Cyclists moving faster than 12mph could be fined in Wandsworth after the council’s Parks Police began using a speed gun normally used for vehicles.
London Centric first reported that cyclists breaking the speed limit in Tooting Bec Common were being issued £50 fines following “complaints from dog walkers that people had been going too quickly”.
The Friends of Tooting Common wrote an open letter to Wandsworth Council Cainet member for the Environment Paul White calling for both “increased police enforcement” and the imposition of “physical barriers or other effective constraints”.
The group told White that reisdents had reported a “particular problem with delivery riders” and warned the council that unless increased speed checks were carried out barriers built to slow down cyclists, a “serious accident or fatality is waiting to happen”.
The letter added that “we are, of course, not anti-cycling. There are strong environmental and health reasons to encourage cycling, and many of our members are cyclists.
“Among other things we are concerned that a cyclist could well be seriously injured in a collision with a speeding cyclist. Traffic calming measures do not deter considerate cyclists – on the contrary.”
However, a council spokesperson has told road.cc that Fixed Penalty Notices (FPNs) were only being issued “as a last resort for dangerous speeding and unauthorised cycling.”
As, cycling’s popularity has grown, scrutiny has risen over the conduct of cyclists in the capital. As a non-motorised mode of transport, cyclists are not ordinarily subject to most speed limits.
However, Royal Parks advise all cyclists to observe the vehicular speed limit on its grounds, varying between 5 and 20mph. The Square Mile of the City of London has also imposed a 20mph speed limit.
> Cycling group and Royal Parks disagree over cyclist speed limit advice in Richmond Park
The 12mph speed limit in Tooting Bec Common, which can also to apply to other areas such as Finsbury Park and Wandsworth Common, has come under particular attention for it’s relatively low limit by comparison.
The limit reportedly owes its existence to bylaws created by the Greater London Council that governed London until 1986. The limit means that e-bikes, which legally have a motor that goes up to 15.5mph, could also be fined.
A separate but related issue concerns electric motorbikes that are often misidentified as e-bikes. E-bikes are also subject to illegal modification that increases the motor’s speed beyond legal limits.
The topic of speeding cyclists has also been the subject of misinformation. Last year, the Daily Telegraph were found to have breached the Editors’ Code of the the Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO) after running a headline titled “52mph in a 20mph zone – Lycra lout cyclists are creating death traps all over Britain”
The action of Wandsworth’s Parks Police follows what the council told road.cc were “too many park users [that] told us they feel unsafe around speeding delivery riders, illegally modified e-bikes and dangerous or inconsiderate cyclists”, adding that “this is about responding to residents’ concerns and keeping our parks, commons and open spaces safe for everyone.”
The council spokesperson also told us that “our Parks Police are taking action to protect many people, including considerate cyclists, who use our parks responsibly”.
“Officers follow an educational-first approach, offering information and advice about the importance of slowing down and using designated cycling routes, and only as a last resort will they issue Fixed Penalty Notices for dangerous speeding and unauthorised cycling,” the spokesperson said.
49 thoughts on “Speed gun deployed to fine cyclists riding faster than 12mph in London park”
I’d like to see where it says
I’d like to see where it says in the certification for these speed guns that its been explicitly tested on bikes. 50/50 chance it hasnt been.
Also calibration for speeds
Also calibration for speeds below 20mph…
(Just like car speedo’s officially have to be below actual speed, but within 10% for speeds above 20mph; NO requirement for accuracy below that – a car speedo could literally start at 20mph and just about be legal…)
Three points:
Three points:
-legally, surely with the lack of calibration of cameras for cyclists, and the lack of a speedometer on bikes, this is simply not going to fly. Any appeal will be successful
-will they also do this for runners? The fastest park run runners will be doing more than 12mph
-I hope no one has their greyhound off a leash. They do way more than 12mph.
Assuming these are the
Assuming these are the correct byelaws:
I don’t see that the lack of (mandatory) speedometers is necessarily prohibitive to successful prosecution. It’s an oft-quoted argument as to why it may be unfair to set speed limits for bicycles, but if such an unfair law has been passed (which it apparently has), then it is still the law. My analogy is that there is no requirement to carry around a breathalyser to check that you are under the blood alcohol limit, and yet that is still governed by a specific numeric value. I believe certain classic motor vehicles are also not required to have speedos, but are still required to comply with speed limits.
The byelaws state you must not “drive any vehicle, bicycle or tricycle or ride any animal” at >12mph. So runners and greyhounds are irrelevant (unless you’re riding the greyhound). Again, you may feel this is unfair, but the law, as they say, is an ass.
The only point which I think has merit would be the (lack of) calibration of the speed guns for use on cyclists. As noted in another comment, a cyclist/cycle has lots of moving parts that do have a tendency to confuse speed guns e.g. the instantaneous velocity of the top of the wheel is necessarily twice the speed of the bike as a whole.
OnYerBike wrote:
But is it allowed to do more than 12mph, ridden or unridden?
The list of “Keystone Kops”
The list of “Keystone Kops” UK police forces is somewhat boggling.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/list/independent_police
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_agencies_in_the_United_Kingdom,_Crown_Dependencies_and_British_Overseas_Territories#Parks_police
According to a police officer
According to a police officer friend of mine Wandsworth Parks Police is well known as an outfit for wannabes who can’t get into the Met. My occasional encounters with them in Battersea Park have tended to confirm this – I had to have one of them put on disciplinary and formally reprimanded for accusing me of swearing at a dog walker (video proved I didn’t) and generally displaying a pathetic “Come on if you think you’re hard enough” attitude.
We’re the WPP son. And we
We’re the WPP son. And we haven’t had any dinner.
wannabes who can’t get into
wannabes who can’t get into the Met.
Wot!? Not criminal or bent enough to fit in with Carrick and Couzens and all their police pals who tried to shield them?
Rendel Harris wrote:
Being a bit of a fan of vids of people filming the police and later taking action against them for exceeding their powers, you have to wonder how many thousands of convictions are there where the police make up evidence or were just plain wrong.
Absolutely right I’m afraid,
Absolutely right I’m afraid, in the instance I mentioned it’s a certainty no action would’ve been taken if I hadn’t had the camera running. My advice to anyone who has a hostile interaction with the police is firstly to ask them if their body cameras are switched on, and if not why not, and then to inform them that you will be exercising your right to record your encounter, whether with your phone or bikecam. That isn’t being anti–police, if they are doing nothing wrong it’s good for their own protection against false allegations as well. It’s amazing how much calmer and more reasonable they get once they’re informed they are being filmed!
“complaints from dog walkers
“complaints from dog walkers that people had been going too quickly”
I bet all the dog walkers in question had their dogs on short leads or proper control, not wandering around the path randomly or with an extendable lead across the path. I bet that’s the case.
I’ll happily give way to pedestrians, but their dogs are their responsibility.
No chance those dogs are on
No chance those dogs are on leads. Many dog walkers plod along at about 2mph. Anybody going over 5mph is going to seem fast to them.
GMBasix wrote:
While I agree with the majority of this comment… Unleashed dogs on bridleways are quite a problem in this country, and while the walker is apologetic most of the time that their dog is trying to bite you they never do anything to fix the behaviour for the next cyclist that comes along… I really hope this is hyperbole and you’re not actually riding into these dogs.
thrawed wrote:
It’s not hyperbole, but to save you a re-read, at no point have I said that I ride (or recommend riding) into dogs. I’ve just said that the conduct and safety of a dog belongs to its owner, not an oncoming cyclist (beyond the latter’s more general responsibility for due care).
In the unstated but reasonable heirarchy of things, I rank more highly than a dog. On a bicycle, I give way to pedestrians; dogs, while a “reasonable accompaniment”, are subject to a requirement for the owner to keep their dog under control. In other regards, if the situation excalates, I refer to Richard Ballantine.
I’ve never intentionally run
I’ve never intentionally run into a dog, but I have come very close to doing it when they’ve run under my front wheel suddenly. I have, however, intentionally kicked dogs that were aggressive and near my feet.
I love dogs, btw.
Slartibartfast wrote:
I’m always really cautious when cycling around dogs in the park, but this week I had a close call. As I was approaching fown the path, a dog owner threw a ball with one of those long-arm throwers. This should have meant the dog was sent safely off into a field. However, the owner managed to fire the ball straight at a tree, sending the ball and chasing labrador immediately back across the path in front of my wheel
That suggests the answer
That suggests the answer though – simply mount a tennis ball cannon on the bars – you can then pre-emptively send dogs away from your path.
If that fails just shoot them with it!
Will those dog owners who
Will those dog owners who fail to keep their dogs under control in a public place be fined, like the cyclists are?
Depending on the
Depending on the circumstances, it can mean prison. But I think we both know the real, everyday answer to your question.
Some cyclists can be just as
Some cyclists can be just as self entitled as drivers. Its a shared space, just slow down.
I won’t use shared paths 99%
I won’t use shared paths 99% of the time and the fact that dog walkers use them is one major reason. As a youngster, under the age of 10, I was bitten twice by out of control or unsupervised dogs while riding a bike in public places. Neither time was I doing more than 12 mph, one time I was only just out of needing stabilisers on my bike in the local park! Neither time were the owners one bit concerned nor were the council or the police interested in taking any action. It took me 40+ years to get over the massive phobia of dogs these attacks generated. Being self entitled comes in all walks of life and all modes of transport, drivers, cyclists, pedestrians and dog walkers included.
Robert Hardy wrote:
There’s no legal requirement for the cyclist to slow down in most such scenarios. There IS a legal requirement to keep your spoiled poo-monster on a leash in public places. I’ve never seen a cyclist hit a dog, but I see dozens of poo-monsters off leashes on paths every day with their gormless, witless, self-absorbed keepers trailing along 20 metres behind, noses in phones. Will I banjo slow down.
Yodhrin wrote:
To be fair, the legal requirement is for the dog to be under control rather than necessarily on a leash (and those extendible leashes are likely more dangerous than a dog). Well trained dogs with good recall can be under control if the owner is watching out, though I daresay that can be quite rare.
Pretty sure the dogs will be
Pretty sure the dogs will be doing over 12mph.
Quote:
I doubt whether many ebikes have an income, so how are they going to pay?
Please may I see your
Please may I see your calibration cetificate for your speed gun, which actually are far less accurate at speeds under 30kph?? due to the fact that they can give spurious readings to anything moveing at 30kph or less such as your wheels rotation or how fast your legs are travelling. they are not designedfor such slow speeds so cannot give accurate readings. Hence why even at 70mph you get the 10% which accouts +/- accuracy of the camera as well as speedo inaccurcies.
Any challenge to the fine in court would probably win on this alone.
Aye exactly. Polis will use
Aye exactly. Polis will use any excuse under the sun to claim they can’t use evidence provided by cyclists against drivers including inventing utterly spurious nonsense about your cameras with no basis in fact or law, but suddenly they can issue FPNs to cyclists on the basis of speed guns that barely do the job they claim to on the huge cars they’re ostensibly designed for? Jog on Mr Plod.
Polis will use any excuse
Polis will use any excuse under the sun to claim they can’t use evidence provided by cyclists against drivers including inventing utterly spurious nonsense about your cameras with no basis in fact or law
Yes. The story they made up to excuse abandoning the court case over these two offences by the same driver in the same place 2 days apart was that, suddenly out of nowhere, it was absolutely necessary to have rear facing video because they couldn’t prove where the driver had crossed the unbroken white line. This was 18 months after the offences (Covid delays) when a court date had been set. Of course, they knew all this time there was no rear video, but they’d just thought up the dodge where they invented a new law in which the offence is only activated if you cross the unbroken white line from L to R- if you’re already in the right lane when the UWL begins, it’s not an offence! Even the police are not actually that thick, they just make unbelievably stupid stuff up to further their aim of doing nothing.
And runners? Some of these
And runners? Some of these will exceed 12mph, especially if they are doing interval training.
Some of us go a lot faster
Some of us go a lot faster than 12 mph on the long downhill start when doing the Park Run in Richmond Park.
“Friends of Tooting Common.
“Friends of Tooting Common. The volunteer group recently published an open letter saying there is a “particular problem with delivery riders” and urged the council to increase speed checks and build barriers to slow down cyclists, warning the status quo is a “serious accident or fatality waiting to happen”.” (My emphasis.)
Bicycles have been around for decades and cyclists have almost certainly been doing over 12mph for a long time.
I can average 12mph when commuting on my pedal bike.
That average is including stopping at red lights, being slowed down by queues of drivers etc.
So my cruising speed would be at least 15mph.
And thats me not being very fit and on a second hand £50 bike that isn’t designed for speed.
How many KSIs have their been?
And assuming this isn’t a permanent thing, it might be worth asking the council to provide the KSI figures before, during and after this is done to show it was worth spending taxpayer money doing this to cyclists rather than drivers.
“Tooting Common” – it’s good
“Friends of Tooting Common” – perhaps they have very dated attitudes?
It’s good to see the dead pharaoh still has fans – never seen that transliteration before though!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutankhamun
Are they also friends of that
Are they also friends of that Tooting Khan Man (aka Sadik) I wonder?
Road.cc wrote:
then deal with this problem and not other cyclists. And if it is found that delivery riders tend to be using electric motorbikes illegally then confiscate the motorbikes. Persecuting cyclists when the problem is actually stealth-motorcyclists isn’t exactly in line with the borough’s active travel strategy.
A bicycle is not a motorised
A bicycle is not a motorised vehicle and so not subject to a speedlimit. How do they propose to get around that if someone takes it to court? If this is a public highway, no limit applies to non-engine driven (though I assume that means an eBike IS subject as it’s motorised…), if it’s some hookey half arsed limit applied by a local yokel, not sure where that stands in law.
According to the management
According to the management and maintenance plan:
* https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/media/4480/2015_09_08_tooting_common_management_and_maintenance_plan.pdf
“11.4 The primary reason to visit Tooting Common is to walk, exercise and to relax.”
—
According to the Friends’ open letter:
* http://www.friendsoftootingcommon.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/FOTC-email-to-Councillor-Paul-White-on-dangerous-cycling.pdf
“There is a particular problem with delivery riders on e-bikes or e-scooters.”
—
Seemingly: The commons are for leisure activities, not for commercial activities , such as delivering things whilst riding EAPCs.
Answer appears to be to ban delivery riders on EAPCs from using the shared paths.
—
Generally I like dogs but my relaxation efforts can be vexed when someone empties theirs in the immediate vicinity:
“complaints from dog walkers that people had been going too quickly”
newbankgyratory wrote:
Not sure I’ve ever seen any of those anyway – the vast majority use (in law) motorbikes.
12 mph is a quite reasonable
12 mph is a quite reasonable limit in a shared space with pedestrians. A typical speed for most cyclists and one that gives good time for an emergency brake or evasive swerve.
Not if a loose dog runs into
Not if a loose dog runs into your front wheel – I stand still and wait for it to go.
What if the dogs running at
What if the dogs running at 13mph? does the owner get a fine or the dog?
I don’t think there are any
I don’t think there are any Type Approved speed guns for use with bikes. Standard speed guns can give false results if pointed at a moving bike, the bike is moving at riding speed, the bottom of the wheels are stationary as they are in contact with the ground, and the top of the wheel is moving at twice the speed of the bike.
Absolutely agree. It is
Absolutely agree. It is extremely unlikely these devices have been approved by the Home Office to be used on pedal cycles. Also, are cyclists required by law to comply with a speed limit? If so, what DoT approved devices are cyclists required to have to know if they are breaking the speed limit? This is all bolx and any cyclist fined for speeding should contest this.
If I buy a pre-1937 car with
If I buy a pre-1937 car with no speedometer, can I go any speed I want? I know old cars aren’t very fast, but even 1920s cars can break 60 MPH.
Depends how high you drop
Depends how high you drop them from.
(Ageing Top Grear presenters trigger warning)
Cyclists and motorists are
Cyclists and motorists are expected to proceed with due care and attention, and consider the conditions of the road. Even if you proceed at the legal speed limit, this may still be considered excess speed for the conditions, e.g. where there are children in the vicinity of an ice-cream van.
They certainly will not be
They certainly will not be type approved for as slow as 12mph.
What speed do these dog
What speed do these dog walkers’ mobile shit-machines run at?
How fast do these dog walkers
How fast do these dog walkers’ dogs go? And why is it always about dog walkers, who let their animal foul the parks?