road.cc live blog – Mandatory helmets and hi-vis rumour keeps on spreading + BMW e-bikes in the sky… in China
…Maybe + L-plate school cyclists update, Pro team sells bus (well it is Black Friday) and LOTS more
Fri, Nov 24, 2017 15:30
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Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn’t especially like cake.
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eburtthebike 7 hours ago
If the police are overwhelmed with evidence showing dangerous driving, then that shows that the dangerous driving is endemic: the graveyards and hospitals are full of the victims. If it is endemic, then one of two things must be true, or both: the detection rate is not high enough, and/or the punishment is not sufficient to deter. So in this case, we have the victims providing the evidence, in most cases all the officers need to do is view that evidence. If the officers don't have time, then the process should be automated, possibly by AI. If the driver disputes it, then a real person could view it, but if they consider the driving to be dangerous, the driver should pay for the officer's time. Then we have the lack of punishment, or punishment which doesn't fit the crime, because it does not deter people from offending. The current system of points and fines is clearly not working, and something rather more effective has to be done, like confiscating the car for instance. ".......the Chief Inspector recommended that road users use a rear-facing camera and evidence their own speed at the time of the overtake." I fail to see what the speed of the vehicle being overtaken has to do with the overtaking vehicle passing too closely. Would it be ok if you were doing 5mph, or 25mph? Baffling.
belugabob 8 hours ago
In principal, driverless cars have the potential to be much safer than human drivers, by virtue of the fact that they should be intent on following the rules of the road, nor driving whilst drunk/drugged, never be tired, frustrated, irrational etc, etc. Another advantage is that mistakes can be corrected and rolled out across the entire fleet (try that with humans. Add to that the resulting reduction in car ownership, increased car sharing, and the sheer amount of street space given over to parked cars will plummet. The key factor, however, is how much of those principles the owning companies are prepared to commit to. (Altruism isn't their strong point)
Xenophon2 10 hours ago
I'm going to take a close look at some of the lights mentioned. For reference: I extensively used the following: - Nightrider lumina (don't recall the exact model): horrible temperature control and after 18 months it bricked up on me and they refused to honour the warranty, will never buy anything from them ever again; - Lezyne 1600 XXL, two issues, firstly the strap that attached it to the handlebar never kept in place really well over rough terrain. Secondly: a cop stopped me and although -to me riding the bike- it appeared well adjusted, he claimed I was blinding oncoming traffic. He actually held the bike so I could check for myself from inside his car and he was simply right: the light level on the ground was ok but indeed, I was blinding oncoming traffic. That's a hard no, it had to go even though he didn't fine me. I don't want to annoy/be a risk to other road users; - Then the Lupine: solid as a rock, mounted on a GoPro mount, USB-C charging, StVZO compliant...but alas not enough oomph considering terrain and desired speed; Thinking back, it somehow seems like a light I had on my bike back when I was riding long distance events (Audax, crazy distances but lower average speeds) might have been ideal, that was a Son Edelux and it ran on a Son hub dynamo. But I don't want to install a dynamo and again, lower speeds.
chrisonabike 11 hours ago
Well that all blew up quickly! A pause to savour: "cyclists have a dislike for linguistic accuracy and authentic meaning." Apparently it's something to do with the cyclic muscle movements - ah, no, that would affect runners and rowers also. Circular motion of the limbs?
stulemanski 11 hours ago
@mattw Yeah, and Oxford Street will be full of unicorns and rainbows by then as well. 🤣
mattw 12 hours ago
@stulemanski Actually I think they do, as long as there is good behaviour. Complete cycle bans are vanishingly rare in the Netherlands, which is the best comparison. In 10-20 years time there will be a mobility track, and there will be no real problems.
mattw 12 hours ago
@Rendel Harris That assumes training, expertise, and the time to do a proper job including full consultation. This does not happen, and then rapid assumptions are made based on "me". That also happens with cycling groups who campaign for something and completely ignore eg tricycles or other varieties of vehicle, in favour of standard cycles. Both lived experience and professional experience are essential. This week I have been looking at a brand new £50k 3m-wide path upgrade in my local Green Flag Park, where the Council have spent perhaps £3k installing a 3 ply chicane with 1.5m gaps and 1.5m spacing between barriers at one end of it. The path also includes a 1-in-9 30m long hill. I have since been talking to a lady who is a wheelchair user and has a fully-trained assistance dog which walks alongside, who is thereby prevented from entering the park she pays for with her Council Tax. Those dimensions are unusable for most small mobility scooters, never mind other mobility aid users, and are flat out unlawful, and not in accordance with several sets of Government Guidelines. Yet when I complain I expect to be stonewalled to the door of the Court in the hope that I will get exhausted and go away. At the door of the Court they usually capitulate, and will have spent 7-10k on legal letters and compensation and doing what they should have done at the start. That £3k could have been spent sorting out perhaps 10 other anti-disabled barriers around our Green Flag Parks. Every complaint so far I have made has been met with "Does Not Meet Threshold for Action".
mattw 12 hours ago
@flowboy I'm not sure what your point is, FB. Unforfunately, in a world of insufficient resources and gutted Councils with no expertise (for example the near-vanishing of Accessibility Officers) due mainly to available resources being halved since 2010, the only things that will get a response are likely to be details supported by a credible threat of legal action. That's how it is. Even then they often rely on obfuscation via complaints procedures that can take 12 months and have no teeth.
mattw 12 hours ago
@flowboy I'm not sure what your point is, FB. Unforfunately, in a world of insufficient resources and gutted Councils with no expertise (for example the near-vanishing of Accessibility Officers) due mainly to available resources being halved since 2010, the only things that will get a response are likely to be details supported by a credible threat of legal action. That's how it is. Even then they often rely on obfuscation via complaints procedures that can take 12 months and have no teeth.
No Reply 14 hours ago
@Rendel Harris I have recently come out. I have been called a lot worse. Sticks and stones. So are you saying I cannot call people like myself names? If a call myself and people like me, a ‘homophobic slur’ are you going to get the nasty words police on to me? If you are straight, then your opinions and fake anger mean nothing. Unless you are gay, you are clueless. So stop getting all worked up about a name. I can cope with it. If you can’t, it’s on you.
17 thoughts on “road.cc live blog – Mandatory helmets and hi-vis rumour keeps on spreading + BMW e-bikes in the sky… in China”
Times’ front cover should be
Times’ front cover should be withdrawn. Reporter likely wasn’t at conference where subject was raised. I was, and so was Mark Hookham of the Sunday Times, who asked the helmet/hi-vis question.
Full transcipt is available, as is audio.
See: http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/the-times-leads-with-false-story-about-helmet-compulsion/022270
If this is the sort of misleading reporting that politicians have to deal with on a daily basis I feel very sorry for politicians, and rather ashamed at fellow journalists who’ve got this story so about-face it’s shocking.
Hm, could a newspaper with an
Hm, could a newspaper with an ageing tory readership possibly have an agenda?
Daily Wail running it now…
Daily Wail running it now… apparently due to be introduced in the new year!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5113697/Cyclists-wear-helmets-high-viz-vests.html
edit to add DONT read the comments below their article. You will dispair.
Zero sympathy for Norman: he
Zero sympathy for Norman: he needs to get a straighter bat and a better grasp of his subject matter.
@CygnusX1 – I like your
@CygnusX1 – I like your thinking.
@Carlton,
@Carlton,
Your article makes for interesting reading – particularly the last paragraph with the various headlines used by various rags. The Daily Mail’s is a SHOCKER of a headline, but what we’ve come to expect. Click bait indeed.
Let’s hope none of the anti-cycling lobbies realise they need to submit as a suggestion to the review (maybe these headlines may actually help – they may think its already on the table).
Shhh! don’t tell!
I’ll agree to helmets and hi
I’ll agree to helmets and hi-viz if, and only if, the Daily Mail readership agrees to wear LGBT-rainbow-coloured burqas whenever they leave the house .
ConcordeCX wrote:
Or, if all dark/dull coloured cars vehicles have to be painted in high viz (white vans included as they blend into the sky if it’s a bright day).
ConcordeCX wrote:
Just make them wear LGBT colours with reflective strips so they will be visible while walking and driving should be sufficient.
The Daily Mails is a horrible
The Daily Mails is a horrible rag posing as a newspaper. It’s be better suited as toilet paper except that the ink leaves marks.
I mean, compulsory helmet use has had such a beneficial effect in reducing deaths and injuries for cyclsits in NZ hasn’t it?
OldRidgeback wrote:
If the goal is actually to reduce KSI rates then the answer is indeed clesr. If the true goal is to reduce cycling rates then the answer is also clear.
Nice Helmet Row jpeg but I
Nice Helmet Row jpeg but I think mine’s better (had to check it was a real street on Google Maps, and saw this):
Those old CRT TVs in the bus,
Those old CRT TVs in the bus, just lol, what is this back to the future to the olden days!
I always figured if this
I always figured if this country made helmets compulsory I’d move aboard. Not because it’d be such a terrible imposition in itself, but because it would be a sign that pandering to irrational groupthink had reached a level that threatened individual freedom. However, that was before legions of idiotic gargoyles, who’d never previously given enough of a toss about anything to schlep to the polling station, decided their lives would seem less pathetic if they voted to strip the rest of us of our right to live in Europe. Being stuck on this island with that bunch is one thing, having to do so while forced to dress like a Belisha beacon, so drivers can feel like they’ve taken back control of the roads as well as the country, is another.
handlebarcam wrote:
Thats it: it’s not wearing a helmet that’s so objectionable, if you decide to wear one, but the *compulsion* to wear a helmet. No choice in the matter, no attempts to make the road environment better or safer; just make everyone wear a styrofoam hat because that will protect them from everything ever (honest!). Like rear lights in the 30s, make the cyclists dress in hi-viz so it is *their* problem and not the problem of the motorist who should be looking where they’re going. Hell, I could go further and invoke Godwins in this, but I shall restrain myself 😉
handlebarcam wrote:
I hear you. I’d be tempted to move overseas, too.
I think the hills of Afghanistan might be better suited to your level of mindless prejudice of people you’ve never met, based on what box they ticked in a democratic process.
I didn’t think the Daily Mail
I didn’t think the Daily Mail piece was that bad. Presumably the improvement to American football players’ safety from helmets was in relation to…playing American football? that kind-of makes sense in a bears/woods kind of way.
BY LAW – like mobile phones while driving, MOTS, speed limits, not getting the red mist* and just generally looking where you’re going – you mean those laws, right? I could just about, just about suffer new laws about cycling if the other lot played fair and did their bit.
The helmet law thing if it came to pass for adults, would surely mean pretty much the end of the city cycle hire schemes? Acquiring still more armour plating for road users (of all types) is NOT the answer!
This is the government that flunked the whole healthy eating thing a few months back – maybe that’s because of food industry pressures, maybe because they don’t see themselves as regulating people’s lives in this much detail?
There is a curtain-twitching segment of our society that believes that if you’re out late/after dark and a bad thing happens to you then, that it’s your own silly fault. It probably isn’t a good idea to leave your laptop on view, it probably is a good idea to lock your house when you go out, in line with police advice. But let’s not forget that the factors that lead us this way are a bad thing and in an ideal world it wouldn’t be like that. I think it’s in those terms that non cycling people see hi viz and helmets.
i don’t think anyone (usual exceptions: Audi, etc) actively hates cyclists and cycling – we’re more of an irritation, an annoyance, shaving vital nanoseconds off important car journeys, that somehow I remember used to be quicker (yes – less cars).
It’s a slightly strange thing to be defending the ongoing use of mixed use highways (against the “push” referred to in the Mail story, what with us cyclists being so darned numerous and all) but that’s what we now need to do.
When this wretched review was announced, many of us had a good rant about it – now we need to get our shit together and present our arguments around the many benefits and freedoms of cycling. We should expect something to replace “furious riding”, I think, but let’s make sure it’s proportionate/ reasonable and also keep other road users’ behaviour in the conversation.
*By the way, red mist drivers, I notice that somehow you’re allowed to barge your way past me, but the moment I pass you when you get stuck, it becomes a matter to be avenged – how does that work, exactly?