them just don't suit my bum. Castelli shorts don't work for me either, but it's just tough.
Seriously, you aren't coming across as a sensible person with a legitimate concern anymore.
Northface not really a retailer, a manufacturer who sells direct and has confidence in their own product, not a 3rd parties, to offer that, and it's pretty tight on it's conditions. Buy it through a reseller (Probably saving money at the same time.) and it doesn't count.
75%refund for used kecks? Take it and pull in that lip before it snags your front wheel.
You sound a bit mental. What retailers are there which accept clothes with the tag removed to be returned used?
Christ, would you take half a bag of spuds back to Tesco because the ones you ate didn't make as good a bowl of mash as you were expecting?
http://www.thenorthface.com/en_US/contact-us/return-policy/
This retailer. You may have heard of them. Maybe they are 'a bit mental' as well.
They'll probably be out of business before you know it, with a customer service/returns policy like that.
But of course, the collective wisdom of Road.CC forum denizens knows better.
It's not uncommon for a manufacturer to offer a refund or replacement policy if the product is no good.
Retailers, like Wiggle, not so much. Like my Turbo, I bought it from Total Cycling but I registered my warranty with Kurt themselves and will contact them with any claims I may have. Perhaps you might be wise to take it up with Castelli for making ill fitting gear. Or yourself, for having an ill fitting arse.
Is this for real?
Shorts with Richard Widmarks going back on the shelf?
Great now I have to look out for pubes and shit stains when I buy my next pair of shorts from Wiggle.
I've got to agree with those who think it is unreasonable to expect a retailer to refund for used garments if there is no fault other than it doesn't suit. It's a bit like trying to take a sandwich back if you don't like it after the first few bites - this is reasonable if the cheese is mouldy, but not if you just decide you're bored of cheddar.
In my experience Wiggle is the absolute best for returning stuff - it's hassle-free and cost free, and you can take your time. I've returned loads of stuff including shoes and shorts, and never had a problem, even when some of the packaging is not still perfect, but then it has always been unused beyond trying on for fit.
I've also had items that have proved uncomfortable with extended use, but by then I figure it's mine, so I'll either sell it or use it for shorter rides. (Actually I also have a pair of Castelli shorts that aren't 'right', but I use them for short rides or on the turbo quite happily).
Put them on ebay, you'll get most of your money back, maybe more than the 75% offer.
Distance selling means you get the same chance to look at the goods as you would in a shop.
It doesn't mean you can go out and USE the product and then when its not suitable for you personally, you think you can return it.
I would be well chuffed to be offered 75% value on a used product.
KiwiMike in DNA test demand!
"I thought my arse was Italian; I feel disappointed"
Kim Kardashian to pay for counselling...
I can't believe that you even had the audacity to return them after using them.
It beggars belief the sense of entitlement that some people have.
You should bite their hand off for the 75% refund!
I have a pair of Castelli Nanoflex and find them to be absolutely faultless. The sense of "floating on air" you get while using them is quite disconcerting. I keep having to check to see that I don't have a rear puncture!
I have the 3/4 version of these. They are awesome.
Attempts at sulk justification by claiming public service fall on deaf ears as sulk intensifies.
I was refused a return on a pair of bib shorts I purchased this summer from their Prudential Ride London stand at the excel after they developed a tear in the pad (let the jokes ensue) after 2 months of light wear.
Is that something worth pursuing?
I think the warranty on manufacturing defects is 12 months, so I'd say so. Castelli were great at organising a replacement set of armwarmers through the UK agent when the stitching came undone after 3 months of use. Even though they were purchased in Switzerland.
Man continues to sulk.
No, I'm pro-actively engaging with the retailer, distributor and manufacturer to resolve the issue and will advise when it is, either way.
Hopefully others will benefit from this in future. It's clearly an issue for this particular retailer to get right, as pointed out other major brands/retailers don't have a problem with exchanges/refunds on products that don't work out. If you personally like risking your cash and think the Distance Selling Regulations or other consumer legislation is not needed, feel free to accept poor CS.
Noting this isn't a 'hygiene' issue - the item in question could have been a light, or GPS, or shoe. The retailer could have been anyone. 'Fit for Purpose' isn't a literal use of 'Fit'.
75% refund offer and you're still whining? Amazing.
Man learns life isn't always fair; sulks.
Person doesn't get fundamentals of customer service, brand loyalty, economics in a competitive market, or indeed UK/EU Distance Selling Regulations. Posts comment.
Well, his line is basically the same as Wiggle's, and since it was recently reported on here that they have become the UK's biggest cycling retailer I'd say they've got a pretty good grasp of the fundamentals of customer service, brand loyalty, and economics in a competitive market.
I don't doubt the ability of individual CS reps or team leaders to make errors of judgement, nor for currently-dominant retailers of commodity products to quickly fall from grace and ultimately go broke. 'Big' ≠ 'Right'.
'Not granting every customers' every wish' ≠ 'Bad strategy for economic success'
'Granting every customers' every wish' ≠ 'Best thing to do at all times for business'
Distance selling regs exclude underwear for a refund, unless faulty.
These would be classed as underwear for the fact they are intended to be worn with nothing under them.
Not fitting, or you not liking them is not faulty. How ever you try and spin it.
I'd say you don't understand the fundamentals of the distance selling regs, or just choose to apply it in the way you like, and have cried when you didn't get the answer you liked.
From http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regul...
"The goods you can't return: There are some goods you can't return if you simply change your mind, including:
...
underwear"
This wasn't a 'simple change of mind'. This was clearly stated to the retailer at time of return (and in the original post, but never mind). Granted, they may decide not to accept the customer's explanation that their product caused physical pain when used as designed. That's when true customer service values kick in. Or not. My experience with Castelli says they are very good at supporting loyal customers / brand advocates who have genuine issues with products that don't deliver when used as designed.
The shorts have been USED so its totally reasonable they won't accept them as a return. The fact it was "only" one ride, is neither here nor there. It tough luck. Put them on ebay and don't buy Castelli again.
Some manufacturer's will give unconditional returns because they're that confident in their product but at a supplier level I don't think its often the case.
I doubt you'd find a retailer who would accept a return on used goods unless they were demonstrably faulty (or had a supplier scheme). They just don't fit you, and that's tough luck unfortunately.
I don't think it's reasonable, havnig worn them to send them back.
I ordered two pairs of tights from Wiggle wore one & found it was too short after a ride. I send the second, unopened one back & got a replacement.
Having done that I left a review on the tights & mentioned the sizing chart was too small and the advice I got from their on-line char was wrong. They just read the same chart I guess. The review was denied as being "against guidelines", but no further explanation given.
I could have washed them thoroughly, put the tag back on (Castelli ones are held in place by a safety pin) and returned as 'unworn, size wrong'.
Instead, I was honest and explained everything in detail.
That's what it gets you.
So you followed the rules, lost out on cash, they denied you the chance to warn others, and you *still* think they are right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome, much?
As unconstituted said above re. returning boots, the outdoors industry has a model in place here. Why should I accept that because it's my arse not my foot, that things are different? No-one's going to try to resell *anything* that's used.
Retailers should have the confidence to back their products and help conscientious consumers when things go wrong. Plenty of firms have policies where they allow returns up to a year later, no questions asked. Case in point: NorthFace: a one-year, no-quibble used-kit return for a full refund. *THAT'S* good CS.
http://www.thenorthface.com/en_US/contact-us/return-policy/
You don't see NorthFace going broke, or hordes buying their kit to return after one hillwalk.
=======================
An update: Wiggle CS have offered a 75% refund. Still not happy with that. I haven't done anything wrong. I trusted a much-loved brand and a frequently-used retailer to give me a usable product.
What did you say when returning them? Surely you just reattach the tag, stick them in the bag and select "wrong size."
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