‘We need to stop finger-wagging about helmets’; Paradise Lost: Snake Pass no longer open to cyclists; Ganna’s not-so-marginal gains; Puerile puns at Paris-Nice; Prog and the Peloton; Cycling > convoluted petrol-saving tips+ more on the live blog

38 thoughts on “‘We need to stop finger-wagging about helmets’; Paradise Lost: Snake Pass no longer open to cyclists; Ganna’s not-so-marginal gains; Puerile puns at Paris-Nice; Prog and the Peloton; Cycling > convoluted petrol-saving tips+ more on the live blog”

1. Quote:

   According to Banks’ informant, visitors posing for photos had caused the slip to move a further two metres.

   I think you’ve misread that. The tweet says visitors were posing for photos and it had moved a further two metres – not that the one had caused the other.

   Log In or Register to post comments

   • That’s how Id read it too,

     That’s how Id read it too, people posing for selfies (why!!) and the slip has moved, but hadnt had enough coffee yet to be sure 

     The problem whichever body is responsible for that road has is if someone got injured whilst posing for their selfie or the road collapsed further, theyd be in legally awkward position by being held responsible for allowing people to still use the road whilst it was known to be unsafe and increasingly unsafe at that, or even by just allowing cyclists which encourages more traffic to attempt to use the road.

     Log In or Register to post comments

     • Our country is mercifully low

       Our country is mercifully low in the number of selfie deaths. I am not inclined to believe that it because we are inherently more sensible, so I guess authorities taking action to prevent obviously dangerous things may play a part. (BTW Top 3 India, USA, Russia)

       Log In or Register to post comments

   • You could well be right – I

     You could well be right – I’ll update it accordingly. Though it did seem like there was a correlation between the two! Cheers.

     Log In or Register to post comments

2. Have posted this on the forum
   Have posted this on the forum too, but here’s a link to a Zoom event this evening for International Women’s Day:
   https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZMtceiprTktG9FR047F6ZBN5VBjsRzyXBF8

   Lady Pedal – Women’s Cycling Stories – part v
   Mar 8, 2022 07:00 PM

   All the info you need is available via the link.

   Log In or Register to post comments

3. In a crash off a bike
   In a crash off a bike surrounded by cyclists, a helmet might help limit the damage. When you’re crushed by a lorry driven by someone not paying attention on a road you’re forced to share with them, not so much.

   Log In or Register to post comments

4. Prog rock:

   Prog rock:

   Q: Why do people ride bikes?

   A: Well, there was a rush along the Fulham Road…

   (I’ll get mi coat)

   Log In or Register to post comments

   • Team Ineos prog rock album

     Team Ineos prog rock album about TT, “In The Hot Seat” by Egan, Luke & Pavel. 

     (pick up my coat while you’re there please)

      

     Log In or Register to post comments

5. Others, such as Banks herself

   “”Others, such as Banks herself and cycling writer Simon Warren, were sceptical that the council’s apparent decision to ban people on bikes was based on concern for their safety on the “perfectly passable” pass:  “”

   Isnt Snake Pass under the jurisdiction of Highways England as a trunk road ?

   Log In or Register to post comments

6. Thomas de Gendt showing an

   Thomas de Gendt showing an excellent grasp of idiomatic english there.

   Log In or Register to post comments

7. ‘You can’t just lop bits off

   ‘You can’t just lop bits off the bike’: UK firm debuts bicycle for people with dwarfism

   Islabikes to mass-produce model specifically for adults with achondroplasia, after working with campaign group

   https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/mar/08/you-cant-just-lop-bits-off-uk-firm-debuts-bike-for-people-with-dwarfism

   Log In or Register to post comments

8. Re. Prog Rock Racing – how

   Re. Prog Rock Racing – how could you overlook Furious Form by Roglič Tentacles?

   (There’s also the compilation album ‘Vitamin’ Enhanced, but perhaps we’d best not go there…)

   Log In or Register to post comments

   • Brilliant. Top marks.

     Brilliant. Top marks.

     Log In or Register to post comments

9. Yes much safer riding next to

   Yes much safer riding next to metal boxes weighing a ton than risk sliding down a 2ft drop on a closed road. Have Derbyshire Council and Police never heard of Mountain Biking? That’s going to be a massive shock to them when they do.

   Log In or Register to post comments

10. At the risk of exhibiting a

    At the risk of exhibiting a little too much pedantry here’s my take on the Snake Pass signs, as they are shown in the pictures.

    The square sign telling us of the road closure is for information only.  It does not prohibit cyclists from passing and a cyclist doing so has not committed an offence.  If in doubt see the Highway Code.

    In my experience road workers are quite likely to take a different view and will attempt to enforce a closure but they are on shaky legal ground.  And if they try to physically stop you they might be open to assault charges.

    Common sense is a different thing to the fine detail of traffic signage and there are times when you may think discretion is definitely the better part of valour.  I often do.

    Log In or Register to post comments

    • well it depends very much

      well it depends very much what the actual TRO for this road closure says, and since the county council are now saying its been closed for safety reasons to cyclists and walkers as well, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-60663123

      and being staffed 24hrs per day as its been claimed the road has been used for car night races, I suspect you would likely be commiting a non endorseable offence if you now ignored the sign and guidance from the staff on site.

      aiui Snake pass has closed previously due to land slip and preventative maintenance, using a similar TRO closure notice, and cyclists werent permitted access, so this isnt really that out of the ordinary.

      and if people continue to ignore the red sign, and the barriers, Im sure the police will be along with a blue road closed sign and be very happy to take down everyones particulars.

      Log In or Register to post comments

      • Awavey wrote:

        …well it depends very much what the actual TRO for this road closure says…, 

        No it doesn’t.  Because it is unreasonable to expect every road user in the UK to be familiar with every TRO in existence it depends on what the sign says.  Signs matter.  They are carefully designed to fulfil specific purposes and are in no way the vague, wishy-washy objects you suggest.  There is a sign prohibiting cycling, you can look it up.  In this case it was not used therefore there was no meaningful intention to stop cycling.

        ….. Im sure the police will be along with a blue road closed sign and be very happy to take down everyones particulars.

        And if it’s a square sign it does not prohibit cycling regardless of its colour. If there is a uniformed police officer in attendance he can stop you, but the sign does not have that power.

        — Awavey

        Log In or Register to post comments

11. Quote:

    Mail shares ‘top 10 tips’ to save fuel

    “Instead of driving 2 minutes to the shop to buy a copy of the Mail, why not try making up your own spurious ‘stories’ instead?”

    Log In or Register to post comments

12. Road.cc, please summarise the

    Road.cc, please summarise the Mail’s latest petrol rant so that we don’t need to go to their website. Let’s not drive (web) traffic their way.

    Log In or Register to post comments

13. Ned’s faux Pas
    Ned’s faux Pas

    Hats of to Ned for not only recognising he’d slipped up … But for also being public attention to it too.

    It takes a brave man to publish his mistakes in such a public fashion.

    Log In or Register to post comments

    • Hats off to Ned for not only

      Hats off to Ned for not only recognising he’d slipped up …

      Agreed, but I think it has always been the case that cyclists would give way in these circumstances.

      Log In or Register to post comments

14. I’ve never criticized someone
    I’ve never criticized someone for not wearing a helmet, or told someone they should. I have had a torrent of abuse and whataboutism thrown my way when explaining why I chose to wear a helmet. “Finger wagging” works both ways, and that experience certainly showed there are some a*holes in the cycling community.

    Log In or Register to post comments

    • Adam Sutton wrote:

      I’ve never criticized someone for not wearing a helmet, or told someone they should. I have had a torrent of abuse and whataboutism thrown my way when explaining why I chose to wear a helmet. “Finger wagging” works both ways, and that experience certainly showed there are some a*holes in the cycling community.

      — Adam Sutton

      Doesn’t matter what kind of seat, they can have a*holes on top of them…

      On the other hand I’ve never felt that an a*hole on a bike was about to kill me using their bike but give someone a bit of armour and a lot more power and it’s a different story.

      (Full thought – I have had [very young] youths ride at me on bikes and twice had to take evasive action – although that just shows why we don’t let kids have motorbikes / cars, I guess!)

      Log In or Register to post comments

      • chrisonatrike wrote:

        Doesn’t matter what kind of seat, they can have a*holes on top of them…

        On the other hand I’ve never felt that an a*hole on a bike was about to kill me using their bike but give someone a bit of armour and a lot more power and it’s a different story.

        (Full thought – I have had [very young] youths ride at me on bikes and twice had to take evasive action – although that just shows why we don’t let kids have motorbikes / cars, I guess!)

        — chrisonatrike

        Part of the issue that is it always comes back to cars/motorists, when they are not the only hazard when riding.

        Of course a helmet is going to have negligble effect in a more serious RTA, but the fact is I still have a lump on the inside of lip from when I nearly bit through it having fallen on a greasy road and hit my head on the kerb. I’ve seen people share similar or worse instaces, often sharing photos of trashed helmets only to be mocked and derided.

        In reference to your youth comment I have to agree, having watched three on bikes this Sunday mount the pedestrian refuge at the bottom to come past me, and speed through the junction like it wasn’t there. Not a lot of brains in any instance, even less when you consider there is a haulage company there, so a lot of HGV traffic.

         

        Log In or Register to post comments

        •  I’ve seen people share

           I’ve seen people share similar or worse instances, often sharing photos of trashed helmets only to be mocked and derided

          It’s a recurrent theme on here, in which the anti-helmet activists copy anti-vaxxers and erect imaginary barricades of ‘threats to make helmet wearing compulsory, like in Queensland, or whatever’ in order to fight against this infringement of their liberty which not only doesn’t exist, but isn’t even proposed to exist. I wear a helmet all the time when cycling (but, to answer the mocking questions before they’re asked, not in the house or ordinarily when walking, and always when climbing or when I know I’m at risk of stonefall) but have never derided or discouraged any non-family non-wearers and anyone is, in my view, welcome to not wear a helmet

          Log In or Register to post comments

        • Adam Sutton wrote:

          … the fact is I still have a lump on the inside of lip from when I nearly bit through it having fallen on a greasy road and hit my head on the kerb. I’ve seen people share similar or worse instaces, often sharing photos of trashed helmets only to be mocked and derided.

          — Adam Sutton

          You would still have hit your head and bitten your lip, had you been wearing a helmet.

          Log In or Register to post comments

          • You would still have hit your

            You would still have hit your head and bitten your lip, had you been wearing a helmet

            Very likely- it all rather depends on whether you are confident that your brains will be manly enough to shrug off the impact with no deterioration in performance. If so, you may be right.

          • wtjs wrote:

            You would still have hit your head and bitten your lip, had you been wearing a helmet

            Very likely- it all rather depends on whether you are confident that your brains will be manly enough to shrug off the impact with no deterioration in performance. If so, you may be right.

            — wtjs

            I’ll have you know that my brains are incredibly manly 😉 😀

            (that being said, my wife said she’d kill me if I ever got injured by not wearing a helmet, so a helmet it is…).

          • brooksby wrote:

            I’ll have you know that my brains are incredibly manly

            — brooksby

            I’m not sure that’s necessarily anything to boast about.

          • brooksby wrote:

            … the fact is I still have a lump on the inside of lip from when I nearly bit through it having fallen on a greasy road and hit my head on the kerb. I’ve seen people share similar or worse instaces, often sharing photos of trashed helmets only to be mocked and derided.

            — brooksby

            You would still have hit your head and bitten your lip, had you been wearing a helmet.

            — Adam Sutton

            To be clear. I was wearing a helmet. The result was a busted lip and walk back home and call to my boss to say I would be working from home, rather than potentially a trip to A&E with a busted head.

        • Adam Sutton wrote:

          Part of the issue that is it always comes back to cars/motorists, when they are not the only hazard when riding.

          Of course a helmet is going to have negligble effect in a more serious RTA, but the fact is I still have a lump on the inside of lip from when I nearly bit through it having fallen on a greasy road and hit my head on the kerb. I’ve seen people share similar or worse instaces, often sharing photos of trashed helmets only to be mocked and derided.

          — Adam Sutton

          People probably wear a helmet or not then the “reasons” come later.  I used to always wear one, now I rarely do.  I could give reasons but if I’m honest at no point did I sit down and go through all the statistics etc.  I think the strong emotions in these debates are a sign that the reasoning / evidence itself is not the main thing!

          When some cyclists get triggered by “a helmet saved my life” or “just do it” it’s commonly because there are some loud voices shouting “wear helmets!” and often they:

          a) don’t actually care very much about people on bikes – or indeed care for them.  So this appears to be “selective concern”. Just like objections to cycle paths – or even lanes – often include “what about the ambulances / old people / disabled …?” (frequently raised by the able) or “but pollution!” (generally raised by people driving cars).

          b) don’t have a grasp of the limitations of the protection offered or the likely threats.

          I’ve asked some non-cyclists or occasional cyclists about this. As far as they’ve thought about it at all (most haven’t) the common feeling is you should wear a helmet because cars might run into you.  That threat is much more salient than the prosaic “I fell off / over” although the possible protective benefit is likely much less.  We’re over-sensitive to risks from others.  “Stranger danger” if you will.

          Log In or Register to post comments

          • chrisonatrike wrote:

            When some cyclists get triggered by “a helmet saved my life” or “just do it” it’s commonly because there are some loud voices shouting “wear helmets!” and often they:

            a) don’t actually care very much about people on bikes – or indeed care for them.  So this appears to be “selective concern”. Just like objections to cycle paths – or even lanes – often include “what about the ambulances / old people / disabled …?” (frequently raised by the able) or “but pollution!” (generally raised by people driving cars).

            b) don’t have a grasp of the limitations of the protection offered or the likely threats.

            I’ve asked some non-cyclists or occasional cyclists about this. As far as they’ve thought about it at all (most haven’t) the common feeling is you should wear a helmet because cars might run into you.  That threat is much more salient than the prosaic “I fell off / over” although the possible protective benefit is likely much less.  We’re over-sensitive to risks from others.  “Stranger danger” if you will.

            — chrisonatrike

            Not really the case when it is two cyclists sharing their experiences from either side of the debate. At the end of the day the point I was making is one that there is as much finger wagging from those advocating not wearing helmets. 

            WTJS comment was on point. They are often so vehemently opposed that they come across like antivaxxers. Quite honestly it was why I gave up on using twitter to engage with cyclists. Facebook was better as you can find groups of like minded people.

    • Adam Sutton wrote:

      I’ve never criticized someone for not wearing a helmet, or told someone they should. I have had a torrent of abuse and whataboutism thrown my way when explaining why I chose to wear a helmet. “Finger wagging” works both ways, and that experience certainly showed there are some a*holes in the cycling community.

      — Adam Sutton

      That’s interesting (and disappointing). While things can get heated in debates on road.cc, I don’t recall that being the case around here. I’ve never criticised someone for their choice either way.

      IME it’s the helmet zealots – and all sorts of uninformed people who can’t bear to question some assumptions about helmets as PPE – that are very quick to criticise those who want cycling to be normalised by not promoting helmets.

      As someone who wears one for racing and riding on a dedicated circuit or track but not for everyday riding I’ve had plenty of comments and criticism, often from non-cyclists whose opinions I did not solicit.

      Edit: this is the kind of shit I was thinking about.

      the anti-helmet activists copy anti-vaxxers and erect imaginary barricades of ‘threats to make helmet wearing compulsory, like in Queensland, or whatever’ in order to fight against this infringement of their liberty which not only doesn’t exist, but isn’t even proposed to exist.

      — wtjs

      How can anyone have a sensible conversation when incendiary bollocks like this is tossed into the argument?

      Log In or Register to post comments

      • To be fair neither have I on

        To be fair neither have I on here. Twitter is the worse, but then that is twitter! LOL

        Log In or Register to post comments

        • Adam Sutton wrote:

          To be fair neither have I on here. Twitter is the worse, but then that is twitter! LOL

          — Adam Sutton

          Ah, that would explain it. Dear old Twitter…

          Log In or Register to post comments

      • How can anyone have a

        How can anyone have a sensible conversation when incendiary bollocks..

        Easily! By not writing bollocks themselves and describing the writing of others as ‘shit’

        Log In or Register to post comments

        • wtjs wrote:

          How can anyone have a sensible conversation when incendiary bollocks..

          Easily! By not writing bollocks themselves and describing the writing of others as ‘shit’

          — wtjs

          Well, it is a crock of shit. You wrote it, I’m just describing it.

          If you try writing something less shit then perhaps we could have a reasonable discussion. Until then…

          Log In or Register to post comments

15. Slade Road Spaghetti Junction
    Slade Road Spaghetti Junction! Tsk tsk.

    That’s the Gravelly Hill Interchange I’ll have you know.

    Log In or Register to post comments