Cyclist uses new bike lane…almost taken out by two drivers; Dame Sarah Storey wins record-breaking 17th Paralympic gold; La Vuelta ready for ‘Angliru’s evil sister’; Back to school by bike; Paralympic spirit; Funky Festka + more on the live blog

33 thoughts on “Cyclist uses new bike lane…almost taken out by two drivers; Dame Sarah Storey wins record-breaking 17th Paralympic gold; La Vuelta ready for ‘Angliru’s evil sister’; Back to school by bike; Paralympic spirit; Funky Festka + more on the live blog”

1. Motorists expected to give

   Motorists expected to give way to cyclists!! Well I never!! I won’t be doing that until they start paying road tax and get insurance and registrations plates!! Also, it was the noughties when I passed my theory test so I don#t know what double dashed lines mean at the end of a road!! 

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   • AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

     Motorists expected to give way to cyclists!! Well I never!! I won’t be doing that until they start paying road tax and get insurance and registrations plates!! Also, it was the noughties when I passed my theory test so I don#t know what double dashed lines mean at the end of a road!! 

     — AlsoSomniloquism

      

     Theory test? No such thing when I passed my test, they asked 3 questions based on the highway code.

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     • Same here, but as per

       Same here, but as per previous recent news item on here, apparently if you have passed your tests in the noughties, it apparently gives you free reign to ignore valid road signs as how are people expected to know them.

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     •  

        

        Theory test? No such thing when I passed my test, they asked 3 questions based on the highway code.   

       — AlsoSomniloquism

       Not if they were doing it properly.

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2. Re “cyclist using new bike

   Re “cyclist using new bike lane ” –  i am resigned to just cycling defensively, because while i could be in the right, i could also be injured or worse   – – – – –   of course i would love presumed liability for the motorist in Irl and UK,   but i don’t see that happening anytime soon, and am not sure it would make a huge difference in that there would still be potential danger lurking at junctions . I see at least 3-4 mobile phone users while driving / cycling every day in Dublin, and this risky behaviour is not high on the police list of priorities. 

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3. This is a fundamental problem
   This is a fundamental problem with cycle lanes and road junctions. Drivers don’t give way to pedestrians crossing side roads, and don’t expect to give way to cyclists in the same way.

   Obviously there’s an element of driver education required, but getting angry at drivers and/or expecting them to act in a way which is counter-intuitive to them isn’t going to make cyclists any safer.

   Is this a problem which could be solved with better design? I can’t think what it might be, but I’m sure some bright spark has come up with something better.

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   • It is a completely different
     It is a completely different colour to the rest of the road. Although that would require observation.

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   • Is it a new cycle track, and

     Is it a new cycle track, and just a case of local drivers getting used to it?

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   • Getting everyone “educated”

     Getting everyone “educated” when we don’t even require a “refresher” of your driving test – unless you’ve been very naughty – will always be a hurdle. Maybe we should look to examples of public information campaigns on seat belt wearing and not having a few “light ales” before driving?

     As to “better design” do you mean something like the cycle-triggered warning signs in Glasgow?  “Continuous footway” / cycle lane is the better design albeit I’ve mostly seen crap cargo cult versions in the UK.  Oddly enough if you design it right it doesn’t take long for people to understand it. Parked cars aside, this one doesn’t look too bad.  As an example a blog covering the detail on this is here: https://robertweetman.wordpress.com/2018/11/13/design-details-1/

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     • Second one is link of the

       Second one is link of the year for me.

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     • chrisonatrike wrote:

       Getting everyone “educated” when we don’t even require a “refresher” of your driving test – unless you’ve been very naughty – will always be a hurdle. Maybe we should look to examples of public information campaigns on seat belt wearing and not having a few “light ales” before driving?

       As to “better design” do you mean something like the cycle-triggered warning signs in Glasgow?  “Continuous footway” / cycle lane is the better design albeit I’ve mostly seen crap cargo cult versions in the UK.  Oddly enough if you design it right it doesn’t take long for people to understand it. Parked cars aside, this one doesn’t look too bad.  As an example a blog covering the detail on this is here: https://robertweetman.wordpress.com/2018/11/13/design-details-1/

       — chrisonatrike

       There’s only one point that everyone needs to be corrected on. From a young age children are taught that road are dangerous – hardly surprising that when they eventually get a driving license, a large number (myself included) start driving dangerously. Roads are not dangerous – drivers are dangerous, unless or until they consciously choose not to be.

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       • > Roads are not dangerous –

         > Roads are not dangerous – drivers are dangerous, unless or until they consciously choose not to be.

         Sounds like “Guns don’t kill people, people do”? Railways aren’t dangerous but we’re happy to pay for engineering to separate trains from trains and people from the track. I’d love it if everyone recited “My main job is to do no harm” when climbing into / onto their transport. However while we’re waiting for a better world I’m up for a bit of ‘elf and safety to help us – along the lines of the hierarchy of controls.

         Meantime I’m off to have a word with myself about nearly riding into a fox while looking at another fox…

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         • chrisonatrike wrote:

           > Roads are not dangerous – drivers are dangerous, unless or until they consciously choose not to be.

           Sounds like “Guns don’t kill people, people do”? ……

           — chrisonatrike

           Not really, roads really aren’t dangerous (unless you fall off your bike), until that is some twunt in a car turns up…

           People aren’t inherently dangerous. Unless you give them a gun. Or a car….

           By the by, was the first fox the jealous sort?

         • My interest was purely

           My interest was purely zoological…

4. Easy solution, make them stop

   Easy solution, make them stop lines rather than give way lines. 

   As a driver I sympathise because this is just shit road design. As a cyclist, a lane like that would have me taking my chances on the carriageway, it’s far safer

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   • Easy solution, make them stop

     Easy solution, make them stop lines rather than give way lines. 

     — kil0ran

     See first post from AS.

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   • Consistently polls show that

     Consistently polls show that 60-70% of ppl find the roads too dangerous to cycle on – so riding on the road may well be a solution for some, but not for many.

     I don’t have a problem with the design. A 2 way cycle track can be a perfectly good solution where circs mean 1 way tracks either side are impractical.

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5. I love these early autumn

   I love these early autumn Vuelta stages on the north coast. It’s like Yorkshire or Cornwall on steroids. Mist, murk, sheep, all in a landscape that would do decent duty as a GoT set.

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6. Maybe the camera processing
   Maybe the camera processing makes the riding look speedier than it is, certainly GoPros do have that ability to make it look more action cam footage.

   But I dont think I’d have been riding with such purpose along a cycle lane like that.

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   • Maybe the camera processing

     Maybe the camera processing makes the riding look speedier than it is, certainly GoPros do have that ability to make it look more action cam footage

     No, it the low bike-mounted camera position that makes the cyclist look like he’s doing 50. Helmet mounting gives a truer representation

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7. I wont apologise for the Ford

   I wont apologise for the Ford driver but I do wonder how clear their line of sight was with all those parking bays a way before the junction.

   Not the greatest bike lane tbh but an improvement on nothing.

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8. The problem is motorists will

   The problem is motorists will treat the give way lines like the give way lines on the entrance to a mini roundabout….. give way to the cyclists on the crossing in front of them not give way to cyclists approaching the crossing.

   You just need to watch any dashcam videos involving mini roundabouts…. it is virtually always someone approaching their give way line at speed that tries to race through the roundabout and blasts their horn at the car that was already on the roundabout in front of them

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9. The cycle lane in the video
   The cycle lane in the video is a great example of what not to do in designing infrastructure and the opposite of the “safety differently” approach in the article on here yesterday. Blaming people doesn’t help, we all make mistakes, the idea is that the system should be designed so that mistakes don’t have dire consequences. For what it is worth I wouldn’t use that bike lane and would accept riding at lower speed of the other traffic to keep safe.

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   • We spend a lot of time

     We spend a lot of time criticising crap infra, and rightly so – but the video doesn’t show a narrow painted cycle lane, it’s a cycle track of a decent standard.

     √ Wide enough

     √ Clearly marked (different colour)

     √ Some physical protection (wands and buffer)

     √ Priority over turning traffic

     √ Appropriate design behind parked cars, not outside them

     I appreciate that you genuinely feel you’d be safer riding in traffic, but the only way to persuade more people to get about by bike is to provide segregated infrastructure.

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   • I wouldn’t use that bike lane

     I wouldn’t use that bike lane

     Well, I certainly would! You just have to accept that at each intersection drivers pay as much attention to the rules about priority (the game is stone-paper-scissors, in which cyclists are only allowed to choose paper and drivers are always scissors) as UK drivers will pay to the new joke rules about priority in the impending Highway Code edition, which police officers are presently laughing themselves sick over and which they have no intention of even acknowledging.

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   • I agree that I’m more

     I agree that I’m more cautious on 2-way cycle paths in general but there are some advantages for both planners and cyclists. Until there are no motorvehicles or they’re forced underground / onto special crap “car paths” that is.  David Hembrow shows how it’s done (video from his blog).

     In the UK wherever things change (“change?!”) there will probably always be an unhappy period of moaning / cursing / unpleasantness inflicted on the innocent. And little apart from removal from the motor pool will help those people who can’t see cyclists in front of them in daylight.

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10. Quote:

    Drivers don’t give way to pedestrians crossing side roads, and don’t expect to give way to cyclists in the same way.

    “Obviously there’s an element of driver education required, but getting angry at drivers and/or expecting them to act in a way which is counter-intuitive to them isn’t going to make cyclists any safer. Is this a problem which could be solved with better design?

    — AidanR

    The clue is in “pedestrians crossing the road”. It needs to be reconfigured as “vehicles crossing the pavement”. So pavements should not give way to roadway across the mouth of side streets. Instead the pavement should be continuous, right across the mouth of the side street. Visually this tells it as it should be, peds have priority over cars. And the change in levels will create a speed hump to slow vehicles down in any case.

    I’ve seen such an arrangement, created “accidentally” where a cul-de-sac backs onto the main road across a pavement. For some reason motorists are allowed to drive out of the end of the cul-de-sac over the pavement, but they do so very tentatively as they are clearly crossing over a pavement.

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    • Sriracha wrote:

      The clue is in “pedestrians crossing the road”. It needs to be reconfigured as “vehicles crossing the pavement”. So the pavements should not give way to roadway at the mouth of side streets. Instead the pavement should be continuous, right across the mouth of the side street. Visually this tells it as it should be, peds have priority over cars. And the change in levels will create a speed hump to slow vehicles down in any case. I’ve seen such an arrangement, created “accidentally” where a cul-de-sac backs onto the main road across a pavement. For some reason motorists are allowed to drive out of the end of the cul-de-sac over the pavement, but they do so very tentatively as they are clearly crossing over a pavement.

      — Sriracha

      You’ve hit the nail on the head right there.

      This country needs a radically different approach and attitude towards road safety. At the moment, everything is approached from the “car is king” school of thought and so far it’s not working out very well as most drivers sit in queues and get stressed out just going from A to B.

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    • Sriracha wrote:

      The clue is in “pedestrians crossing the road”. It needs to be reconfigured as “vehicles crossing the pavement”. So pavements should not give way to roadway across the mouth of side streets. Instead the pavement should be continuous, right across the mouth of the side street. Visually this tells it as it should be, peds have priority over cars. And the change in levels will create a speed hump to slow vehicles down in any case.

      — Sriracha

      Absolutely. The new Highway code states:

      “Rule H2: Rule for drivers, motorcyclists, horse riders and cyclists:

      At a junction you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning”

      It would be good to embed this in the architecture of the highway, as you suggest.

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      • I’ve noticed if I’m
        I’ve noticed if I’m approaching a nearby zebra crossing cars tend to stop even before I would classify myself as waiting. This does not apply if I’m crossing a side road despite the rules being the same. Too many drivers appear to have a received wisdom of the rules rather than actually following the written rules.

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    • This. Very much this.
      This. Very much this.
      I remember the first time I drove in Poland, and on entering a small town was completely flummoxed by the decision to place a zebra crossing on the entrance and exits of the roundabouts. Vehicles were literally forced to stop on the roundabout. This seemed like a ridiculous design decision.
      However, within about half an hour it clicked. It is an act of social engineering, the people have priority, and vehicles shall wait.
      As a result, when I cycle there it is marvelous compared with here at home.
      Given the complete lack of will to deal with poor driving in the UK, using “direct” methods, then it can’t hurt to perhaps try more subtle ways to influence behaviour

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11. Hospital calls for action to

    Hospital calls for action to stop cyclist deaths at notorious London junction

    Colleagues of Dr Marta Krawiec, who was killed while riding to work, say urgent safety work is needed

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/02/hospital-calls-for-action-to-stop-cyclist-deaths-at-notorious-london-junction

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    • A section from the letter

      A section from the letter that highlights our blindness to road deaths:

      After the terrorist atrocities on Westminster Bridge and London Bridge, safety barriers were erected overnight. Yet no such precautionary action has been taken when eight people have been killed over a period of time at one traffic system.

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